I’m Back! New and Improved! (2 Viewers)

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

And some people are just wired to accept things they're told without honestly considering alternatives. That's not me. 

Uh huh.

Long story short, once I got out of ministry I felt free to ask questions that I couldn’t ask before.

It took you how many decades to start "honestly considering alternatives" to the religion you were indoctrinated into? Forgive us for not wanting to wait another forty years for you to come around to the germ theory of disease. 

 

[CrossEyed2]

Uh huh.

It took you how many decades to start "honestly considering alternatives" to the religion you were indoctrinated into? Forgive us for not wanting to wait another forty years for you to come around to the germ theory of disease. 

I was raised Roman Catholic and walked away from it in my 20s. Got introduced to evangelical Christianity in a serious way in my early 30s, then dug into it enough to get a Master of Divinity and pastor for 8 years. It takes a long time to learn all of the aspects of the Bible, including understanding enough Greek and Hebrew to at least be able to have some idea what the original writings said. By my mid-40s I was seriously questioning what I had been taught and before I was 50 I was completely out of the church for good. Sorry that wasn't fast enough to satisfy you, but a thorough understanding takes time and effort. When I arrive at an understanding it's not flawless but it is thoroughly informed. I didn't leave Christianity because someone offended me or because it just didn't feel right. I left because I dug deep into its foundational texts and discovered that it wasn't what most of its adherents understood it to be. At least what I hold as my beliefs are held because I've taken the time and made the effort to understand it.

As for germ theory, I'm healthier than the vast majority of people around me. So I'll stick with my approach based on my understanding of health. It's working pretty well for me so far. 

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

I was raised Roman Catholic and walked away from it in my 20s. Got introduced to evangelical Christianity in a serious way in my early 30s, then dug into it enough to get a Master of Divinity and pastor for 8 years. It takes a long time to learn all of the aspects of the Bible, including understanding enough Greek and Hebrew to at least be able to have some idea what the original writings said. By my mid-40s I was seriously questioning what I had been taught and before I was 50 I was completely out of the church for good. Sorry that wasn't fast enough to satisfy you, but a thorough understanding takes time and effort. When I arrive at an understanding it's not flawless but it is thoroughly informed. I didn't leave Christianity because someone offended me or because it just didn't feel right. I left because I dug deep into its foundational texts and discovered that it wasn't what most of its adherents understood it to be. At least what I hold as my beliefs are held because I've taken the time and made the effort to understand it.

Yet somehow you were able to deduce that every other religion on earth was false despite not dedicating decades to studying their texts.

Weird.

 

[AAABatteries]

If it works, I don't really give a damn what you or anybody else thinks about it. The placebo effect is well documented. Lots of other things that "modern science" wants to dismiss or explain away work far better than our current western model of medicine/healthcare. We have more chronic disease than ever. Much of the population can't even make it through their daily lives without some type of pharmaceutical product. But people are so enamored by the white coats that they don't dare question the "experts".

A lot of folks around here used to ridicule me for my blind faith. Most of those same folks can't even see that they are victims of the same blind faith...it's just entrusted to a different system.

Keep on keeping on.

I'm all in favor of not pumping drugs in to people but the idea that people don't question the experts is just false - just look at yourself and all the Covid anti-vaxxers.

The reason "people are so enamored by the white coats" is pretty simple -

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/life-expectancy

Modern medicine is a fantastic gift to humankind - just because some abuse it or lean on it too heavily doesn't mean it's hasn't made all of our lives better.

 

[CrossEyed2]

I'm all in favor of not pumping drugs in to people but the idea that people don't question the experts is just false - just look at yourself and all the Covid anti-vaxxers.

The reason "people are so enamored by the white coats" is pretty simple -

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/life-expectancy

Modern medicine is a fantastic gift to humankind - just because some abuse it or lean on it too heavily doesn't mean it's hasn't made all of our lives better.

The advancements that have been made in the areas of transplants, surgeries, and many other aspects of the medical world are truly impressive and I am grateful for that niche of healthcare.

Pharmaceuticals, on the other hand, have become primarily about profits and are pushed too early, too often, and are seen as the best answer by far too many people. They haven't made us a healthier society, they've made us sicker and more dependent on them to function on a daily basis.  If most people would reduce toxins and stress and increase their nutritional intake they would find that they have little to no need for pharmaceuticals (which are mostly toxins) and would feel a hell of a lot better than they do.

