Greatest female pop artist of all time (1 Viewer)

[BLOCKED_PUNT]

no Mariah Carey?

 

[Captain Cranks]

But I don't recall Madonna or any other pop star reaching the same level of widespread obsession that Swift has reached. Feels like some Beatles/Elvis type stuff.

The Madonna worship by the gay community is next level too.

 

[Captain Cranks]

no Mariah Carey?

She along with a couple others were going to make the list but the forum limited me to 10 choices.

 

[Eephus]

Can't believe I'm the only Beyonce voter. Have you been sleeping all century?

 

[rockaction]

Someday, somebody is going to look back on Taylor Swift and Beyonce and wonder why we griped about such things before the nuclear blasts happened.

 

[rustycolts]

I would rather see Tina Turner in her prime than anyone else on the list.

Here is a blistering live performane clip from the "Hollywood A-Go Go" TV show in 1965 (Sorry about the For Research Only lettering in middle of the screen).

Ike & Tina Turner - A Fool in Love (Live TV 1965)

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

Damn @squistion I think this is the first time we have agreed on anything.

 

[-OZ-]

Personal choice? Aretha.
But Taylor has overtaken Madonna

 

[Manster]

Even though she's a nut job, I voted for Madonna. Her career spanned several decades. Everyone in the world knew who she was in the 80's and 90's.

The same can be said for Ms. Swift now (she debuted in 2006, it is now 2025).

With all due respect to Madonna, who probably is comfortably in 2nd place here, she is now trailing Swift by quite a bit, largely because Swift has excelled at having hit singles AND smash albums, the latter of which is not close. Despite everyone knowing who Madonna was in the 90s, none of her albums went to number 1 here on the Billboard 200. Swift, meanwhile, has had 14 studio albums in a row DEBUT at number 1 (10 if you want to be pedantic and not count the Taylor's Version re-recordings), and of course has the record for most Album of the Year wins at the Grammy's (which might be mostly crap, but that is still a notable accompishment). With singles, both have had 12 number 1 hits, but Swift actually has more weeks spent at number 1. Again, Madonna reigned supreme for a long time, but she is now number 2. No shame in that,

I honestly didnt know swift has had that much accolades. I grew up in the 80's....I was never a pop music guy, but .... Madonna, Michael Jackson, and Prince were larger than life. Madonna dominated the MTV era. That's what sticks out in my mind.

I don't even pay attention to swift, Beyonce, etc......

 

[FarFromHome]

Even though she's a nut job, I voted for Madonna. Her career spanned several decades. Everyone in the world knew who she was in the 80's and 90's.

The same can be said for Ms. Swift now (she debuted in 2006, it is now 2025).

With all due respect to Madonna, who probably is comfortably in 2nd place here, she is now trailing Swift by quite a bit, largely because Swift has excelled at having hit singles AND smash albums, the latter of which is not close. Despite everyone knowing who Madonna was in the 90s, none of her albums went to number 1 here on the Billboard 200. Swift, meanwhile, has had 14 studio albums in a row DEBUT at number 1 (10 if you want to be pedantic and not count the Taylor's Version re-recordings), and of course has the record for most Album of the Year wins at the Grammy's (which might be mostly crap, but that is still a notable accompishment). With singles, both have had 12 number 1 hits, but Swift actually has more weeks spent at number 1. Again, Madonna reigned supreme for a long time, but she is now number 2. No shame in that,

I honestly didnt know swift has had that much accolades. I grew up in the 80's....I was never a pop music guy, but .... Madonna, Michael Jackson, and Prince were larger than life. Madonna dominated the MTV era. That's what sticks out in my mind.

I don't even pay attention to swift, Beyonce, etc......

This exactly. Another note about Madonna was her risks. When Like a Virgin came out the world kinda looked around thinking can she do that? I remember playing that song for my dad and the look he gave me is still in my memory.

 

[Chaos34]

Can't believe I'm the only Beyonce voter. Have you been sleeping all century?

I had to vote other. My pick and the top selling artist of the 21st century, who is so despite being on a long hiatus is: RIHANNA.

 

[Instinctive]

Even though she's a nut job, I voted for Madonna. Her career spanned several decades. Everyone in the world knew who she was in the 80's and 90's.

The same can be said for Ms. Swift now (she debuted in 2006, it is now 2025).

