Get Your Butt Back To The Office (2 Viewers)

[GroveDiesel]

I'll give it a listen, thanks for posting.

I was 100% work from office guy my whole career. WFH was always a PITA because I set up at the dining room table and had constant interruptions all day so I hated it. When COVID forced the issue, I made it clear with the wife and the dog, I was working & just happened to be at home. I was NOT at home and happened to be working. It actually went really well and as I kinda got used it, we changed our schedules to accommodate and I actually enjoyed it. One thing I was missing was a door to afford some privacy for calls and keep my loud voice contained. We addressed that and are not setting up two separate offices in our house to accommodate her needs and mine. We have a large, empty house (kids are gone) so we have the room.

And now my company is opening the building back up to any who want to come back  . I live 4 miles away from the office so it's hard for me to come up with any excuse (especially since I was "at the office" guy) that makes sense for me to stay home. I still want to go ahead and finish out an office for me so I have it available if needed but will probably go back soon full time.

Another interesting point made by in this podcast is that they could see a decrease in commercial real estate value and an increase in residential real estate as companies need less space for employees and employees want more space for home offices. In a market where housing is already in short supply, I could see that affecting housing prices even more than the 20% increase they forecast. 

All sorts of interesting questions off of that then like:

-how much will that hurt municipal tax bases?

-will companies compensate employees for the increased costs associated with home office space or will it be considered offsetting to commute costs and/or the “perk” of being able to wfh?

-how much of that commercial real estate can be converted for other uses?

-does it even reduce need for commercial real estate for companies? If Company A has employees wfh 3 days a week and in the office for 2, are they really going to have workers share desk space and condense office space, or will each person still have their own space that just sits unused 60% of the time?

 

[AAABatteries]

To give an example, I know someone who recently got a job with a large national insurance company. I don't know the exact details of her position, but it wasn't the mindless repetitive data entry or answering phones for $12 an hour - it was a 60k+ job with projects and deadlines. This division has been WFH for a few years, so they have systems in place. Here are a few things they do:

1) You worked a shift, and got 2 breaks and lunch at somewhat predetermined times. 

2) You use their equipment, not yours. Calls were through the computer, so you can't answer your cell as you're walking your dog.

3) Hardwired connection only. No wifi from your porch (or Starbucks).

4) If you seemed idle / weren't there for a call, there would be a "what's up?". Yes, you can go to the bathroom, but answering the door or having a ten-minute conversation with a neighbor was a no-no. Picking up your kid from school was out unless it was on your lunch.  

Yes, this does sound bad but 1. I'm not sure how many jobs and really like this and 2. I have no doubt if a company does this to an employee remote they do pretty much as bad in person.  It's just a crappy job regardless of the WFH aspect.

 

[AAABatteries]

Really good Freakanomics podcast episode on working from home.

One interesting thing from it: it’s argued that working from home is 50% less productive, but that a mix of wfh and office could actually still be beneficial.

I’m not sure the way they measured productivity is actually accurate or not, but that’s the argument made by the guy being interviewed.

Personally, I found that I actually work less hours by going into the office, even when accounting for commute time. I’m definitely more efficient working at the office than at home and create better work/life boundaries.

I will go back and listen to this later as I'm curious how they come up with 50%.  To me it seems dependent on the type of job.

As for your last paragraph - I think I touched on it earlier but for me this is exactly my experience.  I'm more efficient because of two things:  1. no distractions from office stuff and 2.  I can work during meetings while still listening.  Multitasking during in person meetings was kind of frowned upon - now nobody can see that I'm get real work done while Bob drones on about whatever on Teams.

 

[GroveDiesel]

I will go back and listen to this later as I'm curious how they come up with 50%.  To me it seems dependent on the type of job.

As for your last paragraph - I think I touched on it earlier but for me this is exactly my experience.  I'm more efficient because of two things:  1. no distractions from office stuff and 2.  I can work during meetings while still listening.  Multitasking during in person meetings was kind of frowned upon - now nobody can see that I'm get real work done while Bob drones on about whatever on Teams.