 

[AAABatteries]

The advancements that have been made in the areas of transplants, surgeries, and many other aspects of the medical world are truly impressive and I am grateful for that niche of healthcare.

Pharmaceuticals, on the other hand, have become primarily about profits and are pushed too early, too often, and are seen as the best answer by far too many people. They haven't made us a healthier society, they've made us sicker and more dependent on them to function on a daily basis.  If most people would reduce toxins and stress and increase their nutritional intake they would find that they have little to no need for pharmaceuticals (which are mostly toxins) and would feel a hell of a lot better than they do.

I think you are throwing the baby out with the bathwater so to speak.  I'm totally in favor of people reducing stress, eating healthier, getting more sleep, exercise, meditation and several other things that should come first before meds.  But some people didn't hit the genetic lottery and their lives have been changed for the positive due to modern medicine.  And none of this leads to the nonsense about not believing germ theory.  You are hurting your credibility with that last part.  I think you would get a lot of people on board with a lot of the other stuff.

 

[CrossEyed2]

For those who don't think that the modern healthcare system is driven by profits and the pharmaceutical industry, allow me to share a recent experience.

My son is 12. He had a traumatic birth, was in PICU for over a month, had to have a blood transfusion, and I could go on. He came into our care at 11 weeks old as a foster child. 7 months later we adopted him. 

When he was placed with us we found a local pediatrician who has seen him go from a sickly infant to a very healthy 12 year old. The only times he's been to the doctor in the past few years is for his annual well-visit. When he was an infant we were fully bought into the system and he had all of his vaccines on schedule (despite being an underweight premie with significant health issues, but that's a separate discussion). He's had 35 doses of vaccines. 35.

Because of what we've learned along the way we decided that we would prefer that he not receive his last 2 boosters. Can't even recall exactly which ones they are right now. I talked to the school nurse and she let us know that we just need to send her a letter stating our reasons for choosing not to get it. The state of PA allows for exemptions.

But when we informed our pediatrician of almost 12 years of our intention, he informed us that we would no longer be allowed to remain in the practice. We had actually followed him from one practice to another a few years back, so I called the practice we had left. Nope, they wouldn't take us either. Why is that? Money. If they fall under a certain % of "fully vaccinated" patients, it hurts their bottom line.

Fortunately my wife works in healthcare and we were able to find a family practice that was happy to take us. When my wife was asked why we were changing doctors and explained to the new practice what had happened, the woman was shocked. She couldn't believe that a doctor would throw a patient out for simply choosing not to get 2 boosters.

But that's pediatric medicine in America in 2021.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

He's had 35 doses of vaccines. 35.

Wow that must've had some seriously adverse effects on his development. 

we found a local pediatrician who has seen him go from a sickly infant to a very healthy 12 year old. The only times he's been to the doctor in the past few years is for his annual well-visit.

oh

 

[dgreen]

I didn't leave Christianity because someone offended me or because it just didn't feel right. I left because I dug deep into its foundational texts and discovered that it wasn't what most of its adherents understood it to be.

Welcome back.

Can you expand on this. I've heard people provide similar explanations of why they don't believe, but I don't understand how the views of others impacts your view. I assume it's not really about what others believe and more about the things you learned brought in doubt and led to your change in belief? I just don't get how a group of people believing something about Christianity makes you leave Christianity.

 

[CrossEyed2]

Wow that must've had some seriously adverse effects on his development. 

oh

He actually has neurological issues that are listed as side effects from vaccines. But I don't expect you to understand or agree and I'm asking you respectfully to not comment about my son. Some lines should not be crossed. When I said "healthy" I meant he never gets colds, flu, stomach issues, etc. 

 

[CrossEyed2]

Welcome back.

Can you expand on this. I've heard people provide similar explanations of why they don't believe, but I don't understand how the views of others impacts your view. I assume it's not really about what others believe and more about the things you learned brought in doubt and led to your change in belief? I just don't get how a group of people believing something about Christianity makes you leave Christianity.

Thanks! Glad you stopped in.

I may have worded that poorly. What I meant was that I found the Bible to not actually be what it is purported to be and what most people believe it to be. I didn't leave because of what other people believe, I left because I discovered the Bible to be nothing but another flawed book of men. 

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

@CrossEyed2 - are you capable of viewing the “new and improved you” from our perspective?  Do you at least understand the frustration that some posters are having in dealing with you?

