Get Your Butt Back To The Office (2 Viewers)

[NutterButter]

Case in point, got an email this morning (Tuesday) for something I asked to get done last Friday, "These are done". Thanks...for nothing. That's been my experience more often than not with WFH peeps here.

But wouldn’t be or she have done this in the office too? How does wfh change that?

Because I can walk up to his cube and perch my happy *** there until it gets done. He can chose to just not respond to Teams/Zoom/Email/Messaging when he's WFH.

I've used that tactic sometimes just to piss off my boss when he's being especially douchey.

 

[foxco]

Case in point, got an email this morning (Tuesday) for something I asked to get done last Friday, "These are done". Thanks...for nothing. That's been my experience more often than not with WFH peeps here.

But wouldn’t be or she have done this in the office too? How does wfh change that?

Because I can walk up to his cube and perch my happy *** there until it gets done. He can chose to just not respond to Teams/Zoom/Email/Messaging when he's WFH.

I've learned to cc direct managers on correspondence to people sluggish to respond and it usually speeds things up quite a bid.

 

[Scoresman]

If someone doesnt respond to Teams messages consistently and is WFH, that to me is grounds for some sort of disciplinary action. I dont think these employees are suddenly going to become communicative in the office.

 

[the moops]

When we were doing the COVID thing this was how I was. Usually start around 7am and finish up around 7pm

Dude. That is waaaaaayyyyy too much working

 

[Ridgeback]

If someone doesnt respond to Teams messages consistently and is WFH, that to me is grounds for some sort of disciplinary action. I dont think these employees are suddenly going to become communicative in the office.

But sometimes I have other priorities. Like walking the dog...

 

[beer 30]

I've learned to cc direct managers on correspondence to people sluggish to respond and it usually speeds things up quite a bid.

If someone doesnt respond to Teams messages consistently and is WFH, that to me is grounds for some sort of disciplinary action. I dont think these employees are suddenly going to become communicative in the office.

Agree with both statements. We had one very flagrant offender that I just regularly copied her boss on everything I sent to her. She got let go eventually but no joke, took 3 years.

When we were doing the COVID thing this was how I was. Usually start around 7am and finish up around 7pm

Dude. That is waaaaaayyyyy too much working

Not when the world is depending on you to save it buddy

 

[dgreen]

I think you are really dialing this in. And the long term impact on the #1s may not be realized until 10-20 years down the road when they become #2s and are materially less qualified and efficient as the #2s of today.

sometimes i need to do a number 2 and i feel like if you are at home in your own loo then it is a lot more pleasant than if you are in some clinical stall where at any minute a stranger might walk in take that to the bank bromigos

I was in the bathroom the other day and some guy came in and took a leak that smelled so bad I almost suggested he go see somebody. Revolting. I fn hate being in the office.

The hallway outside one of our restrooms has smelled like urine the last couple days. Unfortunately, it is the restroom closest to me and now I walk to a different floor or way down the hall to use another one. I have no idea what's going on in there. Yesterday morning, as I approached that bathroom, I smelled something. When I entered, the smell was super strong and there was quite a bit of liquid (i assume a mix of toilet water and urine) spread across the floor. I saw someone come out of that restroom today so i assumed it was fixed. Nope, still stinks. The floor looked dry, at least, but I still opted for a different restroom. Oh, and the toilet in the handicap stall has been broken for over a month. Just a sign on the stall door telling us it is broken with nobody coming to fix it.

 

[NutterButter]

When we were doing the COVID thing this was how I was. Usually start around 7am and finish up around 7pm

Dude. That is waaaaaayyyyy too much working

Not when the world is depending on you to save it buddy

We're lucky to have ya. Now get back to work.

 

[TLEF316]

The level of disgusting behavior that some people will engage in in a public restroom never ceases to amaze me.

I mean.....anyone can take an absolutely disgusting #2 that wrecks a toilet. You'd hope that they'd take any possible reasonable steps to clean up after themselves, but sometimes there's only so much you can do. And 99.99% of the time, its not like they're purposely trying to make a mess. (unless they want to feel the wrath of Clyde)

But we have a dude in our office who (for at least the past year. Was happening in our old office and has continued since the move. We dont know who it is) sticks his used Zyn pouches all over the bathroom. On the urinal, walls of the stalls, behind the fixtures, etc.

