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He has world class speed...? (1 Viewer)

ZenoRazon

Footballguy
So many times some TV guy will get excited over some speedy player and it's..."he has world class speed".  We heard that with RGIII, the guy was a 400m hurdler at Baylor, he never had "world class" speed.  We hear it with Lamar Jackson, no he doesn't, not even close.  While Marquise Goodwin**** was an Olympic long jumper and has track speed he could never hang with world class sprinters. 

Tyreek Hill has world class speed, he proved that with a HS 20.14, and a HS 10.19.  There is no doubt if he'd stayed in track he's in that 200m world mix. The Chiefs with  a history of bringing in speed, not like the Raiders who have had a half dozen legit world class speedsters, however.

**** his 10.24 was windy, and  it takes sub 10.20 to kinda talk world class.

There are a lot of fast footballers like a John Ross who  ran a 4.22 40,  but up against real speed like legit world class sprinters possess,  it's not close. They lack  speed endurance, that ability to maintain/sustain a large % of their max velocity/topend is lacking. The 100m is where world class speed comes in, not the 40.

We have seen 30ish or so Olympic caliber speedsters in the NFL, Bullet Bob Hayes from the mid 60's would STILL be the fastest player ever in pro football. His 10;06 ran on a dirt track some 50ish years ago,  the superior time as far as pro football goes.

 
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The raiders signed a gold medalist relay guy in the 90s named James Jett.  He played for a number of years and was a solid deep receiver even though he wasn’t very big.  Sort of like a Mike Wallace although never a primary option

 

ZenoRazon

Footballguy
The raiders signed a gold medalist relay guy in the 90s named James Jett.  He played for a number of years and was a solid deep receiver even though he wasn’t very big.  Sort of like a Mike Wallace although never a primary option
 The first speedy Raider was Bo Roberson a 1960 Olympic long jumper (won silver) a 9.5 sprinter at Cornell. yep....WR.  Then here came Warren Wells a 9.4 WR out of Texas Southern, he along with QB Daryl Lamonica were a fantastic duo.  Wells got popped for drug sales. His stats were amazing.

The first "World Class" sprinter the Raiders had was Colorado's Cliff Branch who belongs in the HOF.

There are countries that can't compare to this, dead serious.

All Time Raiders 100m

lane

1.Cliff Branch  9.2 yards Colorado

2.James Jett 10.16 WV Olympian

3.Willie Gault  10.10 Tenn Olympian

4.Ron Brown  10.06 ASU  Olympian

5.Sam Graddy  10.09  Tenn  Olympian

6.Jacoby Ford  10.01  Clemson

7.James Trapp 10.16 Clemson

8.Alvis Whitted  10.07  NCSt

And they can run a B race,  with guys like Bo Jackson, Rocket Ismail.

 
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rockaction

Footballguy
Interesting topic. I wonder how many football players have indeed had world class speed, how we define it, is it time-relative, etc.  

 

ZenoRazon

Footballguy
Interesting topic. I wonder how many football players have indeed had world class speed, how we define it, is it time-relative, etc.  
As we know the NFL gets it's players from the NCAA.  So what did the guy do there on the track?

All these guys were Olympic sprinters who were ALSO football players, all made some level of NFL impact.

Bob Hayes  Cowboys

Henry Carr Giants

Johnny Jones  Jets

Michael Bates  Seahawks

Ron Brown Rams

James Jett  Raiders

Willie Gault  Bears

Gerald Tinker  Falcons

Larry Burton  Saints

These guys were Olympic sprinters they tried to experiment with, yep, failed.....Frank Budd, Ray Norton, Jimmy Hines, Tommie Smith, Trenton Jackson.

Stone Johnson a RB out of Grambling was a Chief, he died due to injuries in a preseason game, a WR 20.5 cat.

I consider  9.3/10.20 as being world class, on the outer fringes. The list of those running those times is a mile long.

Those at sub10.10.

Trindon Holliday

Jacoby Ford

Alvis Whitted

Darrel Green

Bob Hayes

Ron Brown

Sam Graddy

Have to mention Willie McGee with his WR 9.1 yards.

There have been fast footballers not known for NCAA sprint prowess like, Tony Dorsett, Joey Galloway, Randy Moss, Eric Dickerson, Gale Sayers****

**** his older bro Roger a World Class sprinter, once beat Bob Hayes.

 
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rockaction

Footballguy
I remember a lot of the Raiders from your previous list. This is interesting. I think, if we're to be accurate, it can't be a demarcation of a specific number, but the relative speed to one's peers. 

