Iran Launches "Large Scale Attack" on Israel (21 Viewers)

[El Floppo]

From a NYTimes breaking news email...

Iran Confirms Cease-Fire With Israel After Trump Announcement
Iranian state television announced a cease-fire with Israel early Tuesday, hours after President Trump said an agreement had been reached. The Israeli government had no immediate comment, but said the Iranian military was continuing to launch missiles at Israel.

From Al-jazeera breaking news (maybe their reporter doesn't watch TV?)

Trump says Israel-Iran ceasefire is now in effect

Announcement comes after Iran fires several volleys of missiles at Israel, killing at least four people in Beersheba.

www.aljazeera.com

Tohid Asadi
Tohid Asadi
Reporting from Tehran, Iran

With the ceasefire between Iran and Israel now in effect, there’s an opportunity for the two sides to step back after 12 days of intense fighting.

But the situation on the ground is still very fragile.

According to the latest post on social media by Iranian Foreign Minister Abbas Araghchi, Tehran has not agreed so far to a ceasefire. There’s actually no official announcement of an agreement on the Iranian side. So we are still waiting for confirmation on that.

Over the last few hours, we have not heard of the continuation of any Israeli strikes in Tehran, which is a promising indication about the prospect of the ceasefire as declared by US President Donald Trump.

Iranians are also saying that if they see a new volley of attacks against the country that they will also strike back.

 

[The Z Machine]

Why wouldn't the Iranians simply redoible their effort and try to push from 60% to weapon breakout? Doing so even further underground where the bunker busters can't reach? Even if it takes another decade to do so. And if Israel has infiltrated the Iranian nuclear security apparatus, then it needs to be purged of those unloyal or any technical vulnerabilities. Isn't that the lesson that is taught here?

If I were leading Iran there are only 2 ways that lead to my country not getting worked over like this. 1) drop the nuke program, reduce spend on defense, invest in their economy after sanctions are lifted. 2) Double down and try to produce a nuclear weapon using the Uranium preserved.

I would choose #1, but why do we think the religious fanatics in Iran will not choose #2?

 

[Zeppelin]

This thread's days are numbered imo. People just can't keep it in their pants. Very sad.

@Joe Bryant
@FBG Moderator
I know the mods have your work cut out for you sometimes but I don't even know what's ok to post and what's not. I reported what I thought was a blatantly political post and nobody did anything about it.

I don't want this to be about criticizing you guys. I want it to be about trying to understand what can be posted and what can't because I really don't know.

I get all of my information here. The opinions and some back and forth's are important too. But the ones that should not be allowed are, for example, "Trump made a great decision" or "Trump showed strength" or "Trump doesn't know what he's doing", etc. Those lead to the arguments and sniping and sometimes it seems the original post stays and the ones that respond are deleted.

This is one of the most important threads we have and I'd like it to stick around.

 

[Zeppelin]

Why wouldn't the Iranians simply redoible their effort and try to push from 60% to weapon breakout? Doing so even further underground where the bunker busters can't reach? Even if it takes another decade to do so. And if Israel has infiltrated the Iranian nuclear security apparatus, then it needs to be purged of those unloyal or any technical vulnerabilities. Isn't that the lesson that is taught here?

If I were leading Iran there are only 2 ways that lead to my country not getting worked over like this. 1) drop the nuke program, reduce spend on defense, invest in their economy after sanctions are lifted. 2) Double down and try to produce a nuclear weapon using the Uranium preserved.

I would choose #1, but why do we think the religious fanatics in Iran will not choose #2?

The bolded is the million dollar question. I think they would choose #2 but that's just speculation.

 

[Joe Bryant]

This thread's days are numbered imo. People just can't keep it in their pants. Very sad.

@Joe Bryant
@FBG Moderator
I know the mods have your work cut out for you sometimes but I don't even know what's ok to post and what's not. I reported what I thought was a blatantly political post and nobody did anything about it.

I don't want this to be about criticizing you guys. I want it to be about trying to understand what can be posted and what can't because I really don't know.

I get all of my information here. The opinions and some back and forth's are important too. But the ones that should not be allowed are, for example, "Trump made a great decision" or "Trump showed strength" or "Trump doesn't know what he's doing", etc. Those lead to the arguments and sniping and sometimes it seems the original post stays and the ones that respond are deleted.

This is one of the most important threads we have and I'd like it to stick around.

If you’re not sure if something is over the line politically or not, please don’t post it. That’s always the best way.

 

[djmich]

Why wouldn't the Iranians simply redoible their effort and try to push from 60% to weapon breakout? Doing so even further underground where the bunker busters can't reach? Even if it takes another decade to do so. And if Israel has infiltrated the Iranian nuclear security apparatus, then it needs to be purged of those unloyal or any technical vulnerabilities. Isn't that the lesson that is taught here?

If I were leading Iran there are only 2 ways that lead to my country not getting worked over like this. 1) drop the nuke program, reduce spend on defense, invest in their economy after sanctions are lifted. 2) Double down and try to produce a nuclear weapon using the Uranium preserved.

I would choose #1, but why do we think the religious fanatics in Iran will not choose #2?

I wouldn’t be surprised if they “try” #2, but imo this is all a game. Just like shooting a few missiles at empty barracks.

Sure they’d love nukes, just like they’d love their missiles to kill Jews and americans. But their #1,2 and 3 priorities are keeping their great gigs, and playing this game is how they’ve been able to do it and why stop what works.

Will they double down? If they can maybe. But why double down, just make a show and keep the game going, the game is good to them.

 

[Peggy]

What an outstanding show of strength before peace. Nuke program gone, results in an Israeli-Iran ceasefire.
Amazing.

I find it fascinating that you trust the media here in reporting events accurately but don't trust your own doctors. It's an amazing study in humankind. Especially after the country we live in fabricated an entire story about weapons of mass destruction to launch us into a disastrous war 20 years ago.

This is what I'd like to go back to school and study. People like you, specifically.

Where did I say I don't trust my own doctor? I don't think you got a link for that do you? TIA

Maybe you should go back to school for your reading comprehension.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Why wouldn't the Iranians simply redoible their effort and try to push from 60% to weapon breakout? Doing so even further underground where the bunker busters can't reach? Even if it takes another decade to do so. And if Israel has infiltrated the Iranian nuclear security apparatus, then it needs to be purged of those unloyal or any technical vulnerabilities. Isn't that the lesson that is taught here?

If I were leading Iran there are only 2 ways that lead to my country not getting worked over like this. 1) drop the nuke program, reduce spend on defense, invest in their economy after sanctions are lifted. 2) Double down and try to produce a nuclear weapon using the Uranium preserved.

I would choose #1, but why do we think the religious fanatics in Iran will not choose #2?

The bolded is the million dollar question. I think they would choose #2 but that's just speculation.

Just throwing out a hypothetical here....

We live in an alternate universe where there is no country of 50 united states surrounded by vast oceans on either side. We are some form of a much smaller collective of North American nation states.

The largely Mormon country Deseret has just had it's nuclear facilities buried deep in the Rocky Mountains hit by the always aggressive Canada, a country seemingly always dropping munitions somewhere.

You're just gonna roll over and say "Welp, nothing we can do about that illegal strike challenging our sovereignty. Guess we have to throw out 70 years of atomic research and just comply, right? Whaddayagonnado."