That's absolutely revolting and if it were up to me, we'd find out who it was by any means necessary and can them. That's sociopath behavior.

 

[Capella]

Case in point, got an email this morning (Tuesday) for something I asked to get done last Friday, "These are done". Thanks...for nothing. That's been my experience more often than not with WFH peeps here.

But wouldn’t be or she have done this in the office too? How does wfh change that?

Because I can walk up to his cube and perch my happy *** there until it gets done. He can chose to just not respond to Teams/Zoom/Email/Messaging when he's WFH.

Lol where I work you’d be disciplined for ignoring teams or emails like that.

 

[beer 30]

The level of disgusting behavior that some people will engage in in a public restroom never ceases to amaze me.

I mean.....anyone can take an absolutely disgusting #2 that wrecks a toilet. You'd hope that they'd take any possible reasonable steps to clean up after themselves, but sometimes there's only so much you can do. And 99.99% of the time, its not like they're purposely trying to make a mess. (unless they want to feel the wrath of Clyde)

But we have a dude in our office who (for at least the past year. Was happening in our old office and has continued since the move. We dont know who it is) sticks his used Zyn pouches all over the bathroom. On the urinal, walls of the stalls, behind the fixtures, etc.

That's absolutely revolting and if it were up to me, we'd find out who it was by any means necessary and can them. That's sociopath behavior.

We have what I'd call random pee'ers. I'm not sure what feral environment these men were raised in but they all missed the aiming portion of potty training growing up. And not like a couple of random drips during the "shake" period of said act, I'm talking missing the urinal and just peeing all over the place. I've only ever seen a perpetrator once, both hands on the phone whilst the unit was swinging wildly to & fro coating the wall, the urinal, the wall, the urinal, his shoes, etc. WTF?

We also have an individual who we dubbed the prayer. Why you ask? Well this non-human entity would do his business in the stall and then proceed to get down on all fours facing the toilet and do???? I have no idea what but it seemed like he was wiping said toilet down. It wasn't a short exercise, dude would be down there a good 30-45 seconds, on the ground, getting after it. You might wonder how we know this? Well being in the stall adjacent and witnessing it will make you a believer. There were multiple members of my group who witnessed this strange ritual. One day I just happened to follow him out and identify him. He would do this then go eat lunch

 

[nirad3]

If someone doesnt respond to Teams messages consistently and is WFH, that to me is grounds for some sort of disciplinary action. I dont think these employees are suddenly going to become communicative in the office.

I have both Teams and Outlook on my phone and basically tether myself to it, which is probably not healthy, but oh well. If someone needs to contact me between 8-5 (and even before/after) I'm definitely findable. I'm hoping that weighs in my favor if my company ends up going to 3 days/week.

 

[BassNBrew]

I think you are really dialing this in. And the long term impact on the #1s may not be realized until 10-20 years down the road when they become #2s and are materially less qualified and efficient as the #2s of today.

sometimes i need to do a number 2 and i feel like if you are at home in your own loo then it is a lot more pleasant than if you are in some clinical stall where at any minute a stranger might walk in take that to the bank bromigos

I was in the bathroom the other day and some guy came in and took a leak that smelled so bad I almost suggested he go see somebody. Revolting. I fn hate being in the office.

I love eating Asparagus at lunch and then taking a leak.

 

[BassNBrew]

The level of disgusting behavior that some people will engage in in a public restroom never ceases to amaze me.

I mean.....anyone can take an absolutely disgusting #2 that wrecks a toilet. You'd hope that they'd take any possible reasonable steps to clean up after themselves, but sometimes there's only so much you can do. And 99.99% of the time, its not like they're purposely trying to make a mess. (unless they want to feel the wrath of Clyde)

But we have a dude in our office who (for at least the past year. Was happening in our old office and has continued since the move. We dont know who it is) sticks his used Zyn pouches all over the bathroom. On the urinal, walls of the stalls, behind the fixtures, etc.

That's absolutely revolting and if it were up to me, we'd find out who it was by any means necessary and can them. That's sociopath behavior.

Back when I was a plant manager the women were the worst. Crap stuck to the walls of the stall and bloody tampons anywhere you could imagine. I would have rather use a Taco Bell men's room.

 

[MAC_32]

I've learned to cc direct managers on correspondence to people sluggish to respond and it usually speeds things up quite a bid.

