Fox says Orton starter... (1 Viewer)

[Bojang0301]

Fox presser

 

[Mookie]

Orton the Starter

Tebow the Starter

Orton Being Shopped

Open Competition Between Tebow and Orton

Orton the Starter

The more things change in Denver, the more they stay the same.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

In February no less.

Lock it in!

 

[ConstruxBoy]

All I can tell you after living in Charlotte for 7 years is that Fox is not exactly a "play the young guys" kind of coach.

 

[JFurby]

If this is just a smoke screen, Denver helps retain Orton's value by announcing he will be the starter. Now they can shop around a starter QB instead of the backup to a project sophomore.

 

[N Zone]

Fox says Orton's the starter means Orton's the starter. Nothing to read into it. Tebow is a young backup.

 

[FUBAR]

Fox should defer to McCoy on this decision and Tebow will probably win out in camp anyway.

 

[BusMan]

After picking my jaw off the floor when I first heard this, I've had some time to think about Fox's statement and I've come to believe he is playing this perfectly.

First, Orton has already indicated he believes he should be the starter. Check. No reason for Orton to get pissy (at least at this point).

As others have already mentioned, Fox's statement, coupled with Elway's statements about the quarterback position, prevents Orton's perceived trade value from taking too much of a hit.

There is nothing wrong with an open competition, should Orton stick with the team and there actually be an NFL season. I'm sure Tebow would relish the opportunity.

Were Orton to stick with Denver and win the job, one would think he'll have the shortest of leashes. Fox's history with starting veterans over more talented younger players (whether in perception and/or reality) indicates that leash might be longer than many would hope.

The bigger element at play is the fan base. Tebow is someone the fans can get excited about and rally around, win or lose. At least temporarily. If Bowlen is starting to feel the pinch from the last decade of mediocrity, that might push things in Tebows favor.

All in all, seems like the saavy approach for both Elway and Fox. I'm handing out some check-pluses on my late-February report card.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

As others have already mentioned, Fox's statement, coupled with Elway's statements about the quarterback position, prevents Orton's perceived trade value from taking too much of a hit.

Why do people always say this? It's such an absurd notion. These aren't 3rd graders running the other teams.What, does everyone think the other GM's are sitting there thinking "well everyone in the world knows they were trying to trade this guy, but now they say he's the starter so I really want him now"?I mean, do you guys go onto your fantasy football trade message boards and post that you're looking to trade a guy, then make a new thread a week later that says he's your starter and you're really confident in him thinking that it's going to suddenly create an influx of great trade offers?

 

[BusMan]

As others have already mentioned, Fox's statement, coupled with Elway's statements about the quarterback position, prevents Orton's perceived trade value from taking too much of a hit.

Why do people always say this? It's such an absurd notion. These aren't 3rd graders running the other teams.What, does everyone think the other GM's are sitting there thinking "well everyone in the world knows they were trying to trade this guy, but now they say he's the starter so I really want him now"?

I mean, do you guys go onto your fantasy football trade message boards and post that you're looking to trade a guy, then make a new thread a week later that says he's your starter and you're really confident in him thinking that it's going to suddenly create an influx of great trade offers?

No, its not absurd. Fox's history alone indicates that its entirely possible Orton will be the starter through camp and into the season. I think most GMs assume Orton is on the block, but its not a given. Especially when you have writers like Michael Lombardi saying that Tebow doesn't have any support in the current Broncos brain trust.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

As others have already mentioned, Fox's statement, coupled with Elway's statements about the quarterback position, prevents Orton's perceived trade value from taking too much of a hit.

Why do people always say this? It's such an absurd notion. These aren't 3rd graders running the other teams.What, does everyone think the other GM's are sitting there thinking "well everyone in the world knows they were trying to trade this guy, but now they say he's the starter so I really want him now"?I mean, do you guys go onto your fantasy football trade message boards and post that you're looking to trade a guy, then make a new thread a week later that says he's your starter and you're really confident in him thinking that it's going to suddenly create an influx of great trade offers?

