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How will CV affect the NFL? (1 Viewer)

What's great is that as more data comes out, and let's say this 0.04% is the accurate number, and we realize how silly we all are reacting this way, then we can get back to normal with our lives, jobs, sports, etc and we will have learned a valuable lesson (or several) in all of this.

Hopefully this info and these studies won't be blacked out by the media

So to get back on topic, the impact of rona on the NFL is probably minimal (or at least it should be).
Let me take a stab at this. For starters, IMO, people need to ignore the numbers and stats coming out because they are telling an inaccurate or sometimes wrong story. What is going on with COVID is a regional issue with potential national impact. Since it has yet to spread everywhere, the total national numbers will be low. Again, IMO, the government, the media, and even the health experts are doing a poor job explaining things.

The real issue and concern should be on a local, community level. The math SHOULD be as follows: Total # of people requiring hospitalization (for ALL reasons) in the community divided by the total # of hospital beds available in the community.

Here's why the math being reported doesn't work. Yes, in the U.S., there are more total fatalities in a year from the flu (call it 50,000). Yes, in the U.S., there are more fatalities in a year from motor vehicle accidents (call it 35,000). Combined, that adds up to 85,000 deaths per year. There are 5,600 hospitals in the U.S. There are also 12 months in a year. Now do the math. On average, between the flu and motor vehicle accidents, that works out to an average of 0.85 fatalities per month per hospital. (Yes, some hospitals would see 0 and some may see 20 . . . but that's not really the point.)

Now let's look at COVID. Sure, lots of places don't have much going on so a lot of this looks like the precautions are overkill. But WHERE it is happening is the problem. I live 3 hours from NYC and 1 hour from Boston. My wife (knee deep in this) just got off a conference call. The number of cases and hospitalizations in Boston is doubling every 2 days. There are tens of thousands of people working on this. They have seen a road map of how things have spread in lots of other places by now. We are no different than everywhere else that has had an outbreak. We aren't going to wake up here and have the virus just disappear. The storm is still percolating.

I can tell you that at least around here, they don't really care about testing, who tests positive, who is in quarantine, etc. They only care that when people get sick enough, they need to have someplace to put them. If someone happens to test positive (if they can even get a test and get their results back within two weeks), they are either not sick enough to require treatment or they need a hospital bed. So they mentally have cut out all the testing and test result issues and only care about who needs a hospital bed.

We have already seen in plenty of other places around the world what happens when there are more patients than places to treat them. The other issue is that there are not enough healthcare workers to treat the number of required hospitalizations. Mind you, there are plenty of other sick people out there . . . heart attacks, strokes, accidents, overdoses, emergency surgeries, our old friend the flu, etc. The other concern is if hospitals have to go at 200% capacity (if not more), the workers aren't safe and are likely to get sick themselves (or worse).

If you (or anyone else) happens to live where the virus isn't a problem, congrats . . . for now. Where I live, they are planning this out and mobilizing lots of resources. Within 10 miles of my house, they have emptied out a large nursing home, a high school, and a college and are converting them to temporary emergency hospitals. They are battening down the hatches and are expecting thousands of people needing hospitalization. That may not matter to people that are living in Utah or New Mexico, but it matters a lot to people living smack dab in the middle of that area.

Lets go back to our friend the flu (and his cousin motor vehicle fatalities) As I mentioned, hospitals across the country, on average, saw less than one fatality a month to come up to that total of 85,000. In places with a COVID outbreak, they will see WAY more fatalities in a month than that 0.85 a month number. Italy has been seeing 500+ fatalities per day. Spain and the UK aren't far behind and NYC will likely pass everywhere soon (at least in total cases and hospitalizations). It's also too soon to tell what the fatality rate in NYC is, as it can take weeks for people to either slot into the RECOVERED category or the DECEASED category. And mind you the death rate for other non-COVID medical conditions should also be higher. Similarly, once the hospitals in NYC go past capacity, the death rate will escalate as well. NY/NJ could have ended up having more fatalities on their own than the entire country did for the flu for a year. (Unlikely, but if left unchecked it could have tracked that way). Which begs the question, if there were 50,000 fatalities in a city with 8 million people, that's only a total fatality rate of 0.6% . . . is that such a small number that no one should care?

The reason why all of us are doing a whole lot of nothing right now is to prevent what is happening in NYC in every other city in the country. How to prevent that is above my pay grade. We are already trying the shelter in place and social distancing part (which hopefully will work). I would guess minimizing travel would be next on the list. But I can tell you in my section of the country, no way, no how should they be thinking about trying to play baseball, basketball, hockey, or football right now in places like NYC, NJ, or Boston.