One thing we know. NFL receivers can be very, very fast.  

How about Deion? Did he ever run track, or just play baseball in the spring?  

 

ZenoRazon

Footballguy
I remember a lot of the Raiders from your previous list. This is interesting. I think, if we're to be accurate, it can't be a demarcation of a specific number, but the relative speed to one's peers. 

One thing we know. NFL receivers can be very, very fast.  

How about Deion? Did he ever run track, or just play baseball in the spring?  
Legendary WR  Don Hutson ran a 9.8 for yards while at Alabama, that was in the 30's, the 100m WR was 9.4 back then.  He had world class speed for that era.  Big John Riggins won the Kansas State HS 100 yards in 9.8,  big John wasn't a world class sprinter.  So....you got it.

Deion is like Herschel Walker and Bo Jackson, he toyed wih track knowing football/$$$$ was his future.

While at FSU Deion ran a 10.26,  but, no doubts if seriously into the sport he's sub 10.15.

TONS of sub 10.20 NFL WR's.

 

Bri

Footballguy
Carl Lewis tried with the Cowboys.

CJ may have.

I think Jeff Badet may

Justin Hunter? Pac man? Someone years ago with the Titans was

That CB steelers and titans that changed his name 3 years ago? He beat some track star in HS meet.

Ted Ginn raced Bolt

Bruce Holt and Hakim were.

There really is a lot, despite your claim. 

 

Bri

Footballguy
The raiders signed a gold medalist relay guy in the 90s named James Jett.  He played for a number of years and was a solid deep receiver even though he wasn’t very big.  Sort of like a Mike Wallace although never a primary option
James Lofton? There's some famous star WR that trainers discuss. As he built muscle he lost speed. It wasn't true but this myth and part of the reason there were twigs coming out of college for a while

 

ZenoRazon

Footballguy
Carl Lewis tried with the Cowboys.

CJ may have.

I think Jeff Badet may

Justin Hunter? Pac man? Someone years ago with the Titans was

That CB steelers and titans that changed his name 3 years ago? He beat some track star in HS meet.

Ted Ginn raced Bolt

Bruce Holt and Hakim were.

There really is a lot, despite your claim. 
Lewis was never a footballer.

CJ?

Jeff Badet?

Justin Hunter was a long jumper at Tenn.

Steelers CB?

Ted Ginn was more of a HS track star, if he ever faced Bolt, that's news to me.

What claim?

 

ZenoRazon

Footballguy
James Lofton? There's some famous star WR that trainers discuss. As he built muscle he lost speed. It wasn't true but this myth and part of the reason there were twigs coming out of college for a while
Lofton was a 27 foot long jumper at Stanford, he had "good speed".
'

 

menobrown

Footballguy
I mentioned him above.

He came right after Bob Hayes, but.....Hayes was a football player with speed, Hines was a track guy they tried to make a footballer out of.......nope~~~~


Sorry did not see Hines mentioned and thought discussion was if an actual in his prime world class sprinter played in the NFL, not if he was actually any good.

 

ZenoRazon

Footballguy
What about Darrell Green?
While at Texas A&I he ran a 10.08 100m, which was one of the fastest times in the world.  He would be the best example of......if not for football what might have been?

He is still the fastest cornerback to ever play the game, the one cat who could cover Tyreek Hill.

He is mentioned above.

 

ZenoRazon

Footballguy
Sorry did not see Hines mentioned and thought discussion was if an actual in his prime world class sprinter played in the NFL, not if he was actually any good.
Cool.

The Dolphins gave Hines a shot he would catch....1.....pass, the guy had no hands or football instincts.

 
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Bri

Footballguy
Badet is on Vikes practice squad. When he transfered to OU it was that he was some track star and played for all Stoops. (off by one but what was said) He was fastest at combine and....idk never read more so I wrote he may above.

Chris Johnson was 4.2 speed and there's highlights that are just OMG fast.

Valentine Antwon Blake and Brice McCain were two CBs that were track guys at one point. Interestingly they always got burned deep

 

ZenoRazon

Footballguy
Renaldo Nehemiah
He is still the fastest WR my Niners ever had, and what a shame Walsh gave up on him so soon. 

He is still the greatest 110 hurdler to play pro football. His 10.17 100m is still the Maryland school record.

At the Penn relays back in the day he spotted Orlando McDaneil (future NFLer ) a solid 10m on a 4x2 anchor, yep, ran him down.

