Get Your Butt Back To The Office (2 Viewers)

[tonydead]

I work for the government. We had a zoom call the other day in which they said: 1) they are still formulating a plan for office return; 2) the plan would be phased so that not everyone would have to immediately go back; 3) we would get 30 days notice before needing to return to the office; and 4) pre-pandemic work-from-home policies were being reevaluated and were likely to become more permissive going forward.

Putting all that together I’m pretty sure I’m never going to the office again.

So true. 

We co-locate with our government clients. Some of my counterparts I havent seen in over a year. I havent missed a day, and we were full back to work within 4-6 weeks of this thing starting (masks and social distancing).  We've been back 100% without mask or social distancing for over a month now. They still cant find their way back to the office.  . The craziest part is they approve our Covid plan making sure its compliant with the latest guidance. They approved us full back to work, but, cant figure out how to do it themselves.  

 

[Punxsutawney Phil]

One of the benefits of going into an office is the stuff you over hear.  I had the benefit over the years of sitting next to 3d modelers, and marketing.  Neither are my particular field, but I have definitely picked up useful knowledge.

 

[bigbottom]

This is already happening in Texas. 

If this is about Houston Methodist, there are tons of other hospitals in the area that don’t mandate vaccinations, and they are hiring. So I wouldn’t necessarily say that the individuals who walked out are losing their livelihood. 

 

[JaxBill]

Deloitte will allow its 20,000 UK employees to choose how often they come into the office, if at all, after the pandemic, making it the latest firm to throw out the rulebook and embrace ultra-flexible working.

The accounting firm said it would let staff decide “when, where and how they work” following the success of remote working during the Covid crisis. While the company has offered more flexible working since 2014, the latest announcement will mean ditching its office-focused approach once the final phase of lockdown restrictions are lifted next month.

 

[JaxBill]

So a month ago we were basically set on closing all of our offices including 2 floors in MN. Everyone wanted WFH. Including developers. But of course they wanted meeting space. Would have cost us almost as much doing the WeWork thing. I think we are going to keep the offices and have everyone come in a minimum of 1-2 days a week. 
Those refusing to get vaccinated have made career limiting moves. We’ve seen every excuse. Senior leaders who can’t come to meetings, meet with customers, travel, go to conferences. Just doing zoom.  CEO getting pissed now. They won’t last. If you’re a 50 year old male, nobody is having kids, the autism threat angle from the shot is not working. Nor is the “Everybody else is vaccinated so I’m good” nor “I’ve had COVID so I don’t need the shot”. Our customers (hospitals) require visitors to be vaccinated. That’s your job. All these people will be gone soon. But as soon as their favorite act has a concert they want to go to they will be vaccinated. Watch. Strong principals

Maybe they're just using the vaccinations as a delaying tactic while they find a permanently WFH gig?

 

[Cowboysfan8]

If their job is to be around people, sure. 

Absolutely. Unless for medical reasons including pregnant women. 

Seems crazy

 

[culdeus]

The real signal to change is not having a designated office.  More like a bullpen or whatever you want.  Companies at that point have chosen their plan.  

 

[Judge Smails]

Maybe they're just using the vaccinations as a delaying tactic while they find a permanently WFH gig?

100%.  And for those with a terrible commute I get it.  Companies are going to have to be flexible.  Retain company culture with at least a day or two a week in the office.  WFH for the rest.  Something like that.  If you can't meet with customers or colleagues face to face due to COVID policies requiring vaccination then I have no need for you in Sales. It's all a choice and I respect that.  They have the choice to work elsewhere.

 

[Judge Smails]

The real signal to change is not having a designated office.  More like a bullpen or whatever you want.  Companies at that point have chosen their plan.  

The irony is that the bullpen approach isn't saving much from an office.  We pay $500K a year for 2 floors in MN.  We looked at just getting conference room space for when teams wanted/needed to get together.  Came out to $300K.  But then they would have to pay travel expense (I guess mileage, food, etc) and it was basically a wash. So not as much cost savings as people think, especially when you have to pay the cost to move stuff around.