It wasn’t totally clear how they came up with the 50%. They did acknowledge the difficulty in even trying to define productivity. They also mentioned one study done of Chinese call center workers that showed an INCREASE in productivity with them working from home, though my guess is that they did have the heavy restrictions mentioned by several others here. 

 

[jwb]

Yes, this does sound bad but 1. I'm not sure how many jobs and really like this and 2. I have no doubt if a company does this to an employee remote they do pretty much as bad in person.  It's just a crappy job regardless of the WFH aspect.

The company is a major nationwide company consistently rated as one of the best to work for. I'd rather not give more details. 

But while it feels draconian to talk about, is it really? How is it all that different from having to be at the office from 9-5, having break at 10:30, lunch at 12:30, break at 3:00, and not able to just walk out whenever otherwise? That describes millions of mid level desk-type jobs that could easily become WFH.

The only real difference I can see is there's no in-office alert if you're not at your desk / keyboard. But I guarantee if you're constantly "missing" or chatting, you'd get called on it in the office too.

Is it being home (and thus maybe feeling a little invasive) that's the difference? That you can't do whatever you want in your own home? That is probably a big part of it. If nothing else, it's interesting. 

 

[acarey50]

But while it feels draconian to talk about, is it really? How is it all that different from having to be at the office from 9-5, having break at 10:30, lunch at 12:30, break at 3:00, and not able to just walk out whenever otherwise? That describes millions of mid level desk-type jobs that could easily become WFH.

I'm not really aware of a lot of desk type jobs that have that structured schedule that are not the type of position that requires certain coverages.

I usually see that kind of schedule in customer facing positions where you need coverage (retail, etc.), call centers where you need coverage (ie increased staff for peak hours, etc.) and manufacturing/warehouse work where you have a production schedule, etc. and really need to plan out the shifts.

The vast majority of "desk" jobs such as accounting, marketing, IT (back end, not help center) etc., at least at all of the companies I have worked for, have never needed this type of shift schedule, even for the hourly employees, so long as they took their breaks and took their lunch within the time frame prescribed by law, it was not a fixed schedule, as your day to day activity, meeting schedules, etc. would not be very conducive to that.

 

[culdeus]

I'm not really aware of a lot of desk type jobs that have that structured schedule that are not the type of position that requires certain coverages.

I usually see that kind of schedule in customer facing positions where you need coverage (retail, etc.), call centers where you need coverage (ie increased staff for peak hours, etc.) and manufacturing/warehouse work where you have a production schedule, etc. and really need to plan out the shifts.

The vast majority of "desk" jobs such as accounting, marketing, IT (back end, not help center) etc., at least at all of the companies I have worked for, have never needed this type of shift schedule, even for the hourly employees, so long as they took their breaks and took their lunch within the time frame prescribed by law, it was not a fixed schedule, as your day to day activity, meeting schedules, etc. would not be very conducive to that.

I don't get the sense that @jwb has the level of experience in the workforce to comment on the modern working area, or else needs to be looking for different roles. 

His worldview is shaped by something awfully different than anything anyone here has really ever encountered yet he insists on pushing a narrative that cubicle workers need to be chained to desks and monitored for when that chain runs slack. Then he continues to argue such a thing will continue to need to be increased when the overwhelming if not complete entirety of this thread has never even heard of such a monitoring type system employed in any context whatsoever.

 

[MAC_32]

For all the BS that we've all had to deal with for the last year plus, we should all be fighting to get something good out of it. We've certainly earned it.

In my case, the part that bothers me most is I don't mind working evenings at home if something comes up. It's because it's a rare occurrence. Now that we are going back to full time I no longer will do such work, so this is actually a negative. All cause HR.

 

[jobarules]

The company is a major nationwide company consistently rated as one of the best to work for. I'd rather not give more details. 

But while it feels draconian to talk about, is it really? How is it all that different from having to be at the office from 9-5, having break at 10:30, lunch at 12:30, break at 3:00, and not able to just walk out whenever otherwise? That describes millions of mid level desk-type jobs that could easily become WFH.

The only real difference I can see is there's no in-office alert if you're not at your desk / keyboard. But I guarantee if you're constantly "missing" or chatting, you'd get called on it in the office too.