Side tangent, what is an appropriate email response time? I've mentioned before in posts people don't read that I have almost every notification deactivated. Text messages deliver silently on my phone (just the bubble on my phone - and only if I awake it) and emails deliver silently on a monitor (just the outlook envelope on desktop) - if you need me now you need to call my cell (that buzzes my watch). Anything else, I have to intentionally seek it out.

There are days like today in which I am reachable pretty much all day - I was on my laptop from 8 am - 4 pm except when I was at the gym and I still checked my cell between sets, probably never went more than 30 mins without checking email. There are other weeks in which after my morning check-in I may not give it more than quick skims for at least a couple days. I am sure to flag emails from our team, my boss, and other leads collaborating on active projects but if you don't fit one of those criteria and you message me at the wrong time, it may be a while. Looking ahead, I see that happening if anyone reaches out too late next Wed am - good chance they won't hear back from me until midday Friday. Should I consider adjusting? I'm very pro work-life balance and speed is not a priority with my work, but am sensitive to how the lack of predictability can be perceived from another lens. Sometimes he answers in 3 minutes, other times, 3 days.

 

[the moops]

I've learned to cc direct managers on correspondence to people sluggish to respond and it usually speeds things up quite a bid.

Side tangent, what is an appropriate email response time? I've mentioned before in posts people don't read that I have almost every notification deactivated. Text messages deliver silently on my phone (just the bubble on my phone - and only if I awake it) and emails deliver silently on a monitor (just the outlook envelope on desktop) - if you need me now you need to call my cell (that buzzes my watch). Anything else, I have to intentionally seek it out.

There are days like today in which I am reachable pretty much all day - I was on my laptop from 8 am - 4 pm except when I was at the gym and I still checked my cell between sets, probably never went more than 30 mins without checking email. There are other weeks in which after my morning check-in I may not give it more than quick skims for at least a couple days. I am sure to flag emails from our team, my boss, and other leads collaborating on active projects but if you don't fit one of those criteria and you message me at the wrong time, it may be a while. Looking ahead, I see that happening if anyone reaches out too late next Wed am - good chance they won't hear back from me until midday Friday. Should I consider adjusting? I'm very pro work-life balance and speed is not a priority with my work, but am sensitive to how the lack of predictability can be perceived from another lens. Sometimes he answers in 3 minutes, other times, 3 days.

I wish my boss, or our organization as a whole would institute some policy. Obviously not every email/chat/etc will get answered in the timeline set out, but it would be nice to have something to point to and to be like "dude, it's been 3 days, and while not a big deal if that happens occasionally for non urgent stuff, this is like the 5th time this month it has taken way too long for a somewhat simple request".

I say this, cause while I am very very pro work life balance, I will check my outlook and Teams messages when I am at home or on the weekend. I definitely do not expect most of my employees to do the same, but I kinda do expect a few of the other folks on my level to do so. And especially to do so, when I know that they, like me, have other life stuff going on and are not "on the clock" for a typical 9-5 day.

But yea, I get the sometimes it is 3 minutes and sometimes it is 3 days. The annoying part, with one person in particular, is when it is always 3 days.

 

[Sand]

(unless they want to feel the wrath of Clyde)

 

[rockaction]

Never going back. Going homeless before I go back.

 

[rockaction]

Back when I was a plant manager the women were the worst. Crap stuck to the walls of the stall and bloody tampons anywhere you could imagine.

Yep. I've heard women describe their restrooms. Not everyone is inculcated with a sense of polite hygiene practices.

 

[[icon]]

Still full remote with a 6 figure job and loving the flexibility.

Wife still full remote with a 6 figure job and loving the flexibility.

Last night I had trouble sleeping and spent 2 hours answering emails and building a PPT deck from 4:15-6:15am. Don’t believe the BS coming out of Washington about remote workers.

Just finished my 2nd interview yesterday for another full remote position that would effectively double my income from this one.

They’re still out there for folks who can peform in their PJs.

 

[thecatch]

Just lost out on one of the best young job candidates I've had in years because the person wanted in-office collaboration and most of the people in the unit we were hiring for telework full time.

 

[Fat Nick]

Never going back. Going homeless before I go back.

I'm back in a day or two a week - and I'd say 50% of the time I'm in it's still at my discretion. The only time I end up "having" to go back in is during our earnings period. I'm with you though - I won't work a 100% in-office job again. I'm far more productive at home. My space is better, there are fewer distractions, and I gain 2 hours in my day from not commuting.

