Get Your Butt Back To The Office (2 Viewers)

[nirad3]

Our big boss man has made it known that we won't ever be a fully-remote company, although we have folks that work remote.  I think he really just means that the people that live near our corporate office will eventually be back in-office 8-5 M-F.   That said, I think it's the folks like accounting, HR and support staff that need to be in the office.  Folks like me that travel a good bit and where it's totally obvious that WFH is just as good as being in the office may get a pass.  My boss moved to Boise about 8 months ago and isn't coming back.  If it ever got to the point where I was forced to come back 5 days a week I'd have serious issues with it.  My wife works on Tuesdays at Starbucks.  Best I could do is half-day Tuesdays in the office, but then again I like working from home on Tuesdays and Fridays.  

 

[offdee]

We opened a new office downtown KC with WeWork. Free kombucha and cappuccino. Foosball tables and Galaga machines. I hate it. 

This all sounds cool to new employees or outside employees until you're actually in that working environment.   All the games and cool stuff never get used because..

A) you're too busy to use them

OR

B) you get sideyed and look expendable if you actually have the time to use them, while the rest of the office is speed walking past you being busy and bad mouthing you under their breath for slacking.

 

[TLEF316]

This all sounds cool to new employees or outside employees until you're actually in that working environment.   All the games and cool stuff never get used because..

A) you're too busy to use them

OR

B) you get sideyed and look expendable if you actually have the time to use them, while the rest of the office is speed walking past you being busy and bad mouthing you under their breath for slacking.

Yeah, I just assumed any perks like this are some sort of trap to try and flush out slackers/people with not enough work to do.

A group of younger guys (mid-late 20's for the most part) in my office bought a putting mat a couple of months ago and put it down in the empty space between their cubes.

https://www.dickssportinggoods.com/p/maxfli-9-x-12-putting-system-16maxumxfltptt12xtrn/16maxumxfltptt12xtrn?sku=16567880&camp=CSESG_92700052586775049_pla_pla-339476428233&segment=&gclid=Cj0KCQjwwJuVBhCAARIsAOPwGAQUj9hhlgQgjLMJvFm9IbzcaZcNCEGdZSzL1sfiLfjVy0A8J3v5hBsaAnf6EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

They spend an inordinate amount of time using it.  They keep records and have a scoreboard. Its a bit much.  I'm all for taking little breaks during the day (I'm taking one as I type this) but this is really over the top.  I'd say there's someone hitting putts on it (either one of the 4 or someone else wandering over) at least 40-50% of the day. They're really setting themselves up for failure. The first time anyone F's up in a major way/doesn't hit a deadline, etc, they're just asking to have it thrown back in their faces.

 

[Scoresman]

I'd like to see a trend where if management wants people in the office, they should include people's commutes in the 8 hour day.  I'm more productive at home.  If you want me there fine, but pay for it.  

 

[offdee]

They're really setting themselves up for failure. The first time anyone F's up in a major way/doesn't hit a deadline, etc, they're just asking to have it thrown back in their faces.

Yep, exactly this.  It's an easy callout for management.

I'm gonna invest in giving you outlets to have some work life balance, but if you ever fail I better have never seen you wasting company's time on these things!

 

[Ron Swanson]

Yep, exactly this.  It's an easy callout for management.

I'm gonna invest in giving you outlets to have some work life balance, but if you ever fail I better have never seen you wasting company's time on these things!

Many years ago I received a nice dartboard in a cabinet for Christmas and had nowhere to hang it at home. But I had a  big office at work so hung it up there. Huuuge mistake.  It just attracted slackers into my office all day who would randomly walk in and start tossing darts.  I would eventually shoo them out but the worst offender was the CEO. In the long run it probably helped my career as we had a lot of discussion while he was in there and got to know each other very well but short term it killed my productivity.

 

[NutterButter]

We used to have a good group of putters.    Then a couple of them left to work elsewhere and that was that.  Good times.   Not as good as wfh, but still some good memories.  I'm in software development so the rules are a little different than you traditional corporate folks.   

 

[Pip's Invitation]

That said, I think it's the folks like accounting, HR and support staff that need to be in the office.  Folks like me that travel a good bit and where it's totally obvious that WFH is just as good as being in the office may get a pass. 