Is it being home (and thus maybe feeling a little invasive) that's the difference? That you can't do whatever you want in your own home? That is probably a big part of it. If nothing else, it's interesting. 

Yeah I don't know a single person with scheduled breaks except for my wife who works for the city and has a contract. They still punch in and out.

 

[Standing Hampton]

I'm a teacher, so I've been "back at the office" since August, along with the students.

That whole WFH thing doesn't translate well into education.

 

[jwb]

I'm not really aware of a lot of desk type jobs that have that structured schedule that are not the type of position that requires certain coverages.

The vast majority of "desk" jobs such as accounting, marketing, IT (back end, not help center) etc., at least at all of the companies I have worked for, have never needed this type of shift schedule, even for the hourly employees, so long as they took their breaks and took their lunch within the time frame prescribed by law, it was not a fixed schedule, as your day to day activity, meeting schedules, etc. would not be very conducive to that.

I probably should have put "-ish" besides the times, or simply said "morning break / lunch / afternoon break". That's what I meant. 

 

[culdeus]

I do think this board skews to a median income of about 225k with household at 400 and 45 years old. That colors alot here. 

 

[jwb]

I don't get the sense that @jwb has the level of experience in the workforce to comment on the modern working area, or else needs to be looking for different roles. 

His worldview is shaped by something awfully different than anything anyone here has really ever encountered yet he insists on pushing a narrative that cubicle workers need to be chained to desks and monitored for when that chain runs slack. Then he continues to argue such a thing will continue to need to be increased when the overwhelming if not complete entirety of this thread has never even heard of such a monitoring type system employed in any context whatsoever.

I'm a self employed writer and business/marketing consultant (about 20 years now). I work for companies large and small. Before that, I was in sales and IT for a decade. I'm pretty good at seeing the big picture. 

This is simply interesting to me, and I've said over and over again this is my opinion as to where it's going. I don't necessarily agree with it (it's a reason I work for myself).

 

[jwb]

I do think this board skews to a median income of about 225k with household at 400 and 45 years old. That colors alot here. 

That was always the joke. We do seem to have a lot here that skews higher than average, so yes, that's part of it. 

 

[acarey50]

I probably should have put "-ish" besides the times, or simply said "morning break / lunch / afternoon break". That's what I meant. 

Well, considering those are things required by law, and to be taken within certain time frames of working hours, then this applies to every job. And, much like I said in my post you quoted, outside of certain industries/job types, these things aren't usually structured, they fit in to the flow of the work day.

 

[acarey50]

I do think this board skews to a median income of about 225k with household at 400 and 45 years old. That colors alot here. 

Other than the age where I'm just about there, I am way low on the median income, both individually and household - gonna have to step up my game

 

[The Z Machine]

Been going to the office pretty much the whole time and love it.  Though I have a 5 min commute and work in a new building that has a small gym, a full kitchen and a bar and I have my own office.  Based on many of these responses didn't realize how lucky I am.

Uh, yeah man.  Not many places have those perks.

 

[Buckna]

Been going to the office pretty much the whole time and love it.  Though I have a 5 min commute and work in a new building that has a small gym, a full kitchen and a bar and I have my own office.  Based on many of these responses didn't realize how lucky I am.

What is this, Mad Men?!?

 

[The Z Machine]

 If Company A has employees wfh 3 days a week and in the office for 2, are they really going to have workers share desk space and condense office space, or will each person still have their own space that just sits unused 60% of the time?

That's exactly what my company is doing.  Anyone deemed "remote" = 100% wfh or "flex" = 50-75% wfh gets no dedicated office or cube space.

We will have "hotel lobby" style seating, dedicated space for each project team or work group, but fewer desks than employees.  Likely 2 employees for every docking station.

We also have dedicated lab spaces for doing technical work. 

 

[DallasDMac]

Really good Freakanomics podcast episode on working from home.

One interesting thing from it: it’s argued that working from home is 50% less productive, but that a mix of wfh and office could actually still be beneficial.

I'm surprised to read this. This pretty much flies in the face of everything I have read/heard previously. I know personally that I get WAY more done WFH due t the complete lack of distractions. But I am admittedly an empty-nester, so that plays in to it a lot I imagine.