The cat is out of the bag.  Engineers are getting hired from anywhere and being told they don't have to move.  Have the upper hand. We'll see.  Healthcare is already turned back from huge telehealth to brick and mortar office visits.  Everybody thought telehealth usage was here to stay.  It wasn't.  We'll see about permanent WFH

 

[TLEF316]

We've still got some holdouts in our office. 1 in particular who isn't coming into the office to work yet (and I presume isn't vaccinated, as he's been wearing a mask when he stops by) but has come in for a couple of happy hours/dinners 

He's got young kids and a long commute,  so I get it. But at some point, they're gonna lean on him and he's going to have to make a decision. 

 

[culdeus]

The irony is that the bullpen approach isn't saving much from an office.  We pay $500K a year for 2 floors in MN.  We looked at just getting conference room space for when teams wanted/needed to get together.  Came out to $300K.  But then they would have to pay travel expense (I guess mileage, food, etc) and it was basically a wash. So not as much cost savings as people think, especially when you have to pay the cost to move stuff around.

The cat is out of the bag.  Engineers are getting hired from anywhere and being told they don't have to move.  Have the upper hand. We'll see.  Healthcare is already turned back from huge telehealth to brick and mortar office visits.  Everybody thought telehealth usage was here to stay.  It wasn't.  We'll see about permanent WFH

Insurance is a problem. It tends to have geography limitations for networks.  Can't hire someone in Maine for a job in Arizona. 

 

[Brony]

Recently, I got an unprompted salary raise around the same time that I was told that our new policy is 3 days per week minimum in the office.  Strange timing to say the least.   If the new policy was 5 days in the office, I'd be looking for something new pronto.  But while 3 days isn't great, the salary raise does keep me around longer. 

 

[Pip's Invitation]

Finally got some direction on how my employer is going to handle WFH starting in the fall. We are going to follow GM's "Work Appropriately" model. What that means is that each employee will have a plan tailored to them, based on what works for them and their manager. Some people will be WFH all the time, some people will be in office all the time and some people will be hybrid. 

Once a plan for everyone has been created, then decisions will be made about any changes to our workspace. We own our property, so it would be more about reconfiguring our space as opposed to reducing it. 

I expect I will be hybrid with more WFH than not. Maybe 1 or 2 days a week in the office. But we'll see. 

 

[trader jake]

If this is about Houston Methodist, there are tons of other hospitals in the area that don’t mandate vaccinations, and they are hiring. So I wouldn’t necessarily say that the individuals who walked out are losing their livelihood. 

If a hospital has a large percentage of unvaccinated employees, that seems like a health care system I'd avoid (if possible).

 

[Jobber]

Edited.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

Edited.

 

[jobarules]

Finally heard we are gonna be on a hybrid plan, in the office 1-2 days a week starting some time after Labor Day.

 

[culdeus]

I mean my work happens very early AM interfacing with Europe and very late PM interfacing with Asia and calm between.  

There was a lot of WFH in my role before, but I'd rarely WFH just due to the fact that I have kids to drop off.  I think the tipping point will be school restarting, as soon as that happens as normal you'll see a lot more people in office, but I nearly certainly won't be heading in early to take a con call with Europe anymore.  

 

[BigJim®]

People are just going to leave. They don’t have to do this anymore. Idiotic management. 

All acquisitions are different, but interesting way to avoid severance payments if layoff of redundancies were part of the plan. 

 

[The Z Machine]

The real signal to change is not having a designated office.  More like a bullpen or whatever you want.  Companies at that point have chosen their plan.  

I'm helping to layout the new office plan and most people that will come into the office will work in a "clubhouse" that is a mix of lab, desk, storage for that project group. Everyone else will "hot desk" in the flex cubes. No one but the President of the business unit gets an office, although there will be a "leadership conference room" that only Directors and above can book.  Teardown and rebuild of walls won't happen for another year, so we'll see if this sticks...

