Kyle Orton and Tim Tebow (1 Viewer)

[Jedeye]

Kyle Orton has looked pretty good so far this year and seems to be coming into his own as a legit NFL QB. How does this affect Tebow for not only this year, but the future as well? Tebow was brought in to be thee man eventually, but if Orton stays on track, can they really afford not to play Orton? Just wondering how others think this may pan out.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Orton signed an extension for 2011. I think Orton plays this year and next. Then its handed over to Tebow (barring major injury)

The kid wasnt ready to play yet and Orton has seized the opportunity

 

[Hurl Bruce]

Orton playing well helps Tebow. Now he doesn't have to play in the immediate future and can learn the game. he has a long way to go and can use the time.

 

[TheFanatic]

Orton signed an extension for 2011. I think Orton plays this year and next. Then its handed over to Tebow (barring major injury) The kid wasnt ready to play yet and Orton has seized the opportunity

Tebow could ride the pine for three years if Orton would sign a cap friendly deal that kept him there another year or two. But if Orton doesn't resign and goes elsewhere then TEbow will have the shot after 2011.

 

[SSOG]

Orton signed an extension for 2011. I think Orton plays this year and next. Then its handed over to Tebow (barring major injury) The kid wasnt ready to play yet and Orton has seized the opportunity

To be honest, if Orton keeps playing like this, I'd hope the Broncos would sign him to a long-term extension and keep on using him. I don't care how highly you thought of the rookie coming in, if you've got a QB playing like one of the top 5 guys in the NFL, you keep riding him for as long as you can. If that means that Tim Tebow sits on the bench for 5 years, then I hope Tim Tebow sits on the bench for 5 years.It reminds me a lot of the Brees/Rivers situation, to be honest. That wound up working out alright for San Diego (although I think Brees is a better QB than Rivers, and they didn't manage to get any compensation for him), but could you imagine what kind of second guessing they'd be going through right now if Philip Rivers had been, say, Alex Smith?

 

[Hugonel]

Orton signed an extension for 2011. I think Orton plays this year and next. Then its handed over to Tebow (barring major injury) The kid wasnt ready to play yet and Orton has seized the opportunity

To be honest, if Orton keeps playing like this, I'd hope the Broncos would sign him to a long-term extension and keep on using him. I don't care how highly you thought of the rookie coming in, if you've got a QB playing like one of the top 5 guys in the NFL, you keep riding him for as long as you can. If that means that Tim Tebow sits on the bench for 5 years, then I hope Tim Tebow sits on the bench for 5 years.It reminds me a lot of the Brees/Rivers situation, to be honest. That wound up working out alright for San Diego (although I think Brees is a better QB than Rivers, and they didn't manage to get any compensation for him), but could you imagine what kind of second guessing they'd be going through right now if Philip Rivers had been, say, Alex Smith?

What San Diego did was borderline crazy. It worked out great, but what a huge, huge gamble. It's not like the Packers where they had a star on his last legs.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Orton signed an extension for 2011. I think Orton plays this year and next. Then its handed over to Tebow (barring major injury) The kid wasnt ready to play yet and Orton has seized the opportunity

To be honest, if Orton keeps playing like this, I'd hope the Broncos would sign him to a long-term extension and keep on using him. I don't care how highly you thought of the rookie coming in, if you've got a QB playing like one of the top 5 guys in the NFL, you keep riding him for as long as you can. If that means that Tim Tebow sits on the bench for 5 years, then I hope Tim Tebow sits on the bench for 5 years.It reminds me a lot of the Brees/Rivers situation, to be honest. That wound up working out alright for San Diego (although I think Brees is a better QB than Rivers, and they didn't manage to get any compensation for him), but could you imagine what kind of second guessing they'd be going through right now if Philip Rivers had been, say, Alex Smith?

What San Diego did was borderline crazy. It worked out great, but what a huge, huge gamble. It's not like the Packers where they had a star on his last legs.

If Brees did blow out his shoulder in week17 that season who knows what would of happened. they got a 3rd round comp pick for Brees and Im still pissed thats all they got

 

[SSOG]

What San Diego did was borderline crazy. It worked out great, but what a huge, huge gamble. It's not like the Packers where they had a star on his last legs.

In hindsight it's crazy, but at the time it wasn't. Remember, Brees blew out his shoulder in week 17 that season and very few teams were willing to take a risk on him. He was a UFA and the only teams that were remotely interested were Miami and New Orleans... and Miami preferred Daunte Culpepper. Hindsight is 20/20 and all, but I think it was completely understandable that San Diego let Brees walk. Sucks for them that they didn't get anything in return for him, though.Unless Denver finds itself in a similar situation (Orton blows out his shoulder and nobody knows how he's going to recover), I'd much rather see them extend Orton and keep riding him instead of turning the reigns over to Tebow. I'm actually one of the biggest Tebow fans on these forums, but Denver drafted Tim Tebow hoping they could get top-10 or top-5 QB play out of him... so why on earth should they give up top-10 or top-5 QB play in order to get him on the field?

 

[JDub15]

What San Diego did was borderline crazy. It worked out great, but what a huge, huge gamble. It's not like the Packers where they had a star on his last legs.