Listen, Iran is a rogue state, and I'm not a fan of religious extremists in general. But it doesn't take too many calories to look at this from another perspective. Just sayin'....

 

[Desert_Power]

We KNOW all their sites outside of Fordow have been wiped off the earth.

No, we don't.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/06/23/us-iran-nuclear-bomb-damage-assessment/

Iran has dozens of sites associated with its nuclear program, which it has insisted is only for peaceful and civilian activities such as power generation and research. The day before Israel started its attacks this month, the government in Tehran said it had constructed a new facility outside Natanz that could be used to build new centrifuges. That site is even deeper underground than the enrichment facility at Fordow, built a few hundred feet into a mountain and thought to be the limit of what U.S. “bunker buster” bombs could reach. “The point is they have material that they have made at other facilities,” Lewis said in an interview. “We don’t know what became of that.” Lewis and others suggested that the United States was aware of the limitations of a military attack on the widespread Iranian nuclear program and was more interested in showing Tehran that Washington was prepared to use force to stop it. “It is a loss for the Iranians,” Lewis said of the destruction at Fordow, Isfahan and Natanz, “but it is not anything like the scale of the attack you would mount if the goal was really to eliminate the program.This problem has delayed them, and undoubtedly there must be things that have been destroyed that they now have to reconstitute,” he said, but the rebuilding could probably be done in no more than a year.

There is even reporting about how the US/Israel purposely avoided the reactors at Isfahan. They are still in tact: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...ite-images-suggest-us-avoided-iran-s-reactors

 

[Snotbubbles]

Can we please just go back to talking about these topics freely in a separate forum?

My understanding is the FBG Discord has a vibrant political discussion. I think we lost @rockaction to it. Maybe he can pop in here and verify.

FBG discord is awful political discussion as it is all far left people and they attack any right minded posters

So pretty much just like the dead political forum here.

 

[Phil Elliott]

From a NYTimes breaking news email...

Iran Confirms Cease-Fire With Israel After Trump Announcement
Iranian state television announced a cease-fire with Israel early Tuesday, hours after President Trump said an agreement had been reached. The Israeli government had no immediate comment, but said the Iranian military was continuing to launch missiles at Israel.

From Al-jazeera breaking news (maybe their reporter doesn't watch TV?)

Trump says Israel-Iran ceasefire is now in effect

Announcement comes after Iran fires several volleys of missiles at Israel, killing at least four people in Beersheba.

www.aljazeera.com

Tohid Asadi
Tohid Asadi
Reporting from Tehran, Iran

With the ceasefire between Iran and Israel now in effect, there’s an opportunity for the two sides to step back after 12 days of intense fighting.

But the situation on the ground is still very fragile.

According to the latest post on social media by Iranian Foreign Minister Abbas Araghchi, Tehran has not agreed so far to a ceasefire. There’s actually no official announcement of an agreement on the Iranian side. So we are still waiting for confirmation on that.

Over the last few hours, we have not heard of the continuation of any Israeli strikes in Tehran, which is a promising indication about the prospect of the ceasefire as declared by US President Donald Trump.

Iranians are also saying that if they see a new volley of attacks against the country that they will also strike back.

Cease fire deal is huge if both sides can resist getting the last shot in.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Can we please just go back to talking about these topics freely in a separate forum?

My understanding is the FBG Discord has a vibrant political discussion. I think we lost @rockaction to it. Maybe he can pop in here and verify.

FBG discord is awful political discussion as it is all far left people and they attack any right minded posters

Please don't pursue that topic. That discord has nothing to do with this forum.

 

[Ilov80s]

Why wouldn't the Iranians simply redoible their effort and try to push from 60% to weapon breakout? Doing so even further underground where the bunker busters can't reach? Even if it takes another decade to do so. And if Israel has infiltrated the Iranian nuclear security apparatus, then it needs to be purged of those unloyal or any technical vulnerabilities. Isn't that the lesson that is taught here?

If I were leading Iran there are only 2 ways that lead to my country not getting worked over like this. 1) drop the nuke program, reduce spend on defense, invest in their economy after sanctions are lifted. 2) Double down and try to produce a nuclear weapon using the Uranium preserved.

I would choose #1, but why do we think the religious fanatics in Iran will not choose #2?

The bolded is the million dollar question. I think they would choose #2 but that's just speculation.

Just throwing out a hypothetical here....

We live in an alternate universe where there is no country of 50 united states surrounded by vast oceans on either side. We are some form of a much smaller collective of North American nation states.

The largely Mormon country Deseret has just had it's nuclear facilities buried deep in the Rocky Mountains hit by the always aggressive Canada, a country seemingly always dropping munitions somewhere.

You're just gonna roll over and say "Welp, nothing we can do about that illegal strike challenging our sovereignty. Guess we have to throw out 70 years of atomic research and just comply, right? Whaddayagonnado."

Listen, Iran is a rogue state, and I'm not a fan of religious extremists in general. But it doesn't take too many calories to look at this from another perspective. Just sayin'....

There is a reason nobody messes with North Korea. Ukraine is probably thinking they wouldn't be in the situation the are now if they had a nuclear weapons. It's easy to see why Iran wants them.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Listen, Iran is a rogue state, and I'm not a fan of religious extremists in general. But it doesn't take too many calories to look at this from another perspective. Just sayin'....

There is a reason nobody messes with North Korea. Ukraine is probably thinking they wouldn't be in the situation the are now if they had a nuclear weapons. It's easy to see why Iran wants them.

"You can't always get what you want"

 

[Ministry of Pain]

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/iran-israel-us-latest-news?gaa_at=eafs&gaa_n=ASWzDAil_CJChH9yB_owpr8BJD1xayD_1u_KptEZnJDgnv-azQaLlTHt9QQVGkS4O8g%3D&gaa_ts=685aab66&gaa_sig=Wz6-AweyFQL14ydvfKgoDCyblwo4NPKmKkl_cO2LUAV7Rg2-I6GvLUMCACuDk9cRPyiE6uGU6n2mnnRlxUNJlg%3D%3D

-Trump scolding both countries for violating the cease fire

Trump launches F-word rant at Israel and Iran for breaking ceasefire

LIVE UPDATES: Donald Trump warned the warring sides to 'please not violate' the ceasefire last night, declaring that it marked a new chapter of 'world peace'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

-Trump drops the F-Bombs on live TV

 

[Psychopav]

This thread's days are numbered imo. People just can't keep it in their pants. Very sad.

Maybe stop posting things like this then? It adds nothing to the discussion and draws attention away from the topic. We are all adults here, maybe let the powers that be decide what is crossing a line and stop with the hall monitor act.

Define "hall monitor act" without being ironic. Gll peas

 

[BobbyLayne]

How the United States Helped Create Iran’s Nuclear Program​

A reactor in Tehran is a monument to the U.S. relationship with Iran when the country was led by a secular, pro-Western monarch.

By Michael Crowley NYT

Reporting from Washington

• June 24, 2025

When President Trump ordered a military strike on Iran’s nuclear program, he was confronting a crisis that the United States unwittingly set in motion decades ago by providing Tehran with the seeds of nuclear technology.

Tucked into Tehran’s northern suburbs is a small nuclear reactor used for peaceful scientific purposes, which has so far not been a target of Israel’s campaign to eliminate Iran’s nuclear weapons capability.