 

[Desert_Power]

  Anyone making 100k+ is not having their time card watched. 

They shouldn't, but I know a lot of people that make that much or more and have to suffer under insecure micro-management.

 

[rascal]

Other than the age where I'm just about there, I am way low on the median income, both individually and household - gonna have to step up my game

It all depends on where you live and lifestyle. 

 

[rascal]

I'm not sure what industry you are in, but I mean for the high paying jobs out there this is just not the case.  Anyone making 100k+ is not having their time card watched.  You are either on some level of incentive or commission bonus structure where if you don't produce you don't get paid, or if you can't deliver certain items on time with certain KPIs you are out on your ###.

Maybe in some service sector type jobs you need people chained to a desk, but in a world of projects driven into manufacturing or finance it's not that hard to identify the ####-offs and shed them.  Quickly.  

I'm a supervisor (10+ engineers working for me) and the biggest problem is training.  

 

[The Z Machine]

I'm a supervisor (10+ engineers working for me) and the biggest problem is training.  

How big is the company and how well established? If smaller, it's possible that there's more tribal knowledge and less documentation for best practices. 

In my company (large with decades leading the industry) one of the best ways to make a name for yourself was to create and give trainings on a topic where you had expertise. Say you have tribal knowledge and developed a best practice for documenting 2D stackups. Make that knowledge into a training and give it to your peers and especially to those with less experience. 

Then even if those that were thy experts leave the company, the training lives on. 

 

[rascal]

How big is the company and how well established? If smaller, it's possible that there's more tribal knowledge and less documentation for best practices. 

In my company (large with decades leading the industry) one of the best ways to make a name for yourself was to create and give trainings on a topic where you had expertise. Say you have tribal knowledge and developed a best practice for documenting 2D stackups. Make that knowledge into a training and give it to your peers and especially to those with less experience. 

Then even if those that were thy experts leave the company, the training lives on. 

Government, so yeah....big

 

[The Z Machine]

Government, so yeah....big

Maybe the training takes too long then.   

 

[belljr]

Government, so yeah....big

Greatest bean counting system in the world

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Our head of HR shared with the senior leadership a draft of "Teleworking Guidelines" that apparently will be distributed soon.  I believe that all she did was update some previous guidelines to account for what will soon be high demand for remote/hybrid work.  Our company is a privately held national REIT.  I wanted to post some excerpts/summaries of this policy, because it seems ridiculous in places to me, and in my view, at the very least creates a barrier to remote work and will cost us talent.  Note, that the policy won't really impact me -- I can pretty much do what I want.

Some key pieces:

• Individuals requesting formal teleworking arrangements must have exhibited above average performance, in accordance with the company’s performance appraisal process;
  
• a trial basis for the first three months, and may be discontinued, with or without reason, at any time (but will try for 30 day notice if possible);
  
• After equipment has been delivered, a designated representative will visit the employee’s home worksite to inspect for possible work hazards and suggest modifications. Repeat inspections will occur on an as-needed basis;
  
• Evaluation of the teleworker’s performance during the trial period will include daily interaction by phone, e-mail, and Microsoft Teams between the employee and the manager, and weekly face-to-face meetings to discuss work progress and problems. At the conclusion of the trial period the employee and manager will each complete an evaluation of the arrangement and make recommendations for continuance or modifications. Evaluation of the teleworker’s performance beyond the trial period will be consistent with that received by employees working at the office in both content and frequency but will focus on work output and completion of objectives rather than on time-based performance;
  
• An appropriate level of communication between the teleworker and supervisor will be agreed to as part of the discussion process and will be more formal during the trial period. After conclusion of the trial period, the manager and teleworker will communicate at a level consistent with employees working at the office or in a manner and frequency that seems appropriate for the job and the individuals involved.
  

Thoughts/Feedback on these?

 

[Pipes]

Our head of HR shared with the senior leadership a draft of "Teleworking Guidelines" that apparently will be distributed soon.  I believe that all she did was update some previous guidelines to account for what will soon be high demand for remote/hybrid work.  Our company is a privately held national REIT.  I wanted to post some excerpts/summaries of this policy, because it seems ridiculous in places to me, and in my view, at the very least creates a barrier to remote work and will cost us talent.  Note, that the policy won't really impact me -- I can pretty much do what I want.