With all due respect to Madonna, who probably is comfortably in 2nd place here, she is now trailing Swift by quite a bit, largely because Swift has excelled at having hit singles AND smash albums, the latter of which is not close. Despite everyone knowing who Madonna was in the 90s, none of her albums went to number 1 here on the Billboard 200. Swift, meanwhile, has had 14 studio albums in a row DEBUT at number 1 (10 if you want to be pedantic and not count the Taylor's Version re-recordings), and of course has the record for most Album of the Year wins at the Grammy's (which might be mostly crap, but that is still a notable accompishment). With singles, both have had 12 number 1 hits, but Swift actually has more weeks spent at number 1. Again, Madonna reigned supreme for a long time, but she is now number 2. No shame in that,

I honestly didnt know swift has had that much accolades. I grew up in the 80's....I was never a pop music guy, but .... Madonna, Michael Jackson, and Prince were larger than life. Madonna dominated the MTV era. That's what sticks out in my mind.

I don't even pay attention to swift, Beyonce, etc......

This exactly. Another note about Madonna was her risks. When Like a Virgin came out the world kinda looked around thinking can she do that? I remember playing that song for my dad and the look he gave me is still in my memory.

In a way it's kind of like Dan Marino vs Tom Brady. Marino was awesome. He had the TD record, single season yardage record, he was widely regarded as one of the best ever and still is. He was the first to throw for 5000, first to throw for 40 TDs in a season, etc. He modernized the QB position in many ways.

Brady broke every record he held, played longer, and won more.

 

[squistion]

I would rather see Tina Turner in her prime than anyone else on the list.

Here is a blistering live performane clip from the "Hollywood A-Go Go" TV show in 1965 (Sorry about the For Research Only lettering in middle of the screen).

Ike & Tina Turner - A Fool in Love (Live TV 1965)

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

Damn @squistion I think this is the first time we have agreed on anything.

I'll take it. Thanks!

 

[need2know]

Yoko ono

 

[Snoopy]

Yoko ono

 

[Ghost Rider]

Even though she's a nut job, I voted for Madonna. Her career spanned several decades. Everyone in the world knew who she was in the 80's and 90's.

The same can be said for Ms. Swift now (she debuted in 2006, it is now 2025).

With all due respect to Madonna, who probably is comfortably in 2nd place here, she is now trailing Swift by quite a bit, largely because Swift has excelled at having hit singles AND smash albums, the latter of which is not close. Despite everyone knowing who Madonna was in the 90s, none of her albums went to number 1 here on the Billboard 200. Swift, meanwhile, has had 14 studio albums in a row DEBUT at number 1 (10 if you want to be pedantic and not count the Taylor's Version re-recordings), and of course has the record for most Album of the Year wins at the Grammy's (which might be mostly crap, but that is still a notable accompishment). With singles, both have had 12 number 1 hits, but Swift actually has more weeks spent at number 1. Again, Madonna reigned supreme for a long time, but she is now number 2. No shame in that,

I honestly didnt know swift has had that much accolades. I grew up in the 80's....I was never a pop music guy, but .... Madonna, Michael Jackson, and Prince were larger than life. Madonna dominated the MTV era. That's what sticks out in my mind.

I don't even pay attention to swift, Beyonce, etc......

I hear ya on this, as I grew up in the 80s watching MTV and falling for plenty of pop from that era, quite a bit of which I still listen to many years later. I think growing up in that decade is why despite being a rocker at the core, I have always been a sucker for a great pop tune.

Even though she's a nut job, I voted for Madonna. Her career spanned several decades. Everyone in the world knew who she was in the 80's and 90's.

The same can be said for Ms. Swift now (she debuted in 2006, it is now 2025).

With all due respect to Madonna, who probably is comfortably in 2nd place here, she is now trailing Swift by quite a bit, largely because Swift has excelled at having hit singles AND smash albums, the latter of which is not close. Despite everyone knowing who Madonna was in the 90s, none of her albums went to number 1 here on the Billboard 200. Swift, meanwhile, has had 14 studio albums in a row DEBUT at number 1 (10 if you want to be pedantic and not count the Taylor's Version re-recordings), and of course has the record for most Album of the Year wins at the Grammy's (which might be mostly crap, but that is still a notable accompishment). With singles, both have had 12 number 1 hits, but Swift actually has more weeks spent at number 1. Again, Madonna reigned supreme for a long time, but she is now number 2. No shame in that,

I honestly didnt know swift has had that much accolades. I grew up in the 80's....I was never a pop music guy, but .... Madonna, Michael Jackson, and Prince were larger than life. Madonna dominated the MTV era. That's what sticks out in my mind.

