-OZ-
Footballguy
You’re doing it right and we’d defend that any day.
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Get Your Butt Back To The Office (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter BassNBrew
- Start date
Slacking while searching for 80 hr./wk volunteers to do your bidding in a sweatshop“Manage yourself out of a job while keeping it”
JohnnyU
Footballguy
The cool thing about being so close to retirement is that things you were once concerned about no longer bothers you. These and other things, like layoffs, promotions, new boss that you may not like, being put on a project or position you don’t like, oncall, all of this is other people’s fears. 
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
The kids thing is funny. Doesn’t work that way in nursing. You need consistent time off because of kids and you better go to night shift.
-OZ-
Footballguy
The solution is for people to stop wanting to work for him.Slacking while searching for 80 hr./wk volunteers to do your bidding in a sweatshop“Manage yourself out of a job while keeping it”
TLEF316
Footballguy
So every industry/situation is obviously different. I'm talking more about "eh, things are kinda slow today. I think I'll take off early" as opposed to formally requested time off (I get that that's not a thing in every situation). I (just as an example) am in a role where most of the time....nobody has any extra work just because I take a random day off. And if I DO have something that I know is super time-sensitive, I'm not taking a "for the heck of it" day off anyway.
And yeah.....obviously an actual emergency should be treated completely differently than a for-fun last minute half day. (or leaving for a kid's game or other activity) But I have seen some somewhat shady circumstances where it seems like a parent is taking advantage (turning a "dentist appointment" or their kid having the sniffles into an excuse to play hookie for the whole day) Thankfully I'm now in a position where if one of my colleagues is doing that....they're just delaying their own work. But that wasn't always the case.
And of course, parents are obviously not the only ones taking advantage of these sorts of situations. For the past couple of years post COVID, my office instituted "Summer Fridays". Basically, you paired up with a buddy and the 2 of you alternated having essentially a free PTO day every other Friday from Memorial through Labor. Now, you could only take the day if your desk allowed for it and if you didn't actually put in for a formal PTO....you were expected to be available via phone and email in case of emergencies). It worked really well until a bunch of 24 year olds in other departments started bending the rules (not returning calls....taking more than their allotted days off, etc.) So this year they put an end to it. So now instead of getting me for a half day (I'd generally work in the morning and duck out after lunch for golf or the beach....while still checking my phone) I'd just take a full vacation day
People are idiots. Constantly pushing the boundaries and ruining good things by trying to take that extra inch. We had one dummy go down to Mexico for 3 weeks without telling anyone. But the company eventually noticed she hadn't been in the office for weeks and tracked the IP of her laptop. Not only was it against some sort of tax law for her to bring the laptop outside the US...but she was also in the country on a work via from China. Broke down in tears claiming that she was supporting her parents when they canned her. Maybe use your brain next time, honey.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I'm working at a regional public university, not manning nuclear silos, so I tend to give parents as much flexibility as they want, within reason. Nobody's ever pushed me on how far they can take that, so it's worked out. I figure this all balances out over a person's career lifecycle. At various times in our lives, sometimes we're the ones cutting out for a soccer game or dentist appointment, and sometimes we're the ones covering for those people. It's not "fair" at any one particular moment in time, but it balances out over time.
(On a closely-related note, most of us are going to have the experience of being "the old guy" who could be replaced by someone better at a lower salary if it was legal to do so. We've all covered for that guy at some point. And we're destined to become that guy if we hang around long enough.)
(On a closely-related note, most of us are going to have the experience of being "the old guy" who could be replaced by someone better at a lower salary if it was legal to do so. We've all covered for that guy at some point. And we're destined to become that guy if we hang around long enough.)
Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
This is the #1 benefit of owning your own biz .... not being at the beck and call of corporate managers. Look, anyone has their own biz works for their clients. My clients need something, I'll stop everything to take care of them. But when nothing is going on, I'm not forced to be in the office to clock my 10 hr day to make someone else happy. Or pretend to work while mindlessly doing "training" classes online. Now I certainly lose nights and weekends all the time. Vacations are tough to plan. But mostly I am free to do what I want . And when I am working the benefits of it come directly to me. Not to a corporation. But if I was a corporation, I totally get why I would want people there if I am paying them. I've told my kids so many times that they need to have a 10-20 year plan to own their own biz. And in IT and IB that will be tough. But just getting a paycheck shouldn't be a long term plan.
the moops
Footballguy
Those sentences dont seem to jive with each other
offdee
Footballguy
lol exactly what I thought. As a business owner you are never really free to do whatever you want. And even less free to plan anything in advance. This wasn’t a great argument.
-OZ-
Footballguy
No doubt there are many benefits. But I wouldn’t imagine total freedom is one of them. Unless you want to let the business fail.
It's not. When I'm away on a weekend my customer isn't getting the best possible service. Every vacation west this year (I live east) has involved working 6am to 9am to deal with the bigger issues before having the day to play. Harsher taxation, no medical insurance, no 401k plan, and insurance rates that make owning a home in Florida look cheap. Sure, I worked from home today until 11, but most nights it's 7pm to 11pm before calling it a day. Constant fear that if you're not executing, growing, or following the endless regulations that you'll let down your employees.
coopersdad
Footballguy
Found out today that in June I'll be totally remote.............for about 12 months.
They are moving our corporate headquarters way out west and most of the employees here will not make the trip. Seems as if my group will stay on and assist on getting our ERP moved to the one that most of the other brands are on, so we'll get to stay on for 12 months and then get our severance package.
Been a good ride for 40 years.......... bobbing and weaving around all the mergers / cost cutting / etc..........guess my luck ran out.
They are moving our corporate headquarters way out west and most of the employees here will not make the trip. Seems as if my group will stay on and assist on getting our ERP moved to the one that most of the other brands are on, so we'll get to stay on for 12 months and then get our severance package.
Been a good ride for 40 years.......... bobbing and weaving around all the mergers / cost cutting / etc..........guess my luck ran out.
Sand
Footballguy
What kind of severance does 40 years get you?
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Well at 40 years you must be 60ish. Think I’d take my severance and ride into the sunset.
coopersdad
Footballguy
25 at this company, 39 in total at 2 companies. Yes turn 60 next year.
Hopefully it will be about the same as when we were purchased in 2018, but I got a stay offer that turned into a new position.
I'm hoping for 8 weeks + 2 weeks for each year + my accrued vacation. 8+50+8=66, but I'm guessing it will max as 52 + my vacation.
coopersdad
Footballguy
That would have been my plan too, but 5 years ago i learned that 1/2 is a big number (divorce), and I'm paying for college for youngest son for 2 more years.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
It is. I’m at 1/4.
coopersdad
Footballguy
Well, since my team is staying on for 6 / 12 additional months, we have not been talked to by the HR people, but some people have and let's just say they are not to happy (nor am I).
It seems as if the "cap" on is pretty severe at the senior manager level and lower.
Based upon my calculation, I'll get 12 weeks TOTAL..........which is the max for my level (senior manager) or 2 WEEKS MORE THAN SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN HERE 2 YEARS!!!!!!
It seems as if the "cap" on is pretty severe at the senior manager level and lower.
Based upon my calculation, I'll get 12 weeks TOTAL..........which is the max for my level (senior manager) or 2 WEEKS MORE THAN SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN HERE 2 YEARS!!!!!!
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nightmare
Footballguy
This is the mistake everyone makes. You think you're going to be "rewarded" for your time. If you are beyond a set pay scale you get what you
negotiated for and not what you are worth.
The six months is juuuust long enough where you can't tell them to screw that and leave.
4 years or 40 years does not matter.
Riffraff
Footballguy
Looks like someone needs to take some frequent 'morale days' *cough* *cough*
coopersdad
Footballguy
We will be WFH starting in May, and there is a golf course right down the street.
reminds me of my 1st job in Houston.
Worked there for 8 years. started the same summer w/ a girl that became a good friend of mine and we progressed through the organization at about the same pace.
At this company you started with 15 days of sick time, and then accrued 5 more each year.