 

[AAABatteries]

For those who don't think that the modern healthcare system is driven by profits and the pharmaceutical industry, allow me to share a recent experience.

My son is 12. He had a traumatic birth, was in PICU for over a month, had to have a blood transfusion, and I could go on. He came into our care at 11 weeks old as a foster child. 7 months later we adopted him. 

When he was placed with us we found a local pediatrician who has seen him go from a sickly infant to a very healthy 12 year old. The only times he's been to the doctor in the past few years is for his annual well-visit. When he was an infant we were fully bought into the system and he had all of his vaccines on schedule (despite being an underweight premie with significant health issues, but that's a separate discussion). He's had 35 doses of vaccines. 35.

Because of what we've learned along the way we decided that we would prefer that he not receive his last 2 boosters. Can't even recall exactly which ones they are right now. I talked to the school nurse and she let us know that we just need to send her a letter stating our reasons for choosing not to get it. The state of PA allows for exemptions.

But when we informed our pediatrician of almost 12 years of our intention, he informed us that we would no longer be allowed to remain in the practice. We had actually followed him from one practice to another a few years back, so I called the practice we had left. Nope, they wouldn't take us either. Why is that? Money. If they fall under a certain % of "fully vaccinated" patients, it hurts their bottom line.

Fortunately my wife works in healthcare and we were able to find a family practice that was happy to take us. When my wife was asked why we were changing doctors and explained to the new practice what had happened, the woman was shocked. She couldn't believe that a doctor would throw a patient out for simply choosing not to get 2 boosters.

But that's pediatric medicine in America in 2021.

From my perspective your first paragraph would get a lot of agreement around here but has nothing to do with the reality of germ theory.

I'm curious what your thoughts are on government provide healthcare.

 

[SWC]

in fairness i think if you dont want people to talk about your son you probably shouldnt bring him up in support of your arguments take that to the bank brohan

 

[Gawain]

Deep Dive into Stupid

rejecting germ theory

 

[CrossEyed2]

@CrossEyed2 - are you capable of viewing the “new and improved you” from our perspective?  Do you at least understand the frustration that some posters are having in dealing with you?

Absolutely. I think I explained that in an earlier reply. I don’t expect to “convert” anyone to my way of understanding. But I always hope to encourage anyone who might be on the fence to keep digging. 

 

[CrossEyed2]

From my perspective your first paragraph would get a lot of agreement around here but has nothing to do with the reality of germ theory.

I'm curious what your thoughts are on government provide healthcare.

In theory, I’m not against the government providing healthcare. If it’s going to collect taxes, using it to help keep the population healthier is as good a cause as any. 
 

In practice, I think it’s a mess. Pretty much like everything else the government gets involved with. 

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

@CrossEyed2 - are you capable of viewing the “new and improved you” from our perspective?  Do you at least understand the frustration that some posters are having in dealing with you?

Absolutely. I think I explained that in an earlier reply. I don’t expect to “convert” anyone to my way of understanding. But I always hope to encourage anyone who might be on the fence to keep digging

I was referring more to the way you present yourself and your ideas, rather than the ideas themself.

 

[CrossEyed2]

I was referring more to the way you present yourself and your ideas, rather than the ideas themself.

I tend to be pretty matter-of-fact in my communication style. I could do a better job at that. It probably comes across stronger than I mean it to. 
 

Is that what you are referring to? I don’t want to assume. 

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

I tend to be pretty matter-of-fact in my communication style. I could do a better job at that. It probably comes across stronger than I mean it to. 
 

Is that what you are referring to? I don’t want to assume. 

It really was more about your apparent lack of humility.  You were very vocal and confrontational for years about something where you were completely wrong and we were completely right.  During that time period you never appeared to even consider the possibility that you were wrong.  When you realized you were wrong, I would have expected it to be a shock to your system.  “Hmmm, maybe I shouldn’t be quite so confident about my opinions given my track record.”

But now instead of coming here and saying “maybe I can learn from these people that were totally right when I was totally wrong before” you are acting, once again, like you are definitely right and we are definitely wrong.

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

The points about for-profit medicine and pharmaceuticals are noted and I believe have some validity. Vaccines for measles, smallpox and polio, for example, I don't view that in the same category though. You don't eradicate diseases by accident. The Covid vaccine probably won't eradicate Covid like some of those others, but data shows the vaccine to be highly effective in reducing hospitalizations and deaths.

