Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (2 Viewers)

[Carolina Hustler]

I think using the terms "approached", "concerned neighbor" and "adult" is why we're at loggerheads here.

Angry idiot in pursuit with a gun and his mind made up is more in line with the facts, as we know them. Zimmerman has done nothing to show he is an adult in the aftermath.

Potayto, patahto.

During the confrontation, the bolded is the only thing we're certain of, the rest is speculation..

Zimmerman was an idiot before the killing and remains one, he was angry on the 911 call and wasn't exactly chipper following The killing (unless you believe getting beat up by a kid he outweighed by 40lbs would put a smile on his face), and he did in fact pursue Martin. None of that is speculation. Saying he was getting roughed up enough to legitimately fear for his life would be speculation on your part. But I'll call it BS. He just doesn't seem credible, nor reasonable.

I can't believe people still doubt the fact that Martin was on top of Zimmerman beating his ###. Hasn't this been confirmed by multiple eyewitness accounts?Somebody punches you in the nose and knocks you down is one thing but if they jump on top of you and continue pounding it is perfectly reasonable for someone to be in fear for his life IMO.

come on man, Zimmerman knew it was kid

And yet he was getting his ### handed to him. I know some 17 year olds I wouldn't want to tangle with (especially being old and out of shape).

A lot of people think they are tough until they get hit.

And your point?Young athletes usually have more of a superman complex than out of shape adults..

Thats debatable at best given Zimmers history, his cop syndrome and his penchant for carrying a loaded weapon.

It's as reasonable of a statement as "a lot of people think they're tough until they get hit"

 

[mad sweeney]

I think using the terms "approached", "concerned neighbor" and "adult" is why we're at loggerheads here.

Angry idiot in pursuit with a gun and his mind made up is more in line with the facts, as we know them. Zimmerman has done nothing to show he is an adult in the aftermath.

Potayto, patahto.

During the confrontation, the bolded is the only thing we're certain of, the rest is speculation..

Zimmerman was an idiot before the killing and remains one, he was angry on the 911 call and wasn't exactly chipper following The killing (unless you believe getting beat up by a kid he outweighed by 40lbs would put a smile on his face), and he did in fact pursue Martin. None of that is speculation. Saying he was getting roughed up enough to legitimately fear for his life would be speculation on your part. But I'll call it BS. He just doesn't seem credible, nor reasonable.

I can't believe people still doubt the fact that Martin was on top of Zimmerman beating his ###. Hasn't this been confirmed by multiple eyewitness accounts?Somebody punches you in the nose and knocks you down is one thing but if they jump on top of you and continue pounding it is perfectly reasonable for someone to be in fear for his life IMO.

come on man, Zimmerman knew it was kid

And yet he was getting his ### handed to him. I know some 17 year olds I wouldn't want to tangle with (especially being old and out of shape).

A lot of people think they are tough until they get hit.

And your point?Young athletes usually have more of a superman complex than out of shape adults..

I think it's fairly well been shown that Z had a decent enough Superman complex, especially since he went about armed doing a job in which the professional organization he was emulating advocates NOT being armed.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I think using the terms "approached", "concerned neighbor" and "adult" is why we're at loggerheads here.

Angry idiot in pursuit with a gun and his mind made up is more in line with the facts, as we know them. Zimmerman has done nothing to show he is an adult in the aftermath.

Potayto, patahto.

During the confrontation, the bolded is the only thing we're certain of, the rest is speculation..

Zimmerman was an idiot before the killing and remains one, he was angry on the 911 call and wasn't exactly chipper following The killing (unless you believe getting beat up by a kid he outweighed by 40lbs would put a smile on his face), and he did in fact pursue Martin. None of that is speculation. Saying he was getting roughed up enough to legitimately fear for his life would be speculation on your part. But I'll call it BS. He just doesn't seem credible, nor reasonable.

I can't believe people still doubt the fact that Martin was on top of Zimmerman beating his ###. Hasn't this been confirmed by multiple eyewitness accounts?Somebody punches you in the nose and knocks you down is one thing but if they jump on top of you and continue pounding it is perfectly reasonable for someone to be in fear for his life IMO.

come on man, Zimmerman knew it was kid

And yet he was getting his ### handed to him. I know some 17 year olds I wouldn't want to tangle with (especially being old and out of shape).

A lot of people think they are tough until they get hit.

And your point?Young athletes usually have more of a superman complex than out of shape adults..

I think it's fairly well been shown that Z had a decent enough Superman complex, especially since he went about armed doing a job in which the professional organization he was emulating advocates NOT being armed.

I think it's already been established that the neighborhood watch criteria in his area did not addressed the carrying of firearms..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I think using the terms "approached", "concerned neighbor" and "adult" is why we're at loggerheads here.

Angry idiot in pursuit with a gun and his mind made up is more in line with the facts, as we know them. Zimmerman has done nothing to show he is an adult in the aftermath.

Potayto, patahto.

During the confrontation, the bolded is the only thing we're certain of, the rest is speculation..

Zimmerman was an idiot before the killing and remains one, he was angry on the 911 call and wasn't exactly chipper following The killing (unless you believe getting beat up by a kid he outweighed by 40lbs would put a smile on his face), and he did in fact pursue Martin. None of that is speculation. Saying he was getting roughed up enough to legitimately fear for his life would be speculation on your part. But I'll call it BS. He just doesn't seem credible, nor reasonable.

I can't believe people still doubt the fact that Martin was on top of Zimmerman beating his ###. Hasn't this been confirmed by multiple eyewitness accounts?Somebody punches you in the nose and knocks you down is one thing but if they jump on top of you and continue pounding it is perfectly reasonable for someone to be in fear for his life IMO.

And if someone is following you to the point where you fear for your life and try to subdue them, it's perfectly reasonable to make sure the guy is knocked out so he can't reach for a weapon, like a gun.

How'd that reasoning work out in this case.. Doesn't seem so smart and reasonable to me..And there still is no proof that Zimmerman was following Trayvon to the point Trayvon was in fear for his life.

If Zimmerman chased Trayvon down and tried to detain him, and Trayvon then punched him, knocked him down, and then was holding him down thinking someone was coming to help, or to call the police for him.. That would be a legitimate reason for Trayvon to be on top.. Problem is, no one is here to testify on that scenario.. The Prosecution has criteria they have to meet. I think they're going to have a hard time meeting it..