That's pretty much how it's played out where I work. Accounting, HR/payroll and maintenance are in the office every day and were at the height of the pandemic also. Most of the rest of us WFH all the time during the height of the pandemic and most days now. I come in between once a week and once a month, depending on what's going on, and it seems the majority of the non-accounting/HR/payroll/maintenance people are doing the same. We have a "work appropriately" policy where your in-office/WFH schedule is whatever works for your manager. 

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

That's pretty much how it's played out where I work. Accounting, HR/payroll and maintenance are in the office every day and were at the height of the pandemic also. Most of the rest of us WFH all the time during the height of the pandemic and most days now. I come in between once a week and once a month, depending on what's going on, and it seems the majority of the non-accounting/HR/payroll/maintenance people are doing the same. We have a "work appropriately" policy where your in-office/WFH schedule is whatever works for your manager. 

This is how we are doing it as well, although I think accounting is on some type of rotation.  I am supposed to be in 2-days per week, but I think that has only happened once so far since "coming back" in April.  Appointments, vacation, refusing to ever come in on a Friday, and days where people I want/need to see aren't going to be in has had me there once per week basically.  

 

[the moops]

That said, I think it's the folks like accounting, HR and support staff that need to be in the office. 

I don't know what you do, but in most instances, I would think accounting and HR could easily be remote all, if not most of the time.

 

[MAC_32]

I don't know what you do, but in most instances, I would think accounting and HR could easily be remote all, if not most of the time.

It depends on the organization's infrastructure. We lack it, so WFH is...challenging. Having the flexibility to do it if the situation dictates is a good thing, but it's not ideal in our environment. 

 

[Pip's Invitation]

I don't know what you do, but in most instances, I would think accounting and HR could easily be remote all, if not most of the time.

In our case, HR and accounting have access to proprietary/sensitive data/systems that they don’t want anyone accessing from outside the office.

 

[Apple Juice]

https://www.vox.com/recode/23161501/return-to-office-remote-not-working

Could have written this myself.  I think the big takeaway from the article - "They don’t necessarily hate the office. What they hate is not having a good reason to be there."

Lol I read this too - all the articles ragging on going into the office pop into my feed. This one hit the nail on the head.

 

[Desert_Power]

https://www.vox.com/recode/23161501/return-to-office-remote-not-working

Could have written this myself.  I think the big takeaway from the article - "They don’t necessarily hate the office. What they hate is not having a good reason to be there."

Agree with that takeaway. I don't have a permanent desk so there is just a free for all to find a spot. No idea who is in with me or where they are at unless I ask or physically see them. Takes time to setup and plug in. All of my personal stuff is locked up so I would have to walk somewhere else to get basic stuff or carry it in my bag.

Just utterly pointless. I've been going 3 days a week and only really am in the office for maybe 5-6 hours cumulative (2ish per day). 

 

[nirad3]

I don't know what you do, but in most instances, I would think accounting and HR could easily be remote all, if not most of the time.

I work for a company that represents investors in low-income housing.... and...

In our case, HR and accounting have access to proprietary/sensitive data/systems that they don’t want anyone accessing from outside the office.

... this may be the reason, hadn't really thought about why.

 

[Jobber]

Agree with that takeaway. I don't have a permanent desk so there is just a free for all to find a spot. No idea who is in with me or where they are at unless I ask or physically see them. Takes time to setup and plug in. All of my personal stuff is locked up so I would have to walk somewhere else to get basic stuff or carry it in my bag.

Just utterly pointless. I've been going 3 days a week and only really am in the office for maybe 5-6 hours cumulative (2ish per day). 

My company forced everyone in for about a year before Covid hit. I’d get there at about 8 every morning. Find a spot (hot/unassigned desks). The place would fill up pretty good. Then around 1 every afternoon, the place would empty out. Myself included. We’d all go home to beat the commute and “work from home” in the afternoon. The thing is, when you get home and fire up the laptop, it takes a while to figure out where you left off and get your head in the game.

With all the commuting and taking a person out of their game, so to speak, I think being in the office takes away from productivity. A lot. At least full time WFH has a solid 8+ hours undisturbed. No planning lunch and commute. No disruptive chatter, etc.