The Tehran Research Reactor’s real significance is symbolic: It was shipped to Iran by the United States in the 1960s, part of President Dwight D. Eisenhower’s “Atoms for Peace” program that shared nuclear technology with U.S. allies eager to modernize their economies and move closer to Washington in a world divided by the Cold War.

Today, the reactor does not contribute to Iran’s enrichment of uranium, the arduous process that purifies the raw ingredient of nuclear bombs into a state that can sustain a massive chain reaction. It runs on nuclear fuel far too weak to power a bomb. Several other nations, including Pakistan, bear at least as much responsibility for Iran’s march to the threshold of nuclear weapons capability, experts say.

But the Tehran reactor is also a monument to the way America introduced Iran — then governed by a secular, pro-Western monarch — to nuclear technology.

Iran’s nuclear program quickly became an object of national pride, first as an engine of economic growth and later, to the West’s dismay, as a potential source of ultimate military power.

It is a legacy of a dramatically different world, one in which America had yet to grasp how fast the nuclear secrets it unlocked at the end of World War II would pose a threat to the United States.

“We gave Iran its starter kit,” said Robert Einhorn, a former arms control official who worked on U.S. negotiations with Iran to limit its nuclear program.

“We weren’t terribly concerned about nuclear proliferation in those days, so we were pretty promiscuous about transferring nuclear technology,” said Mr. Einhorn, now a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution. “We got other countries started in the nuclear business.”

“Atoms for Peace” was born of a speech Mr. Eisenhower delivered at the United Nations in December 1953, in which he warned of the dangers of a nuclear arms race with the Soviet Union and vowed to lead the world “out of this dark chamber of horrors into the light.”

Mr. Eisenhower explained that the world should better understand such a destructive technology, and that its secrets should be shared and put to constructive use. “It is not enough just to take this weapon out of the hands of the soldiers,” he said. “It must be put into the hands of those who will know how to strip its military casing and adapt it to the arts of peace.”

The gesture was more than altruistic. Many historians argue that Mr. Eisenhower was providing cover for an American nuclear arms buildup already underway. He was also influenced by scientists, including J. Robert Oppenheimer, who had helped to develop the atomic bomb that destroyed Hiroshima and Nagasaki less than a decade earlier. “It was their contrition for participating in the development of the bomb,” Mr. Einhorn said.

The Eisenhower administration also saw the program as a way to gain influence over important pieces on the global Cold War chessboard. They included Israel, Pakistan and Iran, which were given nuclear information, training and equipment to be used for peaceful purposes, such as science, medicine and energy.

The Iran that received an American research reactor in 1967 was very different from the country ruled today by clerics and generals. It was led then by a monarch, or shah, Mohammed Reza Pahlavi, a Swiss-educated aristocrat installed in a 1953 coup backed by the C.I.A., to the lasting anger of many Iranians.

Mr. Pahlavi was determined to modernize his nation and make it a world power, with American backing. He liberalized Iranian society, promoting secularism and Western education even as he harshly repressed political opposition. He banned the woman’s veil and promoted modern art — Andy Warhol once painted his portrait — while investing in literacy and infrastructure.

Kick-started by “Atoms for Peace,” Mr. Pahlavi budgeted billions of dollars for an Iranian nuclear program that he saw as a guarantee of his country’s energy independence, despite its existing vast oil production, and a source of national pride. The United States welcomed young Iranian scientists to special nuclear training courses at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

Expanding its program in the 1970s, Iran struck deals with its European allies. During a visit to Paris in 1974, Mr. Pahlavi was celebrated at Versailles before signing a billion-dollar agreement to purchase five 1,000-megawatt nuclear reactors from France.

At first, the shah was a poster boy for the peaceful use of nuclear power. A group of New England utility companies put out full-page ads featuring an image of the shah, who was then widely admired in the United States. Mr. Pahlavi “wouldn’t build the plants now if he doubted their safety,” the ad said. “He’d wait. As many Americans want to do.”

But although the United States had persuaded Iran to sign the 1968 Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty, in which the country accepted international safeguards and officials forswore nuclear weapons, suspicions about Mr. Pahlavi’s intentions were growing in Washington. A New York Times article in 1974 noted that Iran’s reactor deal with France made “no public mention of safeguards against using the reactors as a base for making nuclear weapons.”

Soon the shah was talking about Iran’s “right” to produce nuclear fuel at home, a capability that can also be applied to nuclear weapons development. He denounced discussions about outside limits on Iran’s nuclear activity as a violation of national sovereignty — talking points still used by Iran’s leadership. As Washington expressed greater concern, Mr. Pahlavi turned to a wider range of nations for nuclear assistance: Germany would build more reactors, and South Africa would supply raw uranium, or “yellowcake.”

By 1978, the Carter administration was alarmed enough to insist that an Iranian contract to purchase eight American reactors be amended. The new version would prohibit Iran from reprocessing without permission any U.S.-supplied fuel for its nuclear reactors into a form that could be used for nuclear weapons.

The American reactors were never delivered. In 1979, the Islamic Revolution, fueled in part by hatred of America and its support for the shah, swept across Iran and deposed Mr. Pahlavi.

For a time, the problem of Iran’s nuclear ambitions seemed to have solved itself. Iran’s new clerical rulers, led by Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, initially showed little interest in continuing an expensive project associated with the shah and Western powers.

But after a brutal eight-year war with Iraq in the 1980s, Ayatollah Khomeini reconsidered the value of nuclear technology. This time, Iran turned east — to Pakistan, another “Atoms for Peace” beneficiary that was by then within a decade of testing a nuclear bomb. The Pakistani scientist and nuclear black marketeer Abdul Qadeer Khan sold Iran centrifuges to enrich uranium to bomb-grade levels of purity.

Iran’s acquisition of centrifuges was the real reason its nuclear program escalated into a global crisis, said Gary Samore, the top White House nuclear official in the Clinton and Obama administrations.

 

[BobbyLayne]

(continued)

“Iran’s enrichment program is not the result of U.S. assistance,” Mr. Samore said. “The Iranians got their centrifuge technology from Pakistan, and they have developed their centrifuges based on that Pakistani technology — which itself was based on European designs.”

But those centrifuges were put to use by an Iranian nuclear establishment created by America decades earlier.

For years, Iran secretly advanced its nuclear program, building more centrifuges and enriching uranium that could one day be fashioned into a bomb. After Iran’s secret nuclear facilities were exposed in 2002, the U.S. and its European allies demanded that the country stop its enrichment and come clean about its nuclear activities.

After more than 20 years of diplomacy — and now airstrikes by Israel and the United States — the confrontation remains unresolved. Despite Mr. Trump’s initial claims that Saturday’s bombing raid “totally obliterated” three Iranian nuclear sites, portions remain intact.

The United States can still learn from its painful experience, Mr. Samore said. The Trump administration has continued negotiations, begun under President Joseph R. Biden Jr., for the potential transfer of U.S. nuclear technology to Saudi Arabia — another Middle East ally ruled by a strongman with grand ambitions for modernizing his nation.

It has been U.S. policy for decades not to share the know-how to produce nuclear fuel — which can also be used to make bombs — with countries that do not already have it, Mr. Samore noted. “And we’ve gone out of our way to block allies, including South Korea, from acquiring fuel enrichment and reprocessing capabilities,” he said.

The Saudis are ostensibly seeking the ability to enrich uranium for nuclear power.

“But this kind of technology can also be used for nuclear weapons,” Mr. Samore added. “And from my standpoint, it would be a terrible precedent to help a country like Saudi Arabia, or any country that doesn’t have that capability.”

