LHUCKS
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Kolb to AZ... (1 Viewer)
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LHUCKS
Footballguy
Sudoku_in_the_Bathtub
Footballguy
Kolb is no different than the last QB we ran out of town, Matt Leinart.
Noodle armed check down artist. Check
Backpeddles & Escapes pocket at any sign of pressure. Check.
Zero leadership ability. Check.
I don't think they Leinart him outta town before the season (even if he's obviously not the future here), but it wouldn't be a shocker either.
Noodle armed check down artist. Check
Backpeddles & Escapes pocket at any sign of pressure. Check.
Zero leadership ability. Check.
I don't think they Leinart him outta town before the season (even if he's obviously not the future here), but it wouldn't be a shocker either.
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Cardinals fans are spending way too much time worrying about their QB and not nearly enough time worrying about that horrendous offensive line that won't let any of their young and inexperienced QB's stay upright long enough to find their second read.
Kolb may not be the long term answer, but until that line can give him even average pass protection...there's no way to know. Skelton....is not the answer.
Kolb may not be the long term answer, but until that line can give him even average pass protection...there's no way to know. Skelton....is not the answer.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Nailed it
sbonomo
Footballguy
Graves is an idiot, bidwells are about the worst owners in any pro sport....seems about like par for the course.... i really need to get a new team. Here is to another frustrating year of football...Go Cards!It's astonishing to me that the idiocy of these GMs is overlooked.
sbonomo
Footballguy
We have spent a ton of pics on the OL including several top 10 picks (brown and davis). I personally think it is a scouting issue rather than a coaching issue. Our scouting department is horrible. Now, if we had a QB that could quickly recognize the defense and make a good decision (see kurt Warner) the OL might not look as bad as they have for the last two years. I still think they are bottom third in the league but they are not the worst group. Bottom line, we need a QB ahead of anything else.
Well...it might also be on the coaching a little bit. I know that the top 2 RBs were out last night, but using Stephens-Howling as a 3-down back is assinine. Especially when you're backed up near your own goal line. When the DESIGN of your play calls for a 160 pound running back to take on a DE flying in untouched, the QB is dead meat. If there's nobody else, then you should be utilizing screens, draws, and misdirection plays. Not a five step drop relying on minnie mouse to block for you.Kolb had pass protection on exactly one play last night...his first pass attempt. The throw to Roberts was perfect, if uncaught. (Anywhere else was a pick, and there was no time to find another read...the location allowed the chance at a catch if Roberts turns a half second earlier.) The play where Kolb got hurt was also a good QB play...rolled away from pressure and made a nice off-balance throw to gain a few yards instead of taking a safety. The stat line sucks, but there's a heck of a lot more going on there than the QB.Skelton enjoyed better protection because New Orleans sent it's second stringers in...and his results were not exactly inspiring.I maintain that the bigger problems in Arizona are the line play and coaching, not the QBs.
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Clifford
Footballguy
Do you feel like Skelton has already had his chance to step up (last year) and failed? Not looking towards any improvement beyond what we saw last year? Or was what you saw last year so bad you think he'll be subpar even with improvement?
Clifford
Footballguy
Rotoworld's reports were that it was the first string against him...and I didn't see a wholesale D change once he went in.
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
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'ImTheScientist said:VERY
No clue how all this will play out...but I know what I saw last night...and that was HORRIBLE pass protection, and only five attempts. Skelton may well win this job, but he didn't win it last night.
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
Per Rotoworld
Shutout
Footballguy
I watch a lot of Cardinals games (thanks in advance for the condolences) and I think it's telling to just how hopeless this is based on the fact that I honestly don't know which poison I hope this team drinks. Here's the deal:
The O-line is not terrible, its incomplete and being asked to be two different things, depending on who is at QB and the health of the RBs at any given time. Given that both of these things (RB/QB) have been a ?? for two years now, the line has no hope. They are truly behind the 8-ball, locked into a perpetual nut-shell game.
Kolb is not terrible. He is untrained in the offense, has been injured, and is on the precipice of entering a David Carr-like funk of not trusting his pocket. But what he brings to the table in terms of what he could do for the offense, I think is ultimately, long-term, better for this team. But I doubt he will ever make it through the ugly duckling phase, mentally or physically. he really needed to come into a situaiton where he had time to learn the offense and where HE was the only unknown piece in the equation.
Skelton has the attitude and the big arm to play through what they have RIGHT NOW, with all the ??. He can/will hang in longer. He can/will get the ball to Fitz easier. But he does not have the feet or the touch/quick assessment ability at this point to run the short game.