In hindsight it's crazy, but at the time it wasn't. Remember, Brees blew out his shoulder in week 17 that season and very few teams were willing to take a risk on him. He was a UFA and the only teams that were remotely interested were Miami and New Orleans... and Miami preferred Daunte Culpepper. Hindsight is 20/20 and all, but I think it was completely understandable that San Diego let Brees walk. Sucks for them that they didn't get anything in return for him, though.Unless Denver finds itself in a similar situation (Orton blows out his shoulder and nobody knows how he's going to recover), I'd much rather see them extend Orton and keep riding him instead of turning the reigns over to Tebow. I'm actually one of the biggest Tebow fans on these forums, but Denver drafted Tim Tebow hoping they could get top-10 or top-5 QB play out of him... so why on earth should they give up top-10 or top-5 QB play in order to get him on the field?

:(

 

[BRONG]

I think people are getting a little too excited over his numbers. Winning at Tennessee is nice too, but I need to see a lot more...like consistency for one. For example, Orton made many key mistakes in that Indy game at home, I was there. That was nowhere near a top 5 QB. Look, I like the guy, but he is not a "top 5 guy in the NFL", sorry. No way.

 

[cubbie5150]

I think people are getting a little too excited over his numbers. Winning at Tennessee is nice too, but I need to see a lot more...like consistency for one. For example, Orton made many key mistakes in that Indy game at home, I was there. That was nowhere near a top 5 QB. Look, I like the guy, but he is not a "top 5 guy in the NFL", sorry. No way.

And he needs to be more productive in the red zone. Prater had, what?, four 30-something yd FGs week 4 alone?

 

[Dr. Malo]

Kyle Orton has looked pretty good so far this year and seems to be coming into his own as a legit NFL QB. How does this affect Tebow for not only this year, but the future as well? Tebow was brought in to be thee man eventually, but if Orton stays on track, can they really afford not to play Orton? Just wondering how others think this may pan out.

Orton is the starter for now and the future. McDaniels isn't an idiot. He has something very special right now in Orton and he isn't going to change this unless something really, really, really bad happens (Orton dies).Tebow can ride the pine and learn and be used sparingly at the goalline. No one is going to rush him onto the field. The fans aren't clamoring for it and ownership doesn't care. Unless Orton dies... nothing will change.

 

[LarryAllen'sJockstrap]

I think people are getting a little too excited over his numbers. Winning at Tennessee is nice too, but I need to see a lot more...like consistency for one. For example, Orton made many key mistakes in that Indy game at home, I was there. That was nowhere near a top 5 QB. Look, I like the guy, but he is not a "top 5 guy in the NFL", sorry. No way.

Yeah; I was just looking at his stats and was wondering what is going on. 175 attempts and 1419 yards in 4 games, but only 6 TDs. 1 TD every 30 tosses is very David Garrard like. A QBs main objectives are to be effecient between the 20s (which it looks like he is) and get the ball in the endzone inside the 20s.

 

[az_prof]

What San Diego did was borderline crazy. It worked out great, but what a huge, huge gamble. It's not like the Packers where they had a star on his last legs.

In hindsight it's crazy, but at the time it wasn't. Remember, Brees blew out his shoulder in week 17 that season and very few teams were willing to take a risk on him. He was a UFA and the only teams that were remotely interested were Miami and New Orleans... and Miami preferred Daunte Culpepper. Hindsight is 20/20 and all, but I think it was completely understandable that San Diego let Brees walk. Sucks for them that they didn't get anything in return for him, though.Unless Denver finds itself in a similar situation (Orton blows out his shoulder and nobody knows how he's going to recover), I'd much rather see them extend Orton and keep riding him instead of turning the reigns over to Tebow. I'm actually one of the biggest Tebow fans on these forums, but Denver drafted Tim Tebow hoping they could get top-10 or top-5 QB play out of him... so why on earth should they give up top-10 or top-5 QB play in order to get him on the field?

I agree. Orton is playing lights out. Why think about making a change until you have to?That being said, those of us with Tebow on their dynasty roster: is it time to cut him if a decent prospect comes along? I thought about cutting him to sign Max Hall. And I am kicking myself now because I cut Vick this summer in order to have the spot to draft Tebow. I can see making the sacrifices to keep a prospect on your bench until he develops, but I honestly thought it would be next year when we would see what Tebow could do and maybe even the end of this season if the team tanked. Now, it is looking like it could be years before Tebow starts, if ever. Jettison him? Or wait a year?

 

[SSOG]

I agree. Orton is playing lights out. Why think about making a change until you have to?That being said, those of us with Tebow on their dynasty roster: is it time to cut him if a decent prospect comes along? I thought about cutting him to sign Max Hall. And I am kicking myself now because I cut Vick this summer in order to have the spot to draft Tebow. I can see making the sacrifices to keep a prospect on your bench until he develops, but I honestly thought it would be next year when we would see what Tebow could do and maybe even the end of this season if the team tanked. Now, it is looking like it could be years before Tebow starts, if ever. Jettison him? Or wait a year?

If you were a True Believer, then this is the time to buy. Don't be the guy who cut Philip Rivers when Drew Brees started playing well, or the guy who cut Aaron Rodgers when Favre was refusing to retire.If you were never a True Believer... well, then what was Tebow ever doing on your roster in the first place? If you took him in the 3rd round, then go ahead and cut bait now, but most people had to burn a late 1st or early 2nd on him, and it's too early to cut bait on that.

 

[Raider Nation]

It reminds me a lot of the Brees/Rivers situation, to be honest.

Except for the fact there were TWO good quarterbacks in that San Diego situation.

