Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
After watching that workout not so sure, looked fat and sluggish.
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Jalen Carter - Not as good as Kobie Turner but better than Kobe Bryant at talking trash (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Terpman22
- Start date
After watching that workout not so sure, looked fat and sluggish.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I think he slips out of the top 5. Not out of the top 8. Some teams will be concerned about character/maturity.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Reminds me a little of the Micah Parsons situation a couple seasons ago. Someone could get a bargain, but they could also get a problem. It worked out for Dallas, but this is a different player.
massraider
Footballguy
I don’t know how far he can slip. Take out the QBs, consensus is there are TWO blue chip players. And he plays a position where you have entire years with no good ones in the draft. DT is sooooo scarce. If he does slip to 10-ish or further, you have to assume Georgia coaches didn’t sign off on him.
Chaka
Footballguy
Hard to see Seattle or Detroit pass on him.
Although if he gets to the Raiders, even though they need him desperately, maybe the Henry Ruggs factor forces them to pass.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
I think he was off their board but all those things cumulatively make it an easy justification when they don’t take him.
That said, they had at least the D line coach there today (probably others as well.)
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Very easy to see the Lions pass on him. I would actually be shocked if they took Carter at this point.
massraider
Footballguy
Or just the Vegas factor. I would specifically target gym rats, home bodies. This is Vegas. Can be The Hangover every weekend
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Also heard he cramped up. Speculating here, but I imagine if someone was even tangentially involved in an incident that saw two perish, binge eating would be among the options one might reasonably choose. Dude had a bad day, he's having a terrible month. There's also hours and hours of tape demonstrating uncommon traits. Will be a discount pick for someone. Randy Moss had a bazillion red flags from college and still went #21. Somebody will take a chance on him.
Before any of this stuff we heard chatter about character concerns and his work ethic - it's not nothing. But uber talented guys can use stuff like getting passed over by X number of teams to fuel themselves. Hope he gets his head space squared away and works his butt off this summer, he has special talent.
Not a fit for my team's culture but he'll be a star somewhere unless he goes completely off the deep end.
Chaka
Footballguy
Because of the accusations? Charges have been dropped, haven't they? why would the Lions pass on a quality player at a position of need?
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Because he came in overweight at his pro day and reports were that he was so gassed he couldn’t finish drills, looked sloppy, etc. That just adds to the character concern issues that have been floating around and the involvement in the accident (even if he wasn’t charged).
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
He looked both uncoordinated and unprepared.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Also not sure charges were actually dropped
Jalen Carter has entered a deal with Athens-Clarke County solicitors, per his lawyer. Carter has pled no contest and will receive 12 months probation, pay a $1,000 fine, perform 80 hours community service and finish a driving course.
Jalen Carter has entered a deal with Athens-Clarke County solicitors, per his lawyer. Carter has pled no contest and will receive 12 months probation, pay a $1,000 fine, perform 80 hours community service and finish a driving course.
massraider
Footballguy
Statement from his attorney, contradicting this entire 'left the scene' story.
massraider
Footballguy
A police spokesman said on March 1 that Carter was interviewed “on the scene.”
theathletic.com
Ex-Georgia DT Jalen Carter will not face jail time
Carter pleaded no contest to two misdemeanor charges of racing and reckless driving.
theathletic.com
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
massraider
Footballguy
C'mmon guy.
Never left the scene without being told he could leave, and he came back to give a statement.
I'm so disappointed in you, Bobby.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Oh you’re disappointed in me. FM what am I gonna do now?
Let’s see…wanna tell me who told Jalen to leave the scene? Because it wasn’t the cops.
Next you’ll tell me he’s a freaking ace bc he returned to the scene.
Sheriff sees UGA players keep pulling up.
“How’d you guys know there was an accident?”
Got a text
“From who?”
Jalen Carter
“Ask him to come back.”
Which he did. Two hours later.
My brother, practice a little discernment next time. When the source is the defendants lawyer, go back and see if it tracks with the original story: Ya know, the AJC stories that used the police reports & eyewitness as their sources.
massraider
Footballguy
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BobbyLayne
Footballguy
It’s Georgia, man. SEC rules.
Have to think State boys would have gone a different direction than the locals. This got buried for 6 weeks bc they wrote it up as a single car accident.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Lance Zierlein
@LanceZierlein
These are not Ws being posted. The weight is a big concern considering this is the most important job interview of your life. Testing was expected to be a positive and now he's not testing. The slide could be very real for Carter.
Jim Nagy@JimNagy_SB
SOURCE: Georgia DT Jalen Carter will only do position drills at today’s pro-day. No 40 or other testing. Carter weighed in at 323 pounds, up 9 lbs from Combine.