How do you feel about using data in your decision making process? By that I mean really large numbers, quantitative enough to have statistical estimation applied. Into it? Or "damn statistics and lies"? "I can make the data say anything"? Those are widely held attitudes as well, just curious where you sort of fall on that spectrum.

 

[CrossEyed2]

The points about for-profit medicine and pharmaceuticals are noted and I believe have some validity. Vaccines for measles, smallpox and polio, for example, I don't view that in the same category though. You don't eradicate diseases by accident. The Covid vaccine probably won't eradicate Covid like some of those others, but data shows the vaccine to be highly effective in reducing hospitalizations and deaths.

How do you feel about using data in your decision making process? By that I mean really large numbers, quantitative enough to have statistical estimation applied. Into it? Or "damn statistics and lies"? "I can make the data say anything"? Those are widely held attitudes as well, just curious where you sort of fall on that spectrum.

I think that if you study the history of those diseases, their trajectory, and the timing of the introduction of the vaccines, there are better explanations for their reduction and eventual elimination. Statistics are a piece of any evaluation, but we do all know that statistics CAN be manipulated.

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

I think that if you study the history of those diseases, their trajectory, and the timing of the introduction of the vaccines, there are better explanations for their reduction and eventual elimination. Statistics are a piece of any evaluation, but we do all know that statistics CAN be manipulated.

Sure. I tend to rely pretty heavily on data, but this whole discussion is a good reminder to double-check the blind spots once in a while. 

 

[Juxtatarot]

I think that if you study the history of those diseases, their trajectory, and the timing of the introduction of the vaccines, there are better explanations for their reduction and eventual elimination. Statistics are a piece of any evaluation, but we do all know that statistics CAN be manipulated.

What caused the dramatic decline in US polio cases in the late 50s and early 60s?

 

[jhib]

Germ theory denial in the age of the COVID-19 pandemic

 

[jhib]

The advancements that have been made in the areas of transplants, surgeries, and many other aspects of the medical world are truly impressive and I am grateful for that niche of healthcare.

Now just imagine how it would be if all those surgeons rejected germ theory.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

Now just imagine how it would be if all those surgeons rejected germ theory.

"It would be exactly the same as it is now, because germ theory isn't real."

See, this is an easy game when you're not constrained to things like facts, evidence, and reason.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Germ theory denial in the age of the COVID-19 pandemic

Wait. People don't believe in germs?

 

[rockaction]

It really was more about your apparent lack of humility.  You were very vocal and confrontational for years about something where you were completely wrong and we were completely right.  During that time period you never appeared to even consider the possibility that you were wrong.  When you realized you were wrong, I would have expected it to be a shock to your system.  “Hmmm, maybe I shouldn’t be quite so confident about my opinions given my track record.”

But now instead of coming here and saying “maybe I can learn from these people that were totally right when I was totally wrong before” you are acting, once again, like you are definitely right and we are definitely wrong.

fatguyinalittlecoat,

Ever notice that about political converts, too? People that flip from one side to the other? There's a level of self-assuredness that's still there, even when they'd been "wrong" all along. It's where the phrase "zeal of the convert" comes from, I think.

Perhaps instead of seeing things on a reason/skeptic straight line, it's best to look at humility/arrogance when it comes to assessing certain opinions or beliefs.

I've long seen it in politics.

On a personal note: Even though I personally write with bombast, I'm never assured of either a) human nature and b) how it should manifest politically. I'm just not. That's why my political position is default humility towards institutions and tradition. I'm not sure of my own powers of reason and how they should supersede millennia of knowledge-seekers much like myself. That might be self-congratulatory, but I am never so irritated as by people like CrossEyed2, who march on in life self-assured and so previously and admittedly wrong about everything. On a personal level -- and this is just spitballing here -- perhaps next time we discuss politics, you'll keep that in mind about me. I don't know everything, and I sure as heck know it. Neither do you, and I almost know you're humble about your assertions, too, or at least you try and pass as many Turing tests as you can.

Anyway, it's neither here nor there, it's just something I've really noticed in life that really sticks in my craw and upsets me, frankly. This whole exercise does.

 

[rockaction]

It's why people that who were so assured they were right about their religious impulses bothers me so. If it's not an ethic they're following for themselves, but rather, teachings and literal behavioral proscriptions and restrictions towards others, my dander gets up.