Well, there's no proof Z was in fear for his life either other than the word of a man with several past incidents of violence and who has shown his willingness to decieve the authorities for his own protection. And when you get down to fear for your life, smart and reasonable go out the window. That's why it's called fear.As for holding him down, like I said, if TM feared for his life from this stalker, I think it's eminently reasonable to keep pounding til the follower is unconscious.

As has already been established, numerous times.. Zimmerman doesn't have to prove he was in fear for his life, he only has to make that declaration and show a basis for that fear.. The prosecution has criteria they must meet in order to secure a guilty verdict or Murder2..And it's already been established that zimmerman didn't lie, but his wife did, so that has no bearing on his case in court. If his wife was on trial, then you'd have a point..

 

[mad sweeney]

I think using the terms "approached", "concerned neighbor" and "adult" is why we're at loggerheads here.

Angry idiot in pursuit with a gun and his mind made up is more in line with the facts, as we know them. Zimmerman has done nothing to show he is an adult in the aftermath.

Potayto, patahto.

During the confrontation, the bolded is the only thing we're certain of, the rest is speculation..

Zimmerman was an idiot before the killing and remains one, he was angry on the 911 call and wasn't exactly chipper following The killing (unless you believe getting beat up by a kid he outweighed by 40lbs would put a smile on his face), and he did in fact pursue Martin. None of that is speculation. Saying he was getting roughed up enough to legitimately fear for his life would be speculation on your part. But I'll call it BS. He just doesn't seem credible, nor reasonable.

I can't believe people still doubt the fact that Martin was on top of Zimmerman beating his ###. Hasn't this been confirmed by multiple eyewitness accounts?Somebody punches you in the nose and knocks you down is one thing but if they jump on top of you and continue pounding it is perfectly reasonable for someone to be in fear for his life IMO.

come on man, Zimmerman knew it was kid

And yet he was getting his ### handed to him. I know some 17 year olds I wouldn't want to tangle with (especially being old and out of shape).

A lot of people think they are tough until they get hit.

And your point?Young athletes usually have more of a superman complex than out of shape adults..

I think it's fairly well been shown that Z had a decent enough Superman complex, especially since he went about armed doing a job in which the professional organization he was emulating advocates NOT being armed.

I think it's already been established that the neighborhood watch criteria in his area did not addressed the carrying of firearms..

And that affects Z's superman complex how? Oh yeah, it embiggens it.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

It's possible that they both misunderstood the situation isn't it?

Zimmerman thought Trayvon was attacking him because he was a vicious criminal and Trayvon thought Zimmerman was a pedophile, or a kkk member or some shiz..

Then when the confrontation starts, neither of them know the others intent, and both are in fear, making it legal for either of them to use deadly force..

The potential for Trayvon being afraid doesn't exclude Zimmerman from also being afraid..

 

[mad sweeney]

I think using the terms "approached", "concerned neighbor" and "adult" is why we're at loggerheads here.

Angry idiot in pursuit with a gun and his mind made up is more in line with the facts, as we know them. Zimmerman has done nothing to show he is an adult in the aftermath.

Potayto, patahto.

During the confrontation, the bolded is the only thing we're certain of, the rest is speculation..

Zimmerman was an idiot before the killing and remains one, he was angry on the 911 call and wasn't exactly chipper following The killing (unless you believe getting beat up by a kid he outweighed by 40lbs would put a smile on his face), and he did in fact pursue Martin. None of that is speculation. Saying he was getting roughed up enough to legitimately fear for his life would be speculation on your part. But I'll call it BS. He just doesn't seem credible, nor reasonable.

I can't believe people still doubt the fact that Martin was on top of Zimmerman beating his ###. Hasn't this been confirmed by multiple eyewitness accounts?Somebody punches you in the nose and knocks you down is one thing but if they jump on top of you and continue pounding it is perfectly reasonable for someone to be in fear for his life IMO.

And if someone is following you to the point where you fear for your life and try to subdue them, it's perfectly reasonable to make sure the guy is knocked out so he can't reach for a weapon, like a gun.

How'd that reasoning work out in this case.. Doesn't seem so smart and reasonable to me..And there still is no proof that Zimmerman was following Trayvon to the point Trayvon was in fear for his life.

If Zimmerman chased Trayvon down and tried to detain him, and Trayvon then punched him, knocked him down, and then was holding him down thinking someone was coming to help, or to call the police for him.. That would be a legitimate reason for Trayvon to be on top.. Problem is, no one is here to testify on that scenario.. The Prosecution has criteria they have to meet. I think they're going to have a hard time meeting it..

Well, there's no proof Z was in fear for his life either other than the word of a man with several past incidents of violence and who has shown his willingness to decieve the authorities for his own protection. And when you get down to fear for your life, smart and reasonable go out the window. That's why it's called fear.As for holding him down, like I said, if TM feared for his life from this stalker, I think it's eminently reasonable to keep pounding til the follower is unconscious.

As has already been established, numerous times.. Zimmerman doesn't have to prove he was in fear for his life, he only has to make that declaration and show a basis for that fear.. The prosecution has criteria they must meet in order to secure a guilty verdict or Murder2..And it's already been established that zimmerman didn't lie, but his wife did, so that has no bearing on his case in court. If his wife was on trial, then you'd have a point..

No, he was willingly involved in deceiving the court. Unless you think he was speaking in code about his ther passport as part of a game he plays with his wife all the time. I'm not talking about perjury charges, just the fact that he deceived the court. Even you have to admit* that he was willingly involved in deceiving the court.* not that anyone actually expects you to do so.

 

[TexanFan02]

I think it's already been established that the neighborhood watch criteria in his area did not addressed the carrying of firearms..

And that affects Z's superman complex how? Oh yeah, it embiggens it.

Actually, he's wrong. Not only do neighborhood watch criteria say not to carry a gun, a Police officer who Zimmerman invited to speak about neighborhood watch activities said not to carry a gun. So there's that.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

And that affects Z's superman complex how? Oh yeah, it embiggens it.

Maybe it renders it limitless, likening it to that of the "No_limits_NiQQa"

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I think it's already been established that the neighborhood watch criteria in his area did not addressed the carrying of firearms..

And that affects Z's superman complex how? Oh yeah, it embiggens it.

