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How The NBA Has Changed (2 Viewers)

modogg said:
i forget which podcast i heard it on, but along the lines of the "hero ball" and how it has changed the game, there was a pretty big change scouts and teams have seen with players and how they are being coached now. They focused mostly on middle and high school age programs, but they talked about how you can walk into a gym with most of these programs and all the kids are practicing 3's. they mentioned how there is a big drop off with FT shooting and percentage with those age groups, and all they are being coached to do is shoot 3's 
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I would think the fundamentals for shooting 3's and free throws should be the same.  It confuses me that free throw percentage is going down while 3 pt percentage is going up.  Could some of that be the sample size for free throws is going down so the misses hurt a lot more?  If you are only shooting 2 FT's a game and miss 1 it's a huge hit to the percentage. 

 
whoknew said:
Now the question is - do mid range jumpers become the new exploitable inefficiency? Mid ranger jumpers are bad because you only make 47% of them (or whatever) so your EV is below 1 point. And you are better off doing a layup or 3. 

But that 47% assumes you are guarded. But teams are starting to switch up how they play defense - asking you to take those mid range jumpers. So can you adjust and exploit that?
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of course at some point that can become the case, but it has yet to prove effective.  LaMarcus Aldridge was a notable exception several years ago.  The Spurs were maybe trying to do this, but it doesn't seem sustainable over the long term.  I don't know that you can get the midrange jumper % up high enough to compete with the 5 ft and in or 3s.

 
Gally said:
That might make the game more interesting though.  A hybrid of college basketball and NFL football could be the next huge sport!
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We created a game like this in 9th grade PE.  Basketball with tackling allowed.  Of course we were told it was a bad decision and were barred from playing it after Blake ended up with 3 cracked ribs.  

I still like to think we were ahead of our time though.

 
Gally said:
I would think the fundamentals for shooting 3's and free throws should be the same.  It confuses me that free throw percentage is going down while 3 pt percentage is going up.  Could some of that be the sample size for free throws is going down so the misses hurt a lot more?  If you are only shooting 2 FT's a game and miss 1 it's a huge hit to the percentage. 
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Shooting a basketball is a combination of mental and physical skills.  Shooting a game speed jump shot, and a free throw where all play is stopped are different both mentally and physically.

 
I have rarely watched the NBA For the last 5 years or so because it is boring.   The players are almost too good and make the game look too easy.   They are incredible athletes that are tall, fast, quick, can dribble well, and shoot from the outside.   They are up and down the court in three steps and operate at a high level in all aspects of the game.   The game needs changed by increasing the size of the ball and raising the hoop.    

 
DocHolliday said:
I have rarely watched the NBA For the last 5 years or so because it is boring.   The players are almost too good and make the game look too easy.   They are incredible athletes that are tall, fast, quick, can dribble well, and shoot from the outside.   They are up and down the court in three steps and operate at a high level in all aspects of the game.   The game needs changed by increasing the size of the ball and raising the hoop.    
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Yup.  I think one of the reasons I like CBB so much is because they are flawed.  I know that may sound weird, but everyone not being great actually makes the game more interesting.  

 
DocHolliday said:
I have rarely watched the NBA For the last 5 years or so because it is boring.   The players are almost too good and make the game look too easy.   They are incredible athletes that are tall, fast, quick, can dribble well, and shoot from the outside.   They are up and down the court in three steps and operate at a high level in all aspects of the game.   The game needs changed by increasing the size of the ball and raising the hoop.    
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I'm not sure about your suggestions to improve it, but this is where I fall.  I feel like the NBA is like if I were watching good high school players playing on an 8 foot nerf hoop.  It's not that the players aren't amazing, it's that the game is too easy for them.  I do agree that it gets better in the playoffs when defense gets kicked up a notch.  But I haven't been able to stay with a regular season nba game in years, and I try all the time.

 
I still like NBA basketball best of all sports. I think the pendulum has swung a bit too far in the direction of emphasizing getting 3 point shots over everything. I'd like to see a bit more diversity in playing styles made viable. I think moving the 3 point line back a bit, and probably getting rid of the corner 3 altogether, would achieve that. The league needs to adjust the rules based on the analytics and try to get things to a point where there's more equilibrium among for the value rate of shots taken at various spots on the floor. I think that would encourage a wider variety of offensive approaches and individual offensive game styles.

 
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Bull Dozier said:
Shooting a basketball is a combination of mental and physical skills.  Shooting a game speed jump shot, and a free throw where all play is stopped are different both mentally and physically.
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I would agree with the mentality part.  The mechanics are mostly same it's just done at a different speed and without the jump part.  The knee bend, ball position, release action are all the same.  You of course do need to practice it to become proficient but it should be a simple mechanical transition and if you are a good 3 pt shooter you should be a good FT shooter. 