In the immortal philosophic words of David Hume as interpreted by T.Z. Lavine, "How do you know?"

 

[dgreen]

Thanks! Glad you stopped in.

I may have worded that poorly. What I meant was that I found the Bible to not actually be what it is purported to be and what most people believe it to be. I didn't leave because of what other people believe, I left because I discovered the Bible to be nothing but another flawed book of men. 

Yeah, I agree the Bible isn't what the vast majority of American/Western Christians think it is. We have a really hard time understanding much of what's going on and then probably make that even worse by not even asking/researching what's going on in the scriptures.

I've certainly heard of people who leave Christianity after going through a program like a masters of divinity or other deeper study of the Bible but I also know people who have further strengthened their faith through such studies. I doubt I'll ever do anything on the level of an MoD study, but the more I learn the more my faith is strengthened.

Recently I found the BEMA Discipleship podcast and I'm really enjoying it. Some of it might be just confirmation bias, but I think there are definitely some things that have been mentioned that are challenging my beliefs, which I think is a good thing.

 

[stbugs]

What caused the dramatic decline in US polio cases in the late 50s and early 60s?

Statistics. Did you even read what the man said?

 

[stbugs]

It really was more about your apparent lack of humility.  You were very vocal and confrontational for years about something where you were completely wrong and we were completely right.  During that time period you never appeared to even consider the possibility that you were wrong.  When you realized you were wrong, I would have expected it to be a shock to your system.  “Hmmm, maybe I shouldn’t be quite so confident about my opinions given my track record.”

But now instead of coming here and saying “maybe I can learn from these people that were totally right when I was totally wrong before” you are acting, once again, like you are definitely right and we are definitely wrong.

I said the same thing in one of the other threads he pooped on. I’d assume it’s a personality flaw where he has to be led or he believes without question. I don’t think he really researched the Bible as he said. I’ll bet he got sucked into another group or web site that questioned his faith and he dove into that and out of the ministry. Now he’s getting sucked into natural healing and  toxins. Heck, I bet he’s on that quack FB site posted above. He’s basically quoting their ideas word for word.

Basically, he’s the sucker PT Barnum was talking about and he continuously gets sucked into the next group and believes in it without question until he gets sucked into the next one. That’s why he’s always right and everyone else is wrong. It’s ironic that these people call themselves free thinkers when they are just weak minded individuals who can only believe what’s handed to them. Research to them is watching a video of an unqualified quack and taking everything said as gold. Normal people don’t have a faith or belief in Advil. Normal people don’t have to know every ingredient or how it works. Normal people understand that we aren’t all experts on everything but we sure do know that when we drink too much that drinking water and taking two Advil before going to bed makes you right as rain.

 

[CrossEyed2]

Yeah, I agree the Bible isn't what the vast majority of American/Western Christians think it is. We have a really hard time understanding much of what's going on and then probably make that even worse by not even asking/researching what's going on in the scriptures.

I've certainly heard of people who leave Christianity after going through a program like a masters of divinity or other deeper study of the Bible but I also know people who have further strengthened their faith through such studies. I doubt I'll ever do anything on the level of an MoD study, but the more I learn the more my faith is strengthened.

Recently I found the BEMA Discipleship podcast and I'm really enjoying it. Some of it might be just confirmation bias, but I think there are definitely some things that have been mentioned that are challenging my beliefs, which I think is a good thing.

The "straw that broke the camel's back" for me was doing an in-depth study of the OT "prophecies" that the gospel of Matthew claims is proof that Jesus was the awaited "Messiah". I dug into all of those passages and discovered that not a single one of them could be a fulfilled prophecy by an objective observer. Most of them simply weren't prophecies at all.

 

[dgreen]

The "straw that broke the camel's back" for me was doing an in-depth study of the OT "prophecies" that the gospel of Matthew claims is proof that Jesus was the awaited "Messiah". I dug into all of those passages and discovered that not a single one of them could be a fulfilled prophecy by an objective observer. Most of them simply weren't prophecies at all.

I'm actually in Matthew now on that BEMA podcast. They go through verse by verse. While I don't think the host puts it quite like you do (and it hasn't led him to the same conclusions as you in regards to Jesus), I think he's trying to make some points that are along the lines of what you might be saying. I need to continue to listen and think about it before I speak intelligently or confidently about it, though.