Some key pieces:

• Individuals requesting formal teleworking arrangements must have exhibited above average performance, in accordance with the company’s performance appraisal process;
  
• a trial basis for the first three months, and may be discontinued, with or without reason, at any time (but will try for 30 day notice if possible);
  
• After equipment has been delivered, a designated representative will visit the employee’s home worksite to inspect for possible work hazards and suggest modifications. Repeat inspections will occur on an as-needed basis;
  
• Evaluation of the teleworker’s performance during the trial period will include daily interaction by phone, e-mail, and Microsoft Teams between the employee and the manager, and weekly face-to-face meetings to discuss work progress and problems. At the conclusion of the trial period the employee and manager will each complete an evaluation of the arrangement and make recommendations for continuance or modifications. Evaluation of the teleworker’s performance beyond the trial period will be consistent with that received by employees working at the office in both content and frequency but will focus on work output and completion of objectives rather than on time-based performance;
  
• An appropriate level of communication between the teleworker and supervisor will be agreed to as part of the discussion process and will be more formal during the trial period. After conclusion of the trial period, the manager and teleworker will communicate at a level consistent with employees working at the office or in a manner and frequency that seems appropriate for the job and the individuals involved.
  

Thoughts/Feedback on these?

Seems reasonable for the most part.  Employees home offices are considered worksites for workers compensation purpose so that piece makes sense.  Increased communication with remote employees is reasonable to since they aren't under direct supervision.  The only troubling piece imo is the "above average performance".  Doesn't seem right that remote employees would be held to higher standards than those in the office but it's hard to tell without knowing the company's performance appraisal process is?  Seems like alot of gray area with average vs above average.  

 

[Poke_4_Life]

Our head of HR shared with the senior leadership a draft of "Teleworking Guidelines" that apparently will be distributed soon.  I believe that all she did was update some previous guidelines to account for what will soon be high demand for remote/hybrid work.  Our company is a privately held national REIT.  I wanted to post some excerpts/summaries of this policy, because it seems ridiculous in places to me, and in my view, at the very least creates a barrier to remote work and will cost us talent.  Note, that the policy won't really impact me -- I can pretty much do what I want.

Some key pieces:

• Individuals requesting formal teleworking arrangements must have exhibited above average performance, in accordance with the company’s performance appraisal process;
  
• a trial basis for the first three months, and may be discontinued, with or without reason, at any time (but will try for 30 day notice if possible);
  
• After equipment has been delivered, a designated representative will visit the employee’s home worksite to inspect for possible work hazards and suggest modifications. Repeat inspections will occur on an as-needed basis;
  
• Evaluation of the teleworker’s performance during the trial period will include daily interaction by phone, e-mail, and Microsoft Teams between the employee and the manager, and weekly face-to-face meetings to discuss work progress and problems. At the conclusion of the trial period the employee and manager will each complete an evaluation of the arrangement and make recommendations for continuance or modifications. Evaluation of the teleworker’s performance beyond the trial period will be consistent with that received by employees working at the office in both content and frequency but will focus on work output and completion of objectives rather than on time-based performance;
  
• An appropriate level of communication between the teleworker and supervisor will be agreed to as part of the discussion process and will be more formal during the trial period. After conclusion of the trial period, the manager and teleworker will communicate at a level consistent with employees working at the office or in a manner and frequency that seems appropriate for the job and the individuals involved.
  

Thoughts/Feedback on these?

Seems reasonable, but a question about the 'above average performance'.  Is this a company that evaluates 75% of the employees as 'above average performance'?  (I've seen that before, it is not uncommon despite the absurdity of it.)

If most employees are truly rated as 'average' then I would push to move that level back to 'average', but that's just me.  

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

The home inspection seems like an overreach to me, although I get the workers' comp thing. So if a person refused or was unable to provide a space that meets whatever standard, the claim would be waived?

Stating an employee needs to be "above average" and requiring anything more than their typical communication seems like an issue to me as well.  

The fact that none of these things mattered for the last 18 months when everyone has been remote seems problematic to me too.

Do you all have formal policies with similar language?  

