He has world class speed...? (1 Viewer)

[squistion]

Herman Moore the old Lion and Carl Pickens the Bengal WR, Cowboys Alvin Harper were NCAA high jumpers. As was Wilt Chamberlain at Kansas

That is all very nice, but there is no proof that the best high jumpers make the best WRs. Certainly the taller you are, the bigger advantage you would seem to have, but timing in making the jump while the ball is in the air is probably just as, if not more important.

 

[rockaction]

That is all very nice, but there is no proof that the best high jumpers make the best WRs. Certainly the taller you are, the bigger advantage you would seem to have, but timing in making the jump while the ball is in the air is probably just as, if not more important.

I think he's just making conversation. He's new to the board. You were the one that pointed out the possible correlation between high jumpers and success at WR. 

 

[ZenoRazon]

That is all very nice, but there is no proof that the best high jumpers make the best WRs. Certainly the taller you are, the bigger advantage you would seem to have, but timing in making the jump while the ball is in the air is probably just as, if not more important.

Who said anything about .....best WR's?  Just pointing out a few that did high jump.

There is no one size fits all when it comes to football.  We have seen all kinds of great players.

 

[squistion]

I think he's just making conversation. He's new to the board. You were the one that pointed out the possible correlation between high jumpers and success at WR. 

I was just making conversation too...

 

[rockaction]

I was just making conversation too...

Cool. I read it differently than that. 

 

[ZenoRazon]

Speaking of the high jump....

Bo Jackson was a decathlete while in HS,  a multi time state champ without having to even run the 1500.  What did he high jump, hmmm? 

Hard to believe a guy built like he was.....6-9....in HS.

 

[matuski]

reminds me of Cart Can Fly's Sammy Watkin's Olympic speed claim... because Sammy ran faster than a guy who pulled up short with a hammy in the Olympics.

 

[ZenoRazon]

reminds me of Cart Can Fly's Sammy Watkin's Olympic speed claim... because Sammy ran faster than a guy who pulled up short with a hammy in the Olympics.

Watkins was a 10.45 guy which is a good HS time. Olympic sprinters could give him a head start, dead serious.

 

[matuski]

Watkins was a 10.45 guy which is a good HS time. Olympic sprinters could give him a head start, dead serious.

I realize this.  You had to be there I guess.

 

[ZenoRazon]

I realize this.  You had to be there I guess.

Back in 1976 Texas HS footballer/sprinter Johnny Jones made our Olympic team in the 100m and Arizona HS sprinter Dwayne Evans made the 200m team.  Both made the final with Evans winning the bronze.  And way back in 1924 HSer Francis Hussey blew the Olympic 100m champ Harold Abrahams away on the leadoff of the 4x1 relay.

First female Olympic 100m champ the 16 year old Betty Robinson.

So HS kids have showed up, but rare.

The great Houston McTear ran a WR 9.0 as a HS junior.

 

[Biabreakable]

I don't care about any timed speeds.

Randy Moss the fastest player on the field every time I watched him  play.

 

[ZenoRazon]

I don't care about any timed speeds.

Randy Moss the fastest player on the field every time I watched him  play.

Well he does (or did) hold the Marshall indoor 200m school record at 21.1 something, which is cooking.

The guy only had one real track season that I know of , he ran a few indoor races.

We have another Tony Dorsett, Joey Galloway here, a cat with serious jets who just didn't care about track. Sowe don't have any real speed credentials.

Moss in a 400m with that stride of his?

But, how do we...he has world class speed....without ever actually showing anything to prove that?

 

[Biabreakable]

Well he does (or did) hold the Marshall indoor 200m school record at 21.1 something, which is cooking.

The guy only had one real track season that I know of , he ran a few indoor races.

We have another Tony Dorsett, Joey Galloway here, a cat with serious jets who just didn't care about track. Sowe don't have any real speed credentials.

Moss in a 400m with that stride of his?

But, how do we...he has world class speed....without ever actually showing anything to prove that?