Maybe there is a work around where they take teams from hot zones and make them play a season without any home games. Maybe it's as simple as making New England play as the Boise Patriots for a season. However, those teams might want no part of that, especially if it got to the point where they had to play road games with full attendance and they couldn't play at home even without fans.

But the big concern should be that if they start saying "everything is fine" except for a few places (not just sports . . . I mean everything), and suddenly places like Denver, KC, San Antonio, and Atlanta turn into New York, it will be WAY harder to keep the virus in check if it gets out everywhere.

Overall, IMO, we need to see where we are in a few weeks once the virus gets a head of steam going, not BEFORE it starts going nuts. But IMO, having a sports team play in Boston and then go on the road to Minnesota doesn't seem like a smart thing to do. Like anyone else, who knows when the right time would be to say that would be a safe and good idea.

 
Do you dispute what the study of testing an entire Italian province found (healthy and sick)? I'm pretty sure they knew how many people died in the entire province. Do you disagree with what Stanford professors are saying? I thought you were people of science, not hyperbole and stories

As more research comes out its showing the early numbers were way off and not even accurately counting actual cases. And that makes sense now that we know so much more about the virus. and how people can have it and have zero symptoms.

Furthermore, the virus attacks the lungs, causing complications when paired with comorbidities, resulting in death for an estimated 0.01% of cases in the united states. If you dont have symptoms, how can you die from complications when combined with comorbidities? 

ETA: Just to be clear that I know what you're saying... you're suggesting people may not have any symptoms but still die from this disease? And those deaths are in such great number that it takes the 0.01% estimated mortality rate and turns it into what, 3.4% Where are these tens or hundreds of thousands of people dropping dead, otherwise healthy, and why havent we heard of this?

If you truly believe what you posted, and you cant believe the science behind all of this, then theres no sense in continuing to converse with you on this. Continue to push the narrative
I will just point out that .014% of Italy's total population has already died. Not including deaths triggered by but not attributed to coronavirus. And the death rate does not seem to be declining yet. So the fact that one researcher made a bunch of assumptions which project the death rate as low as 0.01% does not mean that is a "fact", and, in fact, the closest thing to a fact we have is that the death rate is pretty clearly higher than 0.01%. And if you want to believe the one researcher and not all the other researchers, perhaps your reasoning is motivated rather than logical.

 
I'm feeling more optimistic regarding the NFL season. It appears this is going to peak in next 3 to 4 weeks. What is causing the panic right now is the fear of Hospitals being over run during this spike. Also, the lack of knowledge regarding the true death rate and whether or not this thing will mutate. So far there has been a lack of mutation but we are dealing with a small sample size. Basically, we are going to need  better than expected news from a bigger sample size of data. 

I think all sports going forward this year will require some major thinking outside the box solutions. Sports are too big not to continue. I think we are going to know a lot more in about 3 weeks. It could take a turn for the worse or we may be pleasantly surprised.

 
I'm feeling more optimistic regarding the NFL season. It appears this is going to peak in next 3 to 4 weeks. What is causing the panic right now is the fear of Hospitals being over run during this spike. Also, the lack of knowledge regarding the true death rate and whether or not this thing will mutate. So far there has been a lack of mutation but we are dealing with a small sample size. Basically, we are going to need  better than expected news from a bigger sample size of data. 

I think all sports going forward this year will require some major thinking outside the box solutions. Sports are too big not to continue. I think we are going to know a lot more in about 3 weeks. It could take a turn for the worse or we may be pleasantly surprised.
Cool, some football talk, thanks.

 
Did you read the article?

Italy's death rate from the virus is estimated at 0.04% not 0.01%
I'm saying that over 0.01% of the entire population is already dead. And we don't know how bad it will get but it will probably be more than 0.04% of the entire population. And not the entire population is infected so the death rate is some unknown multiple of the actual deaths.

And that's with a population that's been social distancing for almost a month now.

 
I for sure remember that flu outbreak from that year when hospitals got so overwhelmed that even after quarantining people for weeks hospitals in some areas had to just decide that if you were like over 60 or something you'd have to hopefully recover on your own or just die.

 
Cool, some football talk, thanks.
I love how doggedly you're trying.

Here's a football question - Who's a small school no name guy that doesn't get drafted because of this that goes on to Priest Holmes his way into a huge fantasy career?

 
I love how doggedly you're trying.

Here's a football question - Who's a small school no name guy that doesn't get drafted because of this that goes on to Priest Holmes his way into a huge fantasy career?
Arian Foster?

