rockaction
Footballguy
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I’m Back! New and Improved! (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter CrossEyed2
- Start date
CrossEyed2
Footballguy
fatness
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
Yes. It did. It was a thread on vaccine skeptics, even, not just COVID deniers, so it was a bit more ambitious, but still deserving of being here.
I'm a little taken aback by the non-coexistence of the thread I started with this one. I'm really beginning to wonder about the moderation here. I asked Maurile in the political subforum about it. I'm interested in the answer.
That I would ever have the allies in the political and science spectrum I find myself realigned with is stunning to me and indicative of a major problem we have as a country.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
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Terminalxylem
Footballguy
I was thinking the exact same thing. I guess the mods see no harm in conspiratorial nonsense, even though the science denial promoted in this thread has actually cost people their lives.
jhib
Footballguy
Exactly. But hey, let's be fair to Crosseyed. He mocked the religious, too - anyone who followed other religions or other flavors of Christianity from his own.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Gross.
Given that background, it’s amazing this site is as civil and reasonable as it is.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
I read the first post and my first thought was "I bet he is a COVID is a hoax guy though" and low and behold I don't even get through the first few posts . . . .
Jayrod
Footballguy
Welcome back @CrossEyed2!
Sorry to hear you've thrown the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak, on Christianity.
Hope you can give it another honest look at some point but I understand you may need a long while to sort out your past and all of the difficulties it has brought on your life. Just asking you not to completely close the door on who Jesus is and what he did.
Sorry to hear you've thrown the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak, on Christianity.
Hope you can give it another honest look at some point but I understand you may need a long while to sort out your past and all of the difficulties it has brought on your life. Just asking you not to completely close the door on who Jesus is and what he did.
CrossEyed2
Footballguy
Hey, Jayrod!
I appreciate that, I really do. But I really didn't turn away from Christianity because of any difficulties. I wasn't looking to get out, I was looking to go deeper. But the deeper I dug, the shakier I found the foundations to be.
Jesus has some GREAT teachings. His words about things being done according to the amount of faith one has I've found to be dead on accurate. But here's the little secret that religions won't tell you...it's not the object of one's faith that does the healing, it's the faith in one's own mind that it will happen that brings about the result. That's why people of all different faith backgrounds can and do experience "miracles" and healings. If you truly believe that something will heal or help you, it will. But it's not that thing that heals you, it's your belief that it will happen that heals you. That's exactly why the "placebo effect" exists. The human mind is far more amazing and capable than most realize. I've read numerous books by people like Joseph Murphy, Joe Dispenza, Michael Singer, and others. There's real science behind it. Dispenza in particular goes to great lengths to show scientifically that these concepts are true. I'm still learning and applying these ideas, but they're pretty fascinating. I think most people with a religious background and an open mind would find them pretty interesting. I'm currently reading The Power of Your Subconscious Mind by Joseph Murphy. Really interesting.
But as far as Jesus being the "Son of God" or some kind of "Messiah"...sorry, I just don't buy it. The supposed prophecies that he was said to have fulfilled from the OT completely fell apart for me when I did an in-depth study of those OT passages. Most of them aren't even prophecies, and the ones that could be considered borderline prophecies have nothing to do with a future "Messiah". That was an extremely eye-opening study for me. I had some doubts kicking around in my mind going into that study, but when I had finished my entire view of "scripture" had changed. I simply could no longer believe that it was the "word of God".
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Glad to have you back, CE.CrossEyed2 said:
CrossEyed2
Footballguy
Binky The Doormat
Footballguy
this whole thread is ...
ew.
ew.
CrossEyed2
Footballguy
steelerfan1
Footballguy
Hi CECrossEyed2 said:
CrossEyed2
Footballguy
matuski
Footballguy
You and I fought tooth and nail over this exact thing.... like 10-15 years ago?
Welcome back old nemesis.
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rockaction
Footballguy
No. Cross-reference "pollution" and "third-party effects" and you'll get a better idea of where he's coming from.
CrossEyed2
Footballguy
Turns out you were right. My bad.You and I fought tooth and nail over this exact thing.... like 10-15 years ago?