Here's the difference:a) You say Tebow's the starter. Orton's definitely not wanting to play for you and he's unhappy. Now you're in a position where you kind of have to trade him because he's an unhappy designated backup. If Tebow got hurt I wouldn't feel confident in Orton's motivation to tear into that playbook. Teams will lowball you because you have to ditch the guy.b) You say Orton's the starter. You let Tebow know he has to earn the job, you give Orton motivation to rise to the challenge and you put yourself in a position to keep both (I don't see Tebow pouting for starting year 2 on the bench). Now if a team wants him they have to offer something decent. You have two talented QBs ready to play for you. If you let one go, you have to get something good in return.All Denver really needs is three teams gunning for Kolb and McNabb. One team will be left out and fans will demand they get somebody. Enter Orton.I see that as a plausible rationale for this move, anyway.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

This is Typical 'John Fox'

He plays the established veteran/incumbent. I don't believe all the suggested 'hocus pocus' in this thread. He might word it in a way that allows the media and football nuts to construct interpretations, but generally he tells you early who he is going to use, and he has typically used those guys (veterans/incumbents) beyond their shelf life.

 

[meanjoegreen]

This is Typical 'John Fox'He plays the established veteran/incumbent. I don't believe all the suggested 'hocus pocus' in this thread. He might word it in a way that allows the media and football nuts to construct interpretations, but generally he tells you early who he is going to use, and he has typically used those guys (veterans/incumbents) beyond their shelf life.

That isn't exactly true. In his second year as HC of the Panthers, Fox pulled second year starter Rodney Peete in the first game of the season at half time, and replaced him with the then backup Jake Delhomme, who led them to the Super Bowl that season.

 

[a_rackowski]

To me it is all Market value. Teams like Carolina, Arizona, Buffalo, Cincinnati, Minnesota, Washington, SF, maybe Cleveland, and Jac Miami.........all these teams are likely QB shopping for a young, dynamic, franchise face. Without Question Tebow would bring back a 1st round pick, maybe even a first and an additional day 3 pick. Orton on the other hand brings a day 2 pick at best.

If Fox thinks that he would be able to win with better than average, veteran QB play (Orton) and build with multiple picks, for sure he should be looking to move Tebow before Orton. I think that whichever way Fox goes, he has a more talented QB than he had ever had before in Carolina.

To me what this statement said is "for the right price Tebow is available."

 

[moleculo]

Orton was the starter last year, and played very well until he got hurt. As the incumbent, no reason he shouldn't remain the srarter, until he isn't on the team, is injured, or beaten out in training camp.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

This is Typical 'John Fox'He plays the established veteran/incumbent. I don't believe all the suggested 'hocus pocus' in this thread. He might word it in a way that allows the media and football nuts to construct interpretations, but generally he tells you early who he is going to use, and he has typically used those guys (veterans/incumbents) beyond their shelf life.

That isn't exactly true. In his second year as HC of the Panthers, Fox pulled second year starter Rodney Peete in the first game of the season at half time, and replaced him with the then backup Jake Delhomme, who led them to the Super Bowl that season.

I don't think anyone in Carolina expected Pete to be a long term answer to begin with. And to be fair, Pete was given the start, it was his to lose.. And Delhomme was a veteran at that point, he was signed as an undrafted free agent to the Saints in 1997, and 2003 when starting for the panthers. 6 Year veteran..There are many examples of what I spoke of, and I didn't say every time. Obviously you have to replace players at some point. Carolina fans know exactly what I'm talking about, GENERALLY (just as I said above) fox sticks with the veteran/incumbent types.... First/second year players didn't typically start. More so then the average HC.. That's why he has that reputation.

 

[BusMan]

Orton was the starter last year, and played very well until he got hurt. As the incumbent, no reason he shouldn't remain the srarter, until he isn't on the team, is injured, or beaten out in training camp.

Was Orton hurt in his last two (atrocious) starts? I didn't know that.