Later in the 4x4 he's behind Villanova's stud 400m man Tim Dale, down.....20!!!!, yep........ran him down~~~~

 
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ZenoRazon

Footballguy
Badet is on Vikes practice squad. When he transfered to OU it was that he was some track star and played for all Stoops. (off by one but what was said) He was fastest at combine and....idk never read more so I wrote he may above.

Chris Johnson was 4.2 speed and there's highlights that are just OMG fast.

Valentine Antwon Blake and Brice McCain were two CBs that were track guys at one point. Interestingly they always got burned deep
Got it.

Chris Johnson ran track at East Carolina, he was like a lot of football/track guys,  he had great acceleration, hence...4.2...but lacked speed endurance, hence 10.3ish for 100m.

 

Bri

Footballguy
Got it.

Chris Johnson ran track at East Carolina, he was like a lot of football/track guys,  he had great acceleration, hence...4.2...but lacked speed endurance, hence 10.3ish for 100m.
You're nitpicking. 10.2 above meets your requirement and CJ lacks endurance at 10.3. One tenth? Cmon now

 

Bri

Footballguy
Good multi talented athlete, but when it comes to just speed, a 10.6 is a solid HS time, unless ya live in Cali/Texas/Florida.
Why do they give hunter that iaaf page? Isn't that for track stars? Potential ones? I thought that was a great resource for track

 

ZenoRazon

Footballguy
You're nitpicking. 10.2 above meets your requirement and CJ lacks endurance at 10.3. One tenth? Cmon now
We see that lack of speed endurance dramatically in his 200m, there he has a 21.28PR.  That is weak.

His 10.38 100m PR is a long ways from a 10.20, actually a mile at that distance.

 

ZenoRazon

Footballguy
Why do they give hunter that iaaf page? Isn't that for track stars? Potential ones? I thought that was a great resource for track
The guy was a good long jumper, that's whu he has a page.  Like all long jumpers he's going to have some speed.

 

Sarlakticacid

Footballguy
Give me a time for someone running, where if they don't make the end zone they die. I listened to a story of a guy running for his life where once the adrenalin wore off he felt to pain of all the muscles he blew out

 

ZenoRazon

Footballguy
Give me a time for someone running, where if they don't make the end zone they die. I listened to a story of a guy running for his life where once the adrenalin wore off he felt to pain of all the muscles he blew out
How about the story of a HS kid who ran back so many kickoffs  to score the offense had a meeting with the coach asking him to take the kid off that team so they could play more?

How about a HS kid who ran a WR 100 yards as a junior, and was the fastest RB in the world. He averaged over 14 yards a carry?  He never played college/pro football.

How about a football team that scored over 2000 points in a five year period giving up less than 50?

How about a Tennessee HS team that went unscored on for a season and, no opponet crossed the 50 yard line on them?

How about a RB who made such a huge impression in his two season pro career he is on that teams Ring of Honor.  He was the most powerful RB I have seen.

 
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habsfan

Footballguy
You're nitpicking. 10.2 above meets your requirement and CJ lacks endurance at 10.3. One tenth? Cmon now
I'm a long time away from my HS days but when I see these HS times, I think "Is this someone holding a stopwatch"? I'm sure human error alone is responsible for some epic tales and lore... 

 

The_Man

Footballguy
I’ve never seen anyone faster than Darrell Green. He won every NFLs fastest man competition he entered, beating Olympians like Ron Brown and Willie Gault. He won the NCAA Division II 100 meters. And he caught Tony Dorsett from far behind. 

I was in the stadium when Michael Johnson won gold in the 200 in Atlanta. It looked impossible for a human to be running that fast, clearly faster than the world’s other fastest people. That’s what Darrell Green looked like on a football field 

 

DropKick

Footballguy
 The first speedy Raider was Bo Roberson a 1960 Olympic long jumper (won silver) a 9.5 sprinter at Cornell. yep....WR.  Then here came Warren Wells a 9.4 WR out of Texas Southern, he along with QB Daryl Lamonica were a fantastic duo.  Wells got popped for drug sales. His stats were amazing.

The first "World Class" sprinter the Raiders had was Colorado's Cliff Branch who belongs in the HOF.

There are countries that can't compare to this, dead serious.

