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Indefinite Tampa Bay Bucs thread: Somehow not on the list of teams to never have won a Super Bowl (1 Viewer)

Bucnation said Collins is basically done. Bleacher Report had a really positive article on him arguing he was a better bargain than Brandon Albert.

However, he is expected to command a decent salary. I would assume they would have to cut Penn? Funny, he put out a tweet welcoming new FA yesterday.

They also note that we haven't been linked to any free guards. Maybe they are optimistic about Nicks? Collins did play guard before, so maybe they are leaving the door open to draft a 1st round OT?

They also resigned Jamon Meredith so maybe they are more comfortable with the line than perceived.

I'm comfortable with the D now, but a true ILB is probably still in the plans. With the worst offense in the league I think we need to use our top 2-3 picks on offense.

I'm leaning WR or OT as the Bucs 1st pick especially if they get McCown.

 
Grahamburn said:
Verner and Johnson's collective contracts are less per year than Revis'. Yeah, I get it, but if they're spending to the cap why not keep Revis and basically have a defense that will approach "best in the NFL" status?

Call it the "Revis 2" or something. Have him cover the other team's #1 and then let the other 10 guys play zone. Why do these coaches have to be so damn stubborn? You have a great player. Figure out how to use him.

Yes, I'm in denial. :kicksrock:
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We're gonna love Verner. He is a quality Corner in his prime. Bucs still have a strong secondary, the key is pass rush. Look for one of these big name cut guys to land in Tampa and gel the cause. Bucs are setting themselves up well IMO for not just 2014 but 2015/2016 and beyond. I wasn't happy about Revis either but they are replacing with solid players that will round out into a great team under Lovie.

I'm excited about the draft now.

 
Quez said:
Bucnation said Collins is basically done. Bleacher Report had a really positive article on him arguing he was a better bargain than Brandon Albert.

However, he is expected to command a decent salary. I would assume they would have to cut Penn? Funny, he put out a tweet welcoming new FA yesterday.

They also note that we haven't been linked to any free guards. Maybe they are optimistic about Nicks? Collins did play guard before, so maybe they are leaving the door open to draft a 1st round OT?

They also resigned Jamon Meredith so maybe they are more comfortable with the line than perceived.

I'm comfortable with the D now, but a true ILB is probably still in the plans. With the worst offense in the league I think we need to use our top 2-3 picks on offense.

I'm leaning WR or OT as the Bucs 1st pick especially if they get McCown.
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100% agree there. Collins might not have the same track record but compared to Albert, I like what the Bucs did there.

McCown needs to find his way to TB. Bucs are going to be able to draft BPA the way this off season is going.

 
I don't think Collins is a done deal yet, but hopefully we hear about it today. I think the Bucs have a presser today announcing the new guys.

 
Premier said:
He's probably better than Glennon.
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They wouldn't have signed him if they didn't think he could beat out Glennon. And maybe a Manziel falls to your pick at 7. Any way you look at it Glennon looks he slid from entrenched starter to fighting for a roster spot. Lovie already denied calling Glennon the starter. Look for McCown to light a fire under Glennon and if Glennon or a rookie beats McCown out, so be it. McCown worst case is a decent backup. Still think he got overpaid a tad, but then again it's not my money,so..

 
Raiderfan32904 said:
Grahamburn said:
Josh McCown's career completion percentage: 59.4%

Mike Glennon's career completion percentage: 59.4%
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If you want to be fair, judge just last year's numbers. 66.5%, 13 TD, 1 INT, 100+ rating for McCown. 59.4%, 19 TD, 9 INT 86 rating for Glennon.
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That was fair. McCown has had 11 years to compile that raunchy completion percentage.

It wouldn't be the first time a QB parlayed a hot stretch into a nice free agent contract. Are we to believe McCown magically turned into a stud quarterback at the age of 34?

Can we assume Glennon might improve a little after putting up those numbers as a rookie in just about the most horrible football environment imaginable?