 

[The Z Machine]

Basically our business model had spanked them for two decades and its being discarded.  The next two weeks will be interesting

You gonna hang out your own shingle?

 

[nightmare]

Unrelated to Covid, but on topic.  Our company was acquired and my property managers were always WFH.  New company bought us out on July 1 and new management just issued an edict that WFH ends August 1 and that everyone is expected to be in the office from 9:00 to 5:30.  Now we will still will have a lot of field work that will get everyone out of the office, however the new head honcho will probably implement his google calendar requirement such that you keep everyone informed of your exact whereabouts when you are not in the office.  I was told to drop the WFH cancelation turd on Friday.  Some of my people will be looking at 40-50 mile one way commutes and aren't too happy.  Most of our work is accomplished via phone, on the web, or at the managed property.  My new business comes from their connections or phone ins from our web presence.  The reason given for the office requirement was three fold.  

1) It's a more professional way to operate.

2) We bought this huge office as part of the acquisition and don't want it sitting empty.

3) If GM, VP, and owner have to go to the office every day, so does everyone else. 

Pay cuts likely coming this week.  It's been 18 years since we've had a PM leave for any reason except for retirement.  The acquiring company has been a revolving door for those 20 years.  As a side note, the acquiring company was larger than us 20 years ago.  We have grown 10x during that time and were 60% bigger than they were even though they purchased a firm representing about 40% of their current business.  Basically our business model had spanked them for two decades and its being discarded.  The next two weeks will be interesting.

Run. As quick as you can. You know in your gut it's what you should do.

Do not let fear of the unknown stop you.

 

[McBokonon]

People are just going to leave. They don’t have to do this anymore. Idiotic management. 

I turned down an offer from a consulting firm to stay with my company. The consulting firm would have been about 10% more in salary but they want people in the office. My current place doesn’t care. 10% isn’t enough and I’m sure I’m not alone.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

Edited.

 

[E Street Brat]

I'm hoping the "Delta" will send us back home. But at least employees will have to drop dead at their desks before that happens.  

 

[nirad3]

First "official" back-to-office day for me.  For a job that I landed during COVID, so I've only been to the office a handful of times.

Waking up in time to get showered and in my seat by 8:30am was a challenge, especially after a long weekend at a college reunion.

Not being able to mosey around my house, check on my kids, sit and watch TV for a few minutes, etc.... kinda sucks.

At first I was looking forward to some office time, now I'm already bored at 10:30am and wishing I was back at home. :(  

 

[bigbottom]

My work just switched to you have to show proof of vaccination if you want to go maskless in the office (it was honor system before).

 

[NutterButter]

My work just switched to you have to show proof of vaccination if you want to go maskless in the office (it was honor system before).

That's gonna be a little awkward for folks that were fibbing and still won't get the shot.  

 

[belljr]

9/22 is our return to office. WFH options still be worked out

 

[Tick]

4 days home, 1 at the office per week.  They'll supply one office, the other is up to me... I guess I need to contact IT to choose a monitor and dock that I'll pay for, but that won't make them freak out.

 

[Judge Smails]

My work just switched to you have to show proof of vaccination if you want to go maskless in the office (it was honor system before).

love this

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Started a new job on June 1 with an organization that's been fully remote since the pandemic started. They started bringing people back on a hybrid schedule last week, but I was on a two-week vacation, so my first day in the office will be next Monday. I think the office is mostly vaccinated, but I have heard a couple people mention that there are holdouts. The official policy is what we're seeing a lot these days -- very few rules if you're vaxxed, lots of rules if you're not -- but it's on the honor system so I wonder if the unvaxxed will 'fess up.