Edited:  Can't be him, you said small school  Who is it?

 
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I love how doggedly you're trying.

Here's a football question - Who's a small school no name guy that doesn't get drafted because of this that goes on to Priest Holmes his way into a huge fantasy career?
I don't have an answer to your specific question. I do think a lot of players will suffer from this. I also think that certain teams who are ahead of the scouting game may benefit greatly from this in terms of competitive advantage. I think this could work the other way with some players being over drafted. The teams with better organizations will probably thrive during this time. This is a drag for those players who were counting on their pro day's to show their stuff. I still think teams and players are gonna figure out creative ways to bridge this gap. 

 
Let me take a stab at this. For starters, IMO, people need to ignore the numbers and stats coming out because they are telling an inaccurate or sometimes wrong story. What is going on with COVID is a regional issue with potential national impact. Since it has yet to spread everywhere, the total national numbers will be low. Again, IMO, the government, the media, and even the health experts are doing a poor job explaining things.

The real issue and concern should be on a local, community level. The math SHOULD be as follows: Total # of people requiring hospitalization (for ALL reasons) in the community divided by the total # of hospital beds available in the community.

Here's why the math being reported doesn't work. Yes, in the U.S., there are more total fatalities in a year from the flu (call it 50,000). Yes, in the U.S., there are more fatalities in a year from motor vehicle accidents (call it 35,000). Combined, that adds up to 85,000 deaths per year. There are 5,600 hospitals in the U.S. There are also 12 months in a year. Now do the math. On average, between the flu and motor vehicle accidents, that works out to an average of 0.85 fatalities per month per hospital. (Yes, some hospitals would see 0 and some may see 20 . . . but that's not really the point.)

Now let's look at COVID. Sure, lots of places don't have much going on so a lot of this looks like the precautions are overkill. But WHERE it is happening is the problem. I live 3 hours from NYC and 1 hour from Boston. My wife (knee deep in this) just got off a conference call. The number of cases and hospitalizations in Boston is doubling every 2 days. There are tens of thousands of people working on this. They have seen a road map of how things have spread in lots of other places by now. We are no different than everywhere else that has had an outbreak. We aren't going to wake up here and have the virus just disappear. The storm is still percolating.

I can tell you that at least around here, they don't really care about testing, who tests positive, who is in quarantine, etc. They only care that when people get sick enough, they need to have someplace to put them. If someone happens to test positive (if they can even get a test and get their results back within two weeks), they are either not sick enough to require treatment or they need a hospital bed. So they mentally have cut out all the testing and test result issues and only care about who needs a hospital bed.

We have already seen in plenty of other places around the world what happens when there are more patients than places to treat them. The other issue is that there are not enough healthcare workers to treat the number of required hospitalizations. Mind you, there are plenty of other sick people out there . . . heart attacks, strokes, accidents, overdoses, emergency surgeries, our old friend the flu, etc. The other concern is if hospitals have to go at 200% capacity (if not more), the workers aren't safe and are likely to get sick themselves (or worse).

If you (or anyone else) happens to live where the virus isn't a problem, congrats . . . for now. Where I live, they are planning this out and mobilizing lots of resources. Within 10 miles of my house, they have emptied out a large nursing home, a high school, and a college and are converting them to temporary emergency hospitals. They are battening down the hatches and are expecting thousands of people needing hospitalization. That may not matter to people that are living in Utah or New Mexico, but it matters a lot to people living smack dab in the middle of that area.

Lets go back to our friend the flu (and his cousin motor vehicle fatalities) As I mentioned, hospitals across the country, on average, saw less than one fatality a month to come up to that total of 85,000. In places with a COVID outbreak, they will see WAY more fatalities in a month than that 0.85 a month number. Italy has been seeing 500+ fatalities per day. Spain and the UK aren't far behind and NYC will likely pass everywhere soon (at least in total cases and hospitalizations). It's also too soon to tell what the fatality rate in NYC is, as it can take weeks for people to either slot into the RECOVERED category or the DECEASED category. And mind you the death rate for other non-COVID medical conditions should also be higher. Similarly, once the hospitals in NYC go past capacity, the death rate will escalate as well. NY/NJ could have ended up having more fatalities on their own than the entire country did for the flu for a year. (Unlikely, but if left unchecked it could have tracked that way). Which begs the question, if there were 50,000 fatalities in a city with 8 million people, that's only a total fatality rate of 0.6% . . . is that such a small number that no one should care?