I don't even pay attention to swift, Beyonce, etc......

This exactly. Another note about Madonna was her risks. When Like a Virgin came out the world kinda looked around thinking can she do that? I remember playing that song for my dad and the look he gave me is still in my memory.

Yep, yep, what Madonna did with her constant reinventions was always daring and risky, but I think it is safe to say that most of her risk were more marketing and how she portrayed herself than creatively as far as the music went. Swift has taken quite a few risks herself, all creatively, and has always come out on the other side bigger than she was before.

 

[Ilov80s]

L

Yep, yep, what Madonna did with her constant reinventions was always daring and risky, but I think it is safe to say that most of her risk were more marketing and how she portrayed herself than creatively as far as the music went. Swift has taken quite a few risks herself, all creatively, and has always come out on the other side bigger than she was before.

What risks has Swift taken?

 

[Ben & Jerry's]

Ann Wilson

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

Pop?
A few of these do not belong in the Pop category.

Recording Artists?

Also frontwoman vs solo artist has to come into play

 

[Ghost Rider]

L

Yep, yep, what Madonna did with her constant reinventions was always daring and risky, but I think it is safe to say that most of her risk were more marketing and how she portrayed herself than creatively as far as the music went. Swift has taken quite a few risks herself, all creatively, and has always come out on the other side bigger than she was before.

What risks has Swift taken?

The two most obvious ones are:

1) Her transition from country to full-blown pop was very risky, as if it had not gone well, she could have lost most or all of her country base and not gained many new fans in the process.

2) Her 2020 albums being rather folksy/indie rock-ish could have been massive failures given that she was at that point seen as a full-blown pop artist, but instead it vaulted her back up to levels of popularity similar to the 1989 era and gained her a ton new fans (like me; I doubt I ever get into her at all if those albums hadn't been my gateway records).

Because her risks have always paid off for her, it's easy to overlook them, but make no mistake that she has taken them.

 

[RandyDB]

I vote Cher. She is my wifes favorite.
Taylor can become the best if she is still going when she is 75.

 

[Joey Wright]

New Taylor Swift album 12/12/25!

 

[KarmaPolice]

Late to this party, but sheesh - no Kesha or Katy Perry options??!!

 

[KarmaPolice]

As far as the Madonna vs. Swift portion of the debate, there is way too much focus on ticket and album sales going on here. I would say listen to a few albums and hear the difference in talent and how good Swift's albums are top to bottom vs. how Madonna is more hits driven. I would agree with Andy that it's not really close between those two, and I listen to a fair bit of both.

I think Madonna's debut, Like a Virgin, and Like a Prayer are her best and all have clunkers and I have trouble listening to some songs on these.
1989 top to bottom is a perfect pop album, and I can listen to that on repeat, and it's not even her "best" album - just still my favorite. Swift is more talented and diverse.

 

[Joey Wright]

As far as the Madonna vs. Swift portion of the debate, there is way too much focus on ticket and album sales going on here. I would say listen to a few albums and hear the difference in talent and how good Swift's albums are top to bottom vs. how Madonna is more hits driven. I would agree with Andy that it's not really close between those two, and I listen to a fair bit of both.

I think Madonna's debut, Like a Virgin, and Like a Prayer are her best and all have clunkers and I have trouble listening to some songs on these.
1989 top to bottom is a perfect pop album, and I can listen to that on repeat, and it's not even her "best" album - just still my favorite. Swift is more talented and diverse.

This is a really good breakdown.

FTR: folklore is my favorite TS album just to put on to work

 

[Ghost Rider]

New Taylor Swift album 12/12/25!

Yep!

As far as the Madonna vs. Swift portion of the debate, there is way too much focus on ticket and album sales going on here. I would say listen to a few albums and hear the difference in talent and how good Swift's albums are top to bottom vs. how Madonna is more hits driven. I would agree with Andy that it's not really close between those two, and I listen to a fair bit of both.