Actually, he's wrong. Not only do neighborhood watch criteria say not to carry a gun, a Police officer who Zimmerman invited to speak about neighborhood watch activities said not to carry a gun. So there's that.

The neighborhood watch criteria for his town was posted and quoted several times in this thread, and it did not address firearms.. So, no, you're wrong.... Again..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I think using the terms "approached", "concerned neighbor" and "adult" is why we're at loggerheads here.

Angry idiot in pursuit with a gun and his mind made up is more in line with the facts, as we know them. Zimmerman has done nothing to show he is an adult in the aftermath.

Potayto, patahto.

During the confrontation, the bolded is the only thing we're certain of, the rest is speculation..

Zimmerman was an idiot before the killing and remains one, he was angry on the 911 call and wasn't exactly chipper following The killing (unless you believe getting beat up by a kid he outweighed by 40lbs would put a smile on his face), and he did in fact pursue Martin. None of that is speculation. Saying he was getting roughed up enough to legitimately fear for his life would be speculation on your part. But I'll call it BS. He just doesn't seem credible, nor reasonable.

I can't believe people still doubt the fact that Martin was on top of Zimmerman beating his ###. Hasn't this been confirmed by multiple eyewitness accounts?Somebody punches you in the nose and knocks you down is one thing but if they jump on top of you and continue pounding it is perfectly reasonable for someone to be in fear for his life IMO.

And if someone is following you to the point where you fear for your life and try to subdue them, it's perfectly reasonable to make sure the guy is knocked out so he can't reach for a weapon, like a gun.

How'd that reasoning work out in this case.. Doesn't seem so smart and reasonable to me..And there still is no proof that Zimmerman was following Trayvon to the point Trayvon was in fear for his life.

If Zimmerman chased Trayvon down and tried to detain him, and Trayvon then punched him, knocked him down, and then was holding him down thinking someone was coming to help, or to call the police for him.. That would be a legitimate reason for Trayvon to be on top.. Problem is, no one is here to testify on that scenario.. The Prosecution has criteria they have to meet. I think they're going to have a hard time meeting it..

Well, there's no proof Z was in fear for his life either other than the word of a man with several past incidents of violence and who has shown his willingness to decieve the authorities for his own protection. And when you get down to fear for your life, smart and reasonable go out the window. That's why it's called fear.As for holding him down, like I said, if TM feared for his life from this stalker, I think it's eminently reasonable to keep pounding til the follower is unconscious.

As has already been established, numerous times.. Zimmerman doesn't have to prove he was in fear for his life, he only has to make that declaration and show a basis for that fear.. The prosecution has criteria they must meet in order to secure a guilty verdict or Murder2..And it's already been established that zimmerman didn't lie, but his wife did, so that has no bearing on his case in court. If his wife was on trial, then you'd have a point..

No, he was willingly involved in deceiving the court. Unless you think he was speaking in code about his ther passport as part of a game he plays with his wife all the time. I'm not talking about perjury charges, just the fact that he deceived the court. Even you have to admit* that he was willingly involved in deceiving the court.* not that anyone actually expects you to do so.

It has already been established that the passport had been turned in to his attorney after the bond hearing. The attorney forgot to turn it into the court.Seems he knew his wife's testimony was incorrect.. Not sure if that was by design or not.. But I'm sure his lawyer told him what to say in court and what not to say... He was never asked to address his financial situation, so he can't be charged with giving false testimony..

The court revoked the bond because the information used as basis for the previous bond was not factual. Zimmerman had an opportunity to make factual information available to the court and didn't, thus making it an invalid bond decision to begin with.. Any decision the court makes on incorrect information should be reversed regardless of the intent..

 

[TexanFan02]

Looks like Zimmerman is bulking up again:

Fatty

George Zimmerman has stocked his 67-square-foot cell with a pantry-full of snack food, plus pens, postal cards, toiletries and underwear, according to an inventory obtained by NBC News.

Zimmerman placed the order Tuesday through the jailhouse commissary during his second full day back in custody at the John E. Polk Correctional Facility in Sanford, Fla.

The order came to a total of $98.90. His remaining balance is $395.10.

Snacks included, among other food, two orders of White Cheddar Cheez-Its, two orders of Fritos, two orders of Cheetos, four orders of Big Grandma’s chocolate chip cookies, one order of Animal Snackers cookies, two packages of Twix, one package of Peanut M&M’s, and five packages of Strawberry Pop-Tarts.

 

[Zow]

It is clear from court and public records that George Zimmerman has sometimes been less than truthful.

After shooting Trayvon Martin in late February, he told Sanford police he didn't have a criminal history. He did. Several weeks later, he told the Seminole County Sheriff's Office he had never been in a pretrial-diversion program. That's also untrue.

He contradicted himself on the witness stand in April, telling Trayvon's family during an apology that he had thought their son was close to his age. On the night of the shooting, Zimmerman, 28, described the 17-year-old to police as in his "late teens."

And now Zimmerman is back in jail because he sat silently as his wife, Shellie, testified — under oath — at his bond hearing in April that the couple were, essentially, flat broke. At the time, they had access to about $135,000, funds raised through a website he launched after he shot Trayvon.

Orlando Sentinel

So what we've got here is a number of lies by Zimmerman. Not just one, but several. Can ANY of this be used at trial to challenge his credibility on the witness stand?

The actual answer is: It depends. On several things. Christo is betting on it not happening, but it could.

What are the several things it depends on?

Whether Zimmerman takes the stand, whether O'Mara gets it excluded for any number of other things. If Zimmerman doesn't take the stand it probably doesn't come up. But he's a nutjob, he will.

It still likely won't come up. None of that stuff is relevant. In order for a previous statement to be used to attack one's credibility, the declarant has to first say something different at trial.

I would imagine the Prosecutors will try to work it in somehow. Probably won't work, but they'll try.

Their admittance should be litigated before trial even starts. If they're kept out the prosecutor won't try because doing so could result in a mistrial and sanctions.

So you're saying there's a chance? That's all I was saying. Christo is saying there's no chance.

To the extent that there's a chance it may snow in Phoenix today, I am.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Looks like Zimmerman is bulking up again:

Fatty

George Zimmerman has stocked his 67-square-foot cell with a pantry-full of snack food, plus pens, postal cards, toiletries and underwear, according to an inventory obtained by NBC News.