I suspect that management either doesn't want the hassle of having to take a hard line (this is Miami, so it's certainly possible there will be some hard-core anti-vaxxers) or maybe they don't feel like they can do it without full FDA approval. Initially I wasn't too worried, but with the Delta variant and spiking numbers in Florida I feel like I may need to be a little more vocal. With two unvaccinated kids at home and increasing reports of breakthrough infections, I'm not freaked out the way I might have been six months ago, but I would also really prefer not to bring Covid home from the office. I'll assess the situation when I'm back next week.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

My work just switched to you have to show proof of vaccination if you want to go maskless in the office (it was honor system before).

Interesting. Any pushback? How many employees? As I said in my previous post, I may start asking my new employer some questions about their honor system.

Funny story: My previous employer brought us all back to the office full-time as of May 1 (which is just one of the many reasons they're my previous employer). One of my coworkers who had been fully vaxxed since January lied about his status in the other direction because it allowed him an extra month of WFH.   (I kind of wished I had done the same, but by that point I already had one foot out the door so I didn't want to stir up any trouble)

 

[bigbottom]

Interesting. Any pushback? How many employees? As I said in my previous post, I may start asking my new employer some questions about their honor system.

Funny story: My previous employer brought us all back to the office full-time as of May 1 (which is just one of the many reasons they're my previous employer). One of my coworkers who had been fully vaxxed since January lied about his status in the other direction because it allowed him an extra month of WFH.   (I kind of wished I had done the same, but by that point I already had one foot out the door so I didn't want to stir up any trouble)

Just announced yesterday, so I haven’t really heard anything yet. But I’m not exactly sure how you would articulate pushback. Because the policy isn’t changing - if you’re vaccinated, you don’t have to wear a mask, and if you’re not, you do. The change is you now have to prove you’re vaccinated to go maskless. Not sure how you complain about that without coming off like you’ve been lying all along.

 

[Cold Dead Hands]

Just announced yesterday, so I haven’t really heard anything yet. But I’m not exactly sure how you would articulate pushback. Because the policy isn’t changing - if you’re vaccinated, you don’t have to wear a mask, and if you’re not, you do. The change is you now have to prove you’re vaccinated to go maskless. Not sure how you complain about that without coming off like you’ve been lying all along.

“Hey, I’ve been lying and now you caught me. I am outraged that you would do this to me!”

 

[Murph]

“Hey, I’ve been lying and now you caught me. I am outraged that you would do this to me!”

This could be a George storyline in a Seinfeld reboot.

 

[McBokonon]

This could be a George storyline in a Seinfeld reboot.

“Oh, you asked if I had the vaccine? I thought you asked if I had the caffeine. Having just finished up my regular order from Starbucks, which is a double caramel macchiato, I obviously answered yes. Have you had the caramel macchiato? It’s delightful. Really gets you going, and it’s the one indulgence I allow myself. You have to treat yourself sometimes or you’ll go crazy in this topsy, turvy world. Anyway, I’m sure you’re familiar with how coffee works. Tell you what - How about I go get that vaccine right now? Can I bring you back anything? A latte, perhaps? No? OK. Boy, sorry for the confusion, very embarrassing. Anyway…uh, off I go!”

 

[Steve Tasker]

Interesting. Any pushback? How many employees? As I said in my previous post, I may start asking my new employer some questions about their honor system.

Funny story: My previous employer brought us all back to the office full-time as of May 1 (which is just one of the many reasons they're my previous employer). One of my coworkers who had been fully vaxxed since January lied about his status in the other direction because it allowed him an extra month of WFH.   (I kind of wished I had done the same, but by that point I already had one foot out the door so I didn't want to stir up any trouble)

We require proof of vaccination to walk around the office unmasked.  ~70-person company.  We have 4 people, I believe, who are unvaxxed at this point, still walking around with masks.  I assume they have their own reasons for it, though I certainly haven't asked them.

I do know of two people in the office who very vocally did not want the vaccine, but both have done so strictly so they don't have to wear masks around all day.  They'll make occasional jabs about it, and both complained a bit, but ultimately seem fine with it. 