 

[Cold Dead Hands]

Our head of HR shared with the senior leadership a draft of "Teleworking Guidelines" that apparently will be distributed soon.  I believe that all she did was update some previous guidelines to account for what will soon be high demand for remote/hybrid work.  Our company is a privately held national REIT.  I wanted to post some excerpts/summaries of this policy, because it seems ridiculous in places to me, and in my view, at the very least creates a barrier to remote work and will cost us talent.  Note, that the policy won't really impact me -- I can pretty much do what I want.

Some key pieces:

• Individuals requesting formal teleworking arrangements must have exhibited above average performance, in accordance with the company’s performance appraisal process;
  
• a trial basis for the first three months, and may be discontinued, with or without reason, at any time (but will try for 30 day notice if possible);
  
• After equipment has been delivered, a designated representative will visit the employee’s home worksite to inspect for possible work hazards and suggest modifications. Repeat inspections will occur on an as-needed basis;
  
• Evaluation of the teleworker’s performance during the trial period will include daily interaction by phone, e-mail, and Microsoft Teams between the employee and the manager, and weekly face-to-face meetings to discuss work progress and problems. At the conclusion of the trial period the employee and manager will each complete an evaluation of the arrangement and make recommendations for continuance or modifications. Evaluation of the teleworker’s performance beyond the trial period will be consistent with that received by employees working at the office in both content and frequency but will focus on work output and completion of objectives rather than on time-based performance;
  
• An appropriate level of communication between the teleworker and supervisor will be agreed to as part of the discussion process and will be more formal during the trial period. After conclusion of the trial period, the manager and teleworker will communicate at a level consistent with employees working at the office or in a manner and frequency that seems appropriate for the job and the individuals involved.
  

Thoughts/Feedback on these?

As a manager, this seems like a pain in the ###. My evaluation of an employee’s ability to wfh is based on the productivity and responsiveness of the employee. If you get your work done and return my emails in a reasonable amount of time, I don’t give a shot if you binge watch The Wire while giving your dog a manicure.

 

[mr. furley]

corporate sent out a survey with the yes/no question:  "would you like to return to the office?"

i've talked to a lot of people about it in the last few months and can think of 2 out of dozens who said they wanted to go back to a physical office.

i bet the survey results are something like "88% of employees favor a return to the office".

 

[Thunderlips]

The home inspection seems like an overreach to me, although I get the workers' comp thing. So if a person refused or was unable to provide a space that meets whatever standard, the claim would be waived?

Stating an employee needs to be "above average" and requiring anything more than their typical communication seems like an issue to me as well.  

The fact that none of these things mattered for the last 18 months when everyone has been remote seems problematic to me too.

Do you all have formal policies with similar language?  

It might not have been seen as a viable permanent thing back then. I'm assuming that if a company is serious about make the move to a large portion of their workplace working remotely (something that will affect them going forward in regards to a physical footprint) they REALLy want to make sure that employees are capable of doing it as the norm.

If I'm the powers that be, I'm not sure I'd be willing to accept the simplistic "we like working from home...we want to do it" from the mouths of any employee who can do it. I want only those I can trust.  

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

So are your companies mandating vaccines?  Stating no masks if vaccinated and requiring proof?  No masks if vaxxed, but honor system?  Saying everyone can just come back and do whatever they want?

 

[The Z Machine]

Our head of HR shared with the senior leadership a draft of "Teleworking Guidelines" that apparently will be distributed soon.  I believe that all she did was update some previous guidelines to account for what will soon be high demand for remote/hybrid work.  Our company is a privately held national REIT.  I wanted to post some excerpts/summaries of this policy, because it seems ridiculous in places to me, and in my view, at the very least creates a barrier to remote work and will cost us talent.  Note, that the policy won't really impact me -- I can pretty much do what I want.