Benjamin Gehring@BenjaminGehring
I almost feel like Todd McShay is vindicated a bit on his reporting.
The kid has two speeding incidents, one involving fatalities, ran from the scene, weight ballooning, not prepared for his pro day. Not a great look for Jalen Carter.
Lance Zierlein@LanceZierlein
What isn't being blown out of proportion are his extended issues with poor decision-making and reckless behavior not to mention some of the football character issues behind the scenes. These are real.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
How do you show up to your pro day like that? One of the bigger red flags I have seen, ever.
Maybe because it's not the most important thing in his life right now. He's worried about going to jail.
However, despite that, he did show up.
I hope the Lions don't pass on him at 6.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
All the more reason to not show up that way.
Jail or no jail, worrying or no worrying, you can still work out.
Chaka
Footballguy
This was from a tweet you posted. I have heard this about Carter but does anyone have any kind of details about these "issues"?
It feels like NFL scout/GM smokescreen leaks in an attempt to depress the value of a player they hope drops to them. Would anyone be shocked if the source of these leaks turned out to be Dave Ziegler or Brad Holmes?
Chaka
Footballguy
Like what?
I don't know about you but my weight can fluctuate 5lbs between morning and evening of any given day.
9lbs from a guy like Carter is probably means he missed his morning BM (
).
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
The 'whispers' started long before lying season with Carter from Todd McShay last fall when he first reported this and people jumped McShay. A few months later when Carer was preparing for the draft, stories emerged showing what a great guy Jalen was and that McShay should be discredited, i.e., 'his/Jalen's people' doing damage control.
---------------------------
NFL Rookie Watch
@NFLRookieWatxh
A couple months ago, ESPN’s Todd McShay claimed Jalen Carter had “character issues” that could affect his stock.
Yesterday, it was revealed that this past season, Carter paid for his teammate Weston Wallace’s meals with his own scholarship money.
Wallace is a walk-on so he doesn’t eat for free like the rest of the team. Carter heard about this and didn’t want to let that happen, so he contributed his own funds to feed his teammate everyday.
What a GUY
----------------
THEN the story hit, and people went back to apologize to Todd McShay since he was the first to mention 'possible' character concerns with Jalen.
----------------
Christopher Carter
@CarterCritiques
I think apologies are owed to Todd McShay.
=============
ProFootballTalk
@ProFootballTalk
Jalen Carter was reportedly present at the crash that killed a teammate and a Georgia football staffer in January, drove off, and misled police about it when questioned.
---------------------------------------
If someone reports 'specifics' that can be disputed/refuted it could lead to legal issues so if you only accept 'specific' information you won't get it at this time.
Chaka
Footballguy
We all know about the crash and it's a huge red flag. No need to relitigate that here.The 'whispers' started long before lying season with Carter from Todd McShay last fall when he first reported this and people jumped McShay. A few months later when Carer was preparing for the draft, stories emerged showing what a great guy Jalen was and that McShay should be discredited, i.e., 'his/Jalen's people' doing damage control.
---------------------------
NFL Rookie Watch
@NFLRookieWatxh
A couple months ago, ESPN’s Todd McShay claimed Jalen Carter had “character issues” that could affect his stock.
Yesterday, it was revealed that this past season, Carter paid for his teammate Weston Wallace’s meals with his own scholarship money.
Wallace is a walk-on so he doesn’t eat for free like the rest of the team. Carter heard about this and didn’t want to let that happen, so he contributed his own funds to feed his teammate everyday.
What a GUY
----------------
THEN the story hit, and people went back to apologize to Todd McShay since he was the first to mention 'possible' character concerns with Jalen.
----------------
Christopher Carter
@CarterCritiques
I think apologies are owed to Todd McShay.
=============
ProFootballTalk
@ProFootballTalk
Jalen Carter was reportedly present at the crash that killed a teammate and a Georgia football staffer in January, drove off, and misled police about it when questioned.
---------------------------------------
If someone reports 'specifics' that can be disputed/refuted it could lead to legal issues so if you only accept 'specific' information you won't get it at this time.
We're there questions about work ethic, motor, technique? Anything related to team activities?
Anything other than buying a teammate food with scholarship money?
Ilov80s
Footballguy
You aren't an athlete building up to a massive performance that will impact your entire athletic career. Also, the weight is one thing, the being winded and struggling with drills is something else. Plus he has had 2 serious driving incidents in the last 9 months. He got ticketed for going 89 in a 45. He was drag racing in the fatal accident. It all adds up to make me nervous about him. No way to make a definitive judgement since we are so removed from Carter himself but the red flags are obvious.Like what?