I honestly think that if the Cards announce Skelton wins the job its truly an indicationt hat they know they are broken and they are sacrificing Skelton in hopes of saving Kolb down the road, knowing that Skelton will likely make it less ugly to look at but with a significantly lower ceiling.
IMO, what the Cards REALLY need is to get their RB settled in terms of health and HOW they are going to use the RB(s) and THEN plug in the QB.
Its going to be a mess until then. The silver lining I have in this is that I think the defense is really on the verge of playing very well as a unit and that might aleve some pressure and give more opportunity.
The O-line is not terrible, its incomplete and being asked to be two different things, depending on who is at QB and the health of the RBs at any given time. Given that both of these things (RB/QB) have been a ?? for two years now, the line has no hope. They are truly behind the 8-ball, locked into a perpetual nut-shell game.
Kolb is not terrible. He is untrained in the offense, has been injured, and is on the precipice of entering a David Carr-like funk of not trusting his pocket. But what he brings to the table in terms of what he could do for the offense, I think is ultimately, long-term, better for this team. But I doubt he will ever make it through the ugly duckling phase, mentally or physically. he really needed to come into a situaiton where he had time to learn the offense and where HE was the only unknown piece in the equation.
Skelton has the attitude and the big arm to play through what they have RIGHT NOW, with all the ??. He can/will hang in longer. He can/will get the ball to Fitz easier. But he does not have the feet or the touch/quick assessment ability at this point to run the short game.
I honestly think that if the Cards announce Skelton wins the job its truly an indicationt hat they know they are broken and they are sacrificing Skelton in hopes of saving Kolb down the road, knowing that Skelton will likely make it less ugly to look at but with a significantly lower ceiling.
IMO, what the Cards REALLY need is to get their RB settled in terms of health and HOW they are going to use the RB(s) and THEN plug in the QB.
Its going to be a mess until then. The silver lining I have in this is that I think the defense is really on the verge of playing very well as a unit and that might aleve some pressure and give more opportunity.
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This seems pretty pessimistic. Skelton went 7-2 last year didn't he? Only 2 losses were to playoff teams. Even with Kolb a lot of the losses were competitive and were close losses to playoff teams.
VaTerp
Footballguy
What all that says to me is they I don't think we really appreciated how good Kurt Warner was. He had this team on the verge of winning a Super Bowl and now they are struggling to be competitive.Anyway, according to Schefter, it's Skelton's job to lose for now:
Believe it or not, but they were actually pretty competitive last year. They went 8-8 and had 4 losses by 4 points or less. And 5 of their 8 losses were against playoff teams (Balt, Pitt, Cinc, NYG, SF).
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
And it always looks worse when you have a bad QB back there.
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VaTerp
Footballguy
At the same time, you could say that 4 of their 8 wins came in OT and they only beat one playoff team (splitting with San Francisco).But yeah, they were competitive last year.My point remains though that I think we didnt fully appreciate how good Warner was. And I guess the larger point would be in a league where not much separates the best from the worst (the 6-10 Skins swept the Super Bowl Champion Giants) QB play is that much more significant.
Fair enough. Wasn't questioning your comment about Warner just pointing out that they were the definition of a competitive team all while having some pretty shoddy qb play. Makes you wonder how good they might be if the got some decent oline/qb play (whoever you want to blame it on)'VaTerp said:
VaTerp
Footballguy
You're absolutely right. They were competitive last year.And I think they, like almost every team in the league, are simply consistently good QB play away from being a playoff team. And I place the blame much more on the QB play than the O-line. Was the line play that much better when Warner took them to a Super Bowl 3 years ago?
Shane Falco
Footballguy
G-King?
Clifford
Footballguy
Seems like he's saying that Kolb is now in a position where he has to win the job in the next two weeks, which is different from it being his job to lose, which would put the burden on Skelton to win the job with demonstrably superior play.That being said, I think Skelton needs to seriously outperform Kolb in the next two games to really lock it down before the season starts. Of course, if neither distinguishes himself, then whoever starts the season will have a very tenuous hold on the job. When games start counting they'll be even more ready to pull the starter, whoever that is, since they don't see tons of separation between the two already.Skelton has the upper hand but he needs to strengthen it over the next two tilts in a big way. Kolb gets the start against Oakland, which likely works in Skelton's favor after seeing what the Raiders D did to the Cowboy's offensive line.
Posted this in another thread:
Lot of people criticizing Kolb, and maybe it's his fault for not adjusting his protection...but post snap...he's had ZERO time. Also, it really does seem like Oakland is blitzing every other down. With this many blitzes, why isn't Whisenhunt calling some draws and screens?
Answer: Because they are playing the plays they wanted to, regardless of what defense Oakland is bringing. Pretty stupid, IMO.