The reason why all of us are doing a whole lot of nothing right now is to prevent what is happening in NYC in every other city in the country. How to prevent that is above my pay grade. We are already trying the shelter in place and social distancing part (which hopefully will work). I would guess minimizing travel would be next on the list. But I can tell you in my section of the country, no way, no how should they be thinking about trying to play baseball, basketball, hockey, or football right now in places like NYC, NJ, or Boston.

Maybe there is a work around where they take teams from hot zones and make them play a season without any home games. Maybe it's as simple as making New England play as the Boise Patriots for a season. However, those teams might want no part of that, especially if it got to the point where they had to play road games with full attendance and they couldn't play at home even without fans.

But the big concern should be that if they start saying "everything is fine" except for a few places (not just sports . . . I mean everything), and suddenly places like Denver, KC, San Antonio, and Atlanta turn into New York, it will be WAY harder to keep the virus in check if it gets out everywhere.

Overall, IMO, we need to see where we are in a few weeks once the virus gets a head of steam going, not BEFORE it starts going nuts. But IMO, having a sports team play in Boston and then go on the road to Minnesota doesn't seem like a smart thing to do. Like anyone else, who knows when the right time would be to say that would be a safe and good idea.
It is everywhere, though. You make a lot of good points and not trying to take away from it, but zoom into the view of the United States and try saying there is an area that isn't a problem. If you're not backpacking the Rockies or something. We are already in a time that is way AFTER it has become a problem.

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

This is relevant to football because we're all trying to figure this out together. I read a promising article suggesting the mutations are actually not that bad, and may lead to people being immune for much longer. That's great news. Especially for sports. https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/25/820998549/the-coronavirus-is-mutating-but-that-may-not-be-a-problem-for-humans?fbclid=IwAR1E594XBCIGWEVwsSHRwabsCFjLNYLp2H3Uvwo2hc4U-BDO9hqnby4wx68

I've been tracking the John Hopkins site above for over a week now and following the numbers. Yes we know they are misleading and tell a grey story, at best. This virus has an R factor of 2.5-3.0, while regular influenza has a rate of about 1.3. This thing is dramatically more contagious than the flu, and for now the mortality rate is still quite high, though yes we know it will come down once all the people who haven't been tested were to be included in it somehow. Keep in mind that this burden on the hospitals is not just from this virus but ON TOP OF THE FLU. It's not just a question of how much flu burden can the hospitals handle, it's how much can they handle ON TOP OF THAT!!!

Now there is a ton of grey area in figuring out who hasn't been tested (for either this or the flu), and therefore who makes up the denominator in the mortality rate. But the numerator is incredibly precise. Death counts tend to be remarkably accurate. 

New deaths in Italy, per my tracking of the JH site above (when reported):

Today - 662
Yesterday - 683
-2 days - 743
-3 days - 605
-4 days - 651
-5 days - 793

It's possible the trend there has plateaued but the new infections are still going up each day. The new infections represent people that contracted the virus as long as 12 days ago. So if there is going to be any discernible improvement in numbers, there will be about a 2 week delay after the shelter in place rules went into effect. So a lot of people are really hoping to see Italy turn a corner here this week or next. So far that isn't happening. 

It's been said the US is about 10 days behind Italy but we overtook their trend about 5 days ago. We are exploding in terms of increased infections (as much as 12 days old) and new deaths. 

****Yes I know all these numbers will look different a year from now when we factor in all the people that have had it and didn't get sick or didn't die, and or weren't tested.****

Right now the mortality rate is ~4.5% worldwide, over 10% in Italy, and in the US it is 1.5% and rising. But probably only because the number of deaths is outpacing the testing capacity. 

Italy will hit over 10,000 dead this weekend probably, and it will have been done in a remarkably shorter amount of time than what the flu takes 6 months to do, without having the benefit of intense social distancing measures.

Ok rant over. I'm hopeful the draft happens next month. 

 
Ravens team president **** Cass expects the coronavirus pandemic to lead to the cancellation of all offseason activities. 

“I just don’t think the OTAs are going to happen at all,” Cass said. “I hope I’m wrong. I’m hoping we can get some players in (the facility) in June, but I’m sort of doubtful of that.” Cass said training camp was the most realistic return date for team activities. Evan that, of course, is far from certain in the most uncertain of times. For now, the NFL is steaming ahead with the draft even though many of the league's general managers are reportedly unhappy with the decision. The executives feel they need more time to prepare with the lack of Pro Days and in-person evaluations.  

