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Kobe Bryant dead in helicopter crash - TMZ (2 Viewers)

Smack Tripper said:
I don’t object to her question and I think it was reasonable and appropriate.  She should have defended journalism rather than attacking her own network, she asked the question one way or the other.  And I think it was her own line and not the network as she did ask a followup 
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One question, OK.  Timing still sucked. She dug in, wouldn’t let it go. Almost smug. Lisa owned her and finished it with class. 

 
Mr. Ham said:
I think the people have spoken in terms of how that period of his life should factor into his legacy. But am I the only one that thought it was an interesting interview, and Leslie put those events in context?

I really loved Kobe, but after all he was tried for rape, and settled in a civil suit. I don’t think those events define him, and the overwhelming majority aren’t seeking to do so, but I also think it’s a conversation worth having.
 
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Summer Wheat said:
Great read!  
After the gay slurs, the rape, Kobe matured and had young women of his own and realized what a man and father meant in the life of his female family.

RIP to both.
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These two posts are pretty great I think. I think the people that go into instant defense mode and try to shout people down for discussing everything with Kobe, even the bad, miss out on the fact that Kobe is a great redemption tale. I thought the people that brought it up day one were out of line but after several days, and especially now, his story in its entirety should be free to be discussed.  

 
Vanessa Bryant sues owner of helicopter.

I don't remember who it was, but early on someone mentioned this would probably happen and he was shot down for saying so.  

 
Are you guys questioning my memory?  My old man memory that can literally remember dozens of things I've done and seen in the past several decades.  

 
Watching memorial now. Wow, the speakers at this memorial. Learned more about how Kobe was. Amazing. Vanessa did a great job holding it together. Beautiful speech. 

 
Mr. Ham said:
I think it’s a massive problem in our culture that we like to knock people down from pedestals, and only allow ascension from the depths of humiliation and ruin. There is lacking a more gradual path from mistakes to learning to redemption, that doesn’t require scarlet letters or cancellation.
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Not even slightly true.  I have no idea why you think this.  Confirmation bias, I expect.

 
CGRdrJoe said:
I think if Kobe died alone in a solo accident then saying “I’m glad karma caught up” or whatever else wouldn’t be as bad but there were 8 other victims including children so for people to be celebrating Kobe’s death is to be celebrating the others that died along side him and that is disgusting. People done celebrate that terrorist died in plane crashes on 9/11.
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This comment is old but feel it needs a response. No one was celebrating the death of these innocent people, no one was even celebrating Kobe’s death. I just didn’t feel like he should have been celebrated as if the rape never occurred.
 

I’m glad he did things to better others later in life and maybe I need lessons in forgiveness, but having known those who have lived through a sexual assault, that’s not something I can do right now.  Seeing them scared to leave the house after dark, afraid to go to the grocery store alone, afraid to go from their office to their car, that makes things very real very fast.  Knowing that he got off free from that charge because he was good at basketball and then seeing people idolize him for basketball, it’s very frustrating. 

 
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bigmarc27 said:
This comment is old but feel it needs a response. No one was celebrating the death of these innocent people, no one was even celebrating Kobe’s death. I just didn’t feel like he should have been celebrated as if the rape never occurred.
 

I’m glad he did things to better others later in life and maybe I need lessons in forgiveness, but having known those who have lived through a sexual assault, that’s not something I can do right now.  Seeing them scared to leave the house after dark, afraid to go to the grocery store alone, afraid to go from their office to their car, that makes things very real very fast.  Knowing that he got off free from that charge because he was good at basketball and then seeing people idolize him for basketball, it’s very frustrating. 
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He didn’t get off Scott free. 
He was only accused of rape and many who followed the case closely believe the only reason he was questioned in the first place because he was famous for playing basketball. 
If you’ve paid any attention at all you would see that he was idolized for far more than playing basketball 

Im sorry for whatever happened to your loved ones but unless Kobe Bryant was their attacker he has literally nothing to do with them in any way whatsoever. 

 
fissure man said:
He didn’t get off Scott free. 
He was only accused of rape and many who followed the case closely believe the only reason he was questioned in the first place because he was famous for playing basketball. 
If you’ve paid any attention at all you would see that he was idolized for far more than playing basketball 

Im sorry for whatever happened to your loved ones but unless Kobe Bryant was their attacker he has literally nothing to do with them in any way whatsoever. 
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That is not true. 
 

He did get off Scott free and never spent a day in jail.

He was charged with rape which means they had evidence that he committed the act.  I did follow that case and as I mentioned in an earlier post “The case got dismissed because the girl wouldn’t testify. She was afraid to testify because her name got out and the internet went crazy. Then Kobe “apologized” and in that apology he stated (direct quote, look it up):  “I understand why she feels she didn’t consent.”

 
bigmarc27 said:
Looks like I can stick my head in here again...