Zimmerman placed the order Tuesday through the jailhouse commissary during his second full day back in custody at the John E. Polk Correctional Facility in Sanford, Fla.

The order came to a total of $98.90. His remaining balance is $395.10.

Snacks included, among other food, two orders of White Cheddar Cheez-Its, two orders of Fritos, two orders of Cheetos, four orders of Big Grandma’s chocolate chip cookies, one order of Animal Snackers cookies, two packages of Twix, one package of Peanut M&M’s, and five packages of Strawberry Pop-Tarts.

Pretty common for inmates to purchase snack food from the commissary. Nothing atypical here..

 

[TexanFan02]

I would imagine the Prosecutors will try to work it in somehow. Probably won't work, but they'll try.

Their admittance should be litigated before trial even starts. If they're kept out the prosecutor won't try because doing so could result in a mistrial and sanctions.

So you're saying there's a chance? That's all I was saying. Christo is saying there's no chance.

To the extent that there's a chance it may snow in Phoenix today, I am.

That's not consistent with your prior statement.

 

[timschochet]

It will probably be kept out of trial, and that actually seems reasonable to me. But for the purposes of this discussion, Zimmerman has proved himself a knowing liar. The jury won't discover, based on this, how dishonest this ******* is. But WE know it. And therefore it is unfathomable to me how anyone here can take Zimmerman's tale of what happened and believe it's the truth.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

It will probably be kept out of trial, and that actually seems reasonable to me. But for the purposes of this discussion, Zimmerman has proved himself a knowing liar. The jury won't discover, based on this, how dishonest this ******* is. But WE know it. And therefore it is unfathomable to me how anyone here can take Zimmerman's tale of what happened and believe it's the truth.

All people lie.. You've lied..That doesn't mean he's guilty or that he wasn't defending himself..

 

[jonessed]

It will probably be kept out of trial, and that actually seems reasonable to me. But for the purposes of this discussion, Zimmerman has proved himself a knowing liar. The jury won't discover, based on this, how dishonest this ******* is. But WE know it. And therefore it is unfathomable to me how anyone here can take Zimmerman's tale of what happened and believe it's the truth.

This coming from a guy who plagiarizes .

 

[kentric]

I think using the terms "approached", "concerned neighbor" and "adult" is why we're at loggerheads here.

Angry idiot in pursuit with a gun and his mind made up is more in line with the facts, as we know them. Zimmerman has done nothing to show he is an adult in the aftermath.

Potayto, patahto.

During the confrontation, the bolded is the only thing we're certain of, the rest is speculation..

Zimmerman was an idiot before the killing and remains one, he was angry on the 911 call and wasn't exactly chipper following The killing (unless you believe getting beat up by a kid he outweighed by 40lbs would put a smile on his face), and he did in fact pursue Martin. None of that is speculation. Saying he was getting roughed up enough to legitimately fear for his life would be speculation on your part. But I'll call it BS. He just doesn't seem credible, nor reasonable.

I can't believe people still doubt the fact that Martin was on top of Zimmerman beating his ###. Hasn't this been confirmed by multiple eyewitness accounts?Somebody punches you in the nose and knocks you down is one thing but if they jump on top of you and continue pounding it is perfectly reasonable for someone to be in fear for his life IMO.

And if someone is following you to the point where you fear for your life and try to subdue them, it's perfectly reasonable to make sure the guy is knocked out so he can't reach for a weapon, like a gun.

How'd that reasoning work out in this case.. Doesn't seem so smart and reasonable to me..And there still is no proof that Zimmerman was following Trayvon to the point Trayvon was in fear for his life.

If Zimmerman chased Trayvon down and tried to detain him, and Trayvon then punched him, knocked him down, and then was holding him down thinking someone was coming to help, or to call the police for him.. That would be a legitimate reason for Trayvon to be on top.. Problem is, no one is here to testify on that scenario.. The Prosecution has criteria they have to meet. I think they're going to have a hard time meeting it..

Well, there's no proof Z was in fear for his life either other than the word of a man with several past incidents of violence and who has shown his willingness to decieve the authorities for his own protection. And when you get down to fear for your life, smart and reasonable go out the window. That's why it's called fear.As for holding him down, like I said, if TM feared for his life from this stalker, I think it's eminently reasonable to keep pounding til the follower is unconscious.

So it's reasonable for someone to beat a "stalker" unconscious but its not reasonable for someone to fear their life after being beaten up and having their head pounded on the ground?

 

[TexanFan02]

I think using the terms "approached", "concerned neighbor" and "adult" is why we're at loggerheads here.

Angry idiot in pursuit with a gun and his mind made up is more in line with the facts, as we know them. Zimmerman has done nothing to show he is an adult in the aftermath.

Potayto, patahto.

During the confrontation, the bolded is the only thing we're certain of, the rest is speculation..

Zimmerman was an idiot before the killing and remains one, he was angry on the 911 call and wasn't exactly chipper following The killing (unless you believe getting beat up by a kid he outweighed by 40lbs would put a smile on his face), and he did in fact pursue Martin. None of that is speculation. Saying he was getting roughed up enough to legitimately fear for his life would be speculation on your part. But I'll call it BS. He just doesn't seem credible, nor reasonable.

I can't believe people still doubt the fact that Martin was on top of Zimmerman beating his ###. Hasn't this been confirmed by multiple eyewitness accounts?Somebody punches you in the nose and knocks you down is one thing but if they jump on top of you and continue pounding it is perfectly reasonable for someone to be in fear for his life IMO.

And if someone is following you to the point where you fear for your life and try to subdue them, it's perfectly reasonable to make sure the guy is knocked out so he can't reach for a weapon, like a gun.

How'd that reasoning work out in this case.. Doesn't seem so smart and reasonable to me..And there still is no proof that Zimmerman was following Trayvon to the point Trayvon was in fear for his life.

If Zimmerman chased Trayvon down and tried to detain him, and Trayvon then punched him, knocked him down, and then was holding him down thinking someone was coming to help, or to call the police for him.. That would be a legitimate reason for Trayvon to be on top.. Problem is, no one is here to testify on that scenario.. The Prosecution has criteria they have to meet. I think they're going to have a hard time meeting it..