 
Grahamburn said:
Raiderfan32904 said:
Grahamburn said:
Josh McCown's career completion percentage: 59.4%

Mike Glennon's career completion percentage: 59.4%
Click to expand...
If you want to be fair, judge just last year's numbers. 66.5%, 13 TD, 1 INT, 100+ rating for McCown. 59.4%, 19 TD, 9 INT 86 rating for Glennon.
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That was fair. McCown has had 11 years to compile that raunchy completion percentage.

It wouldn't be the first time a QB parlayed a hot stretch into a nice free agent contract. Are we to believe McCown magically turned into a stud quarterback at the age of 34?

Can we assume Glennon might improve a little after putting up those numbers as a rookie in just about the most horrible football environment imaginable?
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It's not unprecedented. McCown was perhaps the hottest free agent commodity this offseason and it showed with Tampa taking him first QB off the board. Remember Rich Gannon? He also had a renaissance at a developed stage of his career and went on to be a league MVP. And Glennon makes much less and has no ties to Lovie Smith. I think it's an uphill battle for Glennon to even keep his starting job.

 
I definitely think it's an uphill battle for Glennon now. I just want an open competition. The Bucs needed another QB anyway, but I hope McCown isn't named the starter immediately. Give the kid a fair shake.

 
Some journeyman landed in Tampa about 12 years ago and did a fine job managing things en route to a Super Bowl, the beloved Brad Johnson. I love the addition of McCown, he can teach Glennon a lot of things and also the Bucs can look in the draft to try and find a long term replacement or at least groom another young arm as the QB3 for 2014.

Nothing but upside singing McCown.

 
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Either QB should be ok with VJax, a healthy Mike Williams, Tim Wright, and a solid stable of RBs. The O-line will get better. They just need a slot WR now.

 
I actually immediately starting thinking about Brad Johnson when McCown was rumored to be in the mix for the Bucs. Johnson had 42 starts under his belt when he came to the Bucs. McCown has 38. Granted he's been in the league 4 years longer than Johnson had been at the time of their signing.

If they can put the defense in a similar position to the way it was under Dungy/Gruden, and it seems like they're on the right track, then this team could threaten the playoffs.

Whoever the QB is they will have some weapons in place and the 7th pick for Watkins, Evans, or one of the tackles.

 
Limp Ditka said:
Raiderfan32904 said:
Grahamburn said:
Josh McCown's career completion percentage: 59.4%

Mike Glennon's career completion percentage: 59.4%
Click to expand...
If you want to be fair, judge just last year's numbers. 66.5%, 13 TD, 1 INT, 100+ rating for McCown. 59.4%, 19 TD, 9 INT 86 rating for Glennon.
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:lmao:

Go look at the pass D rankings of the teams McCown compiled those numbers against
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:shrug: wins are wins. I don't think anybody believes we got Peyton Manning today or anything, but he's capable. I think they can win games with him as their QB.

Chances are they draft somebody in the first two rounds as well.

 
I love the Michael Johnson signing. Combined with replacing Revis with a probowl CB, have to believe the defense will be a good unit this year. Offense looking like a real work in progress though. Could end up putting the D in a lot of tough positions. At this rate, could be another sub-.500 season. However, here's hoping...and the draft should be interesting.

 
Ugggg... Why why why did they use that horrific texas instrument font? A different font and those new unis are at least mediocre.

 
bucsbaby said:
I love the Michael Johnson signing. Combined with replacing Revis with a probowl CB, have to believe the defense will be a good unit this year. Offense looking like a real work in progress though. Could end up putting the D in a lot of tough positions. At this rate, could be another sub-.500 season. However, here's hoping...and the draft should be interesting.
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Buc Ball.

 
I guess I'll be the skeptic, but I'm not expecting a repeat, or anything close to it, from McCown. While Glennon faded down the stretch, overall I thought he showed a lot of promise. He took care of the ball, showed a strong arm, and didn't seem overwhelmed by the situation, despite the fact that he was viewed as a project to begin with. That Tampa offense wasn't exactly fertile ground for a young QB last year, yet he performed admirably well. By stunting that development with a stopgap like McCown, I feel like they are setting themselves back. I was looking forward to Glennon having a full off-season to prepare, and head into the year as the starter.