 

[Courtjester]

The bottom line is this franchise needs to do something to keep the fans coming to the games. This team needs Tebow. He puts butts in the seats so to speak. If he had not started those last few games, I would have bet those games may have been blacked out in Denver. Without Tebow, this team has ZERO stars on offense (yes, I believe Lloyd may very well be a one-year wonder) and exactly two known faces on defense in Bailey/Dawkins.

The bad guy is gone and Fox can play the McDaniel's card for a little bit, "Oh look at the shape he left us in," and get a pass. If Orton doesn't win games (and that is all we care about) then Fox may find himself a very unpopular coach for not having started Tebow. I like what some of the above posters are suggesting that this may be a ploy to motivate Orton or even increase his trade value, so we will see.

This draft is huge for this team. I know everyone says that every year, but McDaniels set this team back 3-5 years. This team has to hit a homerun here and not get cute and try and take a QB with one of its higher picks.

 

[meanjoegreen]

This is Typical 'John Fox'He plays the established veteran/incumbent. I don't believe all the suggested 'hocus pocus' in this thread. He might word it in a way that allows the media and football nuts to construct interpretations, but generally he tells you early who he is going to use, and he has typically used those guys (veterans/incumbents) beyond their shelf life.

That isn't exactly true. In his second year as HC of the Panthers, Fox pulled second year starter Rodney Peete in the first game of the season at half time, and replaced him with the then backup Jake Delhomme, who led them to the Super Bowl that season.

I don't think anyone in Carolina expected Pete to be a long term answer to begin with. And to be fair, Pete was given the start, it was his to lose.. And Delhomme was a veteran at that point, he was signed as an undrafted free agent to the Saints in 1997, and 2003 when starting for the panthers. 6 Year veteran..There are many examples of what I spoke of, and I didn't say every time. Obviously you have to replace players at some point. Carolina fans know exactly what I'm talking about, GENERALLY (just as I said above) fox sticks with the veteran/incumbent types.... First/second year players didn't typically start. More so then the average HC.. That's why he has that reputation.

I am a Carolina fan.

 

[menobrown]

All I can tell you after living in Charlotte for 7 years is that Fox is not exactly a "play the young guys" kind of coach.

Here is what I've been trying to figure out. In Charlotte was he adverse to playing young guys or was he adverse to not playing "his" guys. Because there is a difference between remaining loyal to your guys versus not playing new guys since in Denver he won't have any of "his" guys around.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

This is Typical 'John Fox'He plays the established veteran/incumbent. I don't believe all the suggested 'hocus pocus' in this thread. He might word it in a way that allows the media and football nuts to construct interpretations, but generally he tells you early who he is going to use, and he has typically used those guys (veterans/incumbents) beyond their shelf life.

That isn't exactly true. In his second year as HC of the Panthers, Fox pulled second year starter Rodney Peete in the first game of the season at half time, and replaced him with the then backup Jake Delhomme, who led them to the Super Bowl that season.

I don't think anyone in Carolina expected Pete to be a long term answer to begin with. And to be fair, Pete was given the start, it was his to lose.. And Delhomme was a veteran at that point, he was signed as an undrafted free agent to the Saints in 1997, and 2003 when starting for the panthers. 6 Year veteran..There are many examples of what I spoke of, and I didn't say every time. Obviously you have to replace players at some point. Carolina fans know exactly what I'm talking about, GENERALLY (just as I said above) fox sticks with the veteran/incumbent types.... First/second year players didn't typically start. More so then the average HC.. That's why he has that reputation.

I am a Carolina fan.

Then you know what I'm talking about..

 

[meanjoegreen]

All I can tell you after living in Charlotte for 7 years is that Fox is not exactly a "play the young guys" kind of coach.

Here is what I've been trying to figure out. In Charlotte was he adverse to playing young guys or was he adverse to not playing "his" guys. Because there is a difference between remaining loyal to your guys versus not playing new guys since in Denver he won't have any of "his" guys around.