After 8 years I had around 50 days in my bank and she had 0 (she just took days as they accrued and worried about being sick like a typical 25ish year old).
She turned in her resignation in October and gave 2 weeks notice.
I turned mine in mid November and told them I'd leave after financial YE close was done, which was in mid April (so almost 5 months).
When I turned in my notice I asked HR about the policy of our sick bank. I asked if I could be paid for 50% of it? "NO".
I explained to them that they were getting a good deal out of it, as the "sick" policy said that "dr's notice is necessary for more than 2 consecutive days of leave" and that was it "cough / cough"
I got paid for the 50% and everyone was happy in the end. But they did change the language in the policy and they also added that they'd pay 25% of the bank to the policy.
Jamie Dimon weighs in...
www.barstoolsports.com
Sounds like a complete arse, but maybe that's what it takes to be successful. He does state that young people are being left behind. Personally I think that's an exaggeration.
I the past we've had groups come together to boycott companies that don't represent their beliefs. Any thoughts on young people boycotting companies that do support WFH?
Incredible Audio Of JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon Absolutely SHREDDING Employees Who Want To Continue To Work From Home
Yes, Jamie! #MyCEO. Get those employee's back in the office, babe. I kid you not...I love this. Who cares if they can get their job done in half the time from home? That's every job. The point is that...
Sounds like a complete arse, but maybe that's what it takes to be successful. He does state that young people are being left behind. Personally I think that's an exaggeration.
I the past we've had groups come together to boycott companies that don't represent their beliefs. Any thoughts on young people boycotting companies that do support WFH?
He does sound like an arse, but on the other hand it's his company and he can do what he wants. If people don't like it they can find a job someplace else. Not ideal if you're working there and otherwise like your job of course.Jamie Dimon weighs in...
Incredible Audio Of JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon Absolutely SHREDDING Employees Who Want To Continue To Work From Home
Yes, Jamie! #MyCEO. Get those employee's back in the office, babe. I kid you not...I love this. Who cares if they can get their job done in half the time from home? That's every job. The point is that...
Sounds like a complete arse, but maybe that's what it takes to be successful. He does state that young people are being left behind. Personally I think that's an exaggeration.
I the past we've had groups come together to boycott companies that don't represent their beliefs. Any thoughts on young people boycotting companies that do support WFH?
Desert_Power
Footballguy
The young folks I work don't particularly want to go in either. The ones that do are getting ahead.Jamie Dimon weighs in...
Incredible Audio Of JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon Absolutely SHREDDING Employees Who Want To Continue To Work From Home
Yes, Jamie! #MyCEO. Get those employee's back in the office, babe. I kid you not...I love this. Who cares if they can get their job done in half the time from home? That's every job. The point is that...
Sounds like a complete arse, but maybe that's what it takes to be successful. He does state that young people are being left behind. Personally I think that's an exaggeration.
I the past we've had groups come together to boycott companies that don't represent their beliefs. Any thoughts on young people boycotting companies that do support WFH?
Sounds like my office is going to that stupid hotel cube concept. Was enjoying spending some time with my own desk that I'm able to bring stuff to and decorate...
AAABatteries
Footballguy
The young folks I work don't particularly want to go in either. The ones that do are getting ahead.Jamie Dimon weighs in...
Incredible Audio Of JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon Absolutely SHREDDING Employees Who Want To Continue To Work From Home
Yes, Jamie! #MyCEO. Get those employee's back in the office, babe. I kid you not...I love this. Who cares if they can get their job done in half the time from home? That's every job. The point is that...
Sounds like a complete arse, but maybe that's what it takes to be successful. He does state that young people are being left behind. Personally I think that's an exaggeration.
I the past we've had groups come together to boycott companies that don't represent their beliefs. Any thoughts on young people boycotting companies that do support WFH?
Sounds like my office is going to that stupid hotel cube concept. Was enjoying spending some time with my own desk that I'm able to bring stuff to and decorate...