I think Madonna's debut, Like a Virgin, and Like a Prayer are her best and all have clunkers and I have trouble listening to some songs on these.
1989 top to bottom is a perfect pop album, and I can listen to that on repeat, and it's not even her "best" album - just still my favorite. Swift is more talented and diverse.

Ray of Light is the only Madonna I like from start to finish, but I think your breakdown is still pretty accurate overall. Madonna was just more a hit maker than a classic album maker, No shame in that, and her hits were legendary and her longevity something else. Nothing but respect for her legacy.

 

[KarmaPolice]

New Taylor Swift album 12/12/25!

Yep!

As far as the Madonna vs. Swift portion of the debate, there is way too much focus on ticket and album sales going on here. I would say listen to a few albums and hear the difference in talent and how good Swift's albums are top to bottom vs. how Madonna is more hits driven. I would agree with Andy that it's not really close between those two, and I listen to a fair bit of both.

I think Madonna's debut, Like a Virgin, and Like a Prayer are her best and all have clunkers and I have trouble listening to some songs on these.
1989 top to bottom is a perfect pop album, and I can listen to that on repeat, and it's not even her "best" album - just still my favorite. Swift is more talented and diverse.

Ray of Light is the only Madonna I like from start to finish, but I think your breakdown is still pretty accurate overall. Madonna was just more a hit maker than a classic album maker, No shame in that, and her hits were legendary and her longevity something else. Nothing but respect for her legacy.

The other point I was going to make about Madonna that much of her legacy is about pushing sexual boundaries and her extra-curricular stuff. I feel Swift's legacy is a little more about the music.

 

[General Malaise]

L

Yep, yep, what Madonna did with her constant reinventions was always daring and risky, but I think it is safe to say that most of her risk were more marketing and how she portrayed herself than creatively as far as the music went. Swift has taken quite a few risks herself, all creatively, and has always come out on the other side bigger than she was before.

What risks has Swift taken?

The two most obvious ones are:

1) Her transition from country to full-blown pop was very risky, as if it had not gone well, she could have lost most or all of her country base and not gained many new fans in the process.

2) Her 2020 albums being rather folksy/indie rock-ish could have been massive failures given that she was at that point seen as a full-blown pop artist, but instead it vaulted her back up to levels of popularity similar to the 1989 era and gained her a ton new fans (like me; I doubt I ever get into her at all if those albums hadn't been my gateway records).

Because her risks have always paid off for her, it's easy to overlook them, but make no mistake that she has taken them.

Rerecording her first six albums was a pretty big risk as well.

Reclaiming her music by rerecording her first six albums is a massive undertaking with financial and legal implications, but it's also a powerful statement about artistic control, notes ABC News.

 

[General Malaise]

As far as the Madonna vs. Swift portion of the debate, there is way too much focus on ticket and album sales going on here. I would say listen to a few albums and hear the difference in talent and how good Swift's albums are top to bottom vs. how Madonna is more hits driven. I would agree with Andy that it's not really close between those two, and I listen to a fair bit of both.

I think Madonna's debut, Like a Virgin, and Like a Prayer are her best and all have clunkers and I have trouble listening to some songs on these.
1989 top to bottom is a perfect pop album, and I can listen to that on repeat, and it's not even her "best" album - just still my favorite. Swift is more talented and diverse.

This is a really good breakdown.

FTR: folklore is my favorite TS album just to put on to work

Yeah, that whole album is terrific.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

New Taylor Swift album 12/12/25!

What a perfect release date. Especially if it contains a new Christmas song.

 

[Ghost Rider]

L

Yep, yep, what Madonna did with her constant reinventions was always daring and risky, but I think it is safe to say that most of her risk were more marketing and how she portrayed herself than creatively as far as the music went. Swift has taken quite a few risks herself, all creatively, and has always come out on the other side bigger than she was before.

What risks has Swift taken?

The two most obvious ones are:

1) Her transition from country to full-blown pop was very risky, as if it had not gone well, she could have lost most or all of her country base and not gained many new fans in the process.

2) Her 2020 albums being rather folksy/indie rock-ish could have been massive failures given that she was at that point seen as a full-blown pop artist, but instead it vaulted her back up to levels of popularity similar to the 1989 era and gained her a ton new fans (like me; I doubt I ever get into her at all if those albums hadn't been my gateway records).

Because her risks have always paid off for her, it's easy to overlook them, but make no mistake that she has taken them.