 
That link went down (lol) but I believe I saw elsewhere that this model had projected the deaths in the UK at 500k and the US 2M, yet it's now updated to show about 20k deaths in the UK instead?  Only off by 95%.  The numbers are always only going to be reliable as those that produce them, and this outlines the danger of acting entirely based upon mathematics/statistical models and analyses versus reality.  Anyway, agreed, great great news for the NFL and all other pro sports.  I think late May/early June is a possibility but I'm a "conspiracy theorist" in regards to the overall severity of this.

ETA: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/imperial-college-scientist-who-predicted-500k-coronavirus-deaths-in-uk-revises-to-20k-or-less?fbclid=IwAR1orYkWLSl9mW2_oOy9n6zUfCZu9m_s5NlHbla4M6qC_LEOz4729DKGHwY

 
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NFL draft to go on pas scheduled April23-26 based on a letter Goddell sent to the owners. Prospects and families not being brought in. Will still be televised.

 
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Dr. Dan said:
c'mon, man. the researcher specifically states at the bottom of the article that the revision is purely a function of the social distancing measures and other interventions put into place. He also says the virus is MORE transmissible and so MORE lethal than they suspected. This is a terrible headline. 

If the leaders of the entire world are closing down their economies and throwing away trillion of dollars by asking people not to work, you have got to conclude that the alternative is worse. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but why do you think you know what is happening better than the best minds all over the planet? You have to know that sounds delusional. They have access to information that you do not. They're the sharps.  

 
c'mon, man. the researcher specifically states at the bottom of the article that the revision is purely a function of the social distancing measures and other interventions put into place. He also says the virus is MORE transmissible and so MORE lethal than they suspected. This is a terrible headline. 

If the leaders of the entire world are closing down their economies and throwing away trillion of dollars by asking people not to work, you have got to conclude that the alternative is worse. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but why do you think you know what is happening better than the best minds all over the planet? You have to know that sounds delusional. They have access to information that you do not. They're the sharps.  
yep

 
c'mon, man. the researcher specifically states at the bottom of the article that the revision is purely a function of the social distancing measures and other interventions put into place. He also says the virus is MORE transmissible and so MORE lethal than they suspected. This is a terrible headline. 

If the leaders of the entire world are closing down their economies and throwing away trillion of dollars by asking people not to work, you have got to conclude that the alternative is worse. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but why do you think you know what is happening better than the best minds all over the planet? You have to know that sounds delusional. They have access to information that you do not. They're the sharps.  
You are clearly not familiar with the poster you’re quoting 

 
c'mon, man. the researcher specifically states at the bottom of the article that the revision is purely a function of the social distancing measures and other interventions put into place. He also says the virus is MORE transmissible and so MORE lethal than they suspected. This is a terrible headline. 

If the leaders of the entire world are closing down their economies and throwing away trillion of dollars by asking people not to work, you have got to conclude that the alternative is worse. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but why do you think you know what is happening better than the best minds all over the planet? You have to know that sounds delusional. They have access to information that you do not. They're the sharps.  
I noticed that too. But Ferguson doesn't have to admit his model is flawed for it to be so. It's more transmissible than he thought, more people have than he thought, and he admitted as much. So the death rate he used was not correct. The 2 million deaths in the U.S. predicted by is model is off. 

I sort of get what your saying about trusting the experts, but we shouldnt replace our own reason. What the guy proposes is a lockdown of most of a full year, which would have it's own consequences. Here is a great article outlining how we should be continuing research so to test the assumptions Ferguson used in his model. We could avoid the consequences of unnecessarily shutting down the world economy for that long. We have the ability to find out more about covid19, and we should since new studies have shown it's not quite the death sentence we (and Ferguson) thought at the beginning. 

 
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I noticed that too. But Ferguson doesn't have to admit his model is flawed for it to be so. It's more transmissible than he thought, more people have than he thought, and he admitted as much. So the death rate he used was not correct. The 2 million deaths in the U.S. predicted by is model is off. 

I sort of get what your saying about trusting the experts, but we shouldnt replace our own reason. What the guy proposes is a lockdown of most of a full year, which would have it's own consequences. Here is a great article outlining how we should be continuing research so to test the assumptions Ferguson used in his model. We could avoid the consequences of unnecessarily shutting down the world economy for that long. We have the ability to find out more about covid19, and we should since new studies have shown it's not quite the death sentence we (and Ferguson) thought at the beginning. 
Either way, mass testing can answer so many of these problems for us. As long as we're throwing trillions around, seems like we should order mass produce a few kits.

 
c'mon, man. the researcher specifically states at the bottom of the article that the revision is purely a function of the social distancing measures and other interventions put into place. He also says the virus is MORE transmissible and so MORE lethal than they suspected. This is a terrible headline. 