 
Bull Dozier said:
Shooting a basketball is a combination of mental and physical skills.  Shooting a game speed jump shot, and a free throw where all play is stopped are different both mentally and physically.
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Plus, they are two different shots.  I never understood why players don't take jump shots from the free throw line.  As long as they don't come down over the line, there's no rule that they can't.  Why practice two different kinds of shots?  Seems so obvious.

 
TheIronSheik said:
Too many to name.  But CBB has made changes over the past 10 years to try and make it more like NBA.  From shot clock times to experimenting with quarters instead of halves.  
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how about just 1 name?

and they changed the shot clock because teams are scoring like 7 points per game

 
TheIronSheik said:
Plus, they are two different shots.  I never understood why players don't take jump shots from the free throw line.  As long as they don't come down over the line, there's no rule that they can't.  Why practice two different kinds of shots?  Seems so obvious.
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Because there's no one trying to block their shot and they're not 25 feet from the basket. Adding a jumping element to the motion increases the complexity/difficulty.

 
Long Ball Larry said:
how about just 1 name?

and they changed the shot clock because teams are scoring like 7 points per game
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No.  They changed it to be closer to the NBA and international rules.  

Of the top of my head, I can't really think of any.  But I'm pretty sure Izzo and Jay Bilas were two of the big names.  Again, not sure.  I can barely remember my kids' names.  And I only have one. 

 
Capella said:
Texas has 18 points at the half Monday night. EIGHTEEN. The #1 team had 25. Again, I love it (for some reason) but it is often extremely unwatchable. 
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I have no problem with these scores.  Teams go hot and cold.  I think that adds to the excitement.  

 
Gally said:
I would agree with the mentality part.  The mechanics are mostly same it's just done at a different speed and without the jump part.  The knee bend, ball position, release action are all the same.  You of course do need to practice it to become proficient but it should be a simple mechanical transition and if you are a good 3 pt shooter you should be a good FT shooter. 
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I think you are underestimating the bolded.  Moving the ball from the shooting pocket to release is the same, but what happens before then is totally different.  It like the different between in swings between a driver, iron, and wedge.  Yes, they are similar, but there are differences you need to practice.

 
Phil Elliott said:
Useless trivia: my father was the one that started tracking offensive and defensive rebounds as part of the ABA. This was then adopted by the NBA. He also used Control Data to computerize the stats while NBA still did them manually. 
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So your dad is basically to blame/credit for the current state of basketball.

 
TheIronSheik said:
Yup.  I think one of the reasons I like CBB so much is because they are flawed.  I know that may sound weird, but everyone not being great actually makes the game more interesting.  
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I think this does play a part for sure. It's also probably why the college players look like they are giving far more effort than the pros - since the pros are able to make plays "effortlessly".

And I do love the fact that most of these college guys will not be pros and thus you have all types of players out there for better and for worse.

 
TheIronSheik said:
Plus, they are two different shots.  I never understood why players don't take jump shots from the free throw line.  As long as they don't come down over the line, there's no rule that they can't.  Why practice two different kinds of shots?  Seems so obvious.
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As someone else stated there is the part of trying to not get your shot blocked but you want everything to be repeatable.  Just like most athletic endeavors repeatable mechanics allow you to be more consistent in what you are doing.  Shooting is the same.  Ideally you want every step to be the exact same.  Jumping is an extra step.  At 15' you don't need the added force from the jump (or ability to shoot over someone) so removing that makes shooting the free throw more repeatable.  If you are able to repeat it then you should be able to make it more consistently.  Same distance every time.  Practice until your body remembers what it has to do to make it.  Eventually you should be able to make free throws with your eyes closed because your body should be doing the same thing every time. 

 
encaitar said:
We created a game like this in 9th grade PE.  Basketball with tackling allowed.  Of course we were told it was a bad decision and were barred from playing it after Blake ended up with 3 cracked ribs.  

I still like to think we were ahead of our time though.
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This sounds like an outdoor sport played on a sponge court.

 
Kuz said:
I may have sent the wrong message.. I'm saying the NHL Playoffs are the best of our top 4 sports.. In my opinion the NBA is almost unwatchable
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NHL won't be a top 4 sport for much longer...

 
Capella said:
I think the idea that the nba plays hero ball is more of a 2005 thing with guys like Carmelo. 
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This is great to know and I why I stopped watching. The playoffs have been great when I tune. My nephew is into it, so we watch. 

 
Joe Bryant said:
:lmao:  It's ok. We're good. 
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Not sure why call attention to your post by making a separate thread for such an obvious statistic.  Just put it in the NBA thread.  #yogapantsforever

 
I really like the current style of play of the NBA.  What I don't like is that the regular season doesn't count for much.  Fix that, and everything is great.