Rerecording her first six albums was a pretty big risk as well.

Reclaiming her music by rerecording her first six albums is a massive undertaking with financial and legal implications, but it's also a powerful statement about artistic control, notes ABC News.

True that. That could have easily been somewhat of a miss, and honestly it felt like the re-recording of Fearless sorta just came and went, but doing Red 2nd changed everything. The 10MV of All Too Well and the short film she shot to go with it just lifted the entire project up several levels.

New Taylor Swift album 12/12/25!

What a perfect release date. Especially if it contains a new Christmas song.

Actually, the release date has not been released yet; I think it is more likely to be next month. I am sure we will know by tomorrow evening once she does the podcast with the Kelce brothers.

 

[urbanhack]

Can't believe I'm the only Beyonce voter. Have you been sleeping all century?

 

[Gr00vus]

Odd bump. Thought there was already a swift thread.

Have yet to hear a Swift tune that left me hoping I'd hear it again. Not awful, just not memorable.

Of the choices above i'd go with Franklin or Madonna, but I voted other for Donna Summer. She deserves a mention.

 

[General Malaise]

Odd bump. Thought there was already a swift thread.

Have yet to hear a Swift tune that left me hoping I'd hear it again. Not awful, just not memorable.

Of the choices above i'd go with Franklin or Madonna, but I voted other for Donna Summer. She deserves a mention.

Try "State of Grace". If that doesn't take, you're just not a fan and that's okay.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Odd bump. Thought there was already a swift thread.

Have yet to hear a Swift tune that left me hoping I'd hear it again. Not awful, just not memorable.

Of the choices above i'd go with Franklin or Madonna, but I voted other for Donna Summer. She deserves a mention.

There is:

Thread 'The force of nature that is Taylor Swift - New Album coming April 2024'

Feb 28, 2021

Three months ago, I couldn't name a song by her (honest!). Today, I have become a fan, largely thanks to her two 2020 albums, Folklore and Evermore, both of which are tremendous. Some of her pop stuff is quite good as well. I can't get into to her early country stuff, but I get the appeal for others. Maybe I am fanboying already, but it feels like a lot of the criticism thrown her way over the years is unfair (not all of it, but a lot of it). She is a helluva lyricist, and seems to have a really good head on her shoulders. And yes, she is very easy on the eyes, which never hurts ...

• Ghost Rider
• Replies: 775
• Forum: Footballguys Free For All

• 
• 

 

[gianmarco]

Odd bump. Thought there was already a swift thread.

Have yet to hear a Swift tune that left me hoping I'd hear it again. Not awful, just not memorable.

Of the choices above i'd go with Franklin or Madonna, but I voted other for Donna Summer. She deserves a mention.

This is me.

 

[General Malaise]

I don't like the use of the word "pop" in here. Early Tina and Aretha are not "pop" to me at all. When I hear "pop" I think of Katy Perry or Debbie Gibson. Tina was "soul". The woman taught Mick Jagger how to dance for crying out loud.

I'll vote for T. Swizzle because she's my favorite female pop artist today, even though she was country and is experimenting with folk.

 

[El Floppo]

Gladys?

A point about TS...she writes a lot of her own music, which is a big deal vs other pop stars.

Her, Madonna, Whitney and Beyonce are the names that immediately come to mind for me.

 

[SWC]

various articles have claimed that madonna has sold 300 million units but her certified unit sale number is 192.9 million while taylor swift has certified unit sales of 300.4 million as of 2024 taylor swift was the wealthiest female singer in the world with a value of 1.6 billion madonna is worth 850 million in fact rhianna is between them at number two with a wealth of 1.4 billion so on the wealth side and sales side its taylor swift now on the number one hits side here is where it gets interesting number one is mariah carey with number 2 overall behind only the beatles with 19 number 1 hits spanning from 1990 to 2019 although there was a huge gap between 2008s touch my body and 2019s all i want for christmas riahnna is number three with 14 number hits from 2006 through 2016 madonna is number 6 overall with 12 number 1 hits from 1984 to 2000 and tied at 6 overall is taylor swift also with 12 stemming from 2012 to 2024 whitney houston checks in at 9 with 11 and janet jackson checks in at number 10 with 10 numero unos from 1986 to 2001 so i think taylor probably gets another 1 or 2 maybe more while i think madonna is done with number 1s so on the number one hits side i think its mariah because even if you discount the christmas hit of the universe she still had an 18 year window of number 1s which beats anyone else now is taylor done probabably not if she has a few more number 1s in there and extends her influence time to 20 years i think its her and there isnt really any argument take that to the bank bromigos