 

[-OZ-]

Nobody likes being around attorneys besides other attorneys?

I never minded being in the office. It was the commute time, money, and exhaustion that killed me.

and we have to wear clothes!

I think it's the folks like accounting, HR and support staff that need to be in the office. 

 labor and ethics attorney here. The only reason for us to be in the office is the face to face with leadership. But that’s really just antiquated thinking. Our systems are secure. 

Our boss just announced that we’ll be 40% in the office, 60% out. I think that’s reasonable and there is some synergy by working near people. The conversations had in the office and relationships are worth the commute, twice a week - especially with the parking lot half empty and less traffic. 

 

[the moops]

In our case, HR and accounting have access to proprietary/sensitive data/systems that they don’t want anyone accessing from outside the office.

What did they do during the height of the pandemic?

 

[Pip's Invitation]

What did they do during the height of the pandemic?

They came in. Pretty much no one else did. 

 

[MAC_32]

What did they do during the height of the pandemic?

One person per office on my team was there at all times starting mid April 2020. We were pernitted to increase to 2 July 2020 for practicality purposes. We have two offices of 5 people. 

Unless there was an emergency we did not access sensitive information remotely, so all work involving sensitive information needed done on your 1-2 days per week in the office. Additionally, in order to do some work remotely it needed to be modified while in the office so sensitive information was not visible on your home's unsecure connection. I'm sure this wasn't complied with, but it was necessary CYA policy. 

It doesn't help that we are a flat organization with archaic systems and manual processes, but even with something more sophisticated WFH is not practical in our world. 

 

[Capella]

The boomers are hanging on to the in-office thing. When they die off/go away, so will the in office days. Waste of everybody’s time. 

 

[AAABatteries]

One person per office on my team was there at all times starting mid April 2020. We were pernitted to increase to 2 July 2020 for practicality purposes. We have two offices of 5 people. 

Unless there was an emergency we did not access sensitive information remotely, so all work involving sensitive information needed done on your 1-2 days per week in the office. Additionally, in order to do some work remotely it needed to be modified while in the office so sensitive information was not visible on your home's unsecure connection. I'm sure this wasn't complied with, but it was necessary CYA policy. 

It doesn't help that we are a flat organization with archaic systems and manual processes, but even with something more sophisticated WFH is not practical in our world. 

Guess I don’t understand this.  Lots of companies accounting and HR do remote work.  I mean, I get how you might not be setup to do it but I don’t get how it couldn’t work with the right setup.

 

[AAABatteries]

The boomers are hanging on to the in-office thing. When they die off/go away, so will the in office days. Waste of everybody’s time. 

Anybody that works in corporate for a large company can verify - nobody wants to come back.  People will play the good corporate citizen and talk about how great it will be and how we need to build culture.  But just go to the office on a random day the last year and nobody is there.  NOBODY.  Our floors are ghost towns.

 

[belljr]

We actually have need to be in office for certain testing but it's not as much as management thinks it needs to be

 

[Capella]

Anybody that works in corporate for a large company can verify - nobody wants to come back.  People will play the good corporate citizen and talk about how great it will be and how we need to build culture.  But just go to the office on a random day the last year and nobody is there.  NOBODY.  Our floors are ghost towns.

My office day is just the 4 of us on our team and we discuss our projects…like we do every other day over Skype. Dumb. 

 

[AAABatteries]

My office day is just the 4 of us on our team and we discuss our projects…like we do every other day over Skype. Dumb. 

Look, I get everybody’s situation is different but I had 3 calls today.  One with some folks in Mexico and Brazil, one with folks in India and the last with my teammates in Atlanta.  Why the hell are you asking me to drive an hour to talk on a Teams call with people in Latin America or Asia?  Dumb.

 

[-OZ-]

In our case, HR and accounting have access to proprietary/sensitive data/systems that they don’t want anyone accessing from outside the office.

One person per office on my team was there at all times starting mid April 2020. We were pernitted to increase to 2 July 2020 for practicality purposes. We have two offices of 5 people. 

Unless there was an emergency we did not access sensitive information remotely, so all work involving sensitive information needed done on your 1-2 days per week in the office. Additionally, in order to do some work remotely it needed to be modified while in the office so sensitive information was not visible on your home's unsecure connection. I'm sure this wasn't complied with, but it was necessary CYA policy. 