Fox was not adverse to playing or starting young guys, nor was he adverse to not playing guys that were on the Panthers squad before he arrived.

 

[omally]

All I can tell you after living in Charlotte for 7 years is that Fox is not exactly a "play the young guys" kind of coach.

Here is what I've been trying to figure out. In Charlotte was he adverse to playing young guys or was he adverse to not playing "his" guys. Because there is a difference between remaining loyal to your guys versus not playing new guys since in Denver he won't have any of "his" guys around.

Fox was not adverse to playing or starting young guys, nor was he adverse to not playing guys that were on the Panthers squad before he arrived.

Agreed. Fox has started many of his young guys, and he continued to start most of the guys that were there prior to his arrival. Fox did stick with Delhomme a year or two too long, but nobody expected that epic meltdown. Cowher stuck with Kordell Stewart for too long as well, most all coaches have done it with someone. Some complain about Foster starting over Williams during Williams first two years, but Williams will be the first to tell you that he wasn't ready. He said he didn't "get it" until the summer after Foster left. He blocked awful, he danced behind the line, and he just didn't take it seriously. Many of his teammates commented on how surprised they were by his improvement and dedication that summer. Fox has started rookies such as Peppers, Beason, Otah, Gross, Gamble, etc. Kalil started late in his rookie season. He didn't draft Steve Smith, but he used Smith as a starter at WR his first year as HC, which was Smith's second year in the league. Fox plays who he feels gives him the best chance to win, and the players like playing for him. I hope he succeeds in Denver.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

All I can tell you after living in Charlotte for 7 years is that Fox is not exactly a "play the young guys" kind of coach.

Here is what I've been trying to figure out. In Charlotte was he adverse to playing young guys or was he adverse to not playing "his" guys. Because there is a difference between remaining loyal to your guys versus not playing new guys since in Denver he won't have any of "his" guys around.

Fox was not adverse to playing or starting young guys, nor was he adverse to not playing guys that were on the Panthers squad before he arrived.

Often times the young guys sat behind veterans.

 

[faulkfan]

As others have already mentioned, Fox's statement, coupled with Elway's statements about the quarterback position, prevents Orton's perceived trade value from taking too much of a hit.

Why do people always say this? It's such an absurd notion. These aren't 3rd graders running the other teams.What, does everyone think the other GM's are sitting there thinking "well everyone in the world knows they were trying to trade this guy, but now they say he's the starter so I really want him now"?



I mean, do you guys go onto your fantasy football trade message boards and post that you're looking to trade a guy, then make a new thread a week later that says he's your starter and you're really confident in him thinking that it's going to suddenly create an influx of great trade offers?

I'm not that obvious about it, but I do misdirect all the time with the intention of keeping my options open. Why would I want to be completely transparent with my opponents? Someone just asked me the other day who my keepers are and I intentionally left Andre Johnson out and mentioned that the guys I didn't list I was thinking of trying to trade. I also put Blount in as a definite keeper. Truth is I would have to get a ton to deal Andre, but I would move Blount if the opportunity presents itself.I don't remember Fox saying Tebow was his starter and Orton was fodder, but I haven't followed the situation all that closely. However, I haven't seen anything that Fox has said that makes him seem like he is flip flopping. Either way, it is never a good idea to tell every other team that you don't like your veteran QB if you are going to try and trade him.

 

[meanjoegreen]

All I can tell you after living in Charlotte for 7 years is that Fox is not exactly a "play the young guys" kind of coach.

Here is what I've been trying to figure out. In Charlotte was he adverse to playing young guys or was he adverse to not playing "his" guys. Because there is a difference between remaining loyal to your guys versus not playing new guys since in Denver he won't have any of "his" guys around.

Fox was not adverse to playing or starting young guys, nor was he adverse to not playing guys that were on the Panthers squad before he arrived.

Often times the young guys sat behind veterans.

Do you honestly think it is odd for some young guys to sit behind veterans? Every team has that.