 

[Football Jones]

In short, Orton isn't as good as his numbers would indicate. That said, he's turned into a nice QB, albeit one with some limitations.

If Tebow develops like I think he will, you're eventually going to have a QB controversy. You may as well write it in stone, LOL. What Tebow brings is a stronger arm & much more athleticism.

I believe Tebow is going to be one helluva FF QB in McDaniels' system (if McDaniels is still there).

 

[CaptainHook]

I think people are getting a little too excited over his numbers. Winning at Tennessee is nice too, but I need to see a lot more...like consistency for one. For example, Orton made many key mistakes in that Indy game at home, I was there. That was nowhere near a top 5 QB. Look, I like the guy, but he is not a "top 5 guy in the NFL", sorry. No way.

Yeah; I was just looking at his stats and was wondering what is going on. 175 attempts and 1419 yards in 4 games, but only 6 TDs. 1 TD every 30 tosses is very David Garrard like. A QBs main objectives are to be effecient between the 20s (which it looks like he is) and get the ball in the endzone inside the 20s.

Its called not having a running game

 

[moleculo]

It reminds me a lot of the Brees/Rivers situation, to be honest.

QB from Purdue, drafted in the middle rounds and never really produced at a high level. His team goes out and gets a QB with a highly criticized throwing motion in the first round, and all of a sudden the Purdue alum elevates his game.I can see a similarity here.

 

[kd1]

If Tebow develops like I think he will, you're eventually going to have a QB controversy. You may as well write it in stone, LOL. What Tebow brings is a stronger arm & much more athleticism.

he does??

 

[SSOG]

In short, Orton isn't as good as his numbers would indicate. That said, he's turned into a nice QB, albeit one with some limitations.

If Tebow develops like I think he will, you're eventually going to have a QB controversy. You may as well write it in stone, LOL. What Tebow brings is a stronger arm & much more athleticism.

I believe Tebow is going to be one helluva FF QB in McDaniels' system (if McDaniels is still there).

Out of curiosity, what do you see as Orton's limitations?

If Tebow develops like I think he will, you're eventually going to have a QB controversy. You may as well write it in stone, LOL. What Tebow brings is a stronger arm & much more athleticism.

he does??

Yes.

 

[switz]

I think people are getting a little too excited over his numbers. Winning at Tennessee is nice too, but I need to see a lot more...like consistency for one. For example, Orton made many key mistakes in that Indy game at home, I was there. That was nowhere near a top 5 QB. Look, I like the guy, but he is not a "top 5 guy in the NFL", sorry. No way.

Yeah; I was just looking at his stats and was wondering what is going on. 175 attempts and 1419 yards in 4 games, but only 6 TDs. 1 TD every 30 tosses is very David Garrard like. A QBs main objectives are to be effecient between the 20s (which it looks like he is) and get the ball in the endzone inside the 20s.

All QBs will make some mistakes, Orton doesn't make dumb mistakes. They do need to improve their TD ratio, but a lot of that has to do with no real deep ball threat outside of Thomas, who is still slowly getting worked into the offense.

 

[Buffaloes]

I think people are getting a little too excited over his numbers. Winning at Tennessee is nice too, but I need to see a lot more...like consistency for one. For example, Orton made many key mistakes in that Indy game at home, I was there. That was nowhere near a top 5 QB. Look, I like the guy, but he is not a "top 5 guy in the NFL", sorry. No way.

Yeah; I was just looking at his stats and was wondering what is going on. 175 attempts and 1419 yards in 4 games, but only 6 TDs. 1 TD every 30 tosses is very David Garrard like. A QBs main objectives are to be effecient between the 20s (which it looks like he is) and get the ball in the endzone inside the 20s.

All QBs will make some mistakes, Orton doesn't make dumb mistakes. They do need to improve their TD ratio, but a lot of that has to do with no real deep ball threat outside of Thomas, who is still slowly getting worked into the offense.

Brandon Lloyd has been a fine deep threat thus far. And he's got a nice rapport with Orton.

 

[moleculo]

In short, Orton isn't as good as his numbers would indicate. That said, he's turned into a nice QB, albeit one with some limitations.If Tebow develops like I think he will, you're eventually going to have a QB controversy. You may as well write it in stone, LOL. What Tebow brings is a stronger arm & much more athleticism. I believe Tebow is going to be one helluva FF QB in McDaniels' system (if McDaniels is still there).

Out of curiosity, what do you see as Orton's limitations?

I know you are asking football jones, but I question his accuracy on mid-range throws. He hasn't really been hitting people in stride - Lloyd makes a lot of circus catches. Really, the only RAC comes from screens.

 

[Jambi]

Looks, folks. This is all about McDaniels. He created Tom Brady out of thin air. When Brady went down Cassel came and threw skin off the ball. He came to Denver and quickly dealt Cutler to the dismay of Broncos fans everywhere. What has Cutler done since? Set the single season interceptions record. Now he's 4 games into his second season with throw-in, Orton who just happens to be on pace for 6,000 yards.

Orton is not a top 5, 10 or even 15 talent. He's just not. He's a rich man's Garrard. Not even a Pennington. You think McGenius is going to have problems working with Tebow?



HE TURNED MATT CASSEL INTO STEVE YOUNG

 

[Kilgore]

Isn't everyone forgetting Brady Quinn? Isn't Brady Quinn breathing down Orton's neck? If Orton comes out and throws a couple of picks against the Ravens, I bet the reigns get handed to Brady...