Welcome back old nemesis.
northern exposure
Footballguy
I have a feeling a lot of these apologies will be made down the road to those CE has debated with about COVID.Turns out you were right. My bad.
jhib
Footballguy
With a little grounding/earthing and structured water pseudoscientific nonsense slipped in there as well.
CrossEyed2
Footballguy
Well, I haven’t been to a doctor in almost 10 years and only then because the state required me to get physicals while we were fostering our kids. I’m 56, I weigh the same as I did 30 years ago, have a lower bp than I did then (118/68 currently), and I pretty much never get sick.
But hey, you keep injecting and ingesting pharmaceuticals and I’ll keep living my crazy, unscientific lifestyle. As long as your lifestyle is working for you, I’ll keep letting mine work for me.
jhib
Footballguy
CrossEyed2 said:Well, I haven’t been to a doctor in almost 10 years and only then because the state required me to get physicals while we were fostering our kids. I’m 56, I weigh the same as I did 30 years ago, have a lower bp than I did then (118/68 currently), and I pretty much never get sick.
But hey, you keep injecting and ingesting pharmaceuticals and I’ll keep living my crazy, unscientific lifestyle. As long as your lifestyle is working for you, I’ll keep letting mine work for me.
Oh, I'm cool with you living your life the way you want and believing pseudoscientific bunk is the reason for your good health, and I don't know whether or not you bring it up in an effort to convince others, but I'm good with pointing out that it's bunk just in case.
CrossEyed2
Footballguy
If it works, I don't really give a damn what you or anybody else thinks about it. The placebo effect is well documented. Lots of other things that "modern science" wants to dismiss or explain away work far better than our current western model of medicine/healthcare. We have more chronic disease than ever. Much of the population can't even make it through their daily lives without some type of pharmaceutical product. But people are so enamored by the white coats that they don't dare question the "experts".Oh, I'm cool with you living your life the way you want and believing pseudoscientific bunk is the reason for your good health, and I don't know whether or not you bring it up in an effort to convince others, but I'm good with pointing out that it's bunk just in case.
A lot of folks around here used to ridicule me for my blind faith. Most of those same folks can't even see that they are victims of the same blind faith...it's just entrusted to a different system.
Keep on keeping on.
SWC
Bromigo
yeah its not that at all take that to the bank bromigoIf it works, I don't really give a damn what you or anybody else thinks about it. The placebo effect is well documented. Lots of other things that "modern science" wants to dismiss or explain away work far better than our current western model of medicine/healthcare. We have more chronic disease than ever. Much of the population can't even make it through their daily lives without some type of pharmaceutical product. But people are so enamored by the white coats that they don't dare question the "experts".
A lot of folks around here used to ridicule me for my blind faith. Most of those same folks can't even see that they are victims of the same blind faith...it's just entrusted to a different system.
Keep on keeping on.
jhib
Footballguy
If it works, I don't really give a damn what you or anybody else thinks about it. The placebo effect is well documented. Lots of other things that "modern science" wants to dismiss or explain away work far better than our current western model of medicine/healthcare. We have more chronic disease than ever. Much of the population can't even make it through their daily lives without some type of pharmaceutical product. But people are so enamored by the white coats that they don't dare question the "experts".
A lot of folks around here used to ridicule me for my blind faith. Most of those same folks can't even see that they are victims of the same blind faith...it's just entrusted to a different system.
Keep on keeping on.
First of all, the placebo effect probably isn't what you think it is. Placebo treatments are often sold as magical mind-over-matter healing effects, but they are mostly just illusions and non-specific effects
Second, "modern science" isn't based on blind faith. The "experts" are questioned all the time - that's what peer review is all about. Pseudoscience and the type of alternative medicine you've been touting, meanwhile, is based on blind faith and magical thinking. In a way, your blind faith in your version of Christianity was preferable to me, because IMHO (from what I remember) it was outside of/separate from science, as opposed to your "new and improved" anti-science beliefs.
You wont get an answer other than the canned response. Some of the mods have their own agenda they push and the boss is blind to it.