 

[SWC]

also you gotta factor in that taylor had a hell of a run as a country artist and had two number 1s on that chart and one of them made her the youngest person ever with a number 1 country song and im not sure that country is anything different than twangy pop these days anymore take that to the bank brochachos

 

[Mister CIA]

I still love you, Dolly.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

various articles have claimed that madonna has sold 300 million units but her certified unit sale number is 192.9 million while taylor swift has certified unit sales of 300.4 million as of 2024 taylor swift was the wealthiest female singer in the world with a value of 1.6 billion madonna is worth 850 million in fact rhianna is between them at number two with a wealth of 1.4 billion so on the wealth side and sales side its taylor swift now on the number one hits side here is where it gets interesting number one is mariah carey with number 2 overall behind only the beatles with 19 number 1 hits spanning from 1990 to 2019 although there was a huge gap between 2008s touch my body and 2019s all i want for christmas riahnna is number three with 14 number hits from 2006 through 2016 madonna is number 6 overall with 12 number 1 hits from 1984 to 2000 and tied at 6 overall is taylor swift also with 12 stemming from 2012 to 2024 whitney houston checks in at 9 with 11 and janet jackson checks in at number 10 with 10 numero unos from 1986 to 2001 so i think taylor probably gets another 1 or 2 maybe more while i think madonna is done with number 1s so on the number one hits side i think its mariah because even if you discount the christmas hit of the universe she still had an 18 year window of number 1s which beats anyone else now is taylor done probabably not if she has a few more number 1s in there and extends her influence time to 20 years i think its her and there isnt really any argument take that to the bank bromigos

I have to admit that is one impressive example of not using any punctuation.

 

[Joey Wright]

Odd bump. Thought there was already a swift thread.

my bad on this. I searched for a swift thread and didn't see a dedicated one.

 

[rockaction]

I don’t think sales say anything given our current climate of everything. I think we’ve had a massive brain drain and brain cramp in so many aspects of life and Taylor Swift is a symptom of that. Most of post-‘68 life has been a downward spiral, IMO, and it gets worse.

I certainly don’t think merit is running the show.

The fertility rate in America for the past fifty or so years using a major longitudinal study of biological twins to biological parents (controls for almost all social factors) tells us that very low IQ people (bottom ten percent) have twice as many children as high IQ people (top ten percent). The rates are even worse when you consider average IQ people (25th-75th) have 1.6 children per female while those in the lowest 10th percentile of IQ have 2.3 children. Those in the 25th-10th have 1.9.

Swifties? Hardly swift nor swiftly.

If you’ve noticed things getting dumber, that’s because they likely are.

 

[General Malaise]

I don’t think sales say anything given our current climate of everything. I think we’ve had a massive brain drain and brain cramp in so many aspects of life and Taylor Swift is a symptom of that. Most of post-‘68 life has been a downward spiral, IMO, and it gets worse.

I certainly don’t think merit is running the show.

The fertility rate in America for the past fifty or so years in longitudinal study of biological twins to biological parents (controls for almost all social factors) tells us that very low IQ people (bottom ten percent) have twice as many children as high IQ people (top ten percent). The rates are even worse when you consider average IQ people (25th-75th) have 1.6 children per female while those in the lowest 10th percentile of IQ have 2.3 children. Those in the 25th-10th have 1.9.

Swifties? Hardly swift nor swiftly.

If you’ve noticed things getting dumber, that because they likely are.

Are you suggesting only stupid people are breeding, Harvey Danger?

I don't think you've ever actually listened to Taylor Swift. I think you know some of her songs, but have you given one of her albums an honest listen from start to finish? If so and you think she's a symptom of a dumber society, so be it. As I said earlier, some people listen and just don't like it. Just curious how much of an effort you've expended listening to her before forming your conclusions.

 

[rockaction]

I don’t think sales say anything given our current climate of everything. I think we’ve had a massive brain drain and brain cramp in so many aspects of life and Taylor Swift is a symptom of that. Most of post-‘68 life has been a downward spiral, IMO, and it gets worse.

I certainly don’t think merit is running the show.