I don't know about you but my weight can fluctuate 5lbs between morning and evening of any given day.
9lbs from a guy like Carter is probably means he missed his morning BM (
Max Power
Footballguy
As a Bears fan I'm conflicted on Carter. Two months ago I loved the idea of trading down to 4 and hopefully landing him. Now I think there is potential he slips to 9 and I'm indifferent if the Bears take him or someone else. I feel like Carter is a big risk/reward pick but #9 seems like a slot worthy of taking that swing.
Bears interviewed him the night before the news broke and have brought him back in for an official visit. That at least tells me the Bears are doing their homework on his red flags and he didn't burn any bridges in the process.
Bears interviewed him the night before the news broke and have brought him back in for an official visit. That at least tells me the Bears are doing their homework on his red flags and he didn't burn any bridges in the process.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I feel similarly as a Lions fan. For awhile him dropping to 6 was my pipedream. Now, I am rooting really hard for a team in the top 5 to select him.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
should think about moving up and taking Richardson - or at least feint they want to do that so they can turn the 6th into more draft capital
honestly they can go any direction they want after this FA period, all their major needs are filled, they don't need to reach for anything - let the draft come to them and it probably works out.
but Holmes has moved up for a pick every draft so be ready to be surprised (in a good way) - I trust his talent evaluation. if he decides to move up for a QB, or passes on Carter, I know he will have sound reasoning for whichever direction he takes.
Chaka
Footballguy
I get it, he should have performed better. My position, for a long time has been "You want to know me? Watch the film."You aren't an athlete building up to a massive performance that will impact your entire athletic career. Also, the weight is one thing, the being winded and struggling with drills is something else. Plus he has had 2 serious driving incidents in the last 9 months. He got ticketed for going 89 in a 45. He was drag racing in the fatal accident. It all adds up to make me nervous about him. No way to make a definitive judgement since we are so removed from Carter himself but the red flags are obvious.Like what?
I don't know about you but my weight can fluctuate 5lbs between morning and evening of any given day.
9lbs from a guy like Carter is probably means he missed his morning BM (
His pro day means very little to me.
Obviously the car crash is a major, glaring, nuclear red flag. I'm waiting on the news about him being a bad teammate or a negative influence in the locker room. Or whatever along those lines.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
If you discount character and only look at tape, then here is an evaluation of Jalen using only tape. This story came out in January before the combine.
In my opinion, when a story is 'leaked' at the worst/most opportune time, it is done with purpose.
Always pay attention to 'when' a story comes out and don't get sucked into being manipulated.
-----------------------------
FIRST ROUND MOCK
@firstroundmock
As a former NFL Scout, I have no concerns about Jalen Carter. He’s the best player in this draft. All the rest of this is politics. It’s not a coincidence an arrest warrant is issued minutes before he was scheduled to speak at the Combine
LINK >>> Expect Jalen Carter to be the Best Defensive Tackle in the NFL January 21, 2023
------------------------------
If you have followed the NFL draft for years and years you have heard the top-two reasons why top prospects fail are, injuries and character issues.
- NFL Draft: Why Character Concerns Matter When Considering Elite Prospects
- Does “Character” Really Matter? A Look at the Careers of NFL Draft Picks Experts Warned Us About
In my opinion, when a story is 'leaked' at the worst/most opportune time, it is done with purpose.
Always pay attention to 'when' a story comes out and don't get sucked into being manipulated.
-----------------------------
FIRST ROUND MOCK
@firstroundmock
As a former NFL Scout, I have no concerns about Jalen Carter. He’s the best player in this draft. All the rest of this is politics. It’s not a coincidence an arrest warrant is issued minutes before he was scheduled to speak at the Combine
LINK >>> Expect Jalen Carter to be the Best Defensive Tackle in the NFL January 21, 2023
------------------------------
If you have followed the NFL draft for years and years you have heard the top-two reasons why top prospects fail are, injuries and character issues.
- NFL Draft: Why Character Concerns Matter When Considering Elite Prospects
- Does “Character” Really Matter? A Look at the Careers of NFL Draft Picks Experts Warned Us About
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I get he has a lot going on but being out of shape at the pro day can’t help but concern me. Will he show up out of shape for rookie mini camp? For training camp?
Also it’s not just a fatal crash, it’s the other driving incident that shows this wasn’t a one off incident but a pattern.
I haven’t heard anything from the teammates. Only sort of knock I heard was from a tape evaluator (who admittedly was trying to find some kind of con) who said Carter doesn’t really play a position, he just seems to freestyle every play. He obviously wasn’t sure if that’s what coaches asked or if Carter just refused to do anything else.
joey
Footballguy
I’m with you. Him showing up out of shape at his pro day is an indicator of how he handles adversity.
the **** hits the fan with all of this bad news coming out about him. Does he put his head down and keep working, knowing he has to be ready for his pro day, or does he buckle under the pressure?