 

[moleculo]

Isn't everyone forgetting Brady Quinn? Isn't Brady Quinn breathing down Orton's neck? If Orton comes out and throws a couple of picks against the Ravens, I bet the reigns get handed to Brady...

I don't think anyone has forgotten Quinn. Lord knows, I've been trying to.

 

[SSOG]

Looks, folks. This is all about McDaniels. He created Tom Brady out of thin air. When Brady went down Cassel came and threw skin off the ball. He came to Denver and quickly dealt Cutler to the dismay of Broncos fans everywhere. What has Cutler done since? Set the single season interceptions record. Now he's 4 games into his second season with throw-in, Orton who just happens to be on pace for 6,000 yards.

Orton is not a top 5, 10 or even 15 talent. He's just not. He's a rich man's Garrard. Not even a Pennington. You think McGenius is going to have problems working with Tebow?



HE TURNED MATT CASSEL INTO STEVE YOUNG

He created Tom Brady out of thin air? Wow, Josh McDaniels must have been AMAZING if he's getting credit for making Tom Brady great... back when he was a defensive coaching assistant. McDaniels didn't become New England's QB coach until 2004. By that point, Tom Brady already had two SB MVP awards and a pair of top-10 fantasy finishes.

 

[SSOG]

Isn't everyone forgetting Brady Quinn? Isn't Brady Quinn breathing down Orton's neck? If Orton comes out and throws a couple of picks against the Ravens, I bet the reigns get handed to Brady...

Brady Quinn has been terrible in Denver and has already lost the #2 job to Tebow.

 

[Football Jones]

In short, Orton isn't as good as his numbers would indicate. That said, he's turned into a nice QB, albeit one with some limitations.

If Tebow develops like I think he will, you're eventually going to have a QB controversy. You may as well write it in stone, LOL. What Tebow brings is a stronger arm & much more athleticism.

I believe Tebow is going to be one helluva FF QB in McDaniels' system (if McDaniels is still there).

Out of curiosity, what do you see as Orton's limitations?

If Tebow develops like I think he will, you're eventually going to have a QB controversy. You may as well write it in stone, LOL. What Tebow brings is a stronger arm & much more athleticism.

he does??

Yes.

You don't think Orton has limitations? Without going into a detailed scouting report, I think Orton is a smart QB with mediocre arm strength & limited athleticism. Those kind of guys are generally career backups unless their intangibles are really good. Orton has made the most of his opportunity, but he's not the type of QB who can carry an offense. However, he's basically been doing just that & has held up suprisingly well, although, he's more a product of a QB-friendly system. A prospect like Tebow will eventually be a better player assuming he develops like I think he will. There's just so much more you can do with Tebow's tools.

 

[Raider Nation]

Isn't everyone forgetting Brady Quinn? Isn't Brady Quinn breathing down Orton's neck? If Orton comes out and throws a couple of picks against the Ravens, I bet the reigns get handed to Brady...

Brady Quinn has been terrible in Denver and has already lost the #2 job to Tebow.

WOOSH, as the kids like to say...

 

[Mile High]

Isn't everyone forgetting Brady Quinn? Isn't Brady Quinn breathing down Orton's neck? If Orton comes out and throws a couple of picks against the Ravens, I bet the reigns get handed to Brady...

 

[az_prof]

I agree. Orton is playing lights out. Why think about making a change until you have to?That being said, those of us with Tebow on their dynasty roster: is it time to cut him if a decent prospect comes along? I thought about cutting him to sign Max Hall. And I am kicking myself now because I cut Vick this summer in order to have the spot to draft Tebow. I can see making the sacrifices to keep a prospect on your bench until he develops, but I honestly thought it would be next year when we would see what Tebow could do and maybe even the end of this season if the team tanked. Now, it is looking like it could be years before Tebow starts, if ever. Jettison him? Or wait a year?

If you were a True Believer, then this is the time to buy. Don't be the guy who cut Philip Rivers when Drew Brees started playing well, or the guy who cut Aaron Rodgers when Favre was refusing to retire.If you were never a True Believer... well, then what was Tebow ever doing on your roster in the first place? If you took him in the 3rd round, then go ahead and cut bait now, but most people had to burn a late 1st or early 2nd on him, and it's too early to cut bait on that.

Good analysis. TBH, I am not a True Believer and I got him in the late third as a BPA. But you're right--if you spent a first for sure and even a second, then you wait. Orton is a QB, and lately, QBs get hurt pretty often in the NFL. That means that even if Orton is a franchise QB that sometime in the next year or two Tebow may get a chance for an injury start. And if he lights it up, then his value will only go up. So...I think you waive him if you could a WR like Mark Clayton, but not for Steve Johnson.

 

[Runningman]

Isn't everyone forgetting Brady Quinn? Isn't Brady Quinn breathing down Orton's neck? If Orton comes out and throws a couple of picks against the Ravens, I bet the reigns get handed to Brady...

no offense but this has to be the dumbest thing I have ever read on the interwebs. My IQ dropped for having read it. I hope ignorance doen't rub off. I swould beat my head against a wall if not told not to. And this thing looks like the baby from South park. Answer to questions, Yes, No, NO again.