If the leaders of the entire world are closing down their economies and throwing away trillion of dollars by asking people not to work, you have got to conclude that the alternative is worse. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but why do you think you know what is happening better than the best minds all over the planet? You have to know that sounds delusional. They have access to information that you do not. They're the sharps.  
People have been quoting the original article calling for 2.2 million dead in the US and 500K dead in the UK. I'd say it's good news for instance that only 20k are projected to die in the UK. The idea that this virus may be more out there than we first thought is a good thing. It means the death rate is lower and it means that more people are immune. It's also showing that the social isolation is working. 

I still think we are a couple weeks away from really knowing what to expect. I am not confident enough to start diving into my fantasy football research just yet. I wanna,  but I don't feel great about the season just yet. Right now I'd say I'm at 35% we are gonna have an NFL season on my confidence level. Obviously, I know nothing right now. 

 
I know this is supposed to be about football, but viruses don't care about football. They care about survival, just like we should. Viruses don't know borders, constitutions, formalities, gathering times and places, anything. This is ante-football. There's nothing that we can hope or wish away. It will run its course when it has run its course. Its toll shall be its toll. Football is such a bad idea, such a waste of energy right now, aside from the necessary mental diversion.

But saying, "we're talking football," or some garbage similar, shows a basic lack of understanding of simple priorities and basic rank orderings. 

 
I know this is supposed to be about football, but viruses don't care about football. They care about survival, just like we should. Viruses don't know borders, constitutions, formalities, gathering times and places, anything. This is ante-football. There's nothing that we can hope or wish away. It will run its course when it has run its course. Its toll shall be its toll. Football is such a bad idea, such a waste of energy right now, aside from the necessary mental diversion.

But saying, "we're talking football," or some garbage similar, shows a basic lack of understanding of simple priorities and basic rank orderings. 
yep. and all this back and forth about mortality rates is irrelevant.  the collateral damage from the peaks this is causing/going to cause upon our health care systems is the problem.  i can’t believe people are still debating this point so far along into this thing. 
 

be safe everyone.  we are in for a rough time over the next couple of months. 

 
I know this is supposed to be about football, but viruses don't care about football. They care about survival, just like we should. Viruses don't know borders, constitutions, formalities, gathering times and places, anything. This is ante-football. There's nothing that we can hope or wish away. It will run its course when it has run its course. Its toll shall be its toll. Football is such a bad idea, such a waste of energy right now, aside from the necessary mental diversion.

But saying, "we're talking football," or some garbage similar, shows a basic lack of understanding of simple priorities and basic rank orderings. 
There are plenty of threads about the virus and no football in the political forum.

 
Fine. I will make a football opinion. I think teams with the most continuity from last year to this year will fare better. Teams trying to integrate new coaches, systems, and players will struggle if there is a reduced timeframe to get to playing real games. Teams making a lot of changes will be behind the 8 ball if there is a reduced offseason, shorter training camp, and a lot fewer practices. 

 
yep. and all this back and forth about mortality rates is irrelevant.  the collateral damage from the peaks this is causing/going to cause upon our health care systems is the problem.  i can’t believe people are still debating this point so far along into this thing. 
 

be safe everyone.  we are in for a rough time over the next couple of months. 
Mortality rates, hospitalization rates, one is larger but they are correlated. The hospitalization rate is absolutely relevant to the toll it will have on the healthcare system. Not accurately estimated how many people have the virus makes this ratio inaccurate. In this case, it appears they've underestimated the number of carriers and possibly what stage we are in. Thus would alter the load on our healthcare system. 

 
Do you understand it's impossible to talk about football and not talk about the virus? In a thread you started specifically about the intersection of the two?
Do you understand it is possible to talk about the virus and football as they relate to each other?

 
rockaction said:
I know this is supposed to be about football, but viruses don't care about football. They care about survival, just like we should. Viruses don't know borders, constitutions, formalities, gathering times and places, anything. This is ante-football. There's nothing that we can hope or wish away. It will run its course when it has run its course. Its toll shall be its toll. Football is such a bad idea, such a waste of energy right now, aside from the necessary mental diversion.

But saying, "we're talking football," or some garbage similar, shows a basic lack of understanding of simple priorities and basic rank orderings. 
This thread is specifically talking about how the Coronavirus will affect football. I would say the top priority here is how the Coronavirus will affect football. I think most of us understand the magnitude of what is going on right now with the outbreak. I think there is far too much doom and gloom talk out there. You  said it yourself that 'there is nothing we can do about the virus'. I agree, but we can control our attitudes and we can control what we focus our attention on. I think talking football is more important than you might think right now. We need a diversion from all of the negativity we are seeing in the MSM. 