The fertility rate in America for the past fifty or so years in longitudinal study of biological twins to biological parents (controls for almost all social factors) tells us that very low IQ people (bottom ten percent) have twice as many children as high IQ people (top ten percent). The rates are even worse when you consider average IQ people (25th-75th) have 1.6 children per female while those in the lowest 10th percentile of IQ have 2.3 children. Those in the 25th-10th have 1.9.

Swifties? Hardly swift nor swiftly.

If you’ve noticed things getting dumber, that because they likely are.

Are you suggesting only stupid people are breeding, Harvey Danger?

I don't think you've ever actually listened to Taylor Swift. I think you know some of her songs, but have you given one of her albums an honest listen from start to finish? If so and you think she's a symptom of a dumber society, so be it. As I said earlier, some people listen and just don't like it. Just curious how much of an effort you've expended listening to her before forming your conclusions.

I’ve listened to enough to draft her in music drafts as far back as 2016 (?) when most people wouldn’t touch it or her. It was 1989, IIRC, and I like the album. I’ve listened to bits and pieces of the later catalogue and I cannot see the hubbub nor the reaction to a negative or questioning opinion as strong as hers. It’s unique for sure.

eta* It's the Red album. I always liked the song and still do. I thought it was cheekily funny. So we're talking 2012 here.

 

[rockaction]

Post in thread 'MixTape Draft - 6+ word titles. Finish your draft and listen to mixes!'

Mar 19, 2017

I'm now going to make an un-Spotifiable selection that will hopefully go over (and it should, because it won't muck up the playlist). If you're going to blow up a school (see round 17) we need the girl he loves in that school to at least break up with him for conscience's sake.  What a psycho. So, who better than the queen of break-ups? I'll make a Spotifiable selection at the end of the draft so that I have a 20-song mix to put together. But for now...

18 - Taylor Swift - We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together

Link

• rockaction

 

[Jayrod]

Mariah Carey should have been in over Cher. She was incredible in the 90's and early 2000's and had a run as the undisputed queen of all of the pop divas for like 6-8 years.

That said, Swift is my vote. What I appreciate is her volume of songs while still making a lot of hits. I don’t like artists that don't try to make music on a regular basis (as long as it isn't all crap).

 

[rockaction]

I'd also like to say that I don't dislike Taylor Swift at all. I once was an actual defender of hers before it was en vogue to say anything positive. But now (not so much now as three years ago) I think the adulation is way overblown and a bit dangerous, actually. It's not healthy for that many people to be in thrall to an entertainer that sings about dating and relationships and some other topical stuff that one could get in a freshman seminar or even just a good magazine. It's not rapturous. It's a little strange. And I don't think it's a gendered comment. I think bands that have that big of a following are a little weird.

I don't think I'm alone or a right-winger stomping his feet. Ken Kesey and the Merry Pranksters disliked The Beatles back in '65 (?) because he saw the adulation as proto-fascist. It's an odd thing. I guess maybe it's just my emotional temperature or temperament, but I don't think it's healthy and isn't commensurate with her talent or her intelligence.

And I'm not calling fervent fans dumb as individuals. I'm calling the whole thing a little bit indicative of a low-IQ massed movement, if that makes sense.

eta* And I find any pop movement that becomes either massive or sociopolitical very problematic in general. I mean, you can see my work about Charli XCX before the "brat" summer here. Compared to other female stars, she had faded into borderline anonymity in the club scene. If you click the link you’ll see me avatar and They Might Be Giants play on words. So I don't think my response is gendered at all.

Charli XCX, one of the best modern pop stars

So synth pop is not my favorite but I have found some superior albums over the years I take it you know Violator...? Worth checking out if somehow you...

forums.stevehoffman.tv

I continue in that thread to be very impressed with her new stuff. Then "brat" summer happens and I blanched and ceased to comment.

Charli XCX, one of the best modern pop stars

I quite like the PC Music/AG Cook releases. I like 2019 Charli release quite a bit. The new stuff I find too mainstream and not that interesting. The...

forums.stevehoffman.tv

 

[Zow]

Probably not pop, but Dolores O’Riordan is the greatest female singer of all time.

 

[Don Quixote]

Probably not pop, but Dolores O’Riordan is the greatest female singer of all time.

Needed your help in the albums thread to give The Cranberries some recognition.