 

[Ghost Rider]

No way does Tebow get on the field if Orton keeps playing this well in that spread offense (except for maybe a few gadget plays here and there). I am still not sold on Tebow being a legit NFL QB, and Orton is playing well in this system, so why mess with that?

 

[plyka]

Kyle Orton has looked pretty good so far this year and seems to be coming into his own as a legit NFL QB. How does this affect Tebow for not only this year, but the future as well? Tebow was brought in to be thee man eventually, but if Orton stays on track, can they really afford not to play Orton? Just wondering how others think this may pan out.

The Broncos would be absolute knumbsculls if they allow Orton to get away. I mean, it would be one of the dumbest moves I can ever think about. Why allow a potential STUD QB, who has now proved he is an NFL QB, and may just be moving into ELITE category, for Tebow who is most likely going to FAIL. Tebow is just NOT an NFL quarterback. This isn't Jake Locker, who actually has a chance, this is Tebow, who i just cannot see being a successful NFL quarterback. And why take the chance when you have Orton?The Broncos would be very smart to hold on to Orton. Trade Tebow away if anything.

 

[Jambi]

Guys, take it down a notch. He's had a good start to the season. He's historically an average quarterback who is good at avoiding mistakes. He doesn't carry a team on his shoulders like elite quarterbacks do. Remember when Derek Anderson was elite? How bout Grossman to Berrian? Remember the beginning of that season? "Grossman is coming around". We know how that worked out. We have a decent sample size to look at Orton but we're choosing to look at 4 games?

Lets see him finish the season with great numbers before we start tossing the elite tag around.

 

[SSOG]

You don't think Orton has limitations? Without going into a detailed scouting report, I think Orton is a smart QB with mediocre arm strength & limited athleticism. Those kind of guys are generally career backups unless their intangibles are really good.

Orton has made the most of his opportunity, but he's not the type of QB who can carry an offense. However, he's basically been doing just that & has held up suprisingly well, although, he's more a product of a QB-friendly system. A prospect like Tebow will eventually be a better player assuming he develops like I think he will. There's just so much more you can do with Tebow's tools.

I never said that I didn't think Orton had limitations. I just asked what you thought his limitations were.

The Broncos would be absolute knumbsculls if they allow Orton to get away. I mean, it would be one of the dumbest moves I can ever think about. Why allow a potential STUD QB, who has now proved he is an NFL QB, and may just be moving into ELITE category, for Tebow who is most likely going to FAIL. Tebow is just NOT an NFL quarterback. This isn't Jake Locker, who actually has a chance, this is Tebow, who i just cannot see being a successful NFL quarterback. And why take the chance when you have Orton?

The Broncos would be very smart to hold on to Orton. Trade Tebow away if anything.

Jake Locker? Seriously? Have you seen him play at all this season? It's Jevon Snead all over again.

Guys, take it down a notch. He's had a good start to the season. He's historically an average quarterback who is good at avoiding mistakes. He doesn't carry a team on his shoulders like elite quarterbacks do. Remember when Derek Anderson was elite? How bout Grossman to Berrian? Remember the beginning of that season? "Grossman is coming around". We know how that worked out. We have a decent sample size to look at Orton but we're choosing to look at 4 games?

Lets see him finish the season with great numbers before we start tossing the elite tag around.

Historically an average QB? Orton is 27 years old. He isn't really historically anything. He was positively brutal when he was forced into the starting job too early as a rookie, but then he got to go back to the bench and develop a bit more, and since then it's been a long and steady upward trend. His completion percentage has risen every single season for 5 straight years now. His YPA has risen every single season for 5 straight years now. His INT% is pretty much dropped for 5 straight years now. His TD% rose for four straight seasons, although it's dropped a touch through the early going this season. His QB Rating has risen for 5 straight seasons. His YPG has risen for 5 straight seasons. His ANYA has risen for 5 straight seasons. His DVOA has risen for 5 straight seasons. Pretty much every major statistic that a QB is measured by has risen steadily for 5 straight seasons.It's crazy how you can get a guy like Eli Manning who remained totally stagnant for 4 years and then had a fluky-good year in year 5, and everyone's quick to talk about what an amazing breakout it was and how he's the next big thing at QB... and then you get a guy like Kyle Orton who has shown steady, relentless, inexorable improvement for 5 straight years, and people are still treating him like he's the same guy he was 2 years ago.

I do agree that we should let him finish the season before calling him an elite QB, but I don't think there's any word that can describe Orton's quality of play through 4 weeks other than "elite".

 

[BRONG]

I do agree that we should let him finish the season before calling him an elite QB, but I don't think there's any word that can describe Orton's quality of play through 4 weeks other than "elite".

Again, if he can't beat the Colts' defense in his own backyard, then that is not elite. How did Garrard do against them again? Wins, with like a 130 QB rating. And the other games in your sample don't exactly inspire. Jacksonville and Seattle, two of the worst teams in the league. Let's not get too excited over the Titans victory folks.

 

[Dismattle]

I imagine it be something if MN looked into acquring Orton. <--extra payback for Farve by his buddy Moss. Im not so sure they do that to T. Jackson though

Im pretty sure SSOG already nailed the questions/stated the facts.

btw great game commin up: last yr 6-0 and Balt derailed em (If Balt can tear into em, maybe Orton gets a breather) Thats about only chance I see for Tebow this season. Im pretty sure TENN has a better pass rush/ secondary, so should be fun to watch a possible shootout!