Well, there's no proof Z was in fear for his life either other than the word of a man with several past incidents of violence and who has shown his willingness to decieve the authorities for his own protection. And when you get down to fear for your life, smart and reasonable go out the window. That's why it's called fear.As for holding him down, like I said, if TM feared for his life from this stalker, I think it's eminently reasonable to keep pounding til the follower is unconscious.

So it's reasonable for someone to beat a "stalker" unconscious but its not reasonable for someone to fear their life after being beaten up and having their head pounded on the ground?

If you can kill someone for being in fear of your life, it's not unreasonable to think that incapacitating someone because you're in fear for your life is acceptable.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I think using the terms "approached", "concerned neighbor" and "adult" is why we're at loggerheads here.

Angry idiot in pursuit with a gun and his mind made up is more in line with the facts, as we know them. Zimmerman has done nothing to show he is an adult in the aftermath.

Potayto, patahto.

During the confrontation, the bolded is the only thing we're certain of, the rest is speculation..

Zimmerman was an idiot before the killing and remains one, he was angry on the 911 call and wasn't exactly chipper following The killing (unless you believe getting beat up by a kid he outweighed by 40lbs would put a smile on his face), and he did in fact pursue Martin. None of that is speculation. Saying he was getting roughed up enough to legitimately fear for his life would be speculation on your part. But I'll call it BS. He just doesn't seem credible, nor reasonable.

I can't believe people still doubt the fact that Martin was on top of Zimmerman beating his ###. Hasn't this been confirmed by multiple eyewitness accounts?Somebody punches you in the nose and knocks you down is one thing but if they jump on top of you and continue pounding it is perfectly reasonable for someone to be in fear for his life IMO.

And if someone is following you to the point where you fear for your life and try to subdue them, it's perfectly reasonable to make sure the guy is knocked out so he can't reach for a weapon, like a gun.

How'd that reasoning work out in this case.. Doesn't seem so smart and reasonable to me..And there still is no proof that Zimmerman was following Trayvon to the point Trayvon was in fear for his life.

If Zimmerman chased Trayvon down and tried to detain him, and Trayvon then punched him, knocked him down, and then was holding him down thinking someone was coming to help, or to call the police for him.. That would be a legitimate reason for Trayvon to be on top.. Problem is, no one is here to testify on that scenario.. The Prosecution has criteria they have to meet. I think they're going to have a hard time meeting it..

Well, there's no proof Z was in fear for his life either other than the word of a man with several past incidents of violence and who has shown his willingness to decieve the authorities for his own protection. And when you get down to fear for your life, smart and reasonable go out the window. That's why it's called fear.As for holding him down, like I said, if TM feared for his life from this stalker, I think it's eminently reasonable to keep pounding til the follower is unconscious.

So it's reasonable for someone to beat a "stalker" unconscious but its not reasonable for someone to fear their life after being beaten up and having their head pounded on the ground?

If you can kill someone for being in fear of your life, it's not unreasonable to think that incapacitating someone because you're in fear for your life is acceptable.

So for argument sake, lets say Trayvon was in fear for his life.. Then what? That excludes Zimmerman from also being afraid? Couldn't they both have been afraid? Giving them both the right to use lethal force.

 

[timschochet]

It will probably be kept out of trial, and that actually seems reasonable to me. But for the purposes of this discussion, Zimmerman has proved himself a knowing liar. The jury won't discover, based on this, how dishonest this ******* is. But WE know it. And therefore it is unfathomable to me how anyone here can take Zimmerman's tale of what happened and believe it's the truth.

This coming from a guy who plagiarizes .

Ive never plagiarized anything in my life.

 

[pittstownkiller]

It will probably be kept out of trial, and that actually seems reasonable to me. But for the purposes of this discussion, Zimmerman has proved himself a knowing liar. The jury won't discover, based on this, how dishonest this ******* is. But WE know it. And therefore it is unfathomable to me how anyone here can take Zimmerman's tale of what happened and believe it's the truth.

This coming from a guy who plagiarizes .

Ive never plagiarized anything in my life.

I've read this somewhere before.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Serious question. How many people in this thread would do what zimmerman did that night? Get out of your car and follow some kid in a housing community for no real reason. The kid isnt breaking into cars or houses. Hes just walking.

I wouldnt.

 

[Christo]

Identical.

Synonymous.

Mislead: : to lead in a wrong direction or into a mistaken action or belief often by deliberate deceit

Lie: : to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive. to create a false or misleading impression.

per·ju·ry [pur-juh-ree] noun, plural per·ju·ries. Law .The willful giving of false testimony under oath

When did he testify on his finances? I missed that part..

He certainly did, with his lawyer, about his Passport (and potentially on his finances)...http://www.scribd.com/doc/95589216/Prosecutors-motion-to-revoke-George-Zimmerman-s-bond

Furthermore he continued the deceit on record via the phone calls in prison.

 

[Neofight]

It will probably be kept out of trial, and that actually seems reasonable to me. But for the purposes of this discussion, Zimmerman has proved himself a knowing liar. The jury won't discover, based on this, how dishonest this ******* is. But WE know it. And therefore it is unfathomable to me how anyone here can take Zimmerman's tale of what happened and believe it's the truth.

I've always admired your flare [sic] for the dramatic Timmy.

 

[TexanFan02]

Identical.

Synonymous.

Mislead: : to lead in a wrong direction or into a mistaken action or belief often by deliberate deceit

Lie: : to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive. to create a false or misleading impression.

per·ju·ry [pur-juh-ree] noun, plural per·ju·ries. Law .The willful giving of false testimony under oath

When did he testify on his finances? I missed that part..

He certainly did, with his lawyer, about his Passport (and potentially on his finances)...http://www.scribd.com/doc/95589216/Prosecutors-motion-to-revoke-George-Zimmerman-s-bond

Furthermore he continued the deceit on record via the phone calls in prison.

Still don't have an answer for that one, huh? You're becoming sad.

 

[timschochet]

It will probably be kept out of trial, and that actually seems reasonable to me. But for the purposes of this discussion, Zimmerman has proved himself a knowing liar. The jury won't discover, based on this, how dishonest this ******* is. But WE know it. And therefore it is unfathomable to me how anyone here can take Zimmerman's tale of what happened and believe it's the truth.

I've always admired your flare for the dramatic Timmy.