The case got dismissed because the girl wouldn’t testify. She was afraid to testify because her name got out and the internet went crazy. Then Kobe “apologized” and in that apology he stated (direct quote, look it up):  “I understand why she feels she didn’t consent.”

I UNDERSTAND WHY SHE FEELS SHE DIDN’T CONSENT?!?!
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Kobe was criticized for his apology at the time, but I thought it is an excellent example of how to apologize in a difficult case like this.  Extremely humble, respectful and honest.  The main rub seems to be the concept that two people can have a sexual encounter, and one leaves thinking it was all completely consensual while the other feels some part of it crossed the line.  For me, based solely on my personal experience, I think this is something that is understandable and completely realistic in the course of human experience.  I have never been a fan of Kobe Bryant, but have total respect for him (or his writer) for this apology.  

"First, I want to apologize directly to the young woman involved in this incident. I want to apologize to her for my behavior that night and for the consequences she has suffered in the past year. Although this year has been incredibly difficult for me personally, I can only imagine the pain she has had to endure. I also want to apologize to her parents and family members, and to my family and friends and supporters, and to the citizens of Eagle, Colo.

"I also want to make it clear that I do not question the motives of this young woman. No money has been paid to this woman. She has agreed that this statement will not be used against me in the civil case. Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did. After months of reviewing discovery, listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter.

"I issue this statement today fully aware that while one part of this case ends today, another remains. I understand that the civil case against me will go forward. That part of this case will be decided by and between the parties directly involved in the incident and will no longer be a financial or emotional drain on the citizens of the state of Colorado."
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As a side note, I don't agree with your statement that the victim "was afraid to testify because her name got out and the internet went crazy."  We don't know that is the case.  Much more likely is that she knew a financial settlement was coming, and decided that was a better path to take than going through a criminal trial.  She had some skeletons in her closet and it would be Kobe's lawyers' duty to put that in the record in his defense.  It would not have been a pleasant experience for her, and certainly could have resulted in an acquittal.

 
bigmarc27 said:
That is not true. 
 

He did get off Scott free and never spent a day in jail.

He was charged with rape which means they had evidence that he committed the act.  I did follow that case and as I mentioned in an earlier post “The case got dismissed because the girl wouldn’t testify. She was afraid to testify because her name got out and the internet went crazy. Then Kobe “apologized” and in that apology he stated (direct quote, look it up):  “I understand why she feels she didn’t consent.”
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I don't think that 100% him saying that means it was. It could have been rough consensual sex. No one knows for sure. The guy is dead. His wife and kids are what matters. Hopefully Vanessa and Natalia aren't reading such posts. It's done. He impacted so many people positively. I'd suggest you watch the memorial. Jordan crying, Vanessa's strength and grace. There is forgiveness and moving on. I did. 

 
CletiusMaximus said:
Kobe was criticized for his apology at the time, but I thought it is an excellent example of how to apologize in a difficult case like this.  Extremely humble, respectful and honest.  The main rub seems to be the concept that two people can have a sexual encounter, and one leaves thinking it was all completely consensual while the other feels some part of it crossed the line.  For me, based solely on my personal experience, I think this is something that is understandable and completely realistic in the course of human experience.  I have never been a fan of Kobe Bryant, but have total respect for him (or his writer) for this apology.  

As a side note, I don't agree with your statement that the victim "was afraid to testify because her name got out and the internet went crazy."  We don't know that is the case.  Much more likely is that she knew a financial settlement was coming, and decided that was a better path to take than going through a criminal trial.  She had some skeletons in her closet and it would be Kobe's lawyers' duty to put that in the record in his defense.  It would not have been a pleasant experience for her, and certainly could have resulted in an acquittal.
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She never got a settlement and there was no money. It’s literally in his apology:

"I also want to make it clear that I do not question the motives
of this young woman. No money has been paid to this woman. She has
agreed that this statement will not be used against me in the civil
case.

 
CurlyNight said:
I don't think that 100% him saying that means it was. It could have been rough consensual sex. No one knows for sure. The guy is dead. His wife and kids are what matters. Hopefully Vanessa and Natalia aren't reading such posts. It's done. He impacted so many people positively. I'd suggest you watch the memorial. Jordan crying, Vanessa's strength and grace. There is forgiveness and moving on. I did. 
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The girl he raped is still alive too. 

 
bigmarc27 said:
She never got a settlement and there was no money. It’s literally in his apology:

"I also want to make it clear that I do not question the motives
of this young woman. No money has been paid to this woman. She has
agreed that this statement will not be used against me in the civil
case.
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She got 2.5 million 

You should know this since you were there and know what happened.