Michael Crowley covers the State Department and U.S. foreign policy for The Times. He has reported from nearly three dozen countries and often travels with the secretary of state.

 

[AAABatteries]

Can we please just go back to talking about these topics freely in a separate forum?

My understanding is the FBG Discord has a vibrant political discussion. I think we lost @rockaction to it. Maybe he can pop in here and verify.

FBG discord is awful political discussion as it is all far left people and they attack any right minded posters

Please don't pursue that topic. That discord has nothing to do with this forum.

Moderators there are a bunch of ########.

 

[AAABatteries]

From a NYTimes breaking news email...

Iran Confirms Cease-Fire With Israel After Trump Announcement
Iranian state television announced a cease-fire with Israel early Tuesday, hours after President Trump said an agreement had been reached. The Israeli government had no immediate comment, but said the Iranian military was continuing to launch missiles at Israel.

From Al-jazeera breaking news (maybe their reporter doesn't watch TV?)

Trump says Israel-Iran ceasefire is now in effect

Announcement comes after Iran fires several volleys of missiles at Israel, killing at least four people in Beersheba.

www.aljazeera.com

Tohid Asadi
Tohid Asadi
Reporting from Tehran, Iran

With the ceasefire between Iran and Israel now in effect, there’s an opportunity for the two sides to step back after 12 days of intense fighting.

But the situation on the ground is still very fragile.

According to the latest post on social media by Iranian Foreign Minister Abbas Araghchi, Tehran has not agreed so far to a ceasefire. There’s actually no official announcement of an agreement on the Iranian side. So we are still waiting for confirmation on that.

Over the last few hours, we have not heard of the continuation of any Israeli strikes in Tehran, which is a promising indication about the prospect of the ceasefire as declared by US President Donald Trump.

Iranians are also saying that if they see a new volley of attacks against the country that they will also strike back.

Cease fire deal is huge if both sides can resist getting the last shot in.

I’m willing to consider I may be the least knowledgeable person in this thread on the Middle East but I find it impossible to believe that these groups will ever get along.

 

[Chadstroma]

We KNOW all their sites outside of Fordow have been wiped off the earth.

No, we don't.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/06/23/us-iran-nuclear-bomb-damage-assessment/

Iran has dozens of sites associated with its nuclear program, which it has insisted is only for peaceful and civilian activities such as power generation and research. The day before Israel started its attacks this month, the government in Tehran said it had constructed a new facility outside Natanz that could be used to build new centrifuges. That site is even deeper underground than the enrichment facility at Fordow, built a few hundred feet into a mountain and thought to be the limit of what U.S. “bunker buster” bombs could reach. “The point is they have material that they have made at other facilities,” Lewis said in an interview. “We don’t know what became of that.” Lewis and others suggested that the United States was aware of the limitations of a military attack on the widespread Iranian nuclear program and was more interested in showing Tehran that Washington was prepared to use force to stop it. “It is a loss for the Iranians,” Lewis said of the destruction at Fordow, Isfahan and Natanz, “but it is not anything like the scale of the attack you would mount if the goal was really to eliminate the program.This problem has delayed them, and undoubtedly there must be things that have been destroyed that they now have to reconstitute,” he said, but the rebuilding could probably be done in no more than a year.

There is even reporting about how the US/Israel purposely avoided the reactors at Isfahan. They are still in tact: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...ite-images-suggest-us-avoided-iran-s-reactors

Yes, those are research reactors. Also not targeted was the operational nuclear power plant in Bushehr. These are actual civilian use reactors that are operational. Attacking them would have a high risk of radiational leakage. Further, they are not directly applicable to military usage.

Mossad has infiltrated the Iranian regime to a high degree. I would put my money on them and Israel being satisfied (beyond making an educational guess) that the Iranian nuclear arms program has been sufficiently degraded than I would a bunch of dingbat journalists that most often have no clue about anything to do with military, intelligence, nuclear engineering, etc. Hell, I am a dingbat civilian with no real expertise in these subjects and I can see the cluelessness of these reporters.

 

[AAABatteries]

General war engagement question - and It may have been discussed here or in some of the links but when Israel or the US fly planes over Syria, Jordan or wherever do they request airspace access?

 

[Desert_Power]

We KNOW all their sites outside of Fordow have been wiped off the earth.

No, we don't.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/06/23/us-iran-nuclear-bomb-damage-assessment/

Iran has dozens of sites associated with its nuclear program, which it has insisted is only for peaceful and civilian activities such as power generation and research. The day before Israel started its attacks this month, the government in Tehran said it had constructed a new facility outside Natanz that could be used to build new centrifuges. That site is even deeper underground than the enrichment facility at Fordow, built a few hundred feet into a mountain and thought to be the limit of what U.S. “bunker buster” bombs could reach. “The point is they have material that they have made at other facilities,” Lewis said in an interview. “We don’t know what became of that.” Lewis and others suggested that the United States was aware of the limitations of a military attack on the widespread Iranian nuclear program and was more interested in showing Tehran that Washington was prepared to use force to stop it. “It is a loss for the Iranians,” Lewis said of the destruction at Fordow, Isfahan and Natanz, “but it is not anything like the scale of the attack you would mount if the goal was really to eliminate the program.This problem has delayed them, and undoubtedly there must be things that have been destroyed that they now have to reconstitute,” he said, but the rebuilding could probably be done in no more than a year.

There is even reporting about how the US/Israel purposely avoided the reactors at Isfahan. They are still in tact: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...ite-images-suggest-us-avoided-iran-s-reactors

Yes, those are research reactors. Also not targeted was the operational nuclear power plant in Bushehr. These are actual civilian use reactors that are operational. Attacking them would have a high risk of radiational leakage. Further, they are not directly applicable to military usage.

Mossad has infiltrated the Iranian regime to a high degree. I would put my money on them and Israel being satisfied (beyond making an educational guess) that the Iranian nuclear arms program has been sufficiently degraded than I would a bunch of dingbat journalists that most often have no clue about anything to do with military, intelligence, nuclear engineering, etc. Hell, I am a dingbat civilian with no real expertise in these subjects and I can see the cluelessness of these reporters.

When you're calling Bloomberg "dingbat journalists"......well, that says enough.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Why wouldn't the Iranians simply redoible their effort and try to push from 60% to weapon breakout? Doing so even further underground where the bunker busters can't reach? Even if it takes another decade to do so. And if Israel has infiltrated the Iranian nuclear security apparatus, then it needs to be purged of those unloyal or any technical vulnerabilities. Isn't that the lesson that is taught here?

If I were leading Iran there are only 2 ways that lead to my country not getting worked over like this. 1) drop the nuke program, reduce spend on defense, invest in their economy after sanctions are lifted. 2) Double down and try to produce a nuclear weapon using the Uranium preserved.

I would choose #1, but why do we think the religious fanatics in Iran will not choose #2?

The bolded is the million dollar question. I think they would choose #2 but that's just speculation.

Just throwing out a hypothetical here....

We live in an alternate universe where there is no country of 50 united states surrounded by vast oceans on either side. We are some form of a much smaller collective of North American nation states.

The largely Mormon country Deseret has just had it's nuclear facilities buried deep in the Rocky Mountains hit by the always aggressive Canada, a country seemingly always dropping munitions somewhere.