All Time Raiders 100m

lane

1.Cliff Branch  9.2 yards Colorado

2.James Jett 10.16 WV Olympian

3.Willie Gault  10.10 Tenn Olympian

4.Ron Brown  10.06 ASU  Olympian

5.Sam Graddy  10.09  Tenn  Olympian

6.Jacoby Ford  10.01  Clemson

7.James Trapp 10.16 Clemson

8.Alvis Whitted  10.07  NCSt

And they can run a B race,  with guys like Bo Jackson, Rocket Ismail.
Not a surprise...  The Raiders, or more specifically Al Davis, targeted speed.  The man loved the deep game.  "Restore the deep game to the NFL" was his mantra.  Unfortunately for Raider Nation, there is more to football than speed.

While the term "world class speed" might be technically imprecise,  it's accurate enough in the context of football.  Of course, there is track speed and game speed.   Jerry Rice ran a 4.59 before the draft but few (if any) could run with him on the field.

 

Bri

Footballguy
I'm a long time away from my HS days but when I see these HS times, I think "Is this someone holding a stopwatch"? I'm sure human error alone is responsible for some epic tales and lore... 
Yeah but when you get to official stuff and meets, there are several hands and they compare and...it seems as right as can be at those.

I still wonder why we don't just use a motion detector. But I barely ever watch track.

Some of these guys are faster with competition or faster alone. I don't wholly understand.

I used to enjoy these stories but because I raced others as a kid. Casually it's fun. When they get into the details I tend to lose interest

 

Bri

Footballguy
I was in the stadium when Michael Johnson won gold in the 200 in Atlanta. It looked impossible for a human to be running that fast, clearly faster than the world’s other fastest people. That’s what Darrell Green looked like on a football field 
Rcookie Michael Vick for me. He put the ball down, ran straight with no moves, and no one could catch him. 

CJ and Vick and Dante Hall (if not top speed) and that Lions PR...they could be at top speed instantly. It just defied logic for me, like a video game button

 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
I found it odd that the player clocked at the fastest speed this year was Devin McCourty of NE. I never thought he was all that fast. 

 

Uruk-Hai

Footballguy
I’ve never seen anyone faster than Darrell Green. He won every NFLs fastest man competition he entered, beating Olympians like Ron Brown and Willie Gault. He won the NCAA Division II 100 meters. And he caught Tony Dorsett from far behind. 

I was in the stadium when Michael Johnson won gold in the 200 in Atlanta. It looked impossible for a human to be running that fast, clearly faster than the world’s other fastest people. That’s what Darrell Green looked like on a football field 
Green was my first thought when I saw the thread title.

I don't know what Rocket Ismail's official speed times were on a track, but - in pads - he had the most frightening speed for an offensive player I've ever seen. Bo Jackson's a close second.

 

ZenoRazon

Footballguy
I’ve never seen anyone faster than Darrell Green. He won every NFLs fastest man competition he entered, beating Olympians like Ron Brown and Willie Gault. He won the NCAA Division II 100 meters. And he caught Tony Dorsett from far behind. 

I was in the stadium when Michael Johnson won gold in the 200 in Atlanta. It looked impossible for a human to be running that fast, clearly faster than the world’s other fastest people. That’s what Darrell Green looked like on a football field 
But, he only took 6th (somewhere around there) in the NCAA 100m and "world class" speed is the 100m not the 40 or 60.

IF............ the guy had stayed in track he would have been in that100 mix and he also ran a 46 something 400m.

Michael Johnson was a 10.09 100m cat, to go with his 200/400 prowess, he still holds the American records there.  His speed endurance on a whole other level.

 
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ZenoRazon

Footballguy
Green was my first thought when I saw the thread title.

I don't know what Rocket Ismail's official speed times were on a track, but - in pads - he had the most frightening speed for an offensive player I've ever seen. Bo Jackson's a close second.
The Rocket was a 10.3ish man while at ND.  Like I mentioned somewhere up there he gave the illusion of being far faster than track sprinters on a football field.  That ability to cut, stop and accelerate at near max velocity was amazing.

 

rockaction

Footballguy
Have we thought about what specialization means? What if some of these guys had stayed in track and worked muscles conducive to track and not football? Can we call them "world class speedsters" then? I mean can we assume that with technique and specialization some of these guys don't shave .1 to .15 off of their times? 

I think, in the end, it's really a colloquial way of saying a guy is a speedster among other very fast people.  

 
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ZenoRazon

Footballguy
Have we thought about what specialization means? What if some of these guys had stayed in track and worked muscles conducive to track and not football? Can we call them "world class speedsters" then? I mean can we assume that with technique and specialization some of these guys don't shave .1 to .15 off of their times? 

