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Game Thread W5 - Philadelphia V Buffalo (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Andy Hicks
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Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
How. Dumb. Can. You. Be?
((Morpheus))
Footballguy
renesauz
IBL Representative
Not what I meant. You can't RELY on turnovers to make your defense "work", because at some point, someone is NOT going to turn it over. Buffalo needs to get better at the old fashioned STOP.Good win for Buffalo either way...and I'll be rooting for them to improve on defense and take down the Jets and Pats. And I'm honestly glad to see the Bills very much relevant again!
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
The Eagles were the better team, but the Bills forced - yes, FORCED - 5 turnovers. You force 5 turnovers and you've got a chance to beat anyone in the NFL.
The offsides was horrible at the end, but the Bills defense really did take this game away from the Eagles.
The offsides was horrible at the end, but the Bills defense really did take this game away from the Eagles.
GoBirds
Footballguy
...according to Vince Young, he doesnt even have an IQ.Dream Team!!
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
To be fair to him, though, it wasn't entirely his fault. First INT was deflected, and he got hit on both the 2nd and 3rd INTs (so I guess some of that could be put on the O-line). The 4th INT was all on Avant.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I agree with this FWIW. With all the turnovers Buffalo got, this game should have been a blowout. The bottom line is that as long as this D keeps giving up 450+ yards per game, we're not going anywhere.Not what I meant. You can't RELY on turnovers to make your defense "work", because at some point, someone is NOT going to turn it over. Buffalo needs to get better at the old fashioned STOP.Good win for Buffalo either way...and I'll be rooting for them to improve on defense and take down the Jets and Pats. And I'm honestly glad to see the Bills very much relevant again!
which would you rather have right now?A Bills defense that can't really stop anyone but forces lots of turnoversorAn Eagles defense that can't really stop anyone and doesn't force turnovers?I expected this Bills team to be in the Luck Lottery and they are 4-1.I expected this Eagles team to be a Super Bowl contender and they are 1-4.Odd that you are telling me the Bills "aren't going anywhere with this defense". Where are the Eagles going with the best defense money can buy?
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Steve Tasker
Footballguy
duaneok66
Footballguy
he will find some excuse . . .
where do you guys really want to go?pretty sure we all thought this team was going to be in mix for Andrew Luck during the preseason. They are 4-1 with wins over the PATRIOTS and EAGLES.plenty of good things coming out of this defense to be excited about.
renesauz
IBL Representative
Only 1 was his fault though
Irish Chaos
Footballguy
are you serious? maybe avant....
renesauz
IBL Representative
The Buffalo D I expect the Philly D to greatly improve as the season moves along (too many new pieces in new places to be good early), but it will be too late. For your Bills, it's not too late.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
It's as bad as the West.
duaneok66
Footballguy
agreed . . . 4-1 and people are complaining - any Bills fan would have taken this two months ago . . .where do you guys really want to go?pretty sure we all thought this team was going to be in mix for Andrew Luck during the preseason. They are 4-1 with wins over the PATRIOTS and EAGLES.plenty of good things coming out of this defense to be excited about.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Agreed. Turnovers are pretty much a crapshoot. Buffalo has done a great job forcing them, but eventually bounces start going the other way. They have done a great job not putting the ball on the turf though on the offensive side of the ball.Either way, they need to run playaction and throw downfield some. They were so conservative in the second half that the even the putrid Eagles defense was able to sell out to stopping the run and screens. And that's all Buffalo kept running. A deep pass downfield HAD to be open at some point on a short pump fake or playaction.And I'm tired of hearing about how the Bills don't have anyone to run those deep routes. Stevie Johnson had several long catches last year and the one that he dropped in overtime against the Steelers was a huge deep pass. If they don't try to stretch the field a bit, teams are going to stack up close and it's going to be impossible to do anything on offense against better defenses (like what happened against the Bengals).
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
No complaints here, I love the opportunistic play. Still, though, there is going to come a point where the Bills aren't going to be able to force a turnover and will actually have to stop the opponent. I think that's what it will take if the Bills are truly going to separate themselves amongst the league's best. No use playing the "what if?" game, because who knows what'd happen, but if the Bills don't force those turnovers against the Patriots and Eagles, I'm not sure they win those games. It would've been a lot more convincing for me if the Bills had managed to slow down the Eagles a little bit more (especially in the late 3rd/early 4th) without the help of turnovers. That's all I'm saying.where do you guys really want to go?pretty sure we all thought this team was going to be in mix for Andrew Luck during the preseason. They are 4-1 with wins over the PATRIOTS and EAGLES.plenty of good things coming out of this defense to be excited about.
throwing deep against the Eagles corners is probably not the best idea, IMO.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I mean the playoffs. Don't get me wrong -- I'm very happy to see Buffalo winning. Hell, I'm happy just to see them be entertaining. I just think it's worth keeping perspectives in line. Our offense is playoff-caliber, but our defense isn't. And I think it's basically right to point out that some of these turnovers aren't going to keep happening. This is the second week in a row where we got an "interception" thanks to a receiver dropping a pass and having it bounce up right into the hands of a defender. Those are flukey plays that, and when teams rely on those kinds of plays to close out games, those are the teams that tend to fade in November and December.None of this is meant as a big crack on the team or anything. The Bills are tremendously better than the were last year at 3-13. But they're really still a year away from being a playoff team IMO.where do you guys really want to go?pretty sure we all thought this team was going to be in mix for Andrew Luck during the preseason. They are 4-1 with wins over the PATRIOTS and EAGLES.plenty of good things coming out of this defense to be excited about.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I agree with this. The Bills have done a great job stretching defenses this year, but as long as the Eagles aren't going to tackle and are going to give you extra yardage on short routes, why test the strength of their defense?