 

[Football Jones]

You don't think Orton has limitations? Without going into a detailed scouting report, I think Orton is a smart QB with mediocre arm strength & limited athleticism. Those kind of guys are generally career backups unless their intangibles are really good.

Orton has made the most of his opportunity, but he's not the type of QB who can carry an offense. However, he's basically been doing just that & has held up suprisingly well, although, he's more a product of a QB-friendly system. A prospect like Tebow will eventually be a better player assuming he develops like I think he will. There's just so much more you can do with Tebow's tools.

I never said that I didn't think Orton had limitations. I just asked what you thought his limitations were.

The Broncos would be absolute knumbsculls if they allow Orton to get away. I mean, it would be one of the dumbest moves I can ever think about. Why allow a potential STUD QB, who has now proved he is an NFL QB, and may just be moving into ELITE category, for Tebow who is most likely going to FAIL. Tebow is just NOT an NFL quarterback. This isn't Jake Locker, who actually has a chance, this is Tebow, who i just cannot see being a successful NFL quarterback. And why take the chance when you have Orton?

The Broncos would be very smart to hold on to Orton. Trade Tebow away if anything.

Jake Locker? Seriously? Have you seen him play at all this season? It's Jevon Snead all over again.

Guys, take it down a notch. He's had a good start to the season. He's historically an average quarterback who is good at avoiding mistakes. He doesn't carry a team on his shoulders like elite quarterbacks do. Remember when Derek Anderson was elite? How bout Grossman to Berrian? Remember the beginning of that season? "Grossman is coming around". We know how that worked out. We have a decent sample size to look at Orton but we're choosing to look at 4 games?

Lets see him finish the season with great numbers before we start tossing the elite tag around.

Historically an average QB? Orton is 27 years old. He isn't really historically anything. He was positively brutal when he was forced into the starting job too early as a rookie, but then he got to go back to the bench and develop a bit more, and since then it's been a long and steady upward trend. His completion percentage has risen every single season for 5 straight years now. His YPA has risen every single season for 5 straight years now. His INT% is pretty much dropped for 5 straight years now. His TD% rose for four straight seasons, although it's dropped a touch through the early going this season. His QB Rating has risen for 5 straight seasons. His YPG has risen for 5 straight seasons. His ANYA has risen for 5 straight seasons. His DVOA has risen for 5 straight seasons. Pretty much every major statistic that a QB is measured by has risen steadily for 5 straight seasons.It's crazy how you can get a guy like Eli Manning who remained totally stagnant for 4 years and then had a fluky-good year in year 5, and everyone's quick to talk about what an amazing breakout it was and how he's the next big thing at QB... and then you get a guy like Kyle Orton who has shown steady, relentless, inexorable improvement for 5 straight years, and people are still treating him like he's the same guy he was 2 years ago.

I do agree that we should let him finish the season before calling him an elite QB, but I don't think there's any word that can describe Orton's quality of play through 4 weeks other than "elite".

I was asking you the question. BTW, I'll have to disagree with you regarding Orton. While Orton has nice stats, he's simply not anywhere near an elite QB, IMO. Sometimes the lines blur between FF, stats, & the real world. Denver throws a ton so the stats will be there as long as Orton gets good protection. Remember, he's in an extremely effective & QB-friendly passing offense. He's played well, but he has warts that will never go away. Orton just doesn't have enough intangibles to be considered elite given his limitations.

I believe this will be proven out in time. I need to see a lot more to convince me he's an elite QB, but we'll see what happens. Orton also plays two tough Ds the next couple weeks so it'll be interesting to see how he fares.

 

[Kilgore]

Isn't everyone forgetting Brady Quinn? Isn't Brady Quinn breathing down Orton's neck? If Orton comes out and throws a couple of picks against the Ravens, I bet the reigns get handed to Brady...

no offense but this has to be the dumbest thing I have ever read on the interwebs. My IQ dropped for having read it. I hope ignorance doen't rub off. I swould beat my head against a wall if not told not to. And this thing looks like the baby from South park. Answer to questions, Yes, No, NO again.

Thanks, Fellas. I had just traded for Orton, and was looking for reassurance.

 

[switz]

BTW, I'll have to disagree with you regarding Orton. While Orton has nice stats, he's simply not anywhere near an elite QB, IMO. Sometimes the lines blur between FF, stats, & the real world. Denver throws a ton so the stats will be there as long as Orton gets good protection. Remember, he's in an extremely effective & QB-friendly passing offense. He's played well, but he has warts that will never go away. Orton just doesn't have enough intangibles to be considered elite given his limitations.

actually, this is a flawed way of thinking. In reality, the more attempts Orton has, the WORSE he should look per attempt. He's not a coin with a 50-50 shot of being good or bad. If he's got "warts" and is "lacking intangibles" then with each pass attempt there would be a greater likelihood of a bad play, and the stats would be bad. But they aren't, which disproved your assertion.I wont argue that Orton isn't in a QB friendly system, nor that McDaniels isn't a great QB coach. But Orton was showing progress in his development in Chicago, which is god-awful at developing QBs. So I would tend to put more of Ortons success on Orton than the system.Interesting to note that Orton is doing this without a running game, with journeyman junk at WR, and a substandard OL. Yet while everyone wants to excuse other QBs for that, they ignore it in Ortons case and try to make it seem like his "stellar" offensive cast carries him.