Some key pieces:

• Individuals requesting formal teleworking arrangements must have exhibited above average performance, in accordance with the company’s performance appraisal process;
  
• a trial basis for the first three months, and may be discontinued, with or without reason, at any time (but will try for 30 day notice if possible);
  
• After equipment has been delivered, a designated representative will visit the employee’s home worksite to inspect for possible work hazards and suggest modifications. Repeat inspections will occur on an as-needed basis;
  
• Evaluation of the teleworker’s performance during the trial period will include daily interaction by phone, e-mail, and Microsoft Teams between the employee and the manager, and weekly face-to-face meetings to discuss work progress and problems. At the conclusion of the trial period the employee and manager will each complete an evaluation of the arrangement and make recommendations for continuance or modifications. Evaluation of the teleworker’s performance beyond the trial period will be consistent with that received by employees working at the office in both content and frequency but will focus on work output and completion of objectives rather than on time-based performance;
  
• An appropriate level of communication between the teleworker and supervisor will be agreed to as part of the discussion process and will be more formal during the trial period. After conclusion of the trial period, the manager and teleworker will communicate at a level consistent with employees working at the office or in a manner and frequency that seems appropriate for the job and the individuals involved.
  

Thoughts/Feedback on these?

Ridiculous.  Treating adults like children. 

 

[BassNBrew]

So are your companies mandating vaccines?  Stating no masks if vaccinated and requiring proof?  No masks if vaxxed, but honor system?  Saying everyone can just come back and do whatever they want?

Come back and do want you want.  Not worth the headache fighting the battle when the losers will be those who aren't vaccinated.  I also don't want my customers to be able to identify my less educated employees.

 

[East Coast Bias]

So are your companies mandating vaccines?  Stating no masks if vaccinated and requiring proof?  No masks if vaxxed, but honor system?  Saying everyone can just come back and do whatever they want?

We have to request in writing to go no mask and show proof of vaccination to be approved.

 

[The General]

First business travel since March 2020. Company is figuring out how to handle it. Kind of a cluster now but this was unapproachable until, really this trip.

 

[The General]

Our head of HR shared with the senior leadership a draft of "Teleworking Guidelines" that apparently will be distributed soon.  I believe that all she did was update some previous guidelines to account for what will soon be high demand for remote/hybrid work.  Our company is a privately held national REIT.  I wanted to post some excerpts/summaries of this policy, because it seems ridiculous in places to me, and in my view, at the very least creates a barrier to remote work and will cost us talent.  Note, that the policy won't really impact me -- I can pretty much do what I want.

Some key pieces:

• Individuals requesting formal teleworking arrangements must have exhibited above average performance, in accordance with the company’s performance appraisal process;
  
• a trial basis for the first three months, and may be discontinued, with or without reason, at any time (but will try for 30 day notice if possible);
  
• After equipment has been delivered, a designated representative will visit the employee’s home worksite to inspect for possible work hazards and suggest modifications. Repeat inspections will occur on an as-needed basis;
  
• Evaluation of the teleworker’s performance during the trial period will include daily interaction by phone, e-mail, and Microsoft Teams between the employee and the manager, and weekly face-to-face meetings to discuss work progress and problems. At the conclusion of the trial period the employee and manager will each complete an evaluation of the arrangement and make recommendations for continuance or modifications. Evaluation of the teleworker’s performance beyond the trial period will be consistent with that received by employees working at the office in both content and frequency but will focus on work output and completion of objectives rather than on time-based performance;
  
• An appropriate level of communication between the teleworker and supervisor will be agreed to as part of the discussion process and will be more formal during the trial period. After conclusion of the trial period, the manager and teleworker will communicate at a level consistent with employees working at the office or in a manner and frequency that seems appropriate for the job and the individuals involved.
  

Thoughts/Feedback on these?

These rules are obviously designed to make sure Bob isn’t jerking off all week, but the work would ultimately show this after awhile.

 

[The General]

I do think this board skews to a median income of about 225k with household at 400 and 45 years old. That colors alot here. 

Everyone is also 6’3”, sinewy muscled, and a scratch golfer.

 

[TLEF316]

If you're getting your work done, it really shouldn't matter where you sit.

I will say that pre-COVID, I definitely noticed that the people I worked with (many of whom had a scheduled WFH day once a week) always just happened to be "swamped" with work the day after their WFH day.  And then some of that work would fall to other people (including me) while they tried to catch up. I think a lot of people treated their WFH day as a de-facto vacation day.

15 months later, I like to think that a lot of people have broken that habit. If they haven't, I'm sure it would have been noticed by now.