Well Moss ran a 4.25 at the 1998 NFL combine. However it was also reported that he ran times faster than this leading up to the combine, such as a 4.2 and Dennis Green said they clocked Moss as 4.15 seconds in the 40 yard dash.

An article talking about fast NFL players.

 

[ZenoRazon]

Well Moss ran a 4.25 at the 1998 NFL combine. However it was also reported that he ran times faster than this leading up to the combine, such as a 4.2 and Dennis Green said they clocked Moss as 4.15 seconds in the 40 yard dash.

An article talking about fast NFL players.

That article is a great read, one I have read before.  In that top 20 list, the only real legit has ran in world class 100m sprints was Christain Coleman. The number one sprinter in the world today.

Jacoby Ford was a great NCAA sprinter, but knew football was his thing.

There are no 40's ran when it comes to world class track, that is just an American football thing.  If we are going to talk.....world class....it's the 100m. That is the gage right there. Did the guy run a world class 100m?  Which is a sub 10.20, in my opinion, based on years of following both sports.

Tyreek Hill was running sub10.20 in HS, and his 20.14 an amazing time for a HS kid.  Here is legit world class jets.

A 40 is about a great reaction to the gun/go and superior accelleration, not so much about what it takes to be a world sprinter,  that starts after 40 yards. In a 100m the race doesn't even really start until the 60ish when topend/max velocity kicks in.  A fast footballer could hang with Usain Bolt at 40 yards, but once he shifts gears.....see ya.

 

[Biabreakable]

That article is a great read, one I have read before.  In that top 20 list, the only real legit has ran in world class 100m sprints was Christain Coleman. The number one sprinter in the world today.

Jacoby Ford was a great NCAA sprinter, but knew football was his thing.

There are no 40's ran when it comes to world class track, that is just an American football thing.  If we are going to talk.....world class....it's the 100m. That is the gage right there. Did the guy run a world class 100m?  Which is a sub 10.20, in my opinion, based on years of following both sports.

Tyreek Hill was running sub10.20 in HS, and his 20.14 an amazing time for a HS kid.  Here is legit world class jets.

A 40 is about a great reaction to the gun/go and superior accelleration, not so much about what it takes to be a world sprinter,  that starts after 40 yards. In a 100m the race doesn't even really start until the 60ish when topend/max velocity kicks in.  A fast footballer could hang with Usain Bolt at 40 yards, but once he shifts gears.....see ya.

Yeah I realize you can't just extrapolate the 40 time to the 100m result.

In this article Dennis Green is talking about how Moss acceleration is so sudden, that he will get to top speed quickly, which is why they like to use him on crossing routes over the middle of the field.

When a receiver is running a route once they beat the defender they will try to stack the defender behind them, by not running at full speed, then burst at the last moment as the ball arives. Moss was excellent at doing this with his size jumping ability and arms to just beat you that way.

I recall a game where Moss was matched against Darrell Green, and even though Green was near the end of his career he could run with Moss in his prime. 

 

[ZenoRazon]

Yeah I realize you can't just extrapolate the 40 time to the 100m result.

In this article Dennis Green is talking about how Moss acceleration is so sudden, that he will get to top speed quickly, which is why they like to use him on crossing routes over the middle of the field.

When a receiver is running a route once they beat the defender they will try to stack the defender behind them, by not running at full speed, then burst at the last moment as the ball arives. Moss was excellent at doing this with his size jumping ability and arms to just beat you that way.

I recall a game where Moss was matched against Darrell Green, and even though Green was near the end of his career he could run with Moss in his prime. 

In my opinion we have to give Don Hutson his props, obviously Jerry Rice then here comes Randy Moss, three on my WR Mount Rushmore. the other..?

But......we can't talk about anyone having world class speed without those world class credentials.  Moss has none.

Bullet Bob Hayes a 9.3, 9.2, 9.1 World Record holder, a 5.9 60 WR holder, a 20.5 200m WR holder, a 10.06 WR holder.  Olympic 100m gold medalist.  Credentials.