I have moved from 35 to 40% on whether we will have an NFL season. It sounds like baseball is determined to have a season one way  or another. they have talked about extending into December.  Nobody knows how realistic this is since we are not yet at the virus peak. It's good to here they aren't talking about giving up.

 
Dr. Dan said:
Did you read the article?

Italy's death rate from the virus is estimated at 0.04% not 0.01%
It has already killed 0.02% of the entire Italian population (10,000 of 50 million) so I think we can safely say the death rate is at least that?  Maybe not if there was medical treatment capacity for all patients, but we are also not done counting, unfortunately. 

I really really hope the things I said earlier were wrong.  They should be if the proper measure were taken early, but they weren't.  That Stanford research article is interesting and it does seem like there is something missing between how fast they say it spreads and the number of total cases detected, but I don't think that study has a lot of confirmation at the moment. 

The math skills of the general population plus the level of nuance in understanding how this works are a big detriment to handling it properly. 

 
JohnnyU said:
Do you understand it is possible to talk about the virus and football as they relate to each other?
You don't seem to understand that the virus is the underpinning to all things football. You seriously need a massive check up on which determines the other, and therefore, why it is important to figure out how far and deep it will spread without football as the backdrop.

Try it. You'll get it eventually. 

 
I think we will have football. 

Here is how: 

Before long an easy, cheap, fast test will be developed.  The NFL will acquire enough tests for daily testing of every player and team employee.  Players and staff will stay in team supplied housing or otherwise maintain quarantine from non league personnel. 

If you test positive, you're out for 3 weeks or until whatever is deemed long enough, so motivation to stay in quarantine.  The NFL is it's own bubble. 

The country needs the distraction, and the NFL can safely make its money.  The overhead of this will dwarf profits. 

I hope this works. 

If we can, the entire country should take this approach once the tests are widely available.  That is how you stop or slow this without a vaccine. 

 
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I think we will have football. 

Here is how: 

Before long an easy, cheap, fast test will be developed.  The NFL will acquire enough tests for daily testing of every player and team employee.  Players and staff will stay in team supplied housing or otherwise maintain quarantine from non league personnel. 

If you test positive, you're out for 3 weeks or until whatever is deemed long enough, so motivation to stay in quarantine.  The NFL is it's own bubble. 

The country needs the distraction, and the NFL can safely make its money.

I hope this works. 

If we can, the entire country should take this approach once the tests are widely available.  That is how you stop or slow this without a vaccine. 
Hopefully they will have an ability to test for antibodies  to see who is immune. That would clear a lot up regarding the potential loss of playing time to the virus. The teams, league and players are going to have to get creative and make sacrifices for a season to happen. I'm starting to think a 12 game schedule with at least a month delay to the beginning of the year makes sense. The more I think about it, if we are still shut down by the end of the summer then we are screwed anyway's as a society. I'm optimistic that somethings gotta give. 

 
Also the math skills of the British epidemiologist. Even he admitted he was wrong and this is way less of an issue as originally estimated. his model is where the 30x more deadly than the flu came from. He revised that significantly... very significantly 
Yes, that's how science works. People try out different hypotheses, critique each other's assumptions, and investigate the available evidence in an attempt to advance human knowledge.

The way science does not work is when people use motivated reasoning to cherry pick studies which most closely agree with their desired outcome. 

What is your estimate for how many people are going to die in the U.S.? What is your estimate for the difference between that number and the number which would die without protective measures?

 
Well if you haven't heard it, then I guess Trump is making it up. Come on man.

I had heard about the malaria drug "showing promise" in preliminary tests a week before Trump said anything about it. That doesn't make it science. Sometimes a thing has to prove worthwhile before it's even thouroghly tested.
My wife works in public health.  Part of her job right now is educating physicians that there is no known study that shows this drug has any effect on Covid19.  There are at least 3 Chinese studies that have shown no effect. 

So yes, it is BS until proven not to be.  On this world, the burden of proof is on the medication to be effective and not the other way around. If you don't have multiple studies proving that something is effective, it is not. 

 
they're in take lock at this point. I give up. WI MDs are using this drug to treat COVID19, for over a week now. I guess MDs in WI dont know any better than a public health nurse
In New York they're using it a buttload, that's what i heard on the radio anyhow.