But every job is different. And every person is different.

 

[FBG26]

If you're getting your work done, it really shouldn't matter where you sit.

I will say that pre-COVID, I definitely noticed that the people I worked with (many of whom had a scheduled WFH day once a week) always just happened to be "swamped" with work the day after their WFH day.  And then some of that work would fall to other people (including me) while they tried to catch up. I think a lot of people treated their WFH day as a de-facto vacation day.

15 months later, I like to think that a lot of people have broken that habit. If they haven't, I'm sure it would have been noticed by now.

But every job is different. And every person is different.

I recently asked my wife how long do you think I can go without working before I get fired. She said "well, it's been 15 months so far so at least that long". To be fair, you said a lot of people have broken the habit, not everyone...

 

[Judge Smails]

So 3 members of my sales team have elected to not get vaccines. Out of 50. They can’t travel for our summer sales training which is now in person.  Can’t go to our big industry trade show which has mandated proof of vaccinations. Can’t travel on-site to customers with other members who are vaccinated. HR nightmare. I’d fire them if I could. Can’t do their job. Or electing not to

 

[Judge Smails]

Everyone is also 6’3”, sinewy muscled, and a scratch golfer.

Only 6’1” here…

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

So 3 members of my sales team have elected to not get vaccines. Out of 50. They can’t travel for our summer sales training which is now in person.  Can’t go to our big industry trade show which has mandated proof of vaccinations. Can’t travel on-site to customers with other members who are vaccinated. HR nightmare. I’d fire them if I could. Can’t do their job. Or electing not to

Is your company requiring proof of vax?  What kind of company is it? Industry/size?

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

We have to request in writing to go no mask and show proof of vaccination to be approved.

What kind of company is it? Industry/size?

 

[East Coast Bias]

What kind of company is it? Industry/size?

$3B industrial products company. Corporate HQ.

 

[The Z Machine]

So 3 members of my sales team have elected to not get vaccines. Out of 50. They can’t travel for our summer sales training which is now in person.  Can’t go to our big industry trade show which has mandated proof of vaccinations. Can’t travel on-site to customers with other members who are vaccinated. HR nightmare. I’d fire them if I could. Can’t do their job. Or electing not to

So their commission will be very low and then you have a reason to fire them. 

 

[Sand]

Our head of HR shared with the senior leadership a draft of "Teleworking Guidelines" that apparently will be distributed soon.  I believe that all she did was update some previous guidelines to account for what will soon be high demand for remote/hybrid work.  Our company is a privately held national REIT.  I wanted to post some excerpts/summaries of this policy, because it seems ridiculous in places to me, and in my view, at the very least creates a barrier to remote work and will cost us talent.  Note, that the policy won't really impact me -- I can pretty much do what I want.

Some key pieces:

• Individuals requesting formal teleworking arrangements must have exhibited above average performance, in accordance with the company’s performance appraisal process;
  
• a trial basis for the first three months, and may be discontinued, with or without reason, at any time (but will try for 30 day notice if possible);
  
• After equipment has been delivered, a designated representative will visit the employee’s home worksite to inspect for possible work hazards and suggest modifications. Repeat inspections will occur on an as-needed basis;
  
• Evaluation of the teleworker’s performance during the trial period will include daily interaction by phone, e-mail, and Microsoft Teams between the employee and the manager, and weekly face-to-face meetings to discuss work progress and problems. At the conclusion of the trial period the employee and manager will each complete an evaluation of the arrangement and make recommendations for continuance or modifications. Evaluation of the teleworker’s performance beyond the trial period will be consistent with that received by employees working at the office in both content and frequency but will focus on work output and completion of objectives rather than on time-based performance;
  
• An appropriate level of communication between the teleworker and supervisor will be agreed to as part of the discussion process and will be more formal during the trial period. After conclusion of the trial period, the manager and teleworker will communicate at a level consistent with employees working at the office or in a manner and frequency that seems appropriate for the job and the individuals involved.
  

Thoughts/Feedback on these?

If you have enough managers to do all this then you have too many managers.  They can just cut the budget and absorb the productivity loss by firing 1/3 of the management staff.