I’m not saying it’s FAIR to this kid to say he should act like a machine and don’t let these other things in his life effect his pro day weight and performance, but that’s the world these highly paid pro athletes live in.
as a raiders fan who would’ve been estatic a month ago if you told me Carter would be available at the 7 spot, I’m now having Jamarcus flashbacks hoping we don’t draft a kid who might not give it his all.
Chaka
Footballguy
I understand the concern, not in the weight so much, nine lbs on that frame can literally be water weight. Maybe it's worse than I think and he even heavier, shed a ton of water prior to the weigh in and was gassed due to dehydration. But I'm not sold on that.
Kids, particularly those with his resume should stop having pro-daya altogether. It can only hurt.
If he falls to 7, 6 teams were overthinking, he's easily worth the risk.
joey
Footballguy
Chaka
Footballguy
No doubt but the image of Maxx and the future Aaron Donald lining up together for 5 years makes me tingly.
3 years of dominant college tape. No idea where the "character concerns" come from.... choosing an hour of his life to base it on? You focus there instead of his youth football camps? How he treated others over the years? Not based on his own teammates and coaches?
“You honestly don’t know the guy if you think that. You can ask anybody on the team, whether it’s the O-line that he bullies every day out there … everybody thinks he’s an all-around great guy, and I think he’ll be great for any team that picks him.”
"Legal concerns" ... a misdemeanor ticket?
jabarony
Footballguy
Maybe he showed poorly at his pro day because he was focused on his course work?
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I’ve said here multiple times that there is a lot I don’t and can’t know. I am not interviewing coaches and teammates or having the equivalent of a detective get background on him as teams are. Those that are might feel comfortable with him.
Let’s not downplay the legal situation as just a misdemeanor. He was involved in a high speed drag race that cost people their lives. A few months prior he was ticketed for going 90 in a 40. That’s not fully a reason to take him off the board but it’s a concern. This isn’t “take Jalen Carter or nobody”. It’s take “Jalen Carter or Christian Gonzalez or Peter Skoronski or Tyree Wilson or Will Levis , etc”. These guys all have great tape, teammates who loved them, youth football coaches who would vouch for them, etc. They also managed to stay out of trouble, come into their “job interview” in peak shape, etc. Teams are investing a lot of money and resources into a top 10 pick and there are many awesome options to choose from. So yes, I do think things like being out of shape at a pro day or drag racing will impact the direction teams go.
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BobbyLayne
Footballguy
FWIW Vehicular Manslaughter is a misdemeanor
His legal problems are behind him as double jeopardy is a Constitutional Right under the 5th amendment)
Hopefully he get drafted by a team with a strong culture and veterans who will help him grow personally and professionally
It is a genuine moral dilemma for the Lions because they talk a lot (like. every. single. time.) about character being a huge factor in their evaluation
You literally cannot find an interview with Campbell or Holmes where they don't bring up "it's not just the talent, it has to be the right kind of person, we don't want any floaters"
Kind of makes themselves look like hypocrites if they take that stance for years but then flip and say "except when the talent is too good to ignore"
I think most fans don't care, they just want to win, but it's not nothing for Sheila Hamp
Ultimately if she doesn't want him on the team that's the just the way it will be*
edit *hypothetically; she generally keeps her distance on roster construction and football decisions
His legal problems are behind him as double jeopardy is a Constitutional Right under the 5th amendment)
Hopefully he get drafted by a team with a strong culture and veterans who will help him grow personally and professionally
It is a genuine moral dilemma for the Lions because they talk a lot (like. every. single. time.) about character being a huge factor in their evaluation
You literally cannot find an interview with Campbell or Holmes where they don't bring up "it's not just the talent, it has to be the right kind of person, we don't want any floaters"
Kind of makes themselves look like hypocrites if they take that stance for years but then flip and say "except when the talent is too good to ignore"
I think most fans don't care, they just want to win, but it's not nothing for Sheila Hamp
Ultimately if she doesn't want him on the team that's the just the way it will be*
edit *hypothetically; she generally keeps her distance on roster construction and football decisions
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
From what I've heard Chris Spielman is her go to for advice when it comes down to football decisions like this. If he and the GM and coach want him I think it could happen.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
yeah I just read an article on Spielman, will post in the team thread
I'm not advocating they draft or pass on him if he falls
just pointing out that for that organization it's far from a slam dunk
that said, I trust the Holmes and their process