It doesn't help that we are a flat organization with archaic systems and manual processes, but even with something more sophisticated WFH is not practical in our world. 

Seems crazy to me. I work for the most archaic, slow to change, organization in the US. Granted, we do have the money to invest in secure systems and security is a high priority. There’s nothing I work on on a daily basis that can’t be done at home. 
some organizations deal with TS stuff and that’s different, but that’s like missiles, major movements and nuclear code type stuff. Not PII or similar information. 

 

[FBG26]

Anybody that works in corporate for a large company can verify - nobody wants to come back.  People will play the good corporate citizen and talk about how great it will be and how we need to build culture.  But just go to the office on a random day the last year and nobody is there.  NOBODY.  Our floors are ghost towns.

"Nobody" is a bit of an overstatement, but probably that's true for a majority of office workers. Selfishly I'd rather have everybody in the office because I like to talk to people and I took my job specifically because of the short commute. I rarely go into the office only because nobody else is there so I might as well stay home. But if people don't come back in, I'll probably look for a new job this fall to see if I can find something where people are in person and actually interact in person. I realize they might not exist anymore and that I'm one of the few looking for that, but that's where I'm at. 

 

[AAABatteries]

"Nobody" is a bit of an overstatement, but probably that's true for a majority of office workers. Selfishly I'd rather have everybody in the office because I like to talk to people and I took my job specifically because of the short commute. I rarely go into the office only because nobody else is there so I might as well stay home. But if people don't come back in, I'll probably look for a new job this fall to see if I can find something where people are in person and actually interact in person. I realize they might not exist anymore and that I'm one of the few looking for that, but that's where I'm at. 

I thought that was an interesting part of that article.  There’s a decent percentage of people like you that would like to come in but they are finding that with fewer amenities and fewer people that the office experience sucks for them so now those folks are working remote more too.

 

[The Z Machine]

Accounting, HR/payroll

Funny, these are the folks that will be 100% virtual at my office. It's the engineers that have to do stuff in the lab and test stuff that are in. 

Basically engineering ate the vacated space left by accounting, HR, Supply Chain, etc.  They have no need to be in the office. 

 

[shuke]

Takes time to setup and plug in.

I get you guys don't like going into the office, but come on. It takes time to plug your computer in?

 

[Desert_Power]

I get you guys don't like going into the office, but come on. It takes time to plug your computer in?

Like half the desks don't actually have enough plugs when I try them or won't dock right to the monitors

 

[MAC_32]

Seems crazy to me. I work for the most archaic, slow to change, organization in the US. Granted, we do have the money to invest in secure systems and security is a high priority. There’s nothing I work on on a daily basis that can’t be done at home. 
some organizations deal with TS stuff and that’s different, but that’s like missiles, major movements and nuclear code type stuff. Not PII or similar information. 

I work in non-profit education, which is both slow to change and lacks the financial resources to do it even if leadership wants to (they do).

 

[offdee]

I get you guys don't like going into the office, but come on. It takes time to plug your computer in?

I think for some it's just the comfort and setup of your work station.   At home everything is in the right place, your desk chair is setup at the correct height, 2nd monitor on the preferred side, all other random supplies you use are waiting there for you, etc....basically you just sit down and work.  

When you go to the office now and have to use a different desk each time it's like going into a hotel room...you kinda are in a new space and need to get the lay of the land first and unpack before enjoying it (versus just coming home to your own space already setup to your preferences and relaxing)

Basically it's just an extra pain in the ### that's unneeded....add that to the list of driving, traffic, gas, unnecessary work conversations, and it all just gradually adds up to be one big annoyance.

 

[TLEF316]

It really just comes down to....if not everyone is there....whats the point of me being there?

Half the time I go in on our "mandatory" Wednesday and there's half a dozen people (all with far shorter commutes than me) that just decided to stay home. At that point I've wasted 3 hours of my day (90 minute train ride into NYC 2 x a week) and I feel like a complete and total sucker.

I've been slacking the past few weeks in terms of going in. I had a few Mondays out of the office (golf outings) and we obviously had the holiday.  Last week we had an offsite event on Thursday do nobody went in on Wednesday.  Add in the fact that I'm very busy at the moment (with work that I need to really concentrate on...without distraction) and I don't see any reason to deal with the commute. 