 
The life lost in the US is now projected to be much lower, possibly at the level of the flu, maybe 2x worse (and I'm being generous, personally I think it will be less than the flu) without measures taken. Shutting down a nation for that, just silly. They should tell those at risk to shelter in place and social distance while the rest of us get on with our regular lives. 

You're right, science works in an evolving nature. that's why going off the rails on an online forum talking about how horrible this is and stating its 30x worse than the flu is unneccessary, and possibly reckless, when we dont have all the facts. 

As it turns out, those at the beginning, stating this is not as serious as 30x the flu, were correct
We are a few days away from starting to have 1,000+ fatalities per day in the US. Just curious what your acceptable body count is to say the number of dead people is worth playing football? Or are they just collateral damage?

 
How many people die in drunk driving accidents? The flu? I'm not saying it's acceptable that people die, but we dont need to be sheltering in place. This is absurd. 
Is drunk driving contagious? Does it multiply exponentially? Does it take up every hospital bed in hospitals? Does drunk driving kill the doctors and nurses that treat the accident victims?

I already spelled out in detail that this is not the flu and not the same as motor vehicle accidents. 

 
Hi Folks,

This is obviously a super important topic but I'm going to move it out of the Football forum over to the FFA where we've had quite a bit of talk on this.

I know tensions are high on this and the one thing I'd ask is that you please just keep the discussion helpful to others. We need to stick together on this. Thanks. 

 
Let me know when that study is replicated.  It needs to be, the sample size is tiny. Less than 50 total patients in the study if you didn't read it. 

Citing this without confirming that it isn't noise is irresponsible, not that it isn't common practice these days.  If you do 100 of these tiny studies some are going to show something just by randomness and or biased selection of patients (accidentally biased by bad luck, because the sample size makes it impossible to not be) 

I'm also trying to be respectful here just in case the tone of this seems otherwise. 

I'm open to being wrong, and I hope that I am.  That said, I'm going with science and not cherry picking confirmation bias.  If further science proves me wrong I'll be happy to admit it and eat all the crow I deserve. 

 
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The life lost in the US is now projected to be much lower, possibly at the level of the flu, maybe 2x worse (and I'm being generous, personally I think it will be less than the flu) without measures taken. Shutting down a nation for that, just silly. They should tell those at risk to shelter in place and social distance while the rest of us get on with our regular lives. 

You're right, science works in an evolving nature. that's why going off the rails on an online forum talking about how horrible this is and stating its 30x worse than the flu is unneccessary, and possibly reckless, when we dont have all the facts. 

As it turns out, those at the beginning, stating this is not as serious as 30x the flu, were correct
Great job not answering the question.

How many people do you think will die in the U.S., given the countermeasures we are taking? We're at 2,200 and accelerating.

How many people do you think would have died with no countermeasures?

The Imperial College study, by the way, didn't say coronavirus was 30x more deadly than the flu. It said that with no countermeasures, 500K people in the U.K. could die. It urged countermeasures. The U.K. took them. Imperial College now projects that a lot fewer people will die, not because the disease is less deadly than thought but because the U.K. did something about it.

 
I don't see how the NFL can proceed with draft as scheduled. The timing of the draft is basically the same time the virus is expected to peak. I think they have to push it back a month at least. It seams this season if it goes will be delayed anyway. In addition to getting a lot of push back from executives it's just not a good look. 

 
I don't see how the NFL can proceed with draft as scheduled. The timing of the draft is basically the same time the virus is expected to peak. I think they have to push it back a month at least. It seams this season if it goes will be delayed anyway. In addition to getting a lot of push back from executives it's just not a good look. 
They already said they aren't changing the draft. Why can't they do it remotely or in a studio? It's not like they will be putting people in harm's way. It may not be a great look, but it will give people something sports related to watch.

 
I don't see how the NFL can proceed with draft as scheduled. The timing of the draft is basically the same time the virus is expected to peak. I think they have to push it back a month at least. It seams this season if it goes will be delayed anyway. In addition to getting a lot of push back from executives it's just not a good look. 
It's all going to be done remote so pushing it back is just not necessary.

Not sure if you read Roger's latest memo but they are not pushing this back and not only do they not care if every GM wants it pushed back but they threatened them with disciplinary action for even speaking about the draft not taking place on the scheduled date.

It's all systems go.

 
They already said they aren't changing the draft. Why can't they do it remotely or in a studio? It's not like they will be putting people in harm's way. It may not be a great look, but it will give people something sports related to watch.
I want the draft to happen. I think what we are hearing now can change very quickly. I predict it will be pushed back. I hope I'm wrong. I'm basing this on predictions from modeling. Maybe things take a turn for the better. 

 
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