But it's true though. It's one thing to argue that Zimmerman will probably not be convicted because it's very difficult for the prosecution to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt. I think this is a reasonable argument whether one believes in it or not.But it's quite another thing to take Zimmerman's story of what happened that night and presume he's telling the truth. The only reason someone would do that is because they WANT to believe Zimmerman.

 

[Christo]

Identical.

Synonymous.

Mislead: : to lead in a wrong direction or into a mistaken action or belief often by deliberate deceit

Lie: : to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive. to create a false or misleading impression.

per·ju·ry [pur-juh-ree] noun, plural per·ju·ries. Law .The willful giving of false testimony under oath

When did he testify on his finances? I missed that part..

He certainly did, with his lawyer, about his Passport (and potentially on his finances)...http://www.scribd.com/doc/95589216/Prosecutors-motion-to-revoke-George-Zimmerman-s-bond

Furthermore he continued the deceit on record via the phone calls in prison.

Still don't have an answer for that one, huh? You're becoming sad.

 

[mad sweeney]

I think using the terms "approached", "concerned neighbor" and "adult" is why we're at loggerheads here.

Angry idiot in pursuit with a gun and his mind made up is more in line with the facts, as we know them. Zimmerman has done nothing to show he is an adult in the aftermath.

Potayto, patahto.

During the confrontation, the bolded is the only thing we're certain of, the rest is speculation..

Zimmerman was an idiot before the killing and remains one, he was angry on the 911 call and wasn't exactly chipper following The killing (unless you believe getting beat up by a kid he outweighed by 40lbs would put a smile on his face), and he did in fact pursue Martin. None of that is speculation. Saying he was getting roughed up enough to legitimately fear for his life would be speculation on your part. But I'll call it BS. He just doesn't seem credible, nor reasonable.

I can't believe people still doubt the fact that Martin was on top of Zimmerman beating his ###. Hasn't this been confirmed by multiple eyewitness accounts?Somebody punches you in the nose and knocks you down is one thing but if they jump on top of you and continue pounding it is perfectly reasonable for someone to be in fear for his life IMO.

And if someone is following you to the point where you fear for your life and try to subdue them, it's perfectly reasonable to make sure the guy is knocked out so he can't reach for a weapon, like a gun.

How'd that reasoning work out in this case.. Doesn't seem so smart and reasonable to me..And there still is no proof that Zimmerman was following Trayvon to the point Trayvon was in fear for his life.

If Zimmerman chased Trayvon down and tried to detain him, and Trayvon then punched him, knocked him down, and then was holding him down thinking someone was coming to help, or to call the police for him.. That would be a legitimate reason for Trayvon to be on top.. Problem is, no one is here to testify on that scenario.. The Prosecution has criteria they have to meet. I think they're going to have a hard time meeting it..

Well, there's no proof Z was in fear for his life either other than the word of a man with several past incidents of violence and who has shown his willingness to decieve the authorities for his own protection. And when you get down to fear for your life, smart and reasonable go out the window. That's why it's called fear.As for holding him down, like I said, if TM feared for his life from this stalker, I think it's eminently reasonable to keep pounding til the follower is unconscious.

As has already been established, numerous times.. Zimmerman doesn't have to prove he was in fear for his life, he only has to make that declaration and show a basis for that fear.. The prosecution has criteria they must meet in order to secure a guilty verdict or Murder2..And it's already been established that zimmerman didn't lie, but his wife did, so that has no bearing on his case in court. If his wife was on trial, then you'd have a point..

No, he was willingly involved in deceiving the court. Unless you think he was speaking in code about his ther passport as part of a game he plays with his wife all the time. I'm not talking about perjury charges, just the fact that he deceived the court. Even you have to admit* that he was willingly involved in deceiving the court.* not that anyone actually expects you to do so.

It has already been established that the passport had been turned in to his attorney after the bond hearing. The attorney forgot to turn it into the court.Seems he knew his wife's testimony was incorrect.. Not sure if that was by design or not.. But I'm sure his lawyer told him what to say in court and what not to say... He was never asked to address his financial situation, so he can't be charged with giving false testimony..

The court revoked the bond because the information used as basis for the previous bond was not factual. Zimmerman had an opportunity to make factual information available to the court and didn't, thus making it an invalid bond decision to begin with.. Any decision the court makes on incorrect information should be reversed regardless of the intent..

In other words, he willfully participated in deceiving the court. Thanks for agreeing with me.

 

[mad sweeney]

It will probably be kept out of trial, and that actually seems reasonable to me. But for the purposes of this discussion, Zimmerman has proved himself a knowing liar. The jury won't discover, based on this, how dishonest this ******* is. But WE know it. And therefore it is unfathomable to me how anyone here can take Zimmerman's tale of what happened and believe it's the truth.

All people lie.. You've lied..That doesn't mean he's guilty or that he wasn't defending himself..

No, but it casts doubt on his credibility and his defense pretty rests entirely on his credibility.

 

[culdeus]

What are you guys still doing in here? Has anything new really come out since the arrest?

 

[mad sweeney]

I think using the terms "approached", "concerned neighbor" and "adult" is why we're at loggerheads here.

Angry idiot in pursuit with a gun and his mind made up is more in line with the facts, as we know them. Zimmerman has done nothing to show he is an adult in the aftermath.

Potayto, patahto.

During the confrontation, the bolded is the only thing we're certain of, the rest is speculation..

Zimmerman was an idiot before the killing and remains one, he was angry on the 911 call and wasn't exactly chipper following The killing (unless you believe getting beat up by a kid he outweighed by 40lbs would put a smile on his face), and he did in fact pursue Martin. None of that is speculation. Saying he was getting roughed up enough to legitimately fear for his life would be speculation on your part. But I'll call it BS. He just doesn't seem credible, nor reasonable.

I can't believe people still doubt the fact that Martin was on top of Zimmerman beating his ###. Hasn't this been confirmed by multiple eyewitness accounts?Somebody punches you in the nose and knocks you down is one thing but if they jump on top of you and continue pounding it is perfectly reasonable for someone to be in fear for his life IMO.

And if someone is following you to the point where you fear for your life and try to subdue them, it's perfectly reasonable to make sure the guy is knocked out so he can't reach for a weapon, like a gun.

How'd that reasoning work out in this case.. Doesn't seem so smart and reasonable to me..And there still is no proof that Zimmerman was following Trayvon to the point Trayvon was in fear for his life.