It’s still pretty dumb in a lot of offices. Hoteling space which almost everyone loathes and middle managers end up taking huddle and focus rooms for themselves. I had a day last week where I had 2 in person meetings with 4 people and all 4 stayed remote while I drove in. I wanted to throat punch all of them. One of the meetings said “in person” in the invite and the meeting organizer stayed remote.
TLEF316
Footballguy
Our CEO announced a new RTO policy about a month ago. It was rumored for weeks and then they finally dropped the hammer.
We were 3X a week in office for most people. Unfortunately....a lot of people weren't sticking to it (specifically outside my office and region)
Now we're default 5x a week. Yeah...... every division is doing things slightly differently, but basically if you aren't on some sort of performance improvement plan and your boss' boss approved, you can get ONE work from home day. Anything beyond that has to go all the way up to the Division president for approval....for "consistency between regions". We've basically been told that "I have a long commute" isn't an acceptable reason. Any agreements from before the announcement (or even before COVID...like me) are voided.
Here's the fun little wrinkle.....all the new offices that have been built out since COVID were built out with hybrid work in mind (including our flagship offices in NYC and Chicago). Simply put...there aren't enough seats. Our NJ office is like 25 desks short. If you dont book a desk in NYC 2 weeks out you run the risk of not having a desk anywhere near your team....maybe even on another floor. Apparently our Chicago office is at least 100 desks short. In NYC, we have full blown VP's sitting in 6x6 foot huddle rooms because there aren't enough offices. We had an Executive VP visiting our branch a few weeks back and he was sitting in a restaurant style booth in the cafeteria.
The whole situation is a joke. Everyone is livid. We're gonna lose a TON of people this Spring/Summer once bonuses get paid out. All because our CEO got a little pissy over some people not following the rules....and he thinks that we should be following the same rules as Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan (pay me GS types bonuses and I'll work whereever you want me to)
At this point, I'm probably gonna have to scrape together a 4 day week through some combo of NYC (which I'm currently doing 3x every 2 weeks), the NJ branch (if any desks are ever available) and using my buddy's desk in our other NJ office on days he isn't there (totally defeating the purpose of "collaboration"). I'm probably gonna have to pop in on some Fridays just because that will be the only day desks will be available.
Good times. Follow the rules (along with going the extra mile.....taking a full PTO day and working in the morning.....taking calls while I'm on vacation...etc.) for 5 years and that's what you get. "Punished" because the 25 year olds in Boston thought they were getting away with something.
We were 3X a week in office for most people. Unfortunately....a lot of people weren't sticking to it (specifically outside my office and region)
Now we're default 5x a week. Yeah...... every division is doing things slightly differently, but basically if you aren't on some sort of performance improvement plan and your boss' boss approved, you can get ONE work from home day. Anything beyond that has to go all the way up to the Division president for approval....for "consistency between regions". We've basically been told that "I have a long commute" isn't an acceptable reason. Any agreements from before the announcement (or even before COVID...like me) are voided.
Here's the fun little wrinkle.....all the new offices that have been built out since COVID were built out with hybrid work in mind (including our flagship offices in NYC and Chicago). Simply put...there aren't enough seats. Our NJ office is like 25 desks short. If you dont book a desk in NYC 2 weeks out you run the risk of not having a desk anywhere near your team....maybe even on another floor. Apparently our Chicago office is at least 100 desks short. In NYC, we have full blown VP's sitting in 6x6 foot huddle rooms because there aren't enough offices. We had an Executive VP visiting our branch a few weeks back and he was sitting in a restaurant style booth in the cafeteria.
The whole situation is a joke. Everyone is livid. We're gonna lose a TON of people this Spring/Summer once bonuses get paid out. All because our CEO got a little pissy over some people not following the rules....and he thinks that we should be following the same rules as Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan (pay me GS types bonuses and I'll work whereever you want me to)
At this point, I'm probably gonna have to scrape together a 4 day week through some combo of NYC (which I'm currently doing 3x every 2 weeks), the NJ branch (if any desks are ever available) and using my buddy's desk in our other NJ office on days he isn't there (totally defeating the purpose of "collaboration"). I'm probably gonna have to pop in on some Fridays just because that will be the only day desks will be available.