It isn't all on Kolb. Dude's getting hit on virtually every drop-back. NO QB CAN DELIVER when getting hit that much.
Lot of people criticizing Kolb, and maybe it's his fault for not adjusting his protection...but post snap...he's had ZERO time. Also, it really does seem like Oakland is blitzing every other down. With this many blitzes, why isn't Whisenhunt calling some draws and screens?
Answer: Because they are playing the plays they wanted to, regardless of what defense Oakland is bringing. Pretty stupid, IMO.
It isn't all on Kolb. Dude's getting hit on virtually every drop-back. NO QB CAN DELIVER when getting hit that much.
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Abraham
Footballguy
I have kolb in a 24 team dynasty where qbs are gold. I want him to win the job. But I cant remember the last time he threw more than 5 yards downfield. Yes, the line stinks. But the only way to stop the blitz is to run through it or throw over the top. He can't put one up deep down the sideline for Fitzgerald every once in a while?
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
They're blitzing every time because Kolb is scared ####less of pressure. Even pressure that's not there.Cards need to cut their losses. He's a lost cause at this point.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
BigBen.
12punch
Footballguy
think he means getting hit by rushers, not women trying to fend off an attack.BigBen.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
keep your day job.derp derpBigBen.
JetMaxx
Footballguy
Bringing Rapelsberger into this is a complete hijack. Kolb is struggling, no doubt. He isn't getting rid of the ball. However, after watching last night, I'm starting to seriously question the play calling and structure of the offense. On the play that resulted in a safety, Kolb had just been sacked on the 1, narrowly missing a safety. It's 3rd down, 14 yds to go on the 1 yd line, they put in the 3rd team RB, James, AND PUT KOLB IN THE FREAKING SHOTGUN. Are you serious?!? What play caller in their right mind after that series of events, down and distance, etc does that to a QB that's clearly struggling and has a woeful OL? A play call like that has such a high fail level and shows such little regard for the state of your team that it would be an embarrassment to take responsibilty for it. That's high school level bad coaching IMO.think he means getting hit by rushers, not women trying to fend off an attack.BigBen.
Bruce Hammond
Footballguy
I've seen enough now over three preseason games plus last year to reach my own conclusion on Kolb. The OL problems can't continually be used as an excuse. Kolb apparently doesn't possess the ability to adjust the way good QBs do, or even as Skelton does. Skelton has shown much more composure under pressure and willingness to take his shots, make the effort to get the ball to Fitzgerald, etc.
Even if Kolb does manage to improve marginally and Arizona does hand him the job over Skelton (undeservedly IMO, due to their cost of obtaining him), I just don't see him as someone who can ever become very fantasy worthy. One could make the excuse for Kolb looking so helpless under pressure if he were a rookie, but he's in his 6th year in the NFL now. He is what he is.
Even if Kolb does manage to improve marginally and Arizona does hand him the job over Skelton (undeservedly IMO, due to their cost of obtaining him), I just don't see him as someone who can ever become very fantasy worthy. One could make the excuse for Kolb looking so helpless under pressure if he were a rookie, but he's in his 6th year in the NFL now. He is what he is.
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VaTerp
Footballguy
Lots of excuses being made for Kolb. The O-line, the coaching, etc. But I put most of this on him. Plenty of guys can play the position when everything is perfect but it's not gonna be perfect and you have to adjust. That's part of the job.Kolb is horrible under pressure and worse, as Shutout pointed out, Kolb is in a Carr like funk where he is sensing pressure that is not there. On the safety following the intentional grounding, the coaching staff was probably giving Kolb a chance to prove he could get rid of the ball in that situation. Everyone knew pressure was coming. And he had time to get rid of the ball.Kolb took his eyes away from the field , looked at D-linemen on his left, then turned and looked to the right of the pocket before taking the sack. That was all on him.Tommy Kelly of the Raiders went on to say, "That boy's scared." Kelly also said:
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With less than 16 career starts (not including pre-season).Look...I believed in the guy, and I'm seriously doubting that belief right now. He has NOT been good. But I wouldn't give up on any player with so little real game experiance and whose team and coach have consistantly let him down that much. Poor pass blocking and horrible coaching have ruined more than one promising QB.
I saw Kolb stand tall in the pocket on a good first drive. I've seen him get leveled from the blind side while delivering a strike...more than once. Yeah...he's abandoned the pocket too quickly at times, but far too many other times that pocket has simply disintegrated around him far more quickly than it should have. He has no faith in that line, and they've given him ZERO reason to develop that faith. The caoaches have consistantly invited the blitz by dialing up long routes with 5 or 7 step drops, leaving midgets like Stephens-Howling trying to block an untouched 250 pound lineman coming clean off the edge on Kolb's backside. (Go watch the first game...Kolb get HAMMERED near his own end zone this way...that should NEVER happen.) And after the opponents blitz 3 downs out of four, and sack your QB twice, what's the coaches answer? Is it a screen or a draw? Hell no...it's another 5 step drop requiring at least 3 seconds of protection for the routes to develope, than we're all blaming Kolb for not getting rid of the ball in 2 seconds.