 

[Football Jones]

BTW, I'll have to disagree with you regarding Orton. While Orton has nice stats, he's simply not anywhere near an elite QB, IMO. Sometimes the lines blur between FF, stats, & the real world. Denver throws a ton so the stats will be there as long as Orton gets good protection. Remember, he's in an extremely effective & QB-friendly passing offense. He's played well, but he has warts that will never go away. Orton just doesn't have enough intangibles to be considered elite given his limitations.

actually, this is a flawed way of thinking. In reality, the more attempts Orton has, the WORSE he should look per attempt. He's not a coin with a 50-50 shot of being good or bad. If he's got "warts" and is "lacking intangibles" then with each pass attempt there would be a greater likelihood of a bad play, and the stats would be bad. But they aren't, which disproved your assertion.I wont argue that Orton isn't in a QB friendly system, nor that McDaniels isn't a great QB coach. But Orton was showing progress in his development in Chicago, which is god-awful at developing QBs. So I would tend to put more of Ortons success on Orton than the system.Interesting to note that Orton is doing this without a running game, with journeyman junk at WR, and a substandard OL. Yet while everyone wants to excuse other QBs for that, they ignore it in Ortons case and try to make it seem like his "stellar" offensive cast carries him.

You're missing my point. They throw a ton, so if he gets good protection like I mentioned, & he's playing fairly well like he has been (which I alluded to), the stats will absolutely be there (short-term, anyway).My premise is his limitations will prevent him from being an elite QB over the long-haul. I totally disagree with people saying he's elite because of what he's done prior to this season & the 4 games this year. He's got eons to go before he proves he's an elite QB, IMO. I'm confident Tebow will be their QB by/during 2012, whether that's because he flat out wins the job or because the offense doesn't get to the next level with Orton. And if McDaniels is still there when Tebow gets his shot, I love his chances to be a monster in that offense.

 

[switz]

BTW, I'll have to disagree with you regarding Orton. While Orton has nice stats, he's simply not anywhere near an elite QB, IMO. Sometimes the lines blur between FF, stats, & the real world. Denver throws a ton so the stats will be there as long as Orton gets good protection. Remember, he's in an extremely effective & QB-friendly passing offense. He's played well, but he has warts that will never go away. Orton just doesn't have enough intangibles to be considered elite given his limitations.

actually, this is a flawed way of thinking. In reality, the more attempts Orton has, the WORSE he should look per attempt. He's not a coin with a 50-50 shot of being good or bad. If he's got "warts" and is "lacking intangibles" then with each pass attempt there would be a greater likelihood of a bad play, and the stats would be bad. But they aren't, which disproved your assertion.I wont argue that Orton isn't in a QB friendly system, nor that McDaniels isn't a great QB coach. But Orton was showing progress in his development in Chicago, which is god-awful at developing QBs. So I would tend to put more of Ortons success on Orton than the system.Interesting to note that Orton is doing this without a running game, with journeyman junk at WR, and a substandard OL. Yet while everyone wants to excuse other QBs for that, they ignore it in Ortons case and try to make it seem like his "stellar" offensive cast carries him.

You're missing my point. They throw a ton, so if he gets good protection like I mentioned, & he's playing fairly well like he has been (which I alluded to), the stats will absolutely be there (short-term, anyway).My premise is his limitations will prevent him from being an elite QB over the long-haul. I totally disagree with people saying he's elite because of what he's done prior to this season & the 4 games this year. He's got eons to go before he proves he's an elite QB, IMO. I'm confident Tebow will be their QB by 2012, whether that's because he flat out wins the job or because the offense doesn't get to the next level with Orton. And if McDaniels is still there when Tebow gets his shot, I love his chances to be a monster in that offense.

No you're missing the point. If Orton is a bad QB as you assert, with more passes there's greater likelihood of incompletions and interceptions. That's not happening, because Orton is actually becoming a pretty darn good QB.Tebow has a LOT to work on before getting to Ortons level. He may take as long as Orton has to develop.I'm not saying Orton is elite, but IMO there are only 2 elite QBs in the NFL right now. Orton is probably in the top-10 though. He's a leader, has more intangibles than most QBs, can make all the throws, doesn't get rattled, he does everything you'd ask a QB to do.

 

[Football Jones]

BTW, I'll have to disagree with you regarding Orton. While Orton has nice stats, he's simply not anywhere near an elite QB, IMO. Sometimes the lines blur between FF, stats, & the real world. Denver throws a ton so the stats will be there as long as Orton gets good protection. Remember, he's in an extremely effective & QB-friendly passing offense. He's played well, but he has warts that will never go away. Orton just doesn't have enough intangibles to be considered elite given his limitations.

actually, this is a flawed way of thinking. In reality, the more attempts Orton has, the WORSE he should look per attempt. He's not a coin with a 50-50 shot of being good or bad. If he's got "warts" and is "lacking intangibles" then with each pass attempt there would be a greater likelihood of a bad play, and the stats would be bad. But they aren't, which disproved your assertion.I wont argue that Orton isn't in a QB friendly system, nor that McDaniels isn't a great QB coach. But Orton was showing progress in his development in Chicago, which is god-awful at developing QBs. So I would tend to put more of Ortons success on Orton than the system.Interesting to note that Orton is doing this without a running game, with journeyman junk at WR, and a substandard OL. Yet while everyone wants to excuse other QBs for that, they ignore it in Ortons case and try to make it seem like his "stellar" offensive cast carries him.

