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Explosions in Manchester? (5 Viewers)

sporthenry said:
You're arguing for a Minority Report like structure. And I know you think it's a great idea and that it could save lives but it would also ruin lives. We as a society, have chosen the innocent until proven guilty model.  Feel free to practice a guilty until innocent model somewhere else. 
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Explain how people who download child porn can be arrested but people who download terror training videos and visit terror camps can not then. 

 
sporthenry said:
You're arguing for a Minority Report like structure. And I know you think it's a great idea and that it could save lives but it would also ruin lives. We as a society, have chosen the innocent until proven guilty model.  Feel free to practice a guilty until innocent model somewhere else. 
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nice try...I'm quite sure the lives of the victims and their families were ruined

 
Ditka Butkus said:
nice try...I'm quite sure the lives of the victims and their families were ruined
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Yes they were. Nobody is denying that. But nice try on the strawman. If you want to rework our justice system, good luck. Why stop at profiling terrorists though?  

Also, think the FBI has 1million plus names on its watch list. You gonna lock them all up and vet them?

 
squistion said:
What rights? Being the expert on UK law, please enlighten us. Also, on what grounds they could have been arrested for, prior to the event?
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Conspiring and planning an act of terrorism. They have stopped attacks before by catching them during the planning process.

 
sporthenry said:
Yes they were. Nobody is denying that. But nice try on the strawman. If you want to rework our justice system, good luck. Why stop at profiling terrorists though?  

Also, think the FBI has 1million plus names on its watch list. You gonna lock them all up and vet them?
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They are already profiled, how do you think they get put on the watch list....

 
shadyridr said:
Explain how people who download child porn can be arrested but people who download terror training videos and visit terror camps can not then. 
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Well one is a crime and the other isn't.  I think people who visit terror camps should probably be locked up or refused reentry. But that's not what's really being argued here. People want to give up their, well really other people's basic rights.  

 
sporthenry said:
Well one is a crime and the other isn't.  I think people who visit terror camps should probably be locked up or refused reentry. But that's not what's really being argued here. People want to give up their, well really other people's basic rights.  
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 They both should be crimes

 
shadyridr said:
 They both should be crimes
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Well I don't know enough about watching terrorist propaganda. I imagine not everyone who watches it is a terrorist. Imagine some innocent Americans watch out of curiosity?  I'm for tracking who watches those things. But I'm also not sure what that would have done here?  My understanding is they don't know if he went to Syria?  So they would have missed that anyways. Not to mention, most of these guys are using encrypted messages as they get more sophisticated. So it doesn't seem as easy as he watched a video, lock him up. 

 
sporthenry said:
Well I don't know enough about watching terrorist propaganda. I imagine not everyone who watches it is a terrorist. Imagine some innocent Americans watch out of curiosity?  I'm for tracking who watches those things. But I'm also not sure what that would have done here?  My understanding is they don't know if he went to Syria?  So they would have missed that anyways. Not to mention, most of these guys are using encrypted messages as they get more sophisticated. So it doesn't seem as easy as he watched a video, lock him up. 
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He was in a terrorist watch list for a reason, no?

 
sporthenry said:
Well one is a crime and the other isn't.  I think people who visit terror camps should probably be locked up or refused reentry. But that's not what's really being argued here. People want to give up their, well really other people's basic rights.  
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When did it become a basic right to seek out to commit terror?..In our own country you can be arrested if you tell someone to kill themselves and they actually do.....but its ok to be connected with a group of people who actually kill people and we will just keep an eye on you. We can't bring you in for questioning because you have basic rights..

 
Ditka Butkus said:
I don't know what rights, but apparently they do because that is what I am continually told. Look back through the thread if you don't believe me. Once they are put on the terror watch list they should be detained and vetted thoroughly. Now they are allowed to be on the watch list and kill people.
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Translation: I have no idea what I am talking about and am making it up as I go along.

 
shadyridr said:
Explain how people who download child porn can be arrested but people who download terror training videos and visit terror camps can not then. 
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Because possessing child porn is against the law and possessing terror training videos and visiting terror camps is not. And before you ask, possessing child porn is illegal because the crime (sexual abuse of a child) has already been committed while training is just that--training.

 
shadyridr said:
According to some in here they are both innocent
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Yes, according to some, like the guys who wrote the Constitution.

In the United States, a person is considered innocent until proven guilty. The 14th amendment to the US Constitution guarantees to every person, aliens included, “equal protection under the law.”

 
squistion said:
Yes, according to some, like the guys who wrote the Constitution.

In the United States, a person is considered innocent until proven guilty. The 14th amendment to the US Constitution guarantees to every person, aliens included, “equal protection under the law.”
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Newsflash: you can still be held in prison until you are proven guilty

 
Ditka Butkus said:
They are already profiled, how do you think they get put on the watch list....
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Because of what they might have said, who they might have been in contact with, where they might have travelled. But that is still one step removed from actually starting to plan and prepare for an act of terror.

 
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Toe Cutter said:
Christo said:
Did they know these guys were actually planning a specific act of terrorism?
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No one knows.
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The British authorities would know whether the British authorities knew these guys were actually planning a specific act of terrorism. I have faith that if they did have proof they would have done something about it. So the only conclusion is that they didn't have proof.

 
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it`s insane to me that we have to play by the rules while terrorists dont play by any rules...i bet that POV might change if it was your kid who was blown up at a concert ...and if it wasnt changed than shame on you...i would consider you as dumb as the buffalo in the movie ''Bless the beasts and the children''

 
Christo said:
Well, that's the stupidest thing you've written in here so far.
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If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem....We have seen laws in regards to terrorist evolve...I'm fairly sure you will see them continue to evolve (thankfully so) to the detriment of terrorism.

 
Christo said:
The British authorities would known whether the British authorities knew these guys were actually planning a specific act of terrorism. I have faith that if they did have proof they would have done something about it. So the only conclusion is that they didn't have proof.
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Actually, no one knows what the authorities know about these guys at this point.

 
BustedKnuckles said:
it`s insane to me that we have to play by the rules while terrorists dont play by any rules...i bet that POV might change if it was your kid who was blown up at a concert ...and if it wasnt changed than shame on you...i would consider you as dumb as the buffalo in the movie ''Bless the beasts and the children''
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Some in here are pretty damn flippant, when its others loved ones.

 
Ditka Butkus said:
If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem....We have seen laws in regards to terrorist evolve...I'm fairly sure you will see them continue to evolve (thankfully so) to the detriment of terrorism.
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Bet you a dollar we never lock up everyone who ends up on a terrorist watchlist.

 
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