 

[The Fearless]

Prime Desean Jackson was always impressive. Fastest RB in recent memory was Chris Johnson, right?

Jacoby Ford was the reason I whiffed on Tyreek Hill. The speed guys always bust. Except with this kid. Insane.

 

[ZenoRazon]

Prime Desean Jackson was always impressive. Fastest RB in recent memory was Chris Johnson, right?

Jacoby Ford was the reason I whiffed on Tyreek Hill. The speed guys always bust. Except with this kid. Insane.

Jackson another guy without actual speed credentials who always gets big respect for his jets.

Speed guys

Bob Hayes in the Hall of Fame

Cliff Branch should be.

Isacc Curtis a good career

J.D.Hill a solid career

Mel Gray a nice career

Willie Gault could play.

Bob Boyd a 1000 yard season back in the 50's.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Chris Johnson had a 10.39 100m PR, Jamaal Charles was a 10.18 cat at Texas. He;d be the last NFL RB with World Class speed.

 

[The Fearless]

Jackson another guy without actual speed credentials who always gets big respect for his jets.

Speed guys

Bob Hayes in the Hall of Fame

Cliff Branch should be.

Isacc Curtis a good career

J.D.Hill a solid career

Mel Gray a nice career

Willie Gault could play.

Bob Boyd a 1000 yard season back in the 50's.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Chris Johnson had a 10.39 100m PR, Jamaal Charles was a 10.18 cat at Texas. He;d be the last NFL RB with World Class speed.

Nice. Jamaal Charles was the man. He stacked Pro Bowls on top of Pro Bowls.

 

[ZenoRazon]

Nice. Jamaal Charles was the man. He stacked Pro Bowls on top of Pro Bowls.

The only RB in NFL history to average nothing less than a 5,0 for his first 8 seasons, and he was having 1000 yard seasons.

 

[TrackMan84]

I have no doubts he was far faster than his 10.26 by the time he became a pro. 

Rocket Ismail another cat far faster on a football field than on the track.

Interestingly enough Deion ran in the Superstars Competition 100 YARD dash in '90 and was left by Willie Gault (9.4) and "Flipper" Anderson (10.1) and finished about a step and a half ahead of Barry Sanders in 10.3

Ismail ran 10.2 at his Conference meet his SR year in HS and a 10.43 at the Districts which is still the District record but only ran two 100 meter races at Notre Dame and did manage to set the school record at 10.3 and also 6.07 in the 55 meter which was #1 in the WORLD for 3 months in '91! 

 

[Sydboski]

So many times some TV guy will get excited over some speedy player and it's..."he has world class speed".  We heard that with RGIII, the guy was a 400m hurdler at Baylor, he never had "world class" speed.  We hear it with Lamar Jackson, no he doesn't, not even close.  While Marquise Goodwin**** was an Olympic long jumper and has track speed he could never hang with world class sprinters. 

Tyreek Hill has world class speed, he proved that with a HS 20.14, and a HS 10.19.  There is no doubt if he'd stayed in track he's in that 200m world mix. The Chiefs with  a history of bringing in speed, not like the Raiders who have had a half dozen legit world class speedsters, however.

**** his 10.24 was windy, and  it takes sub 10.20 to kinda talk world class.

There are a lot of fast footballers like a John Ross who  ran a 4.22 40,  but up against real speed like legit world class sprinters possess,  it's not close. They lack  speed endurance, that ability to maintain/sustain a large % of their max velocity/topend is lacking. The 100m is where world class speed comes in, not the 40.

We have seen 30ish or so Olympic caliber speedsters in the NFL, Bullet Bob Hayes from the mid 60's would STILL be the fastest player ever in pro football. His 10;06 ran on a dirt track some 50ish years ago,  the superior time as far as pro football goes.

Hayes is not the fastest player ever in pro football and he does not have the fastest 100m time on cinders. That would be 10.03 by Jim Hines during the 1968 AAU championships on Sacramento. Hines went on the the 68 Olympics to become the first human to officially break the 10 second barrier with a 9.95 clocking.