I think Buc's fans are going to be disappointed by McCown now that he won't have Marshall, Jeffrey, Bennett, and that Trestman system to boost him. I know Tedford is QB friendly as well, but there is no denying that the primary receiving options are all a step below what the Bears had last year. Unless they are planning to draft another QB to develop, and are just giving up on Glennon already, I think this is a mistake. Especially with Lovie already declaring that McCown is his QB, before a competition even starts.

 
I don't think VJax and Mike Williams are THAT far below Marshall and Jeffrey. Maybe not as good but they are certainly very productive.

 
Premier said:
I don't think VJax and Mike Williams are THAT far below Marshall and Jeffrey. Maybe not as good but they are certainly very productive.
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How much better is certainly something that can be debated, but I am pretty confident that most will agree Marshall > VJax, Jeffrey > Williams, and Bennett > Wright/Myers. I would go so far as to say Jeffrey is vastly superior to Williams. All of that isn't even taking into consideration that Chicago also has one of the best pass catching RB's in the game, with Forte. The Tampa crew isn't awful, but overall, the Chicago passing situation was pretty ideal for a QB to thrive, and I don't think you can say that about Tampa.

 
Bucs signed LT Anthony Collins to a five-year, $30 million contract.


The deal includes $15 million guaranteed. Collins was our No. 4 tackle in free agency, behind only Eugene Monroe, Jared Veldheer and Branden Albert. The former Bengal was a dominant pass blocker last season, giving up zero sacks, one quarterback hit and 12 quarterback hurries even though Andy Dalton attempted 586 passes. Collins is an upgrade on oft-overweight Donald Penn, who is now firmly on the trade block. The Raiders should be on the phone. Mar 13 - 10:38 AM
 
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Mene said:
Premier said:
I don't think VJax and Mike Williams are THAT far below Marshall and Jeffrey. Maybe not as good but they are certainly very productive.
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How much better is certainly something that can be debated, but I am pretty confident that most will agree Marshall > VJax, Jeffrey > Williams, and Bennett > Wright/Myers. I would go so far as to say Jeffrey is vastly superior to Williams. All of that isn't even taking into consideration that Chicago also has one of the best pass catching RB's in the game, with Forte. The Tampa crew isn't awful, but overall, the Chicago passing situation was pretty ideal for a QB to thrive, and I don't think you can say that about Tampa.
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I definitely disagree with your last sentence (Jackson is very very good and so is Martin out of the backfield) but whatever. We'll see in September.

 
Just saw on local Tampa news that Lovie has already named McCown the starting QB.

 
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Premier said:
I don't think VJax and Mike Williams are THAT far below Marshall and Jeffrey. Maybe not as good but they are certainly very productive.
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Wish there was a NOT like button for this one...look, I like what they have done but Bucs vs Bears at WR, not even close. Bears WRs rock, sorry GB.

 
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Jackson the last two years:

150 for 2604

Marshall:

218 for for 2803

Jeffery had a huge season last year. 1400 yards. He's a stud. 16 yards a catch. Williams was hurt last year but in 2012 he caught 63 balls for a 1000 yards......16 yards a catch.

Again never once have I said the Bucs receivers are as good, but it's not that far of a drop off.

 
Premier said:
Jackson the last two years:

150 for 2604

Marshall:

218 for for 2803

Jeffery had a huge season last year. 1400 yards. He's a stud. 16 yards a catch. Williams was hurt last year but in 2012 he caught 63 balls for a 1000 yards......16 yards a catch.

Again never once have I said the Bucs receivers are as good, but it's not that far of a drop off.
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Is mike williams even going to be on the team? there was talk of him getting cut, no?

 
Tool said:
Premier said:
Jackson the last two years:

150 for 2604

Marshall:

218 for for 2803

Jeffery had a huge season last year. 1400 yards. He's a stud. 16 yards a catch. Williams was hurt last year but in 2012 he caught 63 balls for a 1000 yards......16 yards a catch.

Again never once have I said the Bucs receivers are as good, but it's not that far of a drop off.
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Is mike williams even going to be on the team? there was talk of him getting cut, no?
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I have no idea. He currently is.