You're just gonna roll over and say "Welp, nothing we can do about that illegal strike challenging our sovereignty. Guess we have to throw out 70 years of atomic research and just comply, right? Whaddayagonnado."

Listen, Iran is a rogue state, and I'm not a fan of religious extremists in general. But it doesn't take too many calories to look at this from another perspective. Just sayin'....

Not only that, but the reality is the US and the west has never acted in good faith with them so they have zero reason to trust we will now. It's the same reason Ukraine won't trust the proposed US peace deal that is basically the same as the last 2 we backed out of a few years later.

I'm pro American on this and get that in many cases we've done what had to be done, but the reality is the west (England/US/Israel) has consistently been the 1st aggressor in this conflict, and has consistently renegged on peace treaties, nuclear deals, and if we go back far enough even alliances.

From their perspective no treaty or talks are done in good faith. The absolute only way out for them is to get nukes and they know that as much as we do, and the only plausible way they will move forward is to negotiate on the surface and try to build nukes in the background as many times as it takes and we should (and probably do) operate under that assumption.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

the walk back on the level of destruction/success is always interesting. every time absolutes are used, i always wait for the dust to settle. in this case, literally. iran isn't going to just capitulate. it's just not in their DNA

 

[Chadstroma]

General war engagement question - and It may have been discussed here or in some of the links but when Israel or the US fly planes over Syria, Jordan or wherever do they request airspace access?

Typically yes if friendly and likely sympathetic to the cause. There are occasions that they do not- for example, the Bin Laden raid which at the time Pakistan was 'an ally' but really was not and we went in anyways. It really depends on a lot of factors.

I believe Iraq (IIRC) has filed a formal grievance to the UN for Israel violating it's airspace. Syria is pretty much a non-question- Israel and the US fly in and out all day long without asking for permission. A country like Jordan though, would get the courtesy of being asked and likely respected if the answer was no.

 

[Chadstroma]

We KNOW all their sites outside of Fordow have been wiped off the earth.

No, we don't.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/06/23/us-iran-nuclear-bomb-damage-assessment/

Iran has dozens of sites associated with its nuclear program, which it has insisted is only for peaceful and civilian activities such as power generation and research. The day before Israel started its attacks this month, the government in Tehran said it had constructed a new facility outside Natanz that could be used to build new centrifuges. That site is even deeper underground than the enrichment facility at Fordow, built a few hundred feet into a mountain and thought to be the limit of what U.S. “bunker buster” bombs could reach. “The point is they have material that they have made at other facilities,” Lewis said in an interview. “We don’t know what became of that.” Lewis and others suggested that the United States was aware of the limitations of a military attack on the widespread Iranian nuclear program and was more interested in showing Tehran that Washington was prepared to use force to stop it. “It is a loss for the Iranians,” Lewis said of the destruction at Fordow, Isfahan and Natanz, “but it is not anything like the scale of the attack you would mount if the goal was really to eliminate the program.This problem has delayed them, and undoubtedly there must be things that have been destroyed that they now have to reconstitute,” he said, but the rebuilding could probably be done in no more than a year.

There is even reporting about how the US/Israel purposely avoided the reactors at Isfahan. They are still in tact: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...ite-images-suggest-us-avoided-iran-s-reactors

Yes, those are research reactors. Also not targeted was the operational nuclear power plant in Bushehr. These are actual civilian use reactors that are operational. Attacking them would have a high risk of radiational leakage. Further, they are not directly applicable to military usage.

Mossad has infiltrated the Iranian regime to a high degree. I would put my money on them and Israel being satisfied (beyond making an educational guess) that the Iranian nuclear arms program has been sufficiently degraded than I would a bunch of dingbat journalists that most often have no clue about anything to do with military, intelligence, nuclear engineering, etc. Hell, I am a dingbat civilian with no real expertise in these subjects and I can see the cluelessness of these reporters.

When you're calling Bloomberg "dingbat journalists"......well, that says enough.

99% of journalists fall in that IMO regardless of who they work for.

Have you ever read an article of something you were a subject matter expert on? I have never read anything that I was and thought- they nailed it 100%. And I am not even getting into bias and agenda 'reporting'. US news media is absolute trash.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

We KNOW all their sites outside of Fordow have been wiped off the earth.

No, we don't.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/06/23/us-iran-nuclear-bomb-damage-assessment/

Iran has dozens of sites associated with its nuclear program, which it has insisted is only for peaceful and civilian activities such as power generation and research. The day before Israel started its attacks this month, the government in Tehran said it had constructed a new facility outside Natanz that could be used to build new centrifuges. That site is even deeper underground than the enrichment facility at Fordow, built a few hundred feet into a mountain and thought to be the limit of what U.S. “bunker buster” bombs could reach. “The point is they have material that they have made at other facilities,” Lewis said in an interview. “We don’t know what became of that.” Lewis and others suggested that the United States was aware of the limitations of a military attack on the widespread Iranian nuclear program and was more interested in showing Tehran that Washington was prepared to use force to stop it. “It is a loss for the Iranians,” Lewis said of the destruction at Fordow, Isfahan and Natanz, “but it is not anything like the scale of the attack you would mount if the goal was really to eliminate the program.This problem has delayed them, and undoubtedly there must be things that have been destroyed that they now have to reconstitute,” he said, but the rebuilding could probably be done in no more than a year.

There is even reporting about how the US/Israel purposely avoided the reactors at Isfahan. They are still in tact: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...ite-images-suggest-us-avoided-iran-s-reactors

Yes, those are research reactors. Also not targeted was the operational nuclear power plant in Bushehr. These are actual civilian use reactors that are operational. Attacking them would have a high risk of radiational leakage. Further, they are not directly applicable to military usage.

Mossad has infiltrated the Iranian regime to a high degree. I would put my money on them and Israel being satisfied (beyond making an educational guess) that the Iranian nuclear arms program has been sufficiently degraded than I would a bunch of dingbat journalists that most often have no clue about anything to do with military, intelligence, nuclear engineering, etc. Hell, I am a dingbat civilian with no real expertise in these subjects and I can see the cluelessness of these reporters.

When you're calling Bloomberg "dingbat journalists"......well, that says enough.

99% of journalists fall in that IMO regardless of who they work for.

Have you ever read an article of something you were a subject matter expert on? I have never read anything that I was and thought- they nailed it 100%. And I am not even getting into bias and agenda 'reporting'. US news media is absolute trash.

interesting take. serious question, where do you source information from then?

 

[Osaurus]

 

[Chadstroma]

99% of journalists fall in that IMO regardless of who they work for.

Have you ever read an article of something you were a subject matter expert on? I have never read anything that I was and thought- they nailed it 100%. And I am not even getting into bias and agenda 'reporting'. US news media is absolute trash.

interesting take. serious question, where do you source information from then?

I typically do not watch tv news at all anymore. I went from watching Headline News and CNN pretty regularly, then a bit of Fox, to really only BBC, PBS Newsnight, Frontline and 60 Minutes before giving those up as waste of time. I do not watch anything regularly anymore. The only thing I watch semi-regularly is CNBC but that more about what is going on market wise and if I want to get more direct info on it. If something is happening big and want info (like the US bombing Iran) then I will throw on Fox or BBC but really have been migrating to Youtube as you can find real good live casts giving way better info than the crap on tv. As far as taking in information, I will read whatever off the internet in different feeds. I usually get a sense of how crappy it is or not pretty early and move on or read it through. I really do not have any particular source now other than the internet. I still read from the 99% of crap journalists but with the active knowledge that they are crap and usually have no clue what they are reporting on and for the few that do, usually they have bias and agendas that you have to read with that in mind.