If Zimmerman chased Trayvon down and tried to detain him, and Trayvon then punched him, knocked him down, and then was holding him down thinking someone was coming to help, or to call the police for him.. That would be a legitimate reason for Trayvon to be on top.. Problem is, no one is here to testify on that scenario.. The Prosecution has criteria they have to meet. I think they're going to have a hard time meeting it..

Well, there's no proof Z was in fear for his life either other than the word of a man with several past incidents of violence and who has shown his willingness to decieve the authorities for his own protection. And when you get down to fear for your life, smart and reasonable go out the window. That's why it's called fear.As for holding him down, like I said, if TM feared for his life from this stalker, I think it's eminently reasonable to keep pounding til the follower is unconscious.

So it's reasonable for someone to beat a "stalker" unconscious but its not reasonable for someone to fear their life after being beaten up and having their head pounded on the ground?

I've never said that. But if Zimmerman got himself into a position to get his ### beat by being overzealous (a very, very proveable position) and overconfident (because he was packing), then it's entirely his fault that someone is dead. You don't get to scare someone into protecting themself and then kill them because they're winning.

 

[timschochet]

In other words, he willfully participated in deceiving the court

It seems to me that there should be some punishment for this, even if Christo is correct that we can't call it perjury.

For instance, why have another bond trial? Why should this guy be allowed to plead his case for not being in jail again after he deceived the court the first time? The judge should just cancel the new bond trial, and fine the attorney as well.

 

[Christo]

What are you guys still doing in here? Has anything new really come out since the arrest?

He likes snacks.

 

[timschochet]

What are you guys still doing in here? Has anything new really come out since the arrest?

We're making fun of Carolina Hustler.

 

[mad sweeney]

Serious question. How many people in this thread would do what zimmerman did that night? Get out of your car and follow some kid in a housing community for no real reason. The kid isnt breaking into cars or houses. Hes just walking.

I wouldnt.

Dude, he smoked pot. POT!!! He's a menace, a certain future felon. We're better off without him. {Hustler}

 

[Christo]

I think using the terms "approached", "concerned neighbor" and "adult" is why we're at loggerheads here.

Angry idiot in pursuit with a gun and his mind made up is more in line with the facts, as we know them. Zimmerman has done nothing to show he is an adult in the aftermath.

Potayto, patahto.

During the confrontation, the bolded is the only thing we're certain of, the rest is speculation..

Zimmerman was an idiot before the killing and remains one, he was angry on the 911 call and wasn't exactly chipper following The killing (unless you believe getting beat up by a kid he outweighed by 40lbs would put a smile on his face), and he did in fact pursue Martin. None of that is speculation. Saying he was getting roughed up enough to legitimately fear for his life would be speculation on your part. But I'll call it BS. He just doesn't seem credible, nor reasonable.

I can't believe people still doubt the fact that Martin was on top of Zimmerman beating his ###. Hasn't this been confirmed by multiple eyewitness accounts?Somebody punches you in the nose and knocks you down is one thing but if they jump on top of you and continue pounding it is perfectly reasonable for someone to be in fear for his life IMO.

And if someone is following you to the point where you fear for your life and try to subdue them, it's perfectly reasonable to make sure the guy is knocked out so he can't reach for a weapon, like a gun.

How'd that reasoning work out in this case.. Doesn't seem so smart and reasonable to me..And there still is no proof that Zimmerman was following Trayvon to the point Trayvon was in fear for his life.

If Zimmerman chased Trayvon down and tried to detain him, and Trayvon then punched him, knocked him down, and then was holding him down thinking someone was coming to help, or to call the police for him.. That would be a legitimate reason for Trayvon to be on top.. Problem is, no one is here to testify on that scenario.. The Prosecution has criteria they have to meet. I think they're going to have a hard time meeting it..

Well, there's no proof Z was in fear for his life either other than the word of a man with several past incidents of violence and who has shown his willingness to decieve the authorities for his own protection. And when you get down to fear for your life, smart and reasonable go out the window. That's why it's called fear.As for holding him down, like I said, if TM feared for his life from this stalker, I think it's eminently reasonable to keep pounding til the follower is unconscious.

So it's reasonable for someone to beat a "stalker" unconscious but its not reasonable for someone to fear their life after being beaten up and having their head pounded on the ground?

I've never said that. But if Zimmerman got himself into a position to get his ### beat by being overzealous (a very, very proveable position) and overconfident (because he was packing), then it's entirely his fault that someone is dead. You don't get to scare someone into protecting themself and then kill them because they're winning.

Under certain circumstances, Florida law disagrees with you.

 

[mad sweeney]

I think using the terms "approached", "concerned neighbor" and "adult" is why we're at loggerheads here.

Angry idiot in pursuit with a gun and his mind made up is more in line with the facts, as we know them. Zimmerman has done nothing to show he is an adult in the aftermath.

Potayto, patahto.

During the confrontation, the bolded is the only thing we're certain of, the rest is speculation..

Zimmerman was an idiot before the killing and remains one, he was angry on the 911 call and wasn't exactly chipper following The killing (unless you believe getting beat up by a kid he outweighed by 40lbs would put a smile on his face), and he did in fact pursue Martin. None of that is speculation. Saying he was getting roughed up enough to legitimately fear for his life would be speculation on your part. But I'll call it BS. He just doesn't seem credible, nor reasonable.

I can't believe people still doubt the fact that Martin was on top of Zimmerman beating his ###. Hasn't this been confirmed by multiple eyewitness accounts?Somebody punches you in the nose and knocks you down is one thing but if they jump on top of you and continue pounding it is perfectly reasonable for someone to be in fear for his life IMO.

And if someone is following you to the point where you fear for your life and try to subdue them, it's perfectly reasonable to make sure the guy is knocked out so he can't reach for a weapon, like a gun.

How'd that reasoning work out in this case.. Doesn't seem so smart and reasonable to me..And there still is no proof that Zimmerman was following Trayvon to the point Trayvon was in fear for his life.

If Zimmerman chased Trayvon down and tried to detain him, and Trayvon then punched him, knocked him down, and then was holding him down thinking someone was coming to help, or to call the police for him.. That would be a legitimate reason for Trayvon to be on top.. Problem is, no one is here to testify on that scenario.. The Prosecution has criteria they have to meet. I think they're going to have a hard time meeting it..

