CrossEyed2
Footballguy
So how many of my old friends and enemies are still around? Y’all might be shocked at who I am today. Give me a shout and we can catch up. Great to be back!
Never been better!Wow, hey GB! It's been awhile. Hope all is well.
I'm doing well, thanks. Totally understand the retirement from politics. Too exhausting. When you say retired from religion, you mean in terms of discussing it or in terms of it no longer being a part of your life?Never been better!
I’ve “retired” from religion and politics. I know, shocking, right?!?
How are you doing?
I’m out of organized religion completely. Haven’t stepped foot in a church in about 5 years. Long story short, once I got out of ministry I felt free to ask questions that I couldn’t ask before. And the more answers I found, the more the Bible and organized religion crumbled for me. It was more of no longer being able to believe than no longer wanting to believe.I'm doing well, thanks. Totally understand the retirement from politics. Too exhausting. When you say retired from religion, you mean in terms of discussing it or in terms of it no longer being a part of your life?
Interesting. I guess that means LarryBoy isn’t around any more either.I can't even remember the last time religion was discussed in the slightest here. Maybe it happens in the psf. Wouldn't really know.
Religion and werewolf went away about the same time. Coincidence?
Okay.Don’t even get me started on this COVID ridiculousness.
I certainly know how you feel and I'm familiar with your journey and all the battles with anger, etc., that you went through. Religion is such a terrible word in that it tends to put what is believed (or what's supposed to be believed) about God in a box created by men who claimed to be sent from God. Relationship seems to be a softer word that I see many embrace.I’m out of organized religion completely. Haven’t stepped foot in a church in about 5 years. Long story short, once I got out of ministry I felt free to ask questions that I couldn’t ask before. And the more answers I found, the more the Bible and organized religion crumbled for me. It was more of no longer being able to believe than no longer wanting to believe.
It’s been a very freeing experience. Although I did have to battle through a lot of anger the first couple of years.
Now I’m learning a lot more about meditation and scientific explanations of life. Just not mainstream “science”, which is just as corrupt as organized religion. Don’t even get me started on this COVID ridiculousness.
Ah yes, but now it’s the Cult of COVID members who are basing their beliefs on blind faith, not me.Okay.
But five years ago you would have said Don't even get me started on this nonbelieving ridiculousness.
Apparently you haven’t retired from politics and religion.I’m out of organized religion completely. Haven’t stepped foot in a church in about 5 years. Long story short, once I got out of ministry I felt free to ask questions that I couldn’t ask before. And the more answers I found, the more the Bible and organized religion crumbled for me. It was more of no longer being able to believe than no longer wanting to believe.
It’s been a very freeing experience. Although I did have to battle through a lot of anger the first couple of years.
Now I’m learning a lot more about meditation and scientific explanations of life. Just not mainstream “science”, which is just as corrupt as organized religion. Don’t even get me started on this COVID ridiculousness.
Always happy to share my experience. One of the biggest things that’s changed about me is that I no longer feel the need to change anyone else’s thinking. “You do you, and I’ll do me” is kind of how I think now. I still love to discuss things and challenge the status quo, but whatever someone wants to believe is up to them.I certainly know how you feel and I'm familiar with your journey and all the battles with anger, etc., that you went through. Religion is such a terrible word in that it tends to put what is believed (or what's supposed to be believed) about God in a box created by men who claimed to be sent from God. Relationship seems to be a softer word that I see many embrace.
Sometime I'd like to hear more and maybe talk with you about the journey but today is not the time. Welcome back, it's good to see you.
How so? I don’t view any of the COVID stuff from a political angle. I think both sides suck and have gotten this entire mess wrong from the beginning, from Trump to Biden and everyone in between.Apparently you haven’t retired from politics and religion.
Okay.Ah yes, but now it’s the Cult of COVID members who are basing their beliefs on blind faith, not me.Okay.
But five years ago you would have said Don't even get me started on this nonbelieving ridiculousness.
My intention isn’t to mock anyone. I’m trying to challenge people to think for themselves. Blindly accepting the word of “trusted sources” is what tangled me up in religious nonsense for most of my life. Once you wake up to how many lies are told you start to see that same pattern in areas outside of religion. I’m not even sure why I originally got interested in virology and germ theory, but I did. And once I started reading it struck me that it used the same deception and “just trust the experts” approach as religion.Okay.
But five years ago you were mocking the nonreligious with similar language. I'm just sayin'.