I look back on the last 5 years and am so thankful of all the extra time and interactions I've had with my kids (10 and 7) because of being able to work from home instead of getting home at 7 PM and getting an hour before bed time at best.

I firmly believe a good employee will be productive because they take pride in their work, not because they physically have someone looking over their shoulder.

 

[rockaction]

I do have to say I'm being hyperbolic here. Being homeless is no joke. I'm lucky to have a roof over my head right now and grateful every day for shelter and food. It can all collapse so quickly. I would much, much rather be going to an office every day than being forced to be on the street. It's actually a genuine worry of mine.

It doesn't even actually seem remotely close in comparison, really. I was just doing a "Bartleby, The Scrivener" type of thing. (Bartleby is a funny, depressingly accurate short story by Melville about depression and the unwillingness to produce within society's norms.)

 

[BassNBrew]

Still full remote with a 6 figure job and loving the flexibility.

Wife still full remote with a 6 figure job and loving the flexibility.

Last night I had trouble sleeping and spent 2 hours answering emails and building a PPT deck from 4:15-6:15am. Don’t believe the BS coming out of Washington about remote workers.

Just finished my 2nd interview yesterday for another full remote position that would effectively double my income from this one.

They’re still out there for folks who can peform in their PJs.

Congrats dude.

My kids are killing it with this WFH environment. There are so many opportunites if you look aroun

 

[Nugget]

Just lost out on one of the best young job candidates I've had in years because the person wanted in-office collaboration and most of the people in the unit we were hiring for telework full time.

Role/industry? I see having a desire for teamwork and growth, I just don't think I would have been that aware or made it a deal breaker in my mid 20's.

 

[Nugget]

I got a meeting invite at 2:37am today for a 6:00am meeting. Global companies are fun.

 

[bigbottom]

Just lost out on one of the best young job candidates I've had in years because the person wanted in-office collaboration and most of the people in the unit we were hiring for telework full time.

Role/industry? I see having a desire for teamwork and growth, I just don't think I would have been that aware or made it a deal breaker in my mid 20's.

As I noted upthread, most of my son’s peers (entry level career positions) who are fully remote are pretty dissatisfied with their situations. I doubt my son would accept a fully remote job.

 

[Doug B]

Just lost out on one of the best young job candidates I've had in years because the person wanted in-office collaboration and most of the people in the unit we were hiring for telework full time.

Too bad a few people couldn't have come in twice a month for maybe three months to work with your young candidate. Once the new guy's been in the fold a few months, they could have gone back to 100% telework ... new guy probably wouldn't have insta-quit.

...

Question: Do teleworkers ever collaborate with others at their home? Either (a) one or more teleworkers working at one person's home on a collaborative assignment, or (b) a teleworker hosting one or more office workers for a collaborative assignment? "Collaborative assignment" could entail "training", as well, such as a senior person training a new person.

 

[Doug B]

I firmly believe a good employee will be productive because they take pride in their work, not because they physically have someone looking over their shoulder.

This, and IMHO it's not even a little bit controversial. Practically nobody is an independent rock-star in the office and also a total slack-off while teleworking from home.

 

[Scoresman]

Just lost out on one of the best young job candidates I've had in years because the person wanted in-office collaboration and most of the people in the unit we were hiring for telework full time.

Too bad a few people couldn't have come in twice a month for maybe three months to work with your young candidate. Once the new guy's been in the fold a few months, they could have gone back to 100% telework ... new guy probably wouldn't have insta-quit.

...

Question: Do teleworkers ever collaborate with others at their home? Either (a) one or more teleworkers working at one person's home on a collaborative assignment, or (b) a teleworker hosting one or more office workers for a collaborative assignment? "Collaborative assignment" could entail "training", as well, such as a senior person training a new person.

I dont think I'd want to start hosting co-workers at my house.

It's really not that difficult to train or collaborate remotely. The tools are there. I know this is job dependent.

As someone who had endured terrible commutes for many years before COVID, the thought of a new hire expecting multiple people to commute in everyday to satisfy their need for "collaboration" kind of sickens me. Think about what you 're asking people to do.

 

[thecatch]

Just lost out on one of the best young job candidates I've had in years because the person wanted in-office collaboration and most of the people in the unit we were hiring for telework full time.