STUPID STUPID COACHING AND PLAY CALLING, regardless of the QB.
Teams are sending pressure constantly because that pressure is getting HOME constantly, regardless of what the QB does. Skelton is bigger and stronger...it affects him a bit less...no big surprise. But Skelton is more limited with a clean pocket, his upside is far lower. Skelton is a better answer with a porous O-Line, but that does NOT make him a better QB.
Zona needs a new coach before they worry about the QB.
Kolb may well be a failure, but what I've seen tells me the first failure isn't his...it's Whisenhunt.
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kutta
Footballguy
I disagree. Kolb and Skelton played behind the same offensive line for the past three games. But no one is talking about Skelton being scared. No one is talking about the sacks Skelton is taking.
The problem is that Kolb holds onto the ball too long, doesn't step up into the pocket, and is afraid to take a hit. It's not all that hard to see.
I agree 100% that the O-line is sucking. I'll also agree that some of the calls by the coaching staff are questionable. But Skelton is playing under the same parameters and doing much better than Kolb is, so all things being equal, I don't know how you can give Kolb a pass. Skelton should and will be the week one starter.
Abraham
Footballguy
That would probably improve the line by subtraction.
Card Trader
Footballguy
As for Kolb, dude is scared and it's obvious. Sadly I think he should be cut, even though the Cards paid that big bonus for him. Bring in a vet backup and let Skelton run the show. Skelton sucks too but at least he ain't scared at all, plus he can actually see over the line.packseasontix
Footballguy
Did they play with the same packages, the same play calls, and the same defense packages against him?
Sudoku_in_the_Bathtub
Footballguy
Not that us Card fans didn't already know he's terrified back there...
Just really really really hope we cut bait here. So reminiscent of David Carr and Marc Bulger completely losing their confidence. I'm sure Kolb will toll around as a backup for a few years. He's not a real likable guy to begin with, so hope he's out sooner rather than later. Maybe he can latch on with GB knowing odds are slim he'll have to play much.Seen him the last 2 years in camp and have been thoroughly unimpressed with Kolb. Really don't view him much higher than I did Leinart. Both being NFL backup talent with a propensity to leave the pocket for no reason and continually check down w/o going through reads. Experience (if you want to continue using that) really doesn't mean much to me, as I've seen a complete lack of physical talent with him. Buddy of mine joked last night while watching "Biggest QB bust since Rob Johnson?". Told him if his name were Orton/McNabb (2 other mentioned scenarios last year), he'd be long gone outta town.
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Donnybrook
Footballguy
My favorite tweet on Kolb from Faux John Madden:
kutta
Footballguy
pretty much. yes.
VaTerp
Footballguy
I would take Wisenhunt as a coach 10 times over 10 over Kolb as a QB.The safety was not a 5 step drop. It was shotgun. And those were not 3 second routes either.
The O-line deserves its share of blame but the pressure is getting home because Kolb is holding the ball too long as well. Its not regardless of what the QB does. Again read this quote from Tommy Kelly:
I agree Kolb is better with a clean pocket. A lot of guys can play the position with a clean pocket. But this is the NFL. Handling pressure as a QB is a BIG part of the job.At this point, Kolb is horrible at that aspect. You can blame everybody else around him but at some point a QB is responsible for his play on the field.
Bruce Hammond
Footballguy
We went through this several years ago with Arizona during Whisenhunt's tenure. The anointed starter was to have been Leinart, the 10th overall pick in the draft. Kurt Warner had struggled as a Giant with injuries and had given way to Eli, and was now supposed to back up Leinart. But a funny thing happened. Warner showed up playing great, Leinart never measured up, and Whisenhunt had the gonads to go with Warner rather than cave to expectations hoping Leinart would eventually figure things out.
So, he's been there before. Despite Kolb's cost, he hasn't earned the job and I think Whiz is a lot more interested in winning games and keeping his own job than justifying the GM's investment in Kolb.
So, he's been there before. Despite Kolb's cost, he hasn't earned the job and I think Whiz is a lot more interested in winning games and keeping his own job than justifying the GM's investment in Kolb.
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BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
In Pittsburgh (Whiz's motherland land) they routinely test players in the preseason with what many would call "bad play-calling/design".Its how they go about actually seeing what a player is capable of without them being "carried" by the other players or team design.