Alao, what does Kobe being accused of rape have to so with you or anybody you know? 

 
fissure man said:
She got 2.5 million 

You should know this since you were there and know what happened.

Alao, what does Kobe being accused of rape have to so with you or anybody you know? 
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Because he got away with it because of his sweet J, just like people get away with #### all the time because they have more money.  Everything I had ever heard said she received no money,  if he paid out I guess he had something to pay for and I would be ashamed to idolize someone like that. 
 

 
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bigmarc27 said:
She never got a settlement and there was no money. It’s literally in his apology:

"I also want to make it clear that I do not question the motives
of this young woman. No money has been paid to this woman. She has
agreed that this statement will not be used against me in the civil
case.
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Of course she did.  This quote relates to the dismissal of the criminal case.  He specifically explains that a civil case is coming.  There's about a 100% certainty it was all negotiated as one package.  The LA Times estimated the civil settlement to be in excess of $2.5 million. 

 
CurlyNight said:
Yes. Because after years of being sexually assaulted by my uncle, I got help and with time I moved on. Call me dumb. 
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Then I’ve very sorry that happened to you, but you’re definitely the exception and not the rule in terms of getting over it. 

 
otb_lifer said:
this coming from a woman?  really?

wow.   

just wow. 
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Yes. And from many. Because what it means is you don't forget. But if you don't forgive you can't move on. You'll be your own prisoner in your life. Similar to the Cleveland abduction where they got help. The one that was there the longest and had it the worst was just on a talk show. She's married with a kid now in a happy life now. This doesn't happen until you can move on.

 
CurlyNight said:
Yes. And from many. Because what it means is you don't forget. But if you don't forgive you can't move on. You'll be your own prisoner in your life. Similar to the Cleveland abduction where they got help. The one that was there the longest and had it the worst was just on a talk show. She's married with a kid now in a happy life now. This doesn't happen until you can move on.
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of course they move on, because life moves on ... the human spirit is remarkable. 

but don't ever try to convince me for one effin' second that they "got over it"

not buying. 

nope. 

 
bigmarc27 said:
Then I’ve very sorry that happened to you, but you’re definitely the exception and not the rule in terms of getting over it. 
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Not really. Those who don't seek help don't do well. That's why the metoo thing came from. I had family not believing me. That and other crap made me decide to cut them out of my life. You eventually get in to survival mode then anger and you don't want the perpetrator to win. So with help you can move on. 

 
Daniel Tosh had a good take on Kobe back in the day...I wonder if he'll still do this joke:

I don’t know what’s more embarrassing in this country– that Michael Phelps fell from the graces for smoking marijuana or that you looked up to a swimmer in the first place? [laughs] [cheers and applause] Are you out of your mind? Swimming? You mean that thing you instinctively do before you die? “Yeah, but he’s really fast. It’s… It’s pretty heroic.” The first thing Michael Phelps should have done when that photo came out was call Kobe Bryant‘s publicist, because Kobe was accused of rape. And all he had to do was settle in civil court for millions of dollars, change his jersey number, win a championship, and that soulless town in L.A. couldn’t be prouder. Yeah, I just hope when parents let their kids run around in number 24 jerseys, they have the decency to be like, “oh, come on. Number eight was the rapist. [laughter] “24 just has a great work ethic. And an unblockable turnaround.” 
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otb_lifer said:
of course they move on, because life moves on ... the human spirit is remarkable. 

but don't ever try to convince me for one effin' second that they "got over it"

not buying. 

nope. 
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Where did I say we get over it. I said you don't forget but with help you move on if you seek help. It's not healthy to let that control your life. It's not easy and takes time but the you don't want that person to win is powerful. And remember, rape isn't about sex. It's about control.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
Kobe was criticized for his apology at the time, but I thought it is an excellent example of how to apologize in a difficult case like this.  Extremely humble, respectful and honest.  The main rub seems to be the concept that two people can have a sexual encounter, and one leaves thinking it was all completely consensual while the other feels some part of it crossed the line.  For me, based solely on my personal experience, I think this is something that is understandable and completely realistic in the course of human experience.  I have never been a fan of Kobe Bryant, but have total respect for him (or his writer) for this apology.  

As a side note, I don't agree with your statement that the victim "was afraid to testify because her name got out and the internet went crazy."  We don't know that is the case.  Much more likely is that she knew a financial settlement was coming, and decided that was a better path to take than going through a criminal trial.  She had some skeletons in her closet and it would be Kobe's lawyers' duty to put that in the record in his defense.  It would not have been a pleasant experience for her, and certainly could have resulted in an acquittal.
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If I remember correctly, she came from a wealthy family.  Looking for a payday did not seem to be the reason for her to claim rape.