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Throwing deep against Samuels wouldn't bother me a bit. Buffalo's tall, big receivers could easily shield him from the ball and outjump him. And Nnamdi was playing mostly run support and the short pass in the second half. He was in on about 75% of the run tackles in the 4th quarter.
obviously it's very frustrating when the defense can't get stops on 3rd down, but this was the Eagles offense. Vick can shred any defense in the league on any given Sunday and make them look ridiculous. It was much worse when Andy Dalton and the Bengals were doing it last week, IMO.
as long as they keep coming up with takeaways, they don't need to be a whole lot better on defense. there are reasons to think they can get better though even if the takeaways dry up. Dareus is very young but looks like a future star, Kyle Williams has not played up to expectations, Barnett is new to the team, McGee getting healthy, etc. They figured out that Moats might be their best pass rusher and gave him a chance today. George Wilson and Jairus Byrd are playing pretty well despite getting very little pass rush. Florence is pretty solid. McKelvin isn't. Aaron Williams might still help down the road. Sheppard helped force an INT on a blitz today.
This was a pretty scary matchup and yet the Eagles had only put up 7 points midway through the 3rd quarter.
as long as they keep coming up with takeaways, they don't need to be a whole lot better on defense. there are reasons to think they can get better though even if the takeaways dry up. Dareus is very young but looks like a future star, Kyle Williams has not played up to expectations, Barnett is new to the team, McGee getting healthy, etc. They figured out that Moats might be their best pass rusher and gave him a chance today. George Wilson and Jairus Byrd are playing pretty well despite getting very little pass rush. Florence is pretty solid. McKelvin isn't. Aaron Williams might still help down the road. Sheppard helped force an INT on a blitz today.
This was a pretty scary matchup and yet the Eagles had only put up 7 points midway through the 3rd quarter.
dharmapunk
Footballguy
Woo hoo!
Highlights from the bar I found -
1. Not one, but two different Eagles fans buying me a pint of Guinness. I told them I sympathized because what they're going through is like being a Bills fan for the past decade. I may overstated things, but for free beer I'd have let them lick my nipples.
2. An entire bar erupting in an impromptu version of SHOUT! after Barnett snagged that second INT in the fourth quarter.
Good times.
4-1!
Highlights from the bar I found -
1. Not one, but two different Eagles fans buying me a pint of Guinness. I told them I sympathized because what they're going through is like being a Bills fan for the past decade. I may overstated things, but for free beer I'd have let them lick my nipples.
2. An entire bar erupting in an impromptu version of SHOUT! after Barnett snagged that second INT in the fourth quarter.
Good times.
4-1!
I can't believe this Bills team is maybe a play or two away from being 5-0.
smapdi
Footballguy
I keep hearing how the Bills D is getting lucky and pretty much suck.. that is total BS
This defense has now forced 9 turnovers against the Patriots and Eagles; the national media's two most popular picks for their Superbowl predictions.
You don't "luck" into forcing 9 turnovers against two very good teams that were consensus Superbowl favorites. The Bills D has been ferocious at forcing turnovers and only one of those was really luck- the Vick INT he threw straight to the LB. All of the rest were great plays by their defense.
George Wilson and Jairus Byrd are blossoming into one of the best saftey combos in the NFL. Wilson had one of the best half's I've ever seen out of a DB in the first half; he was all over the field making plays. Byrd has become the best tackler on the team. He struggled tremendously his first year with his tackling and angles; this season he is laying people out. He made an absolutely beautiful open field tackle to save a TD. He isn't just dragging people down.. he is laying people the #### out
This defense has now forced 9 turnovers against the Patriots and Eagles; the national media's two most popular picks for their Superbowl predictions.
You don't "luck" into forcing 9 turnovers against two very good teams that were consensus Superbowl favorites. The Bills D has been ferocious at forcing turnovers and only one of those was really luck- the Vick INT he threw straight to the LB. All of the rest were great plays by their defense.
George Wilson and Jairus Byrd are blossoming into one of the best saftey combos in the NFL. Wilson had one of the best half's I've ever seen out of a DB in the first half; he was all over the field making plays. Byrd has become the best tackler on the team. He struggled tremendously his first year with his tackling and angles; this season he is laying people out. He made an absolutely beautiful open field tackle to save a TD. He isn't just dragging people down.. he is laying people the #### out
Bills_Fan11
Footballguy
I don't like to pretend like luck doesn't exist in turnovers, because they clearly do. Two years ago everyone was sucking off Gregg Williams in NO for putting this great "emphasis on turnovers" (as if he is the only coach to do that). How then do you explain the Saints being in the middle of the pack in takeaways last year; did he stop emphasizing turnovers last year?