 

[stbugs]

"It would be exactly the same as it is now, because germ theory isn't real."

See, this is an easy game when you're not constrained to things like facts, evidence, and reason.

I love how he laughed at my post, but man this conspiracy #### has gone to a new level since COVID reared it’s ugly head. I’m like @rockaction, so tired of it that I’ll call him out. You have to be weak minded to believe that germs don’t exist and #### like that. Unfortunately, in this anecdotal world where you need no proof besides a tweet or FB post, people believe a nobody over life long experts and real scientific discovery.

 

[CrossEyed2]

I love how he laughed at my post, but man this conspiracy #### has gone to a new level since COVID reared it’s ugly head. I’m like @rockaction, so tired of it that I’ll call him out. You have to be weak minded to believe that germs don’t exist and #### like that. Unfortunately, in this anecdotal world where you need no proof besides a tweet or FB post, people believe a nobody over life long experts and real scientific discovery.

Virologists doing actual research have conceded that they cannot distinguish between a virus and an exosome. But since you know everything about virology and I'm just an uninformed idiot, I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you didn't already know. 

 

[CrossEyed2]

I'm actually in Matthew now on that BEMA podcast. They go through verse by verse. While I don't think the host puts it quite like you do (and it hasn't led him to the same conclusions as you in regards to Jesus), I think he's trying to make some points that are along the lines of what you might be saying. I need to continue to listen and think about it before I speak intelligently or confidently about it, though.

The study that needs to be done is on the OT passages that Matthew uses to make his claim. That's where things started falling apart for me.

 

[rockaction]

I love how he laughed at my post, but man this conspiracy #### has gone to a new level since COVID reared it’s ugly head. I’m like @rockaction, so tired of it that I’ll call him out. You have to be weak minded to believe that germs don’t exist and #### like that. Unfortunately, in this anecdotal world where you need no proof besides a tweet or FB post, people believe a nobody over life long experts and real scientific discovery.

I will admit to being sick of it, but I've decided not to comment directly towards the poster unless I'm directly quoted or it is called for. I certainly don't want to get suspended over this.

Like I said before, I have an inkling that the person is posting in bad faith, but I can't go too into it or why. All I know is what the person on the other end provides as discussion or grist for the mill, or what have you. And what I have noticed is that many more end users than normal are promoting conspiracy theories at an alarming rate. This cannot be good for ordered society as we know it. It upsets the natural order that received wisdom provides us.

I've posted in the political thread that we do not know more than tradition does. In order to tear down a fence that obstructs or prevents, perhaps we need to know why it is there in the first place. Only when we answer that is tradition or received knowledge ready to be overthrown or rejected. Not before. This particular poster has overthrown conventional wisdom with limited means, and his conclusions are disastrous for himself, his family, his communication partners.

It's all bad. It's pollution.

 

[Zegras11]

It upsets the natural order that received wisdom provides us.

The thinning of the heard will balance this out over time.

 

[rockaction]

The thinning of the heard will balance this out over time.

What worries me, Getzlaf, is the possibility that our institutions and organizations crumble before that happens. I see what you're saying, but we forget how fragile human institutions are and that our received wisdom that is put into political and organizational practice is subject to that fragility.

Dying of natural causes happens less quickly than dying from people motivated for political and social change. The history of the twentieth century was written as such. Let us pray we avoid it in the twenty-first. I am not so sanguine.

 

[dgreen]

The study that needs to be done is on the OT passages that Matthew uses to make his claim. That's where things started falling apart for me.

Agree. This podcast focuses heavily on the OT and the hosts thoughts on the original intent of the text. 

 

[stbugs]

Virologists doing actual research have conceded that they cannot distinguish between a virus and an exosome. But since you know everything about virology and I'm just an uninformed idiot, I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you didn't already know. 

You talking about something like this Clark?

https://www.pnas.org/content/113/33/9155 

I’m not a virologist so I’m sure I don’t know, but why would you post anything about Virologists. Aren’t they all morons who are completely wrong about there beliefs? The article above seems to distinguish between the two but say they resemble each other. That said, WTF does that have to do with your belief that viruses don’t transmit to other people or that cancer is caused by living a bad lifestyle and that COVID doesn’t exist?

 

[CrossEyed2]

That said, WTF does that have to do with your belief that viruses don’t transmit to other people or that cancer is caused by living a bad lifestyle and that COVID doesn’t exist?