CrossEyed2
Footballguy
Right, nobody is as smart as you and I couldn’t possibly understand at your level or have any basis for my approach because it doesn’t match up with yours. Give me a break.
You don’t understand modern science as much as you think you do. It’s become like most things, driven by the opportunity for fame and wealth. The pharma industry is the number one lobbyist and the number one advertiser, so they have both the politicians and the media in their pockets. Government figureheads pave the way for the pharmaceutical companies to make billions, then get rewarded when they step down with multi-million dollar positions with those same pharmaceutical companies. The people who call out the system are marginalized and defunded as a message to everyone else…Step out of line and you’ll suffer the same fate. The whole system has become “tobacco science”. Meanwhile people just keep getting more and more unhealthy and more and more reliant on the pharmaceutical treatments for their ailments, most of which are caused or exacerbated by the toxins in the other pharmaceutical and petrochemical products we’re all convinced are healthy.
You can write this all off as “conspiracy theory” but it’s as plain as day to anyone willing to look at it.
CrossEyed2
Footballguy
Not sure I’m completely following, but of course I’ve adjusted my lifestyle as I continued to learn what worked best and what wasn’t working. But I’m honestly not sure I understand your comment.
Capella
Footballguy
many people here ridiculed me for my blind faith of something I no longer have any faith in is once again, not the argument you seem to think it is.If it works, I don't really give a damn what you or anybody else thinks about it. The placebo effect is well documented. Lots of other things that "modern science" wants to dismiss or explain away work far better than our current western model of medicine/healthcare. We have more chronic disease than ever. Much of the population can't even make it through their daily lives without some type of pharmaceutical product. But people are so enamored by the white coats that they don't dare question the "experts".
A lot of folks around here used to ridicule me for my blind faith. Most of those same folks can't even see that they are victims of the same blind faith...it's just entrusted to a different system.
Keep on keeping on.
CrossEyed2
Footballguy
You seem to think I’m making an argument that I’m not making. I was simply comparing one blind faith with another.
You're getting a lot of blowback on the other stuff. But you nailed this part exactly.
CrossEyed2
Footballguy
By the way, this thread is the perfect example of why most people aren’t willing to go against the consensus opinion. This is exactly what happens to scientists who have a theory that would threaten the established narrative and potentially cost people grant money and funding. You get ridiculed and marginalized. So thanks for helping make one of my points.
Binky The Doormat
Footballguy
wow ...way to go out on ...why are you back
just to aggravate?
btw ...your mom says hello
jhib
Footballguy
Re: your first paragraph, that's not what I said, nor what I meant to imply, so I'm sorry if I came across that way. If it was in response to my statement and link that the placebo effect probably isn't what you think it is, that was a guess based on your earlier comments about it and the fact that it's a confusing subject matter. I had some of my own misconceptions cleared up by that article.
Re: the rest. If you're looking for me to argue that the pharmaceutical industry as a whole - especially the business side - is perfect, you're not going to get that from me. And the average American has poor lifestyle (diet and exercise) related to health. But a healthy diet and exercise and maintaining a healthy weight is a part of the recommendations of modern medicine. Why? Because they are actually scientifically backed. And yeah, maybe some pharmaceuticals are too easy to use as a crutch when a person fails at the lifestyle changes, but at least they work.
Meanwhile, people are getting rich off of pseudoscientific stuff that doesn't work.
jhib
Footballguy
Baloney. It's what happens to scientists who cling to hypotheses that aren't supported by basic science.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Do you eat “healthy” (as typically defined) and exercise?CrossEyed2 said:Well, I haven’t been to a doctor in almost 10 years and only then because the state required me to get physicals while we were fostering our kids. I’m 56, I weigh the same as I did 30 years ago, have a lower bp than I did then (118/68 currently), and I pretty much never get sick.
But hey, you keep injecting and ingesting pharmaceuticals and I’ll keep living my crazy, unscientific lifestyle. As long as your lifestyle is working for you, I’ll keep letting mine work for me.