Role/industry? I see having a desire for teamwork and growth, I just don't think I would have been that aware or made it a deal breaker in my mid 20's.

Lawyer. It's really common for younger attorneys to want in person work experience, which is probably more necessary in our profession than most.

 

[thecatch]

Just lost out on one of the best young job candidates I've had in years because the person wanted in-office collaboration and most of the people in the unit we were hiring for telework full time.

Too bad a few people couldn't have come in twice a month for maybe three months to work with your young candidate. Once the new guy's been in the fold a few months, they could have gone back to 100% telework ... new guy probably wouldn't have insta-quit.

...

Question: Do teleworkers ever collaborate with others at their home? Either (a) one or more teleworkers working at one person's home on a collaborative assignment, or (b) a teleworker hosting one or more office workers for a collaborative assignment? "Collaborative assignment" could entail "training", as well, such as a senior person training a new person.

This person was in SF, it's even harder to get people to come into the office there given: (1) mass migration out of the area during covid, and (2) housing prices in the region means most people living in the bay area are far away from downtown. We do have a lot of online collaboration for teleworking but it's just not the same for a position like this where the new hire is going to have an almost endless stream of questions.

 

[lsutigers]

I work at a University and we just had a return to office mandate implemented.

Directors and above had at most 1 day WFH, but everyone else had up to 3 days remote as an option with most areas of IT being fully remote. Only in week 2 so haven't seen a ton of turnover yet but could see it being an issue in areas like HR, IT and Accounting/Finance where there are a lot of remote options still available (also because Higher Education just pays less).

 

[Fat Nick]

As I noted upthread, most of my son’s peers (entry level career positions) who are fully remote are pretty dissatisfied with their situations. I doubt my son would accept a fully remote job.

I totally get this for folks starting out. I've been with my company for 15+ years, and have a deep network internally. I also now spend most of my time on external facing investor calls, so they're not in our office anyway.

My wife has switched companies twice since COVID, and she has struggled with the social aspect - not having "work friends," etc. It's probably even more impactful for those just learning corporate America.

 

[jwb]

The level of disgusting behavior that some people will engage in in a public restroom never ceases to amaze me.

I mean.....anyone can take an absolutely disgusting #2 that wrecks a toilet. You'd hope that they'd take any possible reasonable steps to clean up after themselves, but sometimes there's only so much you can do. And 99.99% of the time, its not like they're purposely trying to make a mess. (unless they want to feel the wrath of Clyde)

But we have a dude in our office who (for at least the past year. Was happening in our old office and has continued since the move. We dont know who it is) sticks his used Zyn pouches all over the bathroom. On the urinal, walls of the stalls, behind the fixtures, etc.

That's absolutely revolting and if it were up to me, we'd find out who it was by any means necessary and can them. That's sociopath behavior.

Back when I was a plant manager the women were the worst. Crap stuck to the walls of the stall and bloody tampons anywhere you could imagine. I would have rather use a Taco Bell men's room.

It's funny - one of my first jobs was dishwasher at a restaurant/nightclub, and we had to clean the bathrooms too. This was 82/83 or so, and yes, the ladies room was an absolute disaster compared to the men's room. Just terrible.

 

[Doug B]

the thought of a new hire expecting multiple people to commute in everyday to satisfy their need for "collaboration" kind of sickens me. Think about what you 're asking people to do.

Read my post again -- I was specific that it wouldn't be commuting in every day.

What I'm asking people to do is still variable, of course. It could be:

a) asking four to six people to come in six times over a 3-month period, averaging ~15 minutes per commute.
b) asking an office of 35 people to come in six times over a 3-month period, averaging ~60 minutes per commute.

The idea was that, organizationally, there should be an available middle ground. It should be possible -- from the boss's perspective --for a really coveted new hire to get some in-person collaboration during their first few months on the job. I don't see this as an unreasonable ask of the boss to his direct reports (and not "the new guy snapping his fingers and ending telework for everyone else"). If getting that in-person collaboration is THAT much of a problem in a given company ... I guess that company wasn't the right fit. C'est la vie.

 

[Doug B]

This person was in SF, it's even harder to get people to come into the office there given: (1) mass migration out of the area during covid, and (2) housing prices in the region means most people living in the bay area are far away from downtown. We do have a lot of online collaboration for teleworking but it's just not the same for a position like this where the new hire is going to have an almost endless stream of questions.