Now that that's out of the way, I don't think it is fair to look at the box score and write everything off to luck. Sure, Brady's throw bouncing off of Dareus's head was luck. But two of the other Brady picks were good plays on the ball. Two of the picks today were a direct result of getting in Vick's face and making him panic. On the last one, Florence came off the guy he was covering and delivered a good hit (which btw would've set up a 4th down even if it were caught).
Of course it's true we can't win giving up 400+ yards every week. But we also aren't playing the Patriots & Eagles every week - nobody really stops these teams. Hopefully the defense tightens up vs. the Bengals of the world.
Now that that's out of the way, I don't think it is fair to look at the box score and write everything off to luck. Sure, Brady's throw bouncing off of Dareus's head was luck. But two of the other Brady picks were good plays on the ball. Two of the picks today were a direct result of getting in Vick's face and making him panic. On the last one, Florence came off the guy he was covering and delivered a good hit (which btw would've set up a 4th down even if it were caught).
Of course it's true we can't win giving up 400+ yards every week. But we also aren't playing the Patriots & Eagles every week - nobody really stops these teams. Hopefully the defense tightens up vs. the Bengals of the world.
Deamon
Footballguy
And the eagles are 2 or 3 plays away from being 4-1.As for the turnovers, I do give credit to the Bills for causing some of them.... but some of them were just bad bounces, silly mistakes. I'm not so sure the Bills have the defense to be a contender. I don't think its NEAR as bad as some Bills fans in here are worrying about though. You seem more knowledgable about your team then 99% of the people in here, and I agree that their D is doing enough right now to be where they need to be. Their defense is good enough to be a playoff team for sure, but they need those turnovers to keep this winning up. I guess the question really becomes can they keep up these turnovers, or are tipped ball ints, fumbles, etc often a sign of good luck. In this game there were a few plays that could have literally gone 50/50, yet they all seemed to go Buffalos way. I feel we played well enough to win the game.... philly moved the ball fairly easily, stopped buffalo (only in the second half)... a play or two goes an inch the other way and philly wins this game. Frustrating to lose so many games that way.
not sure how 2 plays could win the Eagles 3 more games.obviously, there is a lot of luck involved in the takeaway game but for many years, the Bills never had the type of players who could take advantage of the opportunities they were given. They had players who would normally just drop balls that came right to them. They rarely stripped the ball like they did to Avant yesterday. Just generally played soft defense. But, George Wilson is a HUGE upgrade from Donte Whitner in the playmaking department and I think he's also better in coverage. Nick Barnett is much better in coverage than Posluzny was and also a better playmaker.The front seven is doing a pretty good job of stopping the run this year, although they were too soft against Benson last week and gave up too many big gains to McCoy (and Vick) this week. The secondary is struggling but part of that also is related to the schemes they are playing as I think they are playing soft coverage and trying to force teams to move down the field in small chunks while trying to prevent any big plays. By design, this also appears to create more opportunities for turnovers as these short passes are easier to tip at the line and more likely to be picked off when there are more defenders in the area. McKelvin needs to be better but I think Florence has been very solid so far. They do have some depth at corner but would be better with a healthy McGee and Aaron Williams.My personal opinion is that I don't think the offense can continue to be this productive all year, but I also don't think the defense will continue to be this bad. The biggest weakness on the defense right now is the lack of a pass rush. They put some heat on Vick yesterday though. Merriman has to be able to beat one on one blocking, which he hasn't really been able to do much so far. I like that they are giving some opportunities to the young guys like Moats and Batten because Kelsay just isn't going to get it done on any kind of regular basis.They've had some tough matchups with the Patriots and Eagles which are going to elevate the yards/points allowed stats. Even the Raiders are moving the ball pretty well on people this year. Either way, maybe the takeaways continue. Seems to work pretty well for the Patriots, who also don't have a pass rush and are getting lit up by nearly every offense they face.
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Ghost Rider
Footballguy
True, but it worked for the Saints two years ago. They gave up a lot of yards, but created a lot of turnovers, and won the Super Bowl with that defense. Not saying the Bills will do the same thing, but it can be done.
Deamon
Footballguy
Ok THREE plays, not TWO haha. I agree that a lot of the turnovers are a result of that scheme you mentioned, as well as the coach, and the playmaking ability of your new players. But also has some luck in there which usually evens out by the end of the year. As for their offense, I agree they probably won't keep it up the whole year. Remember, half of their 2nd half games ARE in buffalo, and its not exactly warm and pass friendly there. Teams will also watch more tape and prepare for them better. They could however go 6-5 their last 11 games, which will put them at 10 wins and likely right in the hunt for a wild card spot setting up a game at Houston or at San Diego. That would be a fun game to watch.