 
Premier said:
Jackson the last two years:

150 for 2604

Marshall:

218 for for 2803

Jeffery had a huge season last year. 1400 yards. He's a stud. 16 yards a catch. Williams was hurt last year but in 2012 he caught 63 balls for a 1000 yards......16 yards a catch.

Again never once have I said the Bucs receivers are as good, but it's not that far of a drop off.
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I didn't say it was a huge drop-off either, but it I do think it's comparing good and great. The biggest individual drop off in my opinion is the Jeffrey/Williams comparison. M.Williams is a good receiver, I would agree, but Jeffrey looked like he could be/will be elite. It's not just the numbers, I watch a lot of NFC North football, so I saw what Jeffrey was doing this year. That guy is more than just a ready made ESPN TD Highlight, he can really dominate a game.

Going step by step

I would prefer Marshall over VJax. It's close, I agree, but Marshall just seems far more reliable.

I would obviously prefer Jeffrey over Williams, and that one isn't really close.

I would prefer Bennett over Wright/Myers. That one isn't all that close for me either. Bennett is a really talented TE, his shortcomings seem to be on the mental side, concentration. Myers and Wright are just guys.

I would prefer Forte over Martin, if we are talking strictly as a receiving option. I love Doug Martin, I believe in his talent, and don't agree with this boards detractors. That said, Matt Forte is an exceptional receiver out of the backfield, easily one of the best in the league. His numbers, through multiple offensive systems now, have been consistently outstanding.

While the individual battles may be close, Chicago is in my opinion better at each spot, and that makes me comfortable in saying that Chicago was a better situation. Factor in the Trestman effect, I believe most would agree he is as QB friendly as it gets, and it makes the entire Chicago situation pretty close to ideal. While Tampa isn't bad, I don't think you can compare the two passing situations and say they are close.

I'm a Tampa fan, they are my surrogate team, since my hometown Lion's are such clown show. I'm also realistic. This whole conversation started because I stated I am not fond of the McCown signing and declaring him "my QB" before there is any competition. McCown excelled in an ideal situation last year, I don't think he will come near replicating that in Tampa this year. I think they are making a mistake by not continuing to develop Glennon, but this entire situation shows that they obviously don't feel that way.

 
Mike Williams was hurt much of the time he was playing last season but he has been great since his rookie season. He was the #1 wr his rookie season and did pretty well surrounded by mediocre talent.

I think Jeffrey was a product of teams game planning against Marshall. I don't think Jeffrey could be a #1 in the league.

The more I think about the draft I think we could see the Bucs go Evans if Watkins isn't there. We know they have brought in Ginn & Sanders, so WR is still a position of need. They may not have a shot at Watkins at #7 but Evans should be there.

They said Collins is starting LT, McCown starting QB, and Johnson fills the DE need. Unless they are drafting for depth then I think we can say they don't go QB, OT, or DE. I'm leaning WR, Mack / Barr, or trade down at this point.

I'm still unsure about the LB position in Lovies D. Foster isn't the ideal MLB, so maybe they grab an ILB and let him compete with Cassillas on the strong side.

 
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McCown said he wanted to go where he could be a starter. IMO that was the only way Lovie could lure him here, and at a bargain price.

 
65 - 759 - 7 - 11.7

54 - 571 - 5 - 10.6

First is Bennett in his 6th season in the league. Second is Wright playing 11 games. Wright is a very capable pass catcher. Just based off his receiving skills, I think I would prefer him moving forward.

Good post mene, agree with a lot of what you're saying though, especially with the second wideout. I just think McCown is walking into a pretty good situation here as well.

 
I'd be willing to concede the Bennett/Wright comparison, that one is close to a coin flip for me. I do like Wright, just hope he can develop as a blocker. He's a WR at TE right now, but he's definitely a solid pass catcher.

 
I wouldn't be surprised if they drafted a QB and then tried to trade Glennon. He isn't the right QB for the spread offense Tedford wants to run.

 
Gotta predict offense. Either OL or WR would be my guess. With Mike Williams being kinda iffy, they don't have much after VJax.

Edit to add: Another possibility would be a QB to groom while McCown is a stopgap. Not enamored with that based on the reviews of the QBs so far.