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Started a new job on June 1 with an organization that's been fully remote since the pandemic started. They started bringing people back on a hybrid schedule last week, but I was on a two-week vacation, so my first day in the office will be next Monday. I think the office is mostly vaccinated, but I have heard a couple people mention that there are holdouts. The official policy is what we're seeing a lot these days -- very few rules if you're vaxxed, lots of rules if you're not -- but it's on the honor system so I wonder if the unvaxxed will 'fess up.

I suspect that management either doesn't want the hassle of having to take a hard line (this is Miami, so it's certainly possible there will be some hard-core anti-vaxxers) or maybe they don't feel like they can do it without full FDA approval. Initially I wasn't too worried, but with the Delta variant and spiking numbers in Florida I feel like I may need to be a little more vocal. With two unvaccinated kids at home and increasing reports of breakthrough infections, I'm not freaked out the way I might have been six months ago, but I would also really prefer not to bring Covid home from the office. I'll assess the situation when I'm back next week.

Update: Today was my first official day in the office. They haven't given us any details yet, but it sounds like because of the Delta variant they will be tightening things up a little. I suspect that will mean slightly stricter masking rules and that the aforementioned honor system will be out the window.

I felt very encouraged by the fact that they're taking this seriously and prioritizing our health.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

Today we were told that, effective tomorrow, due to the issues with Delta, anyone in the office who is not fully vaccinated will have to wear a mask all the time, even when at their desk. 

In other words, if you're not vaccinated, we're going to make your life miserable in hopes that you get the vaccine. We're a medical publishing company, so you wouldn't think we'd have people dragging their feet, but apparently there are some. 

Most people are still at home; for now, we can come and go as we please and don't need to mask up if we are vaccinated. In the fall, we will have a more formal schedule; everyone who wants to do any WFH needs to submit their request by the end of the month. I put in for one day in/four days home per week. 

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

I'm lucky in that I am a market rep so I am out and about in my car 5-6 hours a day. I used to have to go to our office in VA once a week but that stopped when this all started. 

We were set for the office folks to go back to the office at the end of this month but that has just been postponed due to Delta. 

We have been required to show proof of vaccination. We have been told that essentially you need to get vaccinated unless its a religious or health issue and even then I think they will can you if you don't comply. 

I'm most concerned for our kids. My kids, your kids, everyone's kids. They need to get back to regular school and have it be safe without the need for masks. My youngest REALLY struggled with school last year. We cant do another year like that. 

 

[Sand]

That's gonna be a little awkward for folks that were fibbing and still won't get the shot.  

No doubt.  In our office that would have cascade effects and may result in being let go.  Lying like this is a bad idea here.

---

Our office went back to masking for everyone.  Terrible decision.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

I'm most concerned for our kids. My kids, your kids, everyone's kids. They need to get back to regular school and have it be safe without the need for masks. My youngest REALLY struggled with school last year. We cant do another year like that. 

Curious: Why is it so important that your kids be in school without masks?

(To put my cards on the table, I am absolutely with you in terms of the need for full-time, in-person schools. With masks, I'm leaning in favor of them but want to learn more. We're in Florida, so there is zero chance the schools will have a mandate, which means this is more a personal decision about what to do with my own kids.)

 

[jobarules]

Curious: Why is it so important that your kids be in school without masks?

(To put my cards on the table, I am absolutely with you in terms of the need for full-time, in-person schools. With masks, I'm leaning in favor of them but want to learn more. We're in Florida, so there is zero chance the schools will have a mandate, which means this is more a personal decision about what to do with my own kids.)