 

[AAABatteries]

I get you guys don't like going into the office, but come on. It takes time to plug your computer in?

Yeah, that seems crazy but like offdee said, having to find a spot and then get things plugged up and I can’t stand the way they position the monitors.  I like to have mine side by side and our workstations don’t, which sucks.

 

[coopersdad]

Back in the office for 2 weeks.  Tuesday and Wednesday only.  Pre-covid I'd bring in a 12 pack of Diet Coke for the week.  Over Covid gave up sodas, so now I bring in waters, flavored waters, etc along w/ protein bars and yogurts for snacks through out the day.

Coworker comes by my office yesterday and shows me a small bag of almonds that she bought from the vending machine.  Asks me to guess what it costs............I say 1.50?  Nope $3.00 now.  So we go to the 4 vending machines in our office to look at the new prices.

Can soda was 60 cents is now 1.50

Monster was 2.50 is now 4.00

Candy was 1.00 is now 2.00

Small bag of chips / gardettos was 1.00 is now 2.50

Needless to say the machines are pretty full............

 

[offdee]

Back in the office for 2 weeks.  Tuesday and Wednesday only.  Pre-covid I'd bring in a 12 pack of Diet Coke for the week.  Over Covid gave up sodas, so now I bring in waters, flavored waters, etc along w/ protein bars and yogurts for snacks through out the day.

Coworker comes by my office yesterday and shows me a small bag of almonds that she bought from the vending machine.  Asks me to guess what it costs............I say 1.50?  Nope $3.00 now.  So we go to the 4 vending machines in our office to look at the new prices.

Can soda was 60 cents is now 1.50

Monster was 2.50 is now 4.00

Candy was 1.00 is now 2.00

Small bag of chips / gardettos was 1.00 is now 2.50

Needless to say the machines are pretty full............

Well that's because there's less people in the office now to buy things.  I assume those machines have some sort of placement rental fee to be there so they need to somehow make enough money off of the purchases being so much less in quantity.  Makes total sense from a business perspective.

 

[Nugget]

More new office fun.  To print a document, I need to log of the VPN and WiFi and separately connect to a WiFi printer. Then I need to reconnect to both after I am finished. I will be in once a month, tops. 

Also fun - parking an Expedition on the 4th floor of a parking garage. 

 

[jobarules]

Back in the office for 2 weeks.  Tuesday and Wednesday only.  Pre-covid I'd bring in a 12 pack of Diet Coke for the week.  Over Covid gave up sodas, so now I bring in waters, flavored waters, etc along w/ protein bars and yogurts for snacks through out the day.

Coworker comes by my office yesterday and shows me a small bag of almonds that she bought from the vending machine.  Asks me to guess what it costs............I say 1.50?  Nope $3.00 now.  So we go to the 4 vending machines in our office to look at the new prices.

Can soda was 60 cents is now 1.50

Monster was 2.50 is now 4.00

Candy was 1.00 is now 2.00

Small bag of chips / gardettos was 1.00 is now 2.50

Needless to say the machines are pretty full............

I went to the office last week. Like everyone else said it was dead and I still took most meetings in Teams. Also, to your point there was no cafeteria in the building so had to go out for lunch. Went with a bunch of co workers. Lunch cost more than I'd like to spend and took 90 minutes lmfao. Then in the office there's nowhere to get coffee except one of those kiosks in the lobby. $3 for a cup of coffee.

Another thing I hated was I got used to working in silence in my home office. In the office, even with only a handful of people there, you hear everyone on the phone during their meetings. VERY distracting.

 

[Desert_Power]

More new office fun.  To print a document, I need to log of the VPN and WiFi and separately connect to a WiFi printer. Then I need to reconnect to both after I am finished. I will be in once a month, tops. 

Also fun - parking an Expedition on the 4th floor of a parking garage. 

A ratio I've been tracking is peoples vs printers on the floor. Usually more of the latter as there is one on each row.

 

[Scoresman]

I get you guys don't like going into the office, but come on. It takes time to plug your computer in?