Understood. Local, specific conditions rule in cases like this. At other offices in other locales, such accommodation is sometimes (often?) workable.

 

[Doug B]

It's really not that difficult to train or collaborate remotely. The tools are there. I know this is job dependent.

Agree with this in my field, and do it routinely.

 

[bigbottom]

Just lost out on one of the best young job candidates I've had in years because the person wanted in-office collaboration and most of the people in the unit we were hiring for telework full time.

Too bad a few people couldn't have come in twice a month for maybe three months to work with your young candidate. Once the new guy's been in the fold a few months, they could have gone back to 100% telework ... new guy probably wouldn't have insta-quit.

...

Question: Do teleworkers ever collaborate with others at their home? Either (a) one or more teleworkers working at one person's home on a collaborative assignment, or (b) a teleworker hosting one or more office workers for a collaborative assignment? "Collaborative assignment" could entail "training", as well, such as a senior person training a new person.

I dont think I'd want to start hosting co-workers at my house.

It's really not that difficult to train or collaborate remotely. The tools are there. I know this is job dependent.

As someone who had endured terrible commutes for many years before COVID, the thought of a new hire expecting multiple people to commute in everyday to satisfy their need for "collaboration" kind of sickens me. Think about what you 're asking people to do.

I have no idea why that would sicken you. The candidate is looking for in person collaborative opportunities. Those were not offered by the job in question, so he passed on the job offer presumably for a competing offer that is more to his liking. Just like you might look for another opportunity if your job required you to be in office five days a week. The kid wasn’t demanding that the company change its policy to accommodate him. Rather, he made a decision between competing offers based on his personal priorities. That’s generally how the modern labor market works.

 

[Doug B]

I have no idea why that would sicken you.

Throwing in the words "every day" indicated that Scoresman was addressing a different hypothetical.

Hypothetically: IF a new hire came in and demanded that a 95% telework office turn on a dime and be converted into a <10% teleworking office strictly so that the new hire could "collaborate" ... yes, that would be galling. But that was not the original proposition (or was it, @thecatch ?).

 

[bigbottom]

I have no idea why that would sicken you.

Throwing in the words "every day" indicated that Scoresman was addressing a different hypothetical.

Hypothetically: IF a new hire came in and demanded that a 95% telework office turn on a dime and be converted into a <10% teleworking office strictly so that the new hire could "collaborate" ... yes, that would be galling. But that was not the original proposition (or was it, @thecatch ?).

I didn’t take it that the candidate demanded anything.

 

[Scoresman]

Just lost out on one of the best young job candidates I've had in years because the person wanted in-office collaboration and most of the people in the unit we were hiring for telework full time.

Too bad a few people couldn't have come in twice a month for maybe three months to work with your young candidate. Once the new guy's been in the fold a few months, they could have gone back to 100% telework ... new guy probably wouldn't have insta-quit.

...

Question: Do teleworkers ever collaborate with others at their home? Either (a) one or more teleworkers working at one person's home on a collaborative assignment, or (b) a teleworker hosting one or more office workers for a collaborative assignment? "Collaborative assignment" could entail "training", as well, such as a senior person training a new person.

I dont think I'd want to start hosting co-workers at my house.

It's really not that difficult to train or collaborate remotely. The tools are there. I know this is job dependent.

As someone who had endured terrible commutes for many years before COVID, the thought of a new hire expecting multiple people to commute in everyday to satisfy their need for "collaboration" kind of sickens me. Think about what you 're asking people to do.

I have no idea why that would sicken you. The candidate is looking for in person collaborative opportunities. Those were not offered by the job in question, so he passed on the job offer presumably for a competing offer that is more to his liking. Just like you might look for another opportunity if your job required you to be in office five days a week. The kid wasn’t demanding that the company change its policy to accommodate him. Rather, he made a decision between competing offers based on his personal priorities. That’s generally how the modern labor market works.

Sickens might be hyperbole on my part. But to me, it looks like a junior employee is expecting fully remote people to go into the office to fulfill his need for collaboration or making work friends. It seems like that's a condition to his employment.

I find this to be a pretty big imposition if the job is working just fine remotely for everyone. If this is a fully remote job/project as it appears to be, the tools are there to train people.

I would never dream of asking my remote co-workers to change their routines and go into the office for something like this.