CrossEyed2
Footballguy
It depends on who you ask. According to the vegans I eat terribly unhealthy. But compared to the typical American diet, I’d say I eat fairly healthy. We eat organic chicken and eggs (local when we can), local grass fed beef, organic greens, vegetables and fruit when available. But I think life is to be lived, so I still eat pizza, the occasional hot dog, brats (always with organic kraut), pasta, desserts, etc. And bacon or sausage pretty much every day with my eggs for breakfast.
Exercise can be hit or miss. I tend to walk quite a bit around the neighborhood with my dog. When I’m in the routine I do another set of 4-5 minute exercises a few times per day. Did pretty good with that all summer but have been slacking lately.
Why do you ask?
CrossEyed2
Footballguy
For the most part all they do is mask symptoms and ultimately lead to increased toxicity and other future problems. And continued reliance on a terribly unhealthy approach to health.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I'd say that "modern science" suggests that good diet and exercise is preferred for overall good health than the standard American diet plus pharmaceuticals. I assumed from what your wrote that you were pretty clean which you appear to be. Nice job!
shadrap
Footballguy
CrossEyed2
Footballguy
Thanks!
The two things I credit mostly for dropping my bp to 118/68 (I've had borderline hbp since I was in my 30s) are things I just worked into my lifestyle this year...intermittent fasting and meditation. My weight has fluctuated throughout my life but even when my weight has been lower my bp has never been that low. Ever. When my wife took it the first time I didn't believe it and I made her take it again. Then again the next day...and the day after that.
I think that modern science, or more accurately the healthcare system, pays lip service to good diet and exercise. But the system sure seems more geared toward getting people on pharmaceutical products. Got a problem? Here's a pill. That pill has a side effect? Here's a pill for that. How many research dollars are going into rigorously testing the ideas of terrain theory? Almost none because if terrain theory would be proven correct, people would be in control of their own health and wouldn't need the billions (trillions?) of dollars worth of medications and treatments. There's a LOT more money in blaming invisible microbes than there is in telling people to get the toxins out of their lives and improve their nutrition levels.
As I've mentioned, my wife has worked in healthcare for 30+ years. So we've seen a lot of the workings "behind the curtain". Just like religion, the more we've seen, the less we've bought the story.
I'm not here to talk people into my understandings on any of this. I like to discuss and share what I've learned. Primarily because I appreciated others who were "on the fringe" when I was trying to figure stuff out and weren't afraid to share their stories. I learned a lot from other people's journeys. I completely expect the mockers to mock. At this stage of my life it doesn't even faze me. If folks want to have a respectful discussion, that's awesome! Even if we don't agree. If folks want to act like an ###, I just ignore them. Life's too short.
Ignoratio Elenchi
Footballguy
> Guy spends a lifetime using a nonsensical thought process to conclude that the universe is ruled by the Christian god.
> Somehow finally realizes he was wrong.
> Uses the same exact thought processes to conclude a bunch of nonsense about germ theory and other well-established science.
> Confused why everyone is responding to him in the same exact ways they did ten years ago.
> Somehow finally realizes he was wrong.
> Uses the same exact thought processes to conclude a bunch of nonsense about germ theory and other well-established science.
> Confused why everyone is responding to him in the same exact ways they did ten years ago.
CrossEyed2
Footballguy
You didn't even read my last post. I'm not confused by that at all...nor am I fazed by it.
Ignoratio Elenchi
Footballguy
You didn't even read my last post. I'm not confused by that at all...nor am I fazed by it.
I read it. You obviously are confused since you're asking people to have "respectful discussion" of your pseudosciency beliefs that were discredited a century ago.
Here's a thought to push out of your mind next time you meditate: You're not actually new and improved. You're literally the same person you've always been. You just moved on from one silly belief system to another one.
Some people seem to just be wired to believe in nonsense. You're one of those people. It's just who you are.
CrossEyed2
Footballguy
And some people are just wired to accept things they're told without honestly considering alternatives. That's not me.I read it. You obviously are confused since you're asking people to have "respectful discussion" of your pseudosciency beliefs that were discredited a century ago.
Here's a thought to push out of your mind next time you meditate: You're not actually new and improved. You're literally the same person you've always been. You just moved on from one silly belief system to another one.
Some people seem to just be wired to believe in nonsense. You're one of those people. It's just who you are.
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