Don't know about others, but getting set up where I work means unloading the laptop, crawling under the desk to plug it in,  and booting it up, going to the kitchen to make coffee, putting my lunch in the fridge, bull####ting with co-workers about the Warriors game last night or the crazy thing Biden said,  and then suddenly it's 45 minutes later when I'msitting down to start work. 

It's not hard to see how people are more productive at home.   

 

[MAC_32]

Well that's because there's less people in the office now to buy things.  I assume those machines have some sort of placement rental fee to be there so they need to somehow make enough money off of the purchases being so much less in quantity.  Makes total sense from a business perspective.

Probably sometimes, but certainly not always. Friend of mine does it and they just collect x% of sales with their smaller clients - how much depends on volume. I inherited our contract and I'll be curious when we can take it out to rfp if it really is a good deal, but on the surface it seems it - 70% of sales up to a capped amount and in exchange we are exclusive pepsi retailers with zero maintenace on our part outside of garbage. It's only a few grand most months, but any revenue stream with essentially no offsetting expenses is a win in my world.

 

[uwillbsoon]

It's been interesting to me. Last place I worked, owner wanted everyone in the office. He was among the laziest people I've ever met. So I think his reason was more that he couldn't work from home so he didn't think anyone else could. But he couldn't really work from the office either. He just couldn't work. I think he had ADD or something.

New gig is kind of the same. Owner doesn't like working from home. But he also doesn't really like working. He's not in the office more than six hours a day. But since he hates working from home, he wants people in the office. Most of the folks are in virtual meetings every day. So they complain about having to drive in and sit in a virtual meeting. And I agree with them. Doesn't really make sense

Throw in the fact that half the leadership team is remote because they live in another state and a lot of those serendipitous conversations with seasoned staff isn't happening anyway.

It's frankly illogical. Even better: both places expanded their office footprint in an effort to get people in the office. So they're paying more and seeing even fewer folks in the office.

And both are led by folks nearing or over sixty. So it's a "this is the way we've always done it"thing for both.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

Last place I worked, owner wanted everyone in the office. He was among the laziest people I've ever met. 

New gig is kind of the same. Owner doesn't like working from home. But he also doesn't really like working.

Seems like you have a "type." 

 

[offdee]

At this point, the places requiring people to come to the office are more than likely ones that are tied to a long term lease on the space and feel the need to show value in that, no matter how illogical it seems.

 

[dino259]

Yeah, that seems crazy but like offdee said, having to find a spot and then get things plugged up and I can’t stand the way they position the monitors.  I like to have mine side by side and our workstations don’t, which sucks.

What other way would they be than side by side? 

 

[belljr]

oh i still have my own space ----- for now

 

[The Z Machine]

It's been interesting to me. Last place I worked, owner wanted everyone in the office. He was among the laziest people I've ever met. So I think his reason was more that he couldn't work from home so he didn't think anyone else could. But he couldn't really work from the office either. He just couldn't work. I think he had ADD or something.

New gig is kind of the same. Owner doesn't like working from home. But he also doesn't really like working. He's not in the office more than six hours a day. But since he hates working from home, he wants people in the office. Most of the folks are in virtual meetings every day. So they complain about having to drive in and sit in a virtual meeting. And I agree with them. Doesn't really make sense

Throw in the fact that half the leadership team is remote because they live in another state and a lot of those serendipitous conversations with seasoned staff isn't happening anyway.

It's frankly illogical. Even better: both places expanded their office footprint in an effort to get people in the office. So they're paying more and seeing even fewer folks in the office.

And both are led by folks nearing or over sixty. So it's a "this is the way we've always done it"thing for both.

So dumb

 

[uwillbsoon]

Seems like you have a "type." 

I think owners have a type. My impression working for four different privately owned companies:a significant portion of people who start companies do so because they can't work for someone else. Usually that's because they're not good at doing. They're full of ideas and think every idea is fantastic (they aren't), but terrible at execution. So they don't last long in a role that requires execution.

Which is why it's kind of ironic they benefit the most from a company's success. They should because of the risk of starting a company. But every successful private company I've worked at had someone else that could translate the owner's vision into action. They're the ones that should be rewarded... But usually aren't.

Now this isn't a hard and fast rule by any measure, but it's been my experience. And I do also have a type. These are the companies where I can have the most impact.