A lot more than you'd be willing to consider. But I don't waste my time having lengthy conversations with people who pretend they know the history and knowledge of someone they never met.

I don’t think he really researched the Bible as he said. I’ll bet he got sucked into another group or web site that questioned his faith and he dove into that and out of the ministry.

I can still respect people who disagree with me. Even those who do so disagreeably. But I can't respect people who act like they know what I have or haven't done.

Go away. 

 

[stbugs]

A lot more than you'd be willing to consider. But I don't waste my time having lengthy conversations with people who pretend they know the history and knowledge of someone they never met.

I can still respect people who disagree with me. Even those who do so disagreeably. But I can't respect people who act like they know what I have or haven't done.

Go away. 

The bolded is about what I expected. You have no answer. People who get sucked into conspiracy theories get suckered by a statement like EVs are similar to viruses. Instead of reading it for what it is, all of a sudden that’s proof for your whacked out theory that viruses are created inside a body as a result of toxins (great generic catch all scary word) and aren’t transmitted from other people/sources.

Also, don’t feel like going away, not a fan of this idiocy that keeps killing people because some people don’t have the willpower to read a FB page and not get suckered into believing it’s real. A few of us just noticed a pattern.

 

[CrossEyed2]

The bolded is about what I expected. You have no answer. People who get sucked into conspiracy theories get suckered by a statement like EVs are similar to viruses. Instead of reading it for what it is, all of a sudden that’s proof for your whacked out theory that viruses are created inside a body as a result of toxins (great generic catch all scary word) and aren’t transmitted from other people/sources.

Also, don’t feel like going away, not a fan of this idiocy that keeps killing people because some people don’t have the willpower to read a FB page and not get suckered into believing it’s real. A few of us just noticed a pattern.

 

[Binky The Doormat]

were you suspended or did you just decide to go away for a long time?

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

When you realized you were wrong, I would have expected it to be a shock to your system.  “Hmmm, maybe I shouldn’t be quite so confident about my opinions given my track record.”

But now instead of coming here and saying “maybe I can learn from these people that were totally right when I was totally wrong before” you are acting, once again, like you are definitely right and we are definitely wrong.

bump for @CrossEyed2

 

[Dickies]

For those who don't think that the modern healthcare system is driven by profits and the pharmaceutical industry, allow me to share a recent experience.

My son is 12. He had a traumatic birth, was in PICU for over a month, had to have a blood transfusion, and I could go on. He came into our care at 11 weeks old as a foster child. 7 months later we adopted him. 

When he was placed with us we found a local pediatrician who has seen him go from a sickly infant to a very healthy 12 year old. The only times he's been to the doctor in the past few years is for his annual well-visit. When he was an infant we were fully bought into the system and he had all of his vaccines on schedule (despite being an underweight premie with significant health issues, but that's a separate discussion). He's had 35 doses of vaccines. 35.

Because of what we've learned along the way we decided that we would prefer that he not receive his last 2 boosters. Can't even recall exactly which ones they are right now. I talked to the school nurse and she let us know that we just need to send her a letter stating our reasons for choosing not to get it. The state of PA allows for exemptions.

But when we informed our pediatrician of almost 12 years of our intention, he informed us that we would no longer be allowed to remain in the practice. We had actually followed him from one practice to another a few years back, so I called the practice we had left. Nope, they wouldn't take us either. Why is that? Money. If they fall under a certain % of "fully vaccinated" patients, it hurts their bottom line.

Fortunately my wife works in healthcare and we were able to find a family practice that was happy to take us. When my wife was asked why we were changing doctors and explained to the new practice what had happened, the woman was shocked. She couldn't believe that a doctor would throw a patient out for simply choosing not to get 2 boosters.

But that's pediatric medicine in America in 2021.

Why do you consider germ theory and the medical/pharmaceutical industries in this country being profit-driven to be mutually exclusive?

Also, I don’t think vaccines are huge money makers for anyone. Your doctor probably wants to limit his liability from people rejecting his advice. 

 

[gianmarco]

I'm kind of confused. 

Virologists study viruses. Their work and career is specifically on the study of viruses. But yet they are claiming they don't exist?

Or, just a few are claiming they don't exist? And those virologists are more trustworthy than the majority of them that have literally dedicated their lives and careers to studying them?

Or we don't believe any virologists? We believe others that claim to know more than virologists?