Well, there's no proof Z was in fear for his life either other than the word of a man with several past incidents of violence and who has shown his willingness to decieve the authorities for his own protection. And when you get down to fear for your life, smart and reasonable go out the window. That's why it's called fear.As for holding him down, like I said, if TM feared for his life from this stalker, I think it's eminently reasonable to keep pounding til the follower is unconscious.

So it's reasonable for someone to beat a "stalker" unconscious but its not reasonable for someone to fear their life after being beaten up and having their head pounded on the ground?

I've never said that. But if Zimmerman got himself into a position to get his ### beat by being overzealous (a very, very proveable position) and overconfident (because he was packing), then it's entirely his fault that someone is dead. You don't get to scare someone into protecting themself and then kill them because they're winning.

Under certain circumstances, Florida law disagrees with you.

 

[Christo]

In other words, he willfully participated in deceiving the court

It seems to me that there should be some punishment for this, even if Christo is correct that we can't call it perjury.

For instance, why have another bond trial? Why should this guy be allowed to plead his case for not being in jail again after he deceived the court the first time? The judge should just cancel the new bond trial, and fine the attorney as well.

Because his bond is based upon his finances and the judge's belief whether he's a flight risk.Why should he fine O'Mara?

 

[Chairshot]

So for argument sake, lets say Trayvon was in fear for his life.. Then what? That excludes Zimmerman from also being afraid? Couldn't they both have been afraid? Giving them both the right to use lethal force.

I'd like a lawyer type to clear this up...it would seem to me that in order for someone to claim self-defense, that means another person needs to be an aggressor. I don't see how 2 people can be "self-defending" at the same time. At least one person has to be the aggressor. If Martin is acting in self-defense as he is beating Zimmerman, that means Zimmerman is the aggressor, putting him in the wrong for shooting Martin. If Zimmerman is acting in self-defense, then Martin has to be the aggressor, leaving Zimmerman in fear for his life and therefore he is justified in using lethal force. If they are both "self-defending" then there is no fight...At least that's how it would logically seem to me. Can someone comment on the legality of CH's hypothetical?

 

[TexanFan02]

What are you guys still doing in here? Has anything new really come out since the arrest?

We're making fun of Carolina Hustler.

And Christo.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

It will probably be kept out of trial, and that actually seems reasonable to me. But for the purposes of this discussion, Zimmerman has proved himself a knowing liar. The jury won't discover, based on this, how dishonest this ******* is. But WE know it. And therefore it is unfathomable to me how anyone here can take Zimmerman's tale of what happened and believe it's the truth.

This coming from a guy who plagiarizes .

Ive never plagiarized anything in my life.

I've read this somewhere before.

 

[Chairshot]

I've never said that. But if Zimmerman got himself into a position to get his ### beat by being overzealous (a very, very proveable position) and overconfident (because he was packing), then it's entirely his fault that someone is dead. You don't get to scare someone into protecting themself and then kill them because they're winning.

Under certain circumstances, Florida law disagrees with you.

If this is actually true, then Florida law is pretty disgusting in regard to this issue.

 

[culdeus]

What are you guys still doing in here? Has anything new really come out since the arrest?

We're making fun of Carolina Hustler.

And Christo.

you sure they aren't the same person?

 

[Christo]

So for argument sake, lets say Trayvon was in fear for his life.. Then what? That excludes Zimmerman from also being afraid? Couldn't they both have been afraid? Giving them both the right to use lethal force.

I'd like a lawyer type to clear this up...it would seem to me that in order for someone to claim self-defense, that means another person needs to be an aggressor. I don't see how 2 people can be "self-defending" at the same time. At least one person has to be the aggressor. If Martin is acting in self-defense as he is beating Zimmerman, that means Zimmerman is the aggressor, putting him in the wrong for shooting Martin. If Zimmerman is acting in self-defense, then Martin has to be the aggressor, leaving Zimmerman in fear for his life and therefore he is justified in using lethal force. If they are both "self-defending" then there is no fight...At least that's how it would logically seem to me. Can someone comment on the legality of CH's hypothetical?

It was cleared up over 200 pages ago. It's possible that the right to self defence passes back and forth between the people in the fight.

 

[Christo]

I've never said that. But if Zimmerman got himself into a position to get his ### beat by being overzealous (a very, very proveable position) and overconfident (because he was packing), then it's entirely his fault that someone is dead. You don't get to scare someone into protecting themself and then kill them because they're winning.

Under certain circumstances, Florida law disagrees with you.

If this is actually true, then Florida law is pretty disgusting in regard to this issue.

It would be good if some of you would just read the law at issue here.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Serious question. How many people in this thread would do what zimmerman did that night? Get out of your car and follow some kid in a housing community for no real reason. The kid isnt breaking into cars or houses. Hes just walking.I wouldnt.

If I'm in my truck, and I'm the neighborhood watch guy, and I call 911.. And the dispatcher is asking of a point to point accounting of what the kid is doing, I'd consider getting out of the vehicle and following from a distance in able to provide information to law enforcement..

 

[TexanFan02]

What are you guys still doing in here? Has anything new really come out since the arrest?

We're making fun of Carolina Hustler.

And Christo.

you sure they aren't the same person?

It's entirely possible.

 

[Chairshot]

So for argument sake, lets say Trayvon was in fear for his life.. Then what? That excludes Zimmerman from also being afraid? Couldn't they both have been afraid? Giving them both the right to use lethal force.

I'd like a lawyer type to clear this up...it would seem to me that in order for someone to claim self-defense, that means another person needs to be an aggressor. I don't see how 2 people can be "self-defending" at the same time. At least one person has to be the aggressor. If Martin is acting in self-defense as he is beating Zimmerman, that means Zimmerman is the aggressor, putting him in the wrong for shooting Martin. If Zimmerman is acting in self-defense, then Martin has to be the aggressor, leaving Zimmerman in fear for his life and therefore he is justified in using lethal force. If they are both "self-defending" then there is no fight...At least that's how it would logically seem to me. Can someone comment on the legality of CH's hypothetical?

It was cleared up over 200 pages ago. It's possible that the right to self defence passes back and forth between the people in the fight.

CH's hypothetical doesn't have the right to self defense passing back and forth. It has it where they are both afraid so they both have the right to use lethal force. Is that a legal possibility?