I think, in the end, it's really a colloquial way of saying a guy is a speedster among other very fast people.  
There is no doubt that any footballer who just messes with track for football would be far faster if he dumped football and just ran track.  Without serious over distance training. like repeat 300's.no sprinter can realize his potential. The key to everything over a 60 is speed endurance.

Sprinters reach their max velocity around 60m, then they enter into that sustain/maintain the jets phase, right there is where that speed endurance kicks in,  how long can a guy hold on to that topend?  Nobody can maintain top speed for more than 20ish meters, then it's how slowly they decellerate,  a guy like Usain Bolt hits that topend later and decellerates less of a 100m because it took him longer to max out.

BUT........we can't be handing out he has "world class" speed because of potential.  A guy runs a 10.34 at TCU doesn't make him "world class".  Sure he might have cooked a 10.16 if he'd stayed his senior season, but......he didn't.

 

ZenoRazon

Footballguy
There is a kid right now at Auburn named Anthony Schwartz, he was the fastest HS kid in the nation a year ago.  Now once track season gets here he's going to be running sub 10.10 as a college frosh, he will have "world class" speed, which a sub 10.10 is.  So when ya hear "he has world class speed", yep, that's a fact.  Now if he loses interest in track for football and just toys with sprinting and never breaks a 10.20, well...................

Wiki

Anthony Schwartz (born September 5, 2000) is an American sprint athlete and college football player. He attends Auburn University in Auburn, Alabama.

Schwartz set a new Boy's World Youth Best of 10.15 seconds over 100 metres on March 31, 2017.[1] (Tyreek Hill a 10.19 in HS)

A native of Pembroke Pines, Florida, Schwartz also played football in high school, and was ranked the No. 22 prospect in the state by Rivals.com.[2] On February 7, 2018, Schwartz signed a national letter of intent to play football and run track for the Auburn Tigers.[3] He played for Auburn during the 2018 season, including their appearance in the 2018 Music City Bowl, where he scored second-quarter touchdown.

 
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squistion

Footballguy
Not a surprise...  The Raiders, or more specifically Al Davis, targeted speed.  The man loved the deep game.  "Restore the deep game to the NFL" was his mantra.  Unfortunately for Raider Nation, there is more to football than speed.

While the term "world class speed" might be technically imprecise,  it's accurate enough in the context of football.  Of course, there is track speed and game speed.   Jerry Rice ran a 4.59 before the draft but few (if any) could run with him on the field.
And this is why game speed may be more important with WRs than track speed, as WRs don't always run in a straight line (with the exception of Jeff Janis).

 

ZenoRazon

Footballguy
And this is why game speed may be more important with WRs than track speed, as WRs don't always run in a straight line (with the exception of Jeff Janis).
Don't forget we have RB's with that World Class speed also.

Guys like....

Jamaal Charles 10.18

Michael Bennett also 10.18

O.J. Simpson 9.4 yards

Buddy Young  AAU/NCAA champ, the roots to it all, all 5-4 of him.

Ollie Matson an Olympic 400m medalist

Curtis Dickey a 10.11 and world ranked while at Texas A&M.

Herschel Walker 10.23

Travis Williams 9.3 yards

Andrew Hopkins  9.2 yards, CFL star.

Cy Leland  a World Record 9.5 way back when at TCU.

Tyreek Hill was a RB as was Bob Hayes, and Trindon Holliday.

 

ZenoRazon

Footballguy
A little off topic......

Both Todd Gurley and Ezekial Elliott were stud HS 110 hurdlers.

Barkley long jumped, and.......threw the shot???

All also ran the 100 but, hmmmm?  Obviously all far faster than their HS 100PR would suggest.

Kareem Hunt not that fast and he was also a high jumper.

 

squistion

Footballguy
Don't forget we have RB's with that World Class speed also.
I haven't forgotten that because the 40 time among RBs at the combine is one of the few statistical measures that correlates with later success in the NFL (the other I recall, from an article a few years back, was the high jump but only for WRs in their 3rd year and many thought that was an outlier).

 

ZenoRazon

Footballguy
I haven't forgotten that because the 40 time among RBs at the combine is one of the few statistical measures that correlates with later success in the NFL (the other I recall, from an article a few years back, was the high jump but only for WRs in their 3rd year and many thought that was an outlier).
Herman Moore the old Lion and Carl Pickens the Bengal WR, Cowboys Alvin Harper were NCAA high jumpers. As was Wilt Chamberlain at Kansas😎

 
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