 

[thecatch]

General war engagement question - and It may have been discussed here or in some of the links but when Israel or the US fly planes over Syria, Jordan or wherever do they request airspace access?

Typically yes if friendly and likely sympathetic to the cause. There are occasions that they do not- for example, the Bin Laden raid which at the time Pakistan was 'an ally' but really was not and we went in anyways. It really depends on a lot of factors.

I believe Iraq (IIRC) has filed a formal grievance to the UN for Israel violating it's airspace. Syria is pretty much a non-question- Israel and the US fly in and out all day long without asking for permission. A country like Jordan though, would get the courtesy of being asked and likely respected if the answer was no.

I just listened to a podcast the other day reporting that Turkey has pressured the Syrian government, over which it apparently has a ton of influence, to let Israel use its airspace.

 

[thecatch]

Why wouldn't the Iranians simply redoible their effort and try to push from 60% to weapon breakout? Doing so even further underground where the bunker busters can't reach? Even if it takes another decade to do so. And if Israel has infiltrated the Iranian nuclear security apparatus, then it needs to be purged of those unloyal or any technical vulnerabilities. Isn't that the lesson that is taught here?

If I were leading Iran there are only 2 ways that lead to my country not getting worked over like this. 1) drop the nuke program, reduce spend on defense, invest in their economy after sanctions are lifted. 2) Double down and try to produce a nuclear weapon using the Uranium preserved.

I would choose #1, but why do we think the religious fanatics in Iran will not choose #2?

If they choose #2, we'll just need to keep repeating this cycle periodically if we want to stop them from getting a bomb. Which I think is a worthwhile endeavor at least as long as this regime is in charge.

 

[fatness]

Ceasefire isn't hasn't held so far. Both sides have been violating it.
Ceasefire, strikes and fury from Trump: chaotic 24 hours in Israel-Iran war

At about 7am UK time, Israel issued a statement agreeing to the ceasefire, reserving the right to respond “forcefully” to any breaches by Iran. Despite this, there were reports of Israeli strikes killing nine people in the northern Iranian province of Gilan early on Tuesday morning local time, and five people killed in an Iranian strike on Beersheba in Israel. And Israel’s military soon said it had detected another barrage of Iranian missiles. At about 9am UK time, the Israeli defence minister, Israel Katz, said: “In light of Iran’s blatant violation of the ceasefire declared by the President of the United States – through the launch of missiles toward Israel – and in accordance with the Israeli government’s policy to respond forcefully to any breach, I have instructed the IDF … to continue high-intensity operations targeting regime assets and terror infrastructure in Tehran.” Iran denied firing missiles after the ceasefire had begun, and accused Israel of the same sort of breach.

At this point, at about 7am Washington time, Trump returned to the fray, telling reporters as he prepared to board a helicopter to head to the Nato summit in the Netherlands:

"[Iran] violated it, but Israel violated it too. Israel, as soon as we made the deal, they came out and they dropped a load of bombs, the likes of which I’ve never seen before, the biggest load that we’ve seen. I’m not happy with Israel … I’m not happy with Iran either. But I’m really unhappy if Israel’s going out this morning because of one rocket that didn’t land, that was shot perhaps by mistake … You know what, we basically have two countries that have been fighting so long and so hard that they don’t know what the **** they’re doing."

He expanded on the point on social media, posting: “ISRAEL. DO NOT DROP THOSE BOMBS. IF YOU DO IT IS A MAJOR VIOLATION. BRING YOUR PILOTS HOME, NOW!”

Following reports that he had immediately spoken to Benjamin Netanyahu on the phone, he added: “ISRAEL is not going to attack Iran … Nobody will be hurt, the Ceasefire is in effect!” But the well-informed Axios reporter Barak Ravid posted that Netanyahu had refused to completely cancel the planned strikes.

 

[fatness]

China says supports Iran in achieving a 'genuine ceasefire'

China’s foreign minister Wang Yi said on Tuesday that Beijing supports Iran in achieving a “genuine ceasefire”. In a phone call with his Iranian counterpart Abbas Araghchi, Wang said: “China supports Iran in safeguarding its national sovereignty and security, and, on that basis, achieving a genuine ceasefire so that people can return to normal life.”

 

[Desert_Power]

We KNOW all their sites outside of Fordow have been wiped off the earth.

No, we don't.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/06/23/us-iran-nuclear-bomb-damage-assessment/

Iran has dozens of sites associated with its nuclear program, which it has insisted is only for peaceful and civilian activities such as power generation and research. The day before Israel started its attacks this month, the government in Tehran said it had constructed a new facility outside Natanz that could be used to build new centrifuges. That site is even deeper underground than the enrichment facility at Fordow, built a few hundred feet into a mountain and thought to be the limit of what U.S. “bunker buster” bombs could reach. “The point is they have material that they have made at other facilities,” Lewis said in an interview. “We don’t know what became of that.” Lewis and others suggested that the United States was aware of the limitations of a military attack on the widespread Iranian nuclear program and was more interested in showing Tehran that Washington was prepared to use force to stop it. “It is a loss for the Iranians,” Lewis said of the destruction at Fordow, Isfahan and Natanz, “but it is not anything like the scale of the attack you would mount if the goal was really to eliminate the program.This problem has delayed them, and undoubtedly there must be things that have been destroyed that they now have to reconstitute,” he said, but the rebuilding could probably be done in no more than a year.

There is even reporting about how the US/Israel purposely avoided the reactors at Isfahan. They are still in tact: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...ite-images-suggest-us-avoided-iran-s-reactors

Yes, those are research reactors. Also not targeted was the operational nuclear power plant in Bushehr. These are actual civilian use reactors that are operational. Attacking them would have a high risk of radiational leakage. Further, they are not directly applicable to military usage.

Mossad has infiltrated the Iranian regime to a high degree. I would put my money on them and Israel being satisfied (beyond making an educational guess) that the Iranian nuclear arms program has been sufficiently degraded than I would a bunch of dingbat journalists that most often have no clue about anything to do with military, intelligence, nuclear engineering, etc. Hell, I am a dingbat civilian with no real expertise in these subjects and I can see the cluelessness of these reporters.

When you're calling Bloomberg "dingbat journalists"......well, that says enough.

99% of journalists fall in that IMO regardless of who they work for.

Have you ever read an article of something you were a subject matter expert on? I have never read anything that I was and thought- they nailed it 100%. And I am not even getting into bias and agenda 'reporting'. US news media is absolute trash.

I get where you're coming from with the bolded. Can be really frustrating.

 

[Chadstroma]

General war engagement question - and It may have been discussed here or in some of the links but when Israel or the US fly planes over Syria, Jordan or wherever do they request airspace access?

Typically yes if friendly and likely sympathetic to the cause. There are occasions that they do not- for example, the Bin Laden raid which at the time Pakistan was 'an ally' but really was not and we went in anyways. It really depends on a lot of factors.

I believe Iraq (IIRC) has filed a formal grievance to the UN for Israel violating it's airspace. Syria is pretty much a non-question- Israel and the US fly in and out all day long without asking for permission. A country like Jordan though, would get the courtesy of being asked and likely respected if the answer was no.