Looking at the current standings vs. subjective judgement of how good teams are...how many teams have anything to play for?

In the East, I'd say only the following:

Boston may have a chance of catching Toronto for 2nd and thus earning one of the easy first round match-ups (Nets or Magic).

Nets and Magic fight for 7th place and the right to avoid Milwaukee.

3rd through 6th don't matter much, and nobody else is likely to catch either the Nets or Magic...so only 4 teams have much of anything to play for...and even those are simply for better match-ups, not playoff spots.

In the West, maybe Denver or the Clippers could catch the Lakers and earn the only easy 1st round match-up.  That said, with the Thunder ahead of Dallas, it's not even clear that moving up near the top of the standings helps a team, 2nd place might "earn" a match-up against Dallas, who are almost certainly the better team when healthy.

There could be a real fight for 8th place...so teams like Phoenix, Portland, New Orleans have a shot at the last spot...but not that great a shot for most of them.

One possible solution that would make exact finishing position more important:

1st place gets all 7 games at home against 8th place.

2nd place gets 6 potential home games against 7th place.

3rd place gets 5 potential home games against 6th place.

4th place vs. 5th place uses the current home/away schedule.

 
I love the NBA.  It has impressive feats occurring almost every single night, from some crazy hot streak out of Dame or Harden to a massive dunk by some role player to a dominating triple double from Doncic or Jokic.  And then there are the two best in the league (one in his 30's near the end of his career and one in his early 20's just getting started) who just consistently make plays on both ends of the floor that almost no one else on the planet could do.

And I haven't even mentioned my beloved Celtics or the Jazz or the Clippers yet who all three play massively different but equally impressive team games.

This is the most exciting year in the NBA for a long time, IMO, because there is serious debates about who will make the Finals and who will win it with teams taking a lot of different approaches based on their personnel.

 
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Haven't watched the NBA in years, at least not since ESPN took a huge interest.   It's promotion of the NBA has pushed me away from them too

Nobody plays D any more, NOBODY  

The Bulls are averaging just over 106 p/gm, and are 25th in the league. 

Guard somebody      NBA sucks 

 
Jayrod said:
I love the NBA.  It has impressive feats occurring almost every single night, from some crazy hot streak out of Dame or Harden to a massive dunk by some role player to a dominating triple double from Doncic or Jokic.  And then there are the two best in the league (one in his 30's near the end of his career and one in his early 20's just getting started) who just consistently make plays on both ends of the floor that almost no one else on the planet could do.

And I haven't even mentioned my beloved Celtics or the Jazz or the Clippers yet who all three play massively different but equally impressive team games.

This is the most exciting year in the NBA for a long time, IMO, because there is serious debates about who will make the Finals and who will win it with teams taking a lot of different approaches based on their personnel.
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Brother! It has been the best season for fans in I don't know how long. It has really been a pleasure. No other sport captivates me like this. I am a little sad the all star break is on us and there won't be big slates to get me through the night for a week +. Steve Kerr said something interesting a month or so back. The talking head made a little joke about the rag tag talent playing for the Warriors, and how Coach Kerr in his prime would be a star on the team he coaches. Kerr seriously answered that at no point in his career could he make an NBA team today. The game is at a much higher level than most observers with old school nostalgia understand. There's guys riding the pine on most teams who would have been all-stars in the 90s. 

 
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EYLive said:
Incorrect. Just because players don't suplex each other anymore doesn't mean they don't play defense. Just last night, the Lakers locked up the Nuggets in Denver. But you won't know since you don't watch the league.
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So "locking up" a team means holding them to 116 pts?  I would guess there were times throughout the game that no real defense was being played.  Players/teams take possessions off on defense all the time during the regular season.  Lebron takes long portions of games off for certain areas (like defense) to save himself over the course of the season.  Defense is hit and miss during the regular season.  Playoffs are typically a different story. 

 
NBA fixes...

Make the court 6 feet wider

Let them play zone D.  

let defenders use hand checks.  NBA D is incredibly good, but it's hard to guard a premier athlete when you cant' touch them

 
Gally said:
So "locking up" a team means holding them to 116 pts?  
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This sort of made me laugh and shake my head too. It sort of makes your point for you. When people nowadays think giving up 116 is somehow lock down defense. Seriously? Proof that defense is no longer allowed. Some of it may be on the players, but 90% of it is the ridiculous rules they are forced to play under nowadays.

 
Couple great games winding down, atm. The game doesn't need any changes. It is healthy, growing in popularity nationally, exploding internationally. I love this game.

 
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