 
CurlyNight said:
Where did I say we get over it. I said you don't forget but with help you move on if you seek help. It's not healthy to let that control your life. It's not easy and takes time but the you don't want that person to win is powerful. And remember, rape isn't about sex. It's about control.
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but you won't give this woman the benefit of the doubt, even after all you say to have been through ... yet you deify the man she accused. 

it's not adding up.

and i'm sure you know that the great majority of those who do seek help still struggle with depression, substance abuse, unhealthy relationships, fear/lack of intimacy, etc ... you've chosen to cherry pick outliers here, as Big Mac said. 

 
TheIronSheik said:
If I remember correctly, she came from a wealthy family.  Looking for a payday did not seem to be the reason for her to claim rape.
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I would never claim nor do I believe that "looking for a payday" was the reason she claimed rape.  However, I think the financial arrangement could be part of the reason (with other factors) that she decided not to testify, thereby forcing the prosecution to dismiss the criminal case. 

 
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CurlyNight said:
Again with assuming. My family is well off but I am not. Don't assume because family are that so are you.
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Wait.  So you guys can assume she did it for money, but we can't assume she didn't do it for money?  Got it.  

Great talking with you.  You're also the person who when I was talking about my depression and how I was having trouble dealing with things and it was making me nervous, you came out and blamed me.  So pardon me if I don't take your advice too seriously.  My wife was sexually assaulted as a teenager and she carries that #### with her 30 years later.  And she had to endure people claiming that she made the claims for other reasons just to hurt the guy who did it.  

I thought I lost a lot of respect for you in that mental health thread, but you've hit rock bottom here.  Late.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
I would never claim nor do I believe that "looking for a payday" was the reason she claimed rape.  However, I think the financial arrangement could be part of the reason (with other factors) that she decided not to testify, thereby forcing the prosecution to dismiss the criminal case. 
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I can agree with that.  She may have not wanted to have her face plastered all over the TV.  But at the same time wanted him to have some sort of penalty.  

 
bigmarc27 said:
Because he got away with it because of his sweet J, just like people get away with #### all the time because they have more money.  Everything I had ever heard said she received no money,  if he paid out I guess he had something to pay for and I would be ashamed to idolize someone like that. 
 
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@Sweet J?

 
I remember reading the interviews and transcripts back in the day and believing that something untoward happened in that hotel room but it wasn't rape. She was there to have sex but the act was not what she envisioned. As far as Kobe lying to detectives right away saying he didn't have sex with her, he did that because he didn't want his wife to know he was serially unfaithful. It would have been an interesting case from a legal perspective but I don't believe he would have been convicted.

 
i am sorry to hear honestly the bad stuff in here that people have said they or loved ones went through and about issues that people are dealing with me i got my own and i just want to wish you all well take that to the bank brohans 

 
Nipsey said:
I remember reading the interviews and transcripts back in the day and believing that something untoward happened in that hotel room but it wasn't rape. She was there to have sex but the act was not what she envisioned. As far as Kobe lying to detectives right away saying he didn't have sex with her, he did that because he didn't want his wife to know he was serially unfaithful. It would have been an interesting case from a legal perspective but I don't believe he would have been convicted.
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This.

And some of you, won't mention names, are coming across as total d-bags in this thread.

 
Ok. I've given some countering thoughts as food for thought. Not everyone is doomed for life as some here make it sound. A lot of us have gotten on ok or even very well as I mentioned about that gal who was held captive for years tortured and raped. Point is with help and time one can move on. Doesn't mean you forget. I've structured my life such that I have very few family left. I'm alone. But I'm happier and wouldn't be had I not worked hard for it and suffered through the losses and fears. I'm sorry not everyone can reach that level even if they seek help. I guess I'm tired of reading doom and possibly pity. My last word on this is there is hope. I pray people struggling can find peace and move on to a better life. Don't let the controller win, for any type of abuse. Abusers love to have you kept down. Take care of yourself and be strong. They hate that.

Peace.

 
CurlyNight said:
Ok. I've given some countering thoughts as food for thought. Not everyone is doomed for life as some here make it sound. A lot of us have gotten on ok or even very well as I mentioned about that gal who was held captive for years tortured and raped. Point is with help and time one can move on. Doesn't mean you forget. I've structured my life such that I have very few family left. I'm alone. But I'm happier and wouldn't be had I not worked hard for it and suffered through the losses and fears. I'm sorry not everyone can reach that level even if they seek help. I guess I'm tired of reading doom and possibly pity. My last word on this is there is hope. I pray people struggling can find peace and move on to a better life. Don't let the controller win, for any type of abuse. Abusers love to have you kept down. Take care of yourself and be strong. They hate that.

Peace.
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I pray that if these women are depressed, they don't go in the mental health thread when you're in there. 

 
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