 
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No way they go OL after their FA signings and they have Dotson on the right side.

Not sure what they will draft at 7, but I have to imagine OL and safety are the two positions off the board.

 
Premier said:
No way they go OL after their FA signings and they have Dotson on the right side.

Not sure what they will draft at 7, but I have to imagine OL and safety are the two positions off the board.
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Not sure safety should be off the board for Tampa. I think that free agent signing of Desean Goldson was a bad signing for Tampa. Always getting disciplined by the league for late hits and helmet to helmet hits. He knows what he must do and he refuses to change his game. They paid him a ridiculous amount of money to be their starting free safety and I don't think they will ever get their money's worth. I'm surprised they didn't try to trade him already.



As for the #7 pick, it would be gutsy, but I really like the Johnny Manziel kid for the Bucs. He's a playmaker and is going to compete hard with Josh McCown in the preseason, if not overtake him by the regular season. Both McCown and Manziel will be upgrades over Mike Glennon, who is another guy the Bucs should dangle in trade.

 
bucsbaby said:
Gotta predict offense. Either OL or WR would be my guess. With Mike Williams being kinda iffy, they don't have much after VJax.

Edit to add: Another possibility would be a QB to groom while McCown is a stopgap. Not enamored with that based on the reviews of the QBs so far.
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They're in a pretty good spot in most draft scenarios now after filling so many holes. I would prefer Watkins or Evans, but one of the tackles would be nice as well, but do any of the LTs fit on the right side? Maybe all 3 or at least 2 of the top QBs will be available and they can back up a few spots if Clowney, Watkins, Mack, and the tackles all get drafted 1-6? That could really be a worst case scenario if nobody wants to move up for a QB.

It's hard for me to envision a QB being the pick. Why go out in free agency and spend all this money adding starters only to break in a rookie at the most important position on the field? A QB with that pick basically has to start right away. That being said, all of the starters they added are 28 or younger, so there is some time to break in a young QB. So, groom Glennon if that's the plan. I don't see why any of these 3 players (Bortles, Bridgewater, Manziel) are head and shoulders better than him. Draft a guy in the 5th. They still need someone else.

Aaron Donald intrigues me. He projects as a 3-technique tackle, and the Bucs obviously have one of those in Gerald McCoy, but if you're building a relentless pass rush he's the cream of the crop from the interior. Mold the line after the Seahawks and just keep sending fresh players after the QB.

 
Grahamburn said:
bucsbaby said:
Gotta predict offense. Either OL or WR would be my guess. With Mike Williams being kinda iffy, they don't have much after VJax.

Edit to add: Another possibility would be a QB to groom while McCown is a stopgap. Not enamored with that based on the reviews of the QBs so far.
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They're in a pretty good spot in most draft scenarios now after filling so many holes. I would prefer Watkins or Evans, but one of the tackles would be nice as well, but do any of the LTs fit on the right side? Maybe all 3 or at least 2 of the top QBs will be available and they can back up a few spots if Clowney, Watkins, Mack, and the tackles all get drafted 1-6? That could really be a worst case scenario if nobody wants to move up for a QB.

It's hard for me to envision a QB being the pick. Why go out in free agency and spend all this money adding starters only to break in a rookie at the most important position on the field? A QB with that pick basically has to start right away. That being said, all of the starters they added are 28 or younger, so there is some time to break in a young QB. So, groom Glennon if that's the plan. I don't see why any of these 3 players (Bortles, Bridgewater, Manziel) are head and shoulders better than him. Draft a guy in the 5th. They still need someone else.

Aaron Donald intrigues me. He projects as a 3-technique tackle, and the Bucs obviously have one of those in Gerald McCoy, but if you're building a relentless pass rush he's the cream of the crop from the interior. Mold the line after the Seahawks and just keep sending fresh players after the QB.
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I disagree that a rookie QB has to start for you. I think the Bucs got a decent bridge QB in place in Josh McCown. He will mind the fort while your rookie QB finds his NFL feet under him. It's a perfect situation to go QB if your guy you like falls to you at 7. Donald is a reach at 7, and a little undersized for what many of the draftnicks are touting him to be.

 
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