Good times. Follow the rules (along with going the extra mile.....taking a full PTO day and working in the morning.....taking calls while I'm on vacation...etc.) for 5 years and that's what you get. "Punished" because the 25 year olds in Boston thought they were getting away with something.
Instinctive
Footballguy
I liked him when I met him and I gotta say this clip sounds exactly like him being 100% authentic and I fully agree with it. When I run a company, WFH is going to be an exception when needed like it was for my dad (like a sick kid staying home from school, or the city closed all roads because it's Texas and nobody knows what ice is).He does sound like an arse, but on the other hand it's his company and he can do what he wants. If people don't like it they can find a job someplace else. Not ideal if you're working there and otherwise like your job of course.Jamie Dimon weighs in...
Incredible Audio Of JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon Absolutely SHREDDING Employees Who Want To Continue To Work From Home
Yes, Jamie! #MyCEO. Get those employee's back in the office, babe. I kid you not...I love this. Who cares if they can get their job done in half the time from home? That's every job. The point is that...
Sounds like a complete arse, but maybe that's what it takes to be successful. He does state that young people are being left behind. Personally I think that's an exaggeration.
I the past we've had groups come together to boycott companies that don't represent their beliefs. Any thoughts on young people boycotting companies that do support WFH?
You cannot learn as effectively or problem solve as effectively remote. It is an option for acceptable, not distinctive, level work from someone who is an individual contributor and already senior in role. And good for them, but I don't settle for acceptable and a company's culture can't exist in a positive manner without people teaching the younger or less senior people.
Instinctive
Footballguy
Yeah idk how you can have RTO without a useful "O" right?
Equally as dumb as full WFH is the stupid tech startup open office thing.
Hybrid works fine, no change in culture at the company I'm at, everyone in the office 3x/week.I liked him when I met him and I gotta say this clip sounds exactly like him being 100% authentic and I fully agree with it. When I run a company, WFH is going to be an exception when needed like it was for my dad (like a sick kid staying home from school, or the city closed all roads because it's Texas and nobody knows what ice is).He does sound like an arse, but on the other hand it's his company and he can do what he wants. If people don't like it they can find a job someplace else. Not ideal if you're working there and otherwise like your job of course.Jamie Dimon weighs in...
Incredible Audio Of JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon Absolutely SHREDDING Employees Who Want To Continue To Work From Home
Yes, Jamie! #MyCEO. Get those employee's back in the office, babe. I kid you not...I love this. Who cares if they can get their job done in half the time from home? That's every job. The point is that...
Sounds like a complete arse, but maybe that's what it takes to be successful. He does state that young people are being left behind. Personally I think that's an exaggeration.
I the past we've had groups come together to boycott companies that don't represent their beliefs. Any thoughts on young people boycotting companies that do support WFH?
You cannot learn as effectively or problem solve as effectively remote. It is an option for acceptable, not distinctive, level work from someone who is an individual contributor and already senior in role. And good for them, but I don't settle for acceptable and a company's culture can't exist in a positive manner without people teaching the younger or less senior people.
ChiefD
Footballguy
Bring in a bean bag, some pillows, and a blanket and set up a work nest on the floor.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
Yeah, I hate that too. Especially for 1x1s, which I prefer to have in person.The young folks I work don't particularly want to go in either. The ones that do are getting ahead.Jamie Dimon weighs in...
Incredible Audio Of JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon Absolutely SHREDDING Employees Who Want To Continue To Work From Home
Yes, Jamie! #MyCEO. Get those employee's back in the office, babe. I kid you not...I love this. Who cares if they can get their job done in half the time from home? That's every job. The point is that...
Sounds like a complete arse, but maybe that's what it takes to be successful. He does state that young people are being left behind. Personally I think that's an exaggeration.
I the past we've had groups come together to boycott companies that don't represent their beliefs. Any thoughts on young people boycotting companies that do support WFH?
Sounds like my office is going to that stupid hotel cube concept. Was enjoying spending some time with my own desk that I'm able to bring stuff to and decorate...