 

[meanjoegreen]

All I can tell you after living in Charlotte for 7 years is that Fox is not exactly a "play the young guys" kind of coach.

Here is what I've been trying to figure out. In Charlotte was he adverse to playing young guys or was he adverse to not playing "his" guys. Because there is a difference between remaining loyal to your guys versus not playing new guys since in Denver he won't have any of "his" guys around.

Fox was not adverse to playing or starting young guys, nor was he adverse to not playing guys that were on the Panthers squad before he arrived.

Agreed. Fox has started many of his young guys, and he continued to start most of the guys that were there prior to his arrival. Fox did stick with Delhomme a year or two too long, but nobody expected that epic meltdown. Cowher stuck with Kordell Stewart for too long as well, most all coaches have done it with someone. Some complain about Foster starting over Williams during Williams first two years, but Williams will be the first to tell you that he wasn't ready. He said he didn't "get it" until the summer after Foster left. He blocked awful, he danced behind the line, and he just didn't take it seriously. Many of his teammates commented on how surprised they were by his improvement and dedication that summer. Fox has started rookies such as Peppers, Beason, Otah, Gross, Gamble, etc. Kalil started late in his rookie season. He didn't draft Steve Smith, but he used Smith as a starter at WR his first year as HC, which was Smith's second year in the league. Fox plays who he feels gives him the best chance to win, and the players like playing for him. I hope he succeeds in Denver.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

All I can tell you after living in Charlotte for 7 years is that Fox is not exactly a "play the young guys" kind of coach.

Here is what I've been trying to figure out. In Charlotte was he adverse to playing young guys or was he adverse to not playing "his" guys. Because there is a difference between remaining loyal to your guys versus not playing new guys since in Denver he won't have any of "his" guys around.

Fox was not adverse to playing or starting young guys, nor was he adverse to not playing guys that were on the Panthers squad before he arrived.

Often times the young guys sat behind veterans.

Do you honestly think it is odd for some young guys to sit behind veterans? Every team has that.

Fox typically leaned towards his veterans, which slowed the future development of this team. Delhomme wasn't the only guy who played here past his shelf life.No, it's not odd.. I never said it was. There are varying degrees, fox is on the take less chances/play it safe with veterans side.In all the years Fox was here, how many young promising guys has he developed? Especially in skill positions? I'm not talking about first round talent and such, that came in ready to go. Delhomme was the only Fox made product I can think of... And like I said, he was a 6 year vet, and Fox leaned on him too long.Odds are heavily weighed in Orton's favor. I would be VERY VERY surprised if Orton doesn't start the season under center.

 

[simey]

In all the years Fox was here, how many young promising guys has he developed? Especially in skill positions? I'm not talking about first round talent and such, that came in ready to go. Delhomme was the only Fox made product I can think of... And like I said, he was a 6 year vet, and Fox leaned on him too long.

Steve Smith developed as a WR under Fox. He just finished his rookie season as a return specialist when Fox arrived. Not all first round talent comes in ready to go, and DeAngelo is good example of that. DeAngelo Williams developed well under Fox after he had two years to learn from Foster. Kris Jenkins was a 2nd rounder in 2001, and he blossomed in 2002 under Fox. Mike Rucker was a second rounder drafted in 1999, and his most productive years were under Fox. Dan Morgan was a first rounder in 2001, but he only started 11 games. In 2002 his play improved greatly under Fox. The Panthers went from the worse defense in 2001, to the second best defense in 2002, and that was under Fox. Brad Hoover was undrafted in 2000 as a RB, but the Panthers signed him. John Fox arrived and made him the starting fullback in 2002, and he developed into a great fullback. There are more players, but the bottom line is young talent has been developed under Fox.

 

[BassNBrew]

All in all, seems like the saavy approach for both Elway and Fox. I'm handing out some check-pluses on my late-February report card.

Saavy and Fox should never be used in the same sentance unless the "f" in fox is in lower case letters.