I just listened to a podcast the other day reporting that Turkey has pressured the Syrian government, over which it apparently has a ton of influence, to let Israel use its airspace.

I wouldn't be surprised but Israel wouldn't care if they did or did not have approval. I don't think the Syrians have anything to threaten anything flying right now. Turkey is the major influence over Syria now after the Assad fall (which under Assad the major influence was Russia and Iran).

 

[Chadstroma]

Have you ever read an article of something you were a subject matter expert on? I have never read anything that I was and thought- they nailed it 100%. And I am not even getting into bias and agenda 'reporting'. US news media is absolute trash.

I get where you're coming from with the bolded. Can be really frustrating.

Yea... any time I have had intimate first hand knowledge of something or would be a subject matter expert (not this stuff, I am a armchair general civilian wannabe, though I spend a ton of time and effort in understanding more so than your average bear) the best I hope for is "well, that wasn't too bad" and I can not recall a time of being surprised with them being over that standard and often it is much far below that. I have very little confidence in media in general and basically zero confidence in US media- whatever the shade, color or size of their stripes.

 

[thecatch]

General war engagement question - and It may have been discussed here or in some of the links but when Israel or the US fly planes over Syria, Jordan or wherever do they request airspace access?

Typically yes if friendly and likely sympathetic to the cause. There are occasions that they do not- for example, the Bin Laden raid which at the time Pakistan was 'an ally' but really was not and we went in anyways. It really depends on a lot of factors.

I believe Iraq (IIRC) has filed a formal grievance to the UN for Israel violating it's airspace. Syria is pretty much a non-question- Israel and the US fly in and out all day long without asking for permission. A country like Jordan though, would get the courtesy of being asked and likely respected if the answer was no.

I just listened to a podcast the other day reporting that Turkey has pressured the Syrian government, over which it apparently has a ton of influence, to let Israel use its airspace.

I wouldn't be surprised but Israel wouldn't care if they did or did not have approval. I don't think the Syrians have anything to threaten anything flying right now. Turkey is the major influence over Syria now after the Assad fall (which under Assad the major influence was Russia and Iran).

The fact that Syria can't force Israel to use its airspace on Syria's terms is a different question than whether the general procedure is to ask permission to use airspace. Seems like Israel did so or at least communicated with Syria at some level about it.

 

[fatness]

The US military strikes on three of Iran’s nuclear facilities last weekend did not destroy the core components of the country’s nuclear program and likely only set it back by months, according to an early US intelligence assessment that was described by three people briefed on it.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/06/24/politics/intel-assessment-us-strikes-iran-nuclear-sites

 

[BLOCKED_PUNT]

Which side?
Plenty of evidence to say the 2018 break of the agreement led to this unnecessary engagement

And why would Iran agree to any deal? Last one got torn up in front of their face.

I'm no geopolitical genius and I could certainly be misunderstanding or this was a not very good article but I was going by this one,

From what I'm understanding some Euro countries tried to talk to them in 2003. In October of that year they (Iran) suspended the program assumably as a show of good faith. Then in 2006 they restarted. I am counting this as a renege though you could argue that they really didn't since there was no deal in place.

Then in 2018 when Trump backed out the article says

2018 — Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says Israel obtained tens of thousands of pages of data showing Iran covered up its nuclear program before signing a deal with world powers in 2015. An ex-Mossad chief confirms the information was obtained by more than a dozen non-Israeli agents from safes in Tehran in 2018. President Donald Trump unilaterally withdraws from Iran’s nuclear deal with world powers.

If true then I think that it was Iran that's at fault here. Though I read the article that that article links to and it makes it sound like old docs so maybe it's just US and Israel really not wanting Iran having any nuclear capabilities/hating their goverment. We also bombed a bunch of **** so how could we bomb a bunch of **** if Iran wasn't working on a program? Even if the U.S. backed out, doesn't that mean Iran still has deals with other countries?

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Have you ever read an article of something you were a subject matter expert on? I have never read anything that I was and thought- they nailed it 100%. And I am not even getting into bias and agenda 'reporting'. US news media is absolute trash.

I get where you're coming from with the bolded. Can be really frustrating.

Yea... any time I have had intimate first hand knowledge of something or would be a subject matter expert (not this stuff, I am a armchair general civilian wannabe, though I spend a ton of time and effort in understanding more so than your average bear) the best I hope for is "well, that wasn't too bad" and I can not recall a time of being surprised with them being over that standard and often it is much far below that. I have very little confidence in media in general and basically zero confidence in US media- whatever the shade, color or size of their stripes.

But then the flipside of that is have you ever listed to a popular podcast about that same subject matter?

Because that's where the problem lies right now. People have (probably rightly) criticized media for only getting it 80% right or having some level of bias, and instead flocked to sources that only get it 5% right, frankly don't even put in the effort to be more than surface level idiots about the topic, and develop their reporting/discussion of it 100% with the intent to drive people towards their extreme bias using soundbites and logical fallicies, which is often motivated monetarily or otherwise.

My wife, as an OB/GYN who served in a Covid ER during the early days of that, has had to deal with that twice lately. And while she will surely can find plenty of faults in traditional media's reporting of those things, the "alternative sources" are 1000x worse, not better. And if anything, only make the problem worse overal because many of these traditional sources are still for profit companies and to keep the lights on they've more and more had to revert to implementing some of those similar tactics to get eye balls. Because people as a whole are much more likely to listen to some blabbermouthed moron spout conspiratorial logical fallacies that make sense in their little pea brains than they are to read a real piece of investigative journalism, which is still out there plenty but typically ignored.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

When is Congress to be briefed on this? We'll know soon from "sources in the room" the realities of the bombings. My personal guess is that those sites are completely nonfunctional, but that the important pieces are still in tact or we aren't sure about the important pieces.

 

[Dezbelief]

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/06/24/israel-iran-ceasefire-live-updates-trump.html

IAEA says Iran nuclear sites show 'extensive damage' and some 'localized' radioactive leaks

Several of the Iranian nuclear sites struck by Israeli and U.S. missiles have sustained "extensive damage" to their uranium conversion and enrichment facilities, the head of the International Atomic Energy Agency says.

"Our assessment is that there has been some localized radioactive as well as chemical release inside the affected facilities that contained nuclear material – mainly uranium enriched to varying degrees," IAEA Director General Rafael Grossi said in a press release.

Grossi said that "there has been no report of increased off-site radiation levels" or radiological impact in neighboring countries. And "crucially in terms of nuclear safety, Iran's research and power reactors were not targeted," he added.

U.S. strikes at Iran's Natanz nuclear site created two impact holes above the subterranean halls that were used for enrichment, the IAEA release said. "Based on its knowledge of what these halls contained, the IAEA assesses that this strike may have caused localized contamination and chemical hazards," the agency said.

 

[Chadstroma]

But then the flipside of that is have you ever listed to a popular podcast about that same subject matter?

Because that's where the problem lies right now. People have (probably rightly) criticized media for only getting it 80% right or having some level of bias, and instead flocked to sources that only get it 5% right, frankly don't even put in the effort to be more than surface level idiots about the topic, and develop their reporting/discussion of it 100% with the intent to drive people towards their extreme bias using soundbites and logical fallicies, which is often motivated monetarily or otherwise.