It’s still pretty dumb in a lot of offices. Hoteling space which almost everyone loathes and middle managers end up taking huddle and focus rooms for themselves. I had a day last week where I had 2 in person meetings with 4 people and all 4 stayed remote while I drove in. I wanted to throat punch all of them. One of the meetings said “in person” in the invite and the meeting organizer stayed remote.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Sounds like there will be a lot of free desks soon
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Yep. Way better. But 70 year old execs who still have their admin print out emails for them (because the exec can’t use their computer) don’t think productivity is the same for anyone who is WFH.
Why are we listening to these dinosaurs? Just retire already……
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Yeah. In charge. Old boomers that won’t let go……in any venue……time to move on to a different group of leaders…..
AAABatteries
Footballguy
I think this is a blanket statement not grounded in much other than your experience and opinion. I’ve worked in corporate America for 25 years for F100 companies and have the exact opposite take.
ETA - my take is also just experience and opinion. I think it depends on the person and the role.
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Instinctive
Footballguy
FWIW, it's not my opinion. Our firm has done a bunch of research on it over the past two years. I guess it could be bad research, but we've spent real resources on trying to come up with a plan for ti.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
What kind of firm? Did the study factor in skill levels, stress levels, commute times, distractions in your location, the type of work and problem solving going on, the people included in the problem solving, the quality of resources you can get to work remote?
I have no doubt certain roles even within my own company have better results with in office work. It doesn’t apply universally and a lot of companies don’t have a coherent plan or strategy or reason for doing it.
Instinctive
Footballguy
Yes. It does. In fact a key takeaway in our published versions (which are a little more general than the team(s) we aligned to the internal problems we had with our people and development satisfaction and performance) is that RTO doesn't automatically solve the problems being heavy hybrid or remote creates. How you do it and the practices matter.
I don't think I've said, and certainly haven't tried to say, that just having everyone be in one place solves everything with no further change or thought. But having them all remote or heavily remote definitely causes issues in connectivity, learning and development, feelings of mentorship and apprenticeship, trajectory to promotions, job satisfaction...we have hard data on all these things across industries.
I've also been, I thought, very clear that remote work is more doable for some roles and individuals than others.
zamboni
Footballguy
Unfortunately, I think Dimon laying down the hammer in a public manner may be the big impetus for many companies that have been re-evaluating WFH to follow suit.Jamie Dimon weighs in...
Incredible Audio Of JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon Absolutely SHREDDING Employees Who Want To Continue To Work From Home
Yes, Jamie! #MyCEO. Get those employee's back in the office, babe. I kid you not...I love this. Who cares if they can get their job done in half the time from home? That's every job. The point is that...
What industry are you in? Have you looked at full time in office vs. majority in office, i.e. ~3x /week?
Instinctive
Footballguy
I'm at a top-tier consulting firm. Our new policy after doing all this testing is 3 days/week for all roles, with teams able to adjust that upward but not downward, and anyone serving a client is expected to be with their team (ideally at client site) 4 days/week and in our office most Fridays. I think that's about right.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
No insult intended to Instinctive here, but I really don't trust the data and studies that consulting firms put out about stuff like RTO or spans of control. My experience has been that implementing these type of top down policies really hurts morale among the best people I work with. Because if you're smart and you care, a lot of knowledge work can really be done from anywhere. It's the micro-managers who don't trust their team and/or want to bully them that push hardest for RTO. And they will use those studies as their main weapon.
Maybe we're just not the type of employees they want though. Too independent.
Maybe we're just not the type of employees they want though. Too independent.
It's probably more an issue of poor middle management not wanting to downsize their staff or manage/coach under performing employees.
I could eliminate unnecessary steps and red tape and get by with 25% less reports - Said no middle manager anywhere.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
Yeah, or they are poor performers themselves.
Middle management can be a tough spot. Often have to contribute while growing as a leader/manager. If you come down and say that someone needs 7 or 10 people to be a manager instead of 3 or 4, you essentially cut off the pipeline to become one. All those young people sitting in the office can't advance because there is no rung there anymore.
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