I definitely noticed a change in my son's behavior due to masks and remote learning especially in a new school. He became more withdrawn and isolated. It was sad to see. Ever since school ended and he stopped needing to wear a mask and start playing more sports and being around kids without masks I noticed him returning back to normal. I would think the damage to younger children just learning to form relationships is even worse.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

I definitely noticed a change in my son's behavior due to masks and remote learning especially in a new school. He became more withdrawn and isolated. It was sad to see. Ever since school ended and he stopped needing to wear a mask and start playing more sports and being around kids without masks I noticed him returning back to normal. I would think the damage to younger children just learning to form relationships is even worse.

Interesting, thanks for sharing that. I view remote learning and masks as being two totally distinct things, and sometimes find myself annoyed at the way they are conflated in our public discourse (often for political reasons). But I also recognize that everyone's experiences are different. Both of my sons are on various degrees of the autism spectrum, and while they don't have this issue, I've heard from other parents that masks compound their kids' difficulties with reading other people. And I could certainly imagine how masks would make acclimating to a new school particularly difficult for your son. (Not exactly the same thing, but I'm reminded of that SNL sketch "Bottom of Your Face".)

Anyway, we're kind of getting off topic for the Back to Work thread, but I do appreciate the perspective.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Curious: Why is it so important that your kids be in school without masks?

(To put my cards on the table, I am absolutely with you in terms of the need for full-time, in-person schools. With masks, I'm leaning in favor of them but want to learn more. We're in Florida, so there is zero chance the schools will have a mandate, which means this is more a personal decision about what to do with my own kids.)

I think it’s just the anxiety that naturally comes from wearing a mask and seeing everyone else in a mask. 
 

I don’t have a anti or pro mask opinion. Do what you feel is best for you and yours. 

 

[Ilov80s]

I definitely noticed a change in my son's behavior due to masks and remote learning especially in a new school. He became more withdrawn and isolated. It was sad to see. Ever since school ended and he stopped needing to wear a mask and start playing more sports and being around kids without masks I noticed him returning back to normal. I would think the damage to younger children just learning to form relationships is even worse.

The kids definitely use the mask and airpods to "hide" from the world around them. The kids were way less social in school last year. During down times in class where we used to see lots of talking, kids wanting to move seats, etc. they quietly used their phones. Now there is some good to this- we had way way way less behavior problems but it might not be healthy longterm for kids mental health. 

 

[Ilov80s]

Wife's work is relocating (really being absorbed by the larger company that bought them a few years ago). They offered my wife a promotion but they said it would be an in-person position and she would have to move. They also offered a lateral move that was fully remote. She knew they really wanted her in the higher position but she insisted she's not moving (about 4 hours from here, kind of in the middle of nowhere). She figured she was best for the position and they would come around. She has been part of the interview team for the job she turned down and after several interviews they finally realized nobody knows the job better than her. They offered her the promotion, fully remote and doubled her transition pay from 6 weeks to 12 weeks pay. 

 

[kface]

we went hybrid...it's heaven.  2 days in and 3 days at home!

 

[nirad3]

we went hybrid...it's heaven.  2 days in and 3 days at home!

Same.  I'm in my office Mondays and Wednesdays.  At first I really hated the WFH deal.  I really couldn't get much done because I'd casually go watch some TV here and there, check on my kids/dog, fart around, etc.

But now I love being at home.  I still get my work done.  And I have the flexibility to wake up a little later, wear basketball shorts/t-shirt/hat, and do all those things that connect me to my family more.

M/W I am up early, fight some moderate traffic, and then the mornings here at my desk really drag.  I get a lot of work done, but I find myself checking this forum, another forum, and my fantasy baseball stats.  I'm on my phone a lot too (games, Facebook, Tinder, etc.).

I do like the ability to go grab lunch on M/W.  I don't really do that when WFH.  I just eat at home.

Rules here are... non-vaxxed, you mask up in shared spaces or if you're at someone else's desk.  Vaxxed can have no mask.  

I'm starting to travel for work more, but I'm wondering if that gets shut back down with Delta rearing its ugly effing head.   I like... no, wait... love... traveling for work.  I am crossing my fingers that they let us continue doing so.