Edit: Even if its not everyday. You're still asking people to find child/dog care/ change their routines/ and spend time everyday commuting. For many jobs, this is obsolete.

 

[bigbottom]

Just lost out on one of the best young job candidates I've had in years because the person wanted in-office collaboration and most of the people in the unit we were hiring for telework full time.

Too bad a few people couldn't have come in twice a month for maybe three months to work with your young candidate. Once the new guy's been in the fold a few months, they could have gone back to 100% telework ... new guy probably wouldn't have insta-quit.

...

Question: Do teleworkers ever collaborate with others at their home? Either (a) one or more teleworkers working at one person's home on a collaborative assignment, or (b) a teleworker hosting one or more office workers for a collaborative assignment? "Collaborative assignment" could entail "training", as well, such as a senior person training a new person.

I dont think I'd want to start hosting co-workers at my house.

It's really not that difficult to train or collaborate remotely. The tools are there. I know this is job dependent.

As someone who had endured terrible commutes for many years before COVID, the thought of a new hire expecting multiple people to commute in everyday to satisfy their need for "collaboration" kind of sickens me. Think about what you 're asking people to do.

I have no idea why that would sicken you. The candidate is looking for in person collaborative opportunities. Those were not offered by the job in question, so he passed on the job offer presumably for a competing offer that is more to his liking. Just like you might look for another opportunity if your job required you to be in office five days a week. The kid wasn’t demanding that the company change its policy to accommodate him. Rather, he made a decision between competing offers based on his personal priorities. That’s generally how the modern labor market works.

Sickens might be hyperbole on my part. But to me, it looks like a junior employee is expecting fully remote people to go into the office to fulfill his need for collaboration or making work friends. It seems like that's a condition to his employment.

I find this to be a pretty big imposition if the job is working just fine remotely for everyone. If this is a fully remote job/project as it appears to be, the tools are there to train people.

I would never dream of asking my remote co-workers to change their routines and go into the office for something like this.

Well, I’m guessing @thecatch can clarify, but I’m guessing the candidate wasn’t demanding or even asking that the company completely change its policy and start requiring his coworkers to start commuting to the office to accommodate him. Rather, he simply passed on the job offer because the unit was fully remote. I don’t see anything wrong with that.

 

[beer 30]

My daughter is currently looking for work in a professional field. She excelled at school during COVID with at home studies. She can do remote but she learns much, much better by doing with oversight. I don't imagine she would do well in a setting that was 100% WFH.

Conversely, I would hate to have to train someone remotely. Sorry, some things just don't translate over Teams and videos is a ****ty way to try to teach someone a profession.

 

[Scoresman]

Just lost out on one of the best young job candidates I've had in years because the person wanted in-office collaboration and most of the people in the unit we were hiring for telework full time.

Too bad a few people couldn't have come in twice a month for maybe three months to work with your young candidate. Once the new guy's been in the fold a few months, they could have gone back to 100% telework ... new guy probably wouldn't have insta-quit.

...

Question: Do teleworkers ever collaborate with others at their home? Either (a) one or more teleworkers working at one person's home on a collaborative assignment, or (b) a teleworker hosting one or more office workers for a collaborative assignment? "Collaborative assignment" could entail "training", as well, such as a senior person training a new person.

I dont think I'd want to start hosting co-workers at my house.

It's really not that difficult to train or collaborate remotely. The tools are there. I know this is job dependent.

As someone who had endured terrible commutes for many years before COVID, the thought of a new hire expecting multiple people to commute in everyday to satisfy their need for "collaboration" kind of sickens me. Think about what you 're asking people to do.

I have no idea why that would sicken you. The candidate is looking for in person collaborative opportunities. Those were not offered by the job in question, so he passed on the job offer presumably for a competing offer that is more to his liking. Just like you might look for another opportunity if your job required you to be in office five days a week. The kid wasn’t demanding that the company change its policy to accommodate him. Rather, he made a decision between competing offers based on his personal priorities. That’s generally how the modern labor market works.

Sickens might be hyperbole on my part. But to me, it looks like a junior employee is expecting fully remote people to go into the office to fulfill his need for collaboration or making work friends. It seems like that's a condition to his employment.

I find this to be a pretty big imposition if the job is working just fine remotely for everyone. If this is a fully remote job/project as it appears to be, the tools are there to train people.