I've actually taken the time to DO the science. And far, far more time than you've taken to read about it.If people just took the time to actually read how the “science” is done, I think most would realize how unscientific germ theory truly is.
This is from a reply I made on another post. Maybe it will help you understand my thoughts…maybe not.I've actually taken the time to DO the science. And far, far more time than you've taken to read about it.
So, I'm not taking someone else's word. I've done it, seen it firsthand, learned about it extensively, and gotten degrees on it. The same as others I work with.
So, with all due respect, you are simply wrong and I'm sorry you've been led astray yet again.
Welcome back. Have you relinquished the Pirates as your team yet?
I understand how you've felt betrayed. You're not the first to come to that realization with religion.This is from a reply I made on another post. Maybe it will help you understand my thoughts…maybe not.
Allow me to compare it to my experience with the Bible/religion. My whole life I was taught that the most compelling reason that “Jesus” was the “Messiah” was because he fulfilled so many prophecies from the Old Testament. All of the pastors and Bible scholars said so. They had done their research, they were men of God, they dedicated their lives to studying the Bible, who was I to question that? So I went to seminary and learned how to repeat and teach the doctrines. You don’t question it, you learn it, you reaffirm it, you get indoctrinated even deeper with it, you cement your confirmation bias…and then you go and teach others…and they accept it because you’ve now become another “expert”, a “man of God” who shouldn’t be questioned by the lay people who don’t have the education.
But then when you discover that it’s nonsense, you’re kicked out of the club…you’re a heretic, a backslidden heathen that others are warned not to believe. You try to explain what you’ve learned to others, but those in charge make sure that others know you’re no longer a trusted source, you’ve fallen away from the truth, you’re mocked and marginalized.
This is EXACTLY what happens in science today. Those who question the accepted narrative are mocked and marginalized and called “quacks” and “kooks”.
And you know why? Because too many people’s income is threatened if the truth gets out. The system has to stay propped up in order for those who rely on the system to keep benefitting from the system. Most people in the system don’t even realize the lies they’ve accepted and propagate, so don’t hear me saying that “everyone is in on it”. I wasn’t in on it when I was pastoring, but I was under the control of my own confirmation biases and cognitive dissonance.
There is no broad category of “science” that can blanket all things that lay claim to science. That’s part of the problem, in my opinion. I don’t reject everything that claims scientific backing, but I also don’t blindly accept it. And science used to be about constant challenge of currently accepted models in order to continually advance. Today it’s somehow become anathema to “question the science”. But questioning IS SCIENCE.I understand how you've felt betrayed. You're not the first to come to that realization with religion.
Science is a constant that has advanced civilization. It is inherently non biased.
The car you drive, the computer you are typing these replies on, the internet you are using to read and research, and countless other things are thanks to science.
If you want to disavow science, then you should stop using all these things considering all the benefits from it that you use on a daily basis.
The same can't be said about religion and never could be. You are equating two things that were never equitable.
I find these type of statements are often said by people significantly uneducated on a topic thinking they know more than the people who studied and worked in the field their entire life.If people just took the time to actually read how the “science” is done, I think most would realize how unscientific germ theory truly is.
Kinda crazy that you assume that’s how I arrived at my position. But hey, you do you.I find these type of statements are often said by people significantly uneducated on a topic thinking they know more than the people who studied and worked in the field their entire life.
I can't imagine what it must be like to read a snippet on a questionable web site and then think you know more than people who have advanced degrees and decades in the field on a topic.
Can you share with us what degrees you have in the field and how many years you have worked in germ/virus/vaccine related jobs?Kinda crazy that you assume that’s how I arrived at my position. But hey, you do you.
One thing I learned from being kicked out of the club in religion is that you can often learn the most from those who were kicked out of the club in their respective fields. Those are the people who have seen “behind the curtain” and had enough character and integrity to question the narrative.Can you share with us what degrees you have in the field and how many years you have worked in germ/virus/vaccine related jobs?
Again, this is a very common theme from people who are uneducated on a topic.The idea that you can only question something if you have a degree in that field is a fallacy, an excuse of the lazy, and a control mechanism of the people who benefit from the existing system. .
Okay.My intention isn’t to mock anyone. I’m trying to challenge people to think for themselves. Blindly accepting the word of “trusted sources” is what tangled me up in religious nonsense for most of my life. Once you wake up to how many lies are told you start to see that same pattern in areas outside of religion. I’m not even sure why I originally got interested in virology and germ theory, but I did. And once I started reading it struck me that it used the same deception and “just trust the experts” approach as religion.