You're missing my point. They throw a ton, so if he gets good protection like I mentioned, & he's playing fairly well like he has been (which I alluded to), the stats will absolutely be there (short-term, anyway).My premise is his limitations will prevent him from being an elite QB over the long-haul. I totally disagree with people saying he's elite because of what he's done prior to this season & the 4 games this year. He's got eons to go before he proves he's an elite QB, IMO. I'm confident Tebow will be their QB by 2012, whether that's because he flat out wins the job or because the offense doesn't get to the next level with Orton. And if McDaniels is still there when Tebow gets his shot, I love his chances to be a monster in that offense.

No you're missing the point. If Orton is a bad QB as you assert, with more passes there's greater likelihood of incompletions and interceptions. That's not happening, because Orton is actually becoming a pretty darn good QB.Tebow has a LOT to work on before getting to Ortons level. He may take as long as Orton has to develop.I'm not saying Orton is elite, but IMO there are only 2 elite QBs in the NFL right now. Orton is probably in the top-10 though. He's a leader, has more intangibles than most QBs, can make all the throws, doesn't get rattled, he does everything you'd ask a QB to do.

I know what you're saying...believe me, LOL. But my point is they throw a ton, he's playing fairly well right now (this is key to my point), & they have a great passing scheme. The stats WILL be there (short-term).Long-term? Not happening, IMO. I believe Tebow will be their starter by/during 2012.

 

[SSOG]

I was asking you the question.

BTW, I'll have to disagree with you regarding Orton. While Orton has nice stats, he's simply not anywhere near an elite QB, IMO. Sometimes the lines blur between FF, stats, & the real world. Denver throws a ton so the stats will be there as long as Orton gets good protection. Remember, he's in an extremely effective & QB-friendly passing offense. He's played well, but he has warts that will never go away. Orton just doesn't have enough intangibles to be considered elite given his limitations.

I believe this will be proven out in time. I need to see a lot more to convince me he's an elite QB, but we'll see what happens. Orton also plays two tough Ds the next couple weeks so it'll be interesting to see how he fares.

To be honest, my opinion that his play has been elite so far wasn't based on his stats. I didn't even realize just how good his stats were until I was checking earlier this week because of this thread. My belief that his play has been elite is based on the way he's been constantly moving his team down the field despite a patchwork offensive line, the worst running game in the league, and a WR corps that doesn't exactly inspire confidence. He's also been borrowing a page from the playbook of the three best QBs in the NFL right now (Manning, Brees, and Brady), in that in every game his #1 WR has been "whoever's open", not "whoever's listed at the top of the depth chart".

 

[switz]

BTW, I'll have to disagree with you regarding Orton. While Orton has nice stats, he's simply not anywhere near an elite QB, IMO. Sometimes the lines blur between FF, stats, & the real world. Denver throws a ton so the stats will be there as long as Orton gets good protection. Remember, he's in an extremely effective & QB-friendly passing offense. He's played well, but he has warts that will never go away. Orton just doesn't have enough intangibles to be considered elite given his limitations.

actually, this is a flawed way of thinking. In reality, the more attempts Orton has, the WORSE he should look per attempt. He's not a coin with a 50-50 shot of being good or bad. If he's got "warts" and is "lacking intangibles" then with each pass attempt there would be a greater likelihood of a bad play, and the stats would be bad. But they aren't, which disproved your assertion.I wont argue that Orton isn't in a QB friendly system, nor that McDaniels isn't a great QB coach. But Orton was showing progress in his development in Chicago, which is god-awful at developing QBs. So I would tend to put more of Ortons success on Orton than the system.Interesting to note that Orton is doing this without a running game, with journeyman junk at WR, and a substandard OL. Yet while everyone wants to excuse other QBs for that, they ignore it in Ortons case and try to make it seem like his "stellar" offensive cast carries him.

You're missing my point. They throw a ton, so if he gets good protection like I mentioned, & he's playing fairly well like he has been (which I alluded to), the stats will absolutely be there (short-term, anyway).My premise is his limitations will prevent him from being an elite QB over the long-haul. I totally disagree with people saying he's elite because of what he's done prior to this season & the 4 games this year. He's got eons to go before he proves he's an elite QB, IMO. I'm confident Tebow will be their QB by 2012, whether that's because he flat out wins the job or because the offense doesn't get to the next level with Orton. And if McDaniels is still there when Tebow gets his shot, I love his chances to be a monster in that offense.

No you're missing the point. If Orton is a bad QB as you assert, with more passes there's greater likelihood of incompletions and interceptions. That's not happening, because Orton is actually becoming a pretty darn good QB.Tebow has a LOT to work on before getting to Ortons level. He may take as long as Orton has to develop.I'm not saying Orton is elite, but IMO there are only 2 elite QBs in the NFL right now. Orton is probably in the top-10 though. He's a leader, has more intangibles than most QBs, can make all the throws, doesn't get rattled, he does everything you'd ask a QB to do.

I know what you're saying...believe me, LOL. But my point is they throw a ton, he's playing fairly well right now (this is key to my point), & they have a great passing scheme. The stats WILL be there (short-term).Long-term? Not happening, IMO. I believe Tebow will be their starter by/during 2012.

The problem still is - the more they throw, the worse Orton should look if he's as bad as you say he is... There's no way around that... If he looked good on a few attempts, so what, but he's had opportunity after opportunity to screw up, and he hasn't.