I would never dream of asking my remote co-workers to change their routines and go into the office for something like this.

Well, I’m guessing @thecatch can clarify, but I’m guessing the candidate wasn’t demanding or even asking that the company completely change its policy and start requiring his coworkers to start commuting to the office to accommodate him. Rather, he simply passed on the job offer because the unit was fully remote. I don’t see anything wrong with that.

I assumed that he applied to a remote position disappointed there was no in-office collaboration. But yeah, maybe my assumption is incorrect.

This is a bit of a trigger for me as you can tell, sorry if I come on too strong here. I dont think people realize the problems it can cause for people to consistently return to the office. I'm talking about jobs that have been remote and are not expecting to go back and don't need to go back to do their work. We have junior employees who express the same desire for people in the office despite having all the tools to work remote, and if I ever was forced to go in because of something like this I would be furious.

 

[Scoresman]

My daughter is currently looking for work in a professional field. She excelled at school during COVID with at home studies. She can do remote but she learns much, much better by doing with oversight. I don't imagine she would do well in a setting that was 100% WFH.

Conversely, I would hate to have to train someone remotely. Sorry, some things just don't translate over Teams and videos is a ****ty way to try to teach someone a profession.

Highly dependent on the profession. For us, it's actually ideal to do it remotely. In person, training would be in a conference room with a projector. Remote, it's just done via Teams with screen sharing.

 

[Doug B]

Edit: Even if its not everyday. You're still asking people to find child/dog care/ change their routines/ and spend time everyday commuting. For many jobs, this is obsolete.

Maybe ask for volunteers to do so at their convenience? I guess within a given office and a given office culture, it's either a workable thing without imposing on others or it's not. I don't mean to belabor it. Seemed to me like, generally, getting a new guy some collaboration would be a workable thing. I can see and understand that might not be universally true.

 

[Hawks64]

I've learned to cc direct managers on correspondence to people sluggish to respond and it usually speeds things up quite a bid.

Side tangent, what is an appropriate email response time? I've mentioned before in posts people don't read that I have almost every notification deactivated. Text messages deliver silently on my phone (just the bubble on my phone - and only if I awake it) and emails deliver silently on a monitor (just the outlook envelope on desktop) - if you need me now you need to call my cell (that buzzes my watch). Anything else, I have to intentionally seek it out.

There are days like today in which I am reachable pretty much all day - I was on my laptop from 8 am - 4 pm except when I was at the gym and I still checked my cell between sets, probably never went more than 30 mins without checking email. There are other weeks in which after my morning check-in I may not give it more than quick skims for at least a couple days. I am sure to flag emails from our team, my boss, and other leads collaborating on active projects but if you don't fit one of those criteria and you message me at the wrong time, it may be a while. Looking ahead, I see that happening if anyone reaches out too late next Wed am - good chance they won't hear back from me until midday Friday. Should I consider adjusting? I'm very pro work-life balance and speed is not a priority with my work, but am sensitive to how the lack of predictability can be perceived from another lens. Sometimes he answers in 3 minutes, other times, 3 days.

I'll assume the emails have either a request or action that you need to take? It depends on the field, IMO. I always respond within 24 hours, with the goal of less than that. If someone I work with doesn't respond within the business day, I'll be going to one of their peers or mgmt.

 

[Scoresman]

Edit: Even if its not everyday. You're still asking people to find child/dog care/ change their routines/ and spend time everyday commuting. For many jobs, this is obsolete.

Maybe ask for volunteers to do so at their convenience? I guess within a given office and a given office culture, it's either a workable thing without imposing on others or it's not. I don't mean to belabor it. Seemed to me like, generally, getting a new guy some collaboration would be a workable thing. I can see and understand that might not be universally true.

Yeah maybe I'm in a unique environment. But I dont think it's a hot take to be pissed if a junior employee came onboard with expectations of in office collaboration when A) it has been unnecessary to this point and B) he applied for a job that was advertised as fully remote. Higher up executives catch wind of things like this and it might tip the scales in favor of them executing RTO mandates. It's a "Dont rock the boat" situation.

 

[Doug B]

Just lost out on one of the best young job candidates I've had in years because the person wanted in-office collaboration and most of the people in the unit we were hiring for telework full time.

Wait -- I missed this the first time around. Are there sufficient (at least partially) in-office people outside of the teleworking majority for this new hire to potentially have gotten some collaboration?