If people just took the time to actually read how the “science” is done, I think most would realize how unscientific germ theory truly is.
I’ve “retired” from religion and politics.
Don’t even get me started on this COVID ridiculousness.
This is a very important point. Many/most sciences are not exact sciences. We learn and improve on them as time goes on. This can take years or decades or even centuries. Some sciences will never be perfected, but will slowly improve over long periods of time.And have you also taken the time to seriously consider the possibility that something can be imperfect without being false?
Yes. Yes. And yes.Okay.
Have you taken the time to seriously consider the possibility that your current experiences with learning about "virology and germ theory" are similar to your past experiences with learning about religion?
And have you also taken the time to seriously consider the possibility that your negative experience with religion is clouding your approach to other subjects?
And have you also taken the time to seriously consider the possibility that something can be imperfect without being false?
Nope, you’ll never see me with a political or religious angle to any of that. I don’t side with either political party on this topic. I think both parties suck.Denial of solid information on COVID has a basis in politics and religion. So, no, you're not retired from it and you're already in the COVID thread talking about it.
You know we have microscopes, right?Yes. Yes. And yes.
Actually, it’s my experience in having blindly accepted the ideas that I used to accept that have caused me to question and research other things that I also used to blindly accept. So it has not clouded my view, it has clarified it. I go into everything with eyes wide open at this point. My goal isn’t ever to prove or disprove anything that I already believe, but rather to understand it.
And of course things can be imperfect without being false. A lot of science falls into that category because human beings are imperfect. But in the case of virology and germ theory, I’m 99% convinced it is false. There are much better explanations for disease, such as toxicity, stress, malnutrition, resonance, etc.
So your understanding is that we can put something under a microscope, identify it as a virus, and know that it’s causing disease?You know we have microscopes, right?
Seriously, this is "new and improved"?
What was the original then?
You’re right that science should constantly be questioned, but the bar to scrap something like germ theory is incredibly high, due to decades of evidence in its favor. Without referring me to a video claiming Hoax!, etc., can you summarize where germ theory fails?There is no broad category of “science” that can blanket all things that lay claim to science. That’s part of the problem, in my opinion. I don’t reject everything that claims scientific backing, but I also don’t blindly accept it. And science used to be about constant challenge of currently accepted models in order to continually advance. Today it’s somehow become anathema to “question the science”. But questioning IS SCIENCE.
How many things throughout history were accepted as “the science” that we now realize was wrong? I happen to think germ theory will eventually end up on that same scrap heap. But that won’t happen until people are willing to entertain the idea that it could possibly be wrong. That’s science. Holding onto something as unassailable truth is religion.
It’s this, but then with most conspiratorial trains of thought you also have to believe that the overwhelming number of experts who DID go through these rigorous educational tracks are also liars, cheaters, and all in on the same scams.I find these type of statements are often said by people significantly uneducated on a topic thinking they know more than the people who studied and worked in the field their entire life.
I can't imagine what it must be like to read a snippet on a questionable web site and then think you know more than people who have advanced degrees and decades in the field on a topic.
It is interesting you mentioned conspiracy theories.It’s this, but then with most conspiratorial trains of thought you also have to believe that the overwhelming number of experts who DID go through these rigorous educational tracks are also liars, cheaters, and all in on the same scams.
IIRC, you actually professed to have a similar mindset during your previous stint on this board, except that instead of reading about "virology and germ theory", you boasted of the knowledge that you gained from reading the Bible.Actually, it’s my experience in having blindly accepted the ideas that I used to accept that have caused me to question and research other things that I also used to blindly accept. So it has not clouded my view, it has clarified it. I go into everything with eyes wide open at this point.
I can usually tell right away when someone has been sucked into the algorithm.It is interesting you mentioned conspiracy theories.
He recommended a book to read in one of his posts and when I looked it up, I saw that the book had been pretty disavowed in the scientific community for being full of conspiracy theories.
Great questions.You’re right that science should constantly be questioned, but the bar to scrap something like germ theory is incredibly high, due to decades of evidence in its favor. Without referring me to a video claiming Hoax!, etc., can you summarize where germ theory fails?
Which of Koch’s postulates are invalid?
What is really causing infectious disease?
If not causative, what are all the falsely accused microbes hanging out in various diseases actually doing?
If you were sick with an infection, would you refuse antimicrobials therapy?
What would it take to convince you germ theory is actually correct?
See my post. You were in before me.Seriously, this is "new and improved"?
What was the original then?