My wife, as an OB/GYN who served in a Covid ER during the early days of that, has had to deal with that twice lately. And while she will surely can find plenty of faults in traditional media's reporting of those things, the "alternative sources" are 1000x worse, not better. And if anything, only make the problem worse overal because many of these traditional sources are still for profit companies and to keep the lights on they've more and more had to revert to implementing some of those similar tactics to get eye balls. Because people as a whole are much more likely to listen to some blabbermouthed moron spout conspiratorial logical fallacies that make sense in their little pea brains than they are to read a real piece of investigative journalism, which is still out there plenty but typically ignored.

I am not a huge podcast guy. I started a couple of podcasts in the past about stuff that I would be a subject matter expert about and fell asleep or otherwise stopped listening out of boredom. The only podcast I have listened to and kept my interest and I go back to is the Shawn Ryan Show. It is hard for me to listen to that as I really need to be driving a decent distance (how I first started on it with a marathon sessions driving from Chicago to Atlanta and back for the NCAA football championship) or later at night after my kids are alseep, go down and put on NCAA 25 and play with it on while doing some laundry but I am too tired to do that recently as my night owl times have shifted to morning to get the Daddy Taxi up and running.

I have been migrating more and more to Youtube, which largely was due to me trying to watch Shawn Ryan Show there rather than listen. I mostly watch three things on Youtube Shawn Ryan/Task and Purpose and similar which is military themed, football stuff- Raiders and Notre Dame mostly or some tutorials and basketball coaching. None of which I would say I am a subject matter expert in.

If I were to watch a Youtube on something I was a subject matter expert on it most likely would be from someone I personally know and know that they know what they are talking about and respect.

US news media is so badly incompetent, biased & partisan, bought and paid for, and sensationalized- I just can not stomach any of it anymore. I don't trust any of it at all. This was an evolution as well. From childhood, I consumed a ton of news daily at an odd rate for a kid my age. From 10 on through my 20's I basically watched either ESPN, History Channel or Headline News/CNN. Over and over and over US news media has proven itself worthless.

I consume it as I described above but with a lense of trying to shift out the crap which is nearly impossible but if you get enough different sources you can usually put together a decent picture.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

any knob can have a podcast or a youtube channel. i take them all with a GIANT grain of salt.

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

Which side?
Plenty of evidence to say the 2018 break of the agreement led to this unnecessary engagement

And why would Iran agree to any deal? Last one got torn up in front of their face.

I'm no geopolitical genius and I could certainly be misunderstanding or this was a not very good article but I was going by this one,

From what I'm understanding some Euro countries tried to talk to them in 2003. In October of that year they (Iran) suspended the program assumably as a show of good faith. Then in 2006 they restarted. I am counting this as a renege though you could argue that they really didn't since there was no deal in place.

Then in 2018 when Trump backed out the article says

2018 — Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says Israel obtained tens of thousands of pages of data showing Iran covered up its nuclear program before signing a deal with world powers in 2015. An ex-Mossad chief confirms the information was obtained by more than a dozen non-Israeli agents from safes in Tehran in 2018. President Donald Trump unilaterally withdraws from Iran’s nuclear deal with world powers.

If true then I think that it was Iran that's at fault here. Though I read the article that that article links to and it makes it sound like old docs so maybe it's just US and Israel really not wanting Iran having any nuclear capabilities/hating their goverment. We also bombed a bunch of **** so how could we bomb a bunch of **** if Iran wasn't working on a program? Even if the U.S. backed out, doesn't that mean Iran still has deals with other countries?

I don’t think there’s any doubt that Iran have been working around their restrictions.
They agreed to very strict terms from 2015 to 2018, including free reign for monitor them

What Is the Iran Nuclear Deal?

Diplomacy to revive this arms control agreement has faced multiple stumbling blocks, including Iran’s nuclear advances and its links to conflicts in the Gaza Strip and Ukraine.

www.cfr.org

What did Iran agree to?​

Nuclear restrictions. Iran agreed not to produce either the highly enriched uranium or the plutonium that could be used in a nuclear weapon. It also took steps to ensure that its Fordow, Natanz, and Arak facilities pursued only civilian work, including medical and industrial research.

The accord limited the numbers and types of centrifuges Iran can operate, the level of its enrichment, as well as the size of its stockpile of enriched uranium. (Mined uranium has less than 1 percent of the uranium-235 isotope used in fission reactions, and centrifuges increase that isotope’s concentration. Uranium enriched to 5 percent is used in nuclear power plants, and at 20 percent it can be used in research reactors or for medical purposes. High-enriched uranium, at some 90 percent, is used in nuclear weapons.)

Monitoring and verification. Iran agreed to eventually implement a protocol that would allow inspectors from the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), the United Nations’ nuclear watchdog, unfettered access to its nuclear facilities and potentially to undeclared sites. Inspections are intended to guard against the possibility that Iran develops nuclear arms in secret, as it has allegedly attempted before. The IAEA has issued quarterly reports to its board of governors and the UN Security Council on Iran’s implementation of its nuclear commitments.

A body known as the Joint Commission, which includes representatives of all the negotiating parties, monitors implementation of the agreement and resolves any disputes that arise. A majority vote by its members can gain IAEA inspectors access to suspicious, undeclared sites. The body also oversees the transfer of nuclear-related or dual-use materials.

Rather than a new deal, editing the old deal or having something in its place, the US withdrew totally in 2018.
The US could have worked with the other signatories to “fix” anything that didnt work or needed updated. By withdrawing it blew up the whole agreement. Basically leaving Iran to do as they saw fit. Once one link of a chain is broken, the chain doesnt work.

Plenty of fault to be spread around ultimately. Iran acted in bad faith after 2018. The US just closed its eyes after 2018 and Israel, despite having their own nuclear program have cried wolf long enough about the threat from Iran.
It’s long been speculated that Netanyahu has extended the Gaza conflict, Hamas, Hezbollah etc and now Iran to a) avoid an election and b) to avoid prison for numerous corruption charges. He played the only hand he had. That may be a touch cynical and not a take i am 100% on board with, but it’s not an absurd position.

War is Netanyahu’s only option – and the carnage won’t stop until he’s gone

Analysis: The continuation of war enables his political survival against the will of the majority of Israelis

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[FarFromHome]

any knob can have a podcast or a youtube channel. i take them all with a GIANT grain of salt.

Yep. This site is basically like a text version podcast.

 

[McBokonon]

any knob can have a podcast or a youtube channel. i take them all with a GIANT grain of salt.

Yep. This site is basically like a text version podcast.

I'm going to respond to this, but I first I want everyone reading this to go ahead and SMASH that like button under this message. And please subscribe to my posts so you'll always know when McB is dropping new McTruthBombs on your head. It'll really help a lot, thank you. This message reply is also brought to you by BetterHelp. Have you been feeling McBlue? Try BetterHelp.

 

[FarFromHome]

any knob can have a podcast or a youtube channel. i take them all with a GIANT grain of salt.

Yep. This site is basically like a text version podcast.

I'm going to respond to this, but I first I want everyone reading this to go ahead and SMASH that like button under this message. And please subscribe to my posts so you'll always know when McB is dropping new McTruthBombs on your head. It'll really help a lot, thank you. This message reply is also brought to you by BetterHelp. Have you been feeling McBlue? Try BetterHelp.

Exactly. Ha ha

 

[Chadstroma]

any knob can have a podcast or a youtube channel. i take them all with a GIANT grain of salt.

Yep. This site is basically like a text version podcast.

We are all old G's that lived lives before podcasts and YouTube.