Martyball no more? (1 Viewer)

[BoltBacker]

Wow, I can't believe people think the '06 team is nearly as good as this team - I'm with MT. The run defense was certainly better back then, as was the running game. But Philip Rivers wore a Trent Dilfer costume all year, and the wideouts were McCardell and Eric Parker. I'd put the Charger passing game up against anyone in football (yes, even the Saints) and the Charger secondary and LB core is much, MUCH better IMO. Rivers is light years ahead of where he was in '06, to the point where he's a top 3 MVP candidate.This wouldn't even be close of Jamal was healthy.

I'd say the biggest area of improvement is WR obviously but I completely disagree with regard to the LB's. I'm a big fan of Siler but as a group they aren't nearly as good as '06.Both the OL and DL were more consistent in '06 imo.As to Rivers I think the offensive backfield was much better that year overall...06 Rivers/Tomlinson/Turner/Neal >>> 09 Rivers/Tomlinson/Sproles/HesterDB's is close.... people forget how well Florence played that year because of the NE game. Jammer is better now then he was then though.

 

[Polar Dude]

DB's is close.... people forget how well Florence played that year because of the NE game.

Same story with Marlon McCree. He was really the gel of that secondary and made some of the other guys look better than they were, but then he did something mind-boggling stupid in the playoffs and that's the only impression we are left of him.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

What happened? When Marty left there was certainly a "Super Bowl or Bust" mentality with the Charger fans. The perception was the Bolts where a great team and Marty was holding them back. Now jump forward a few years Chargers fans seem thrilled to just be in contention.

There was no "Super Bowl or Bust" mentality. There was a "let's win some playoff games" mentality, since at that time they hadn't won a playoff game since 1994. Norv's teams have won playoff games each year, and hopefully will do so again.

please. charger fan was FREAKED out with marty at the helm because y'all weren't going deep into the playoffs. aka superbowl or bust

 

[Polar Dude]

What happened? When Marty left there was certainly a "Super Bowl or Bust" mentality with the Charger fans. The perception was the Bolts where a great team and Marty was holding them back. Now jump forward a few years Chargers fans seem thrilled to just be in contention.

There was no "Super Bowl or Bust" mentality. There was a "let's win some playoff games" mentality, since at that time they hadn't won a playoff game since 1994. Norv's teams have won playoff games each year, and hopefully will do so again.

please. charger fan was FREAKED out with marty at the helm because y'all weren't going deep into the playoffs. aka superbowl or bust

Are you actually trying to argue by telling someone what they really thought? Unless you have some sort of link that gives evidence to the collective mindset of the majority of Charger fans, you may want to refrain from this line of discussion.

 

[trader jake]

It's amazing this thread keeps coming back when you think it's dead.

winning in the playoffs is all that matter isnt it? Who cares about regular season records if you get in the playoffs and win?

I will trade they inconsistent yet highly competitive Chargers with 3 playoff wins over the past 12 months, over the great regular season one and done version.

Good thing Norv kicks fields goals much better than Schottenheimer did.

Norv gets the kicker closer, just like on Saturday, he dosen't settle for 45 yarders

Norv is still a horrible head coach.

 

[Wadsworth]

Dang, you bumped it before I could.

Wasn't it Brian SchottenHeimer that Marty wanted to hire that finally set Marty's firing in motion?

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Dang, you bumped it before I could. Wasn't it Brian SchottenHeimer that Marty wanted to hire that finally set Marty's firing in motion?

BINGO!!!Never thought of that story line till now, very good point Wads

 

[Two Deep]

Do horribly coached teams win 12 games in a row, I don't know just asking.

 

[laxiepoo]

No, but Norv was sure chanelling Martyball today, and we didn't have the RB corps to make it happen.

I blame CBS too for jinxing Kaeding twice, but despite his impressive regular season accolades, Nate Kaeding is not a clutch kicker by any stretch of the imagination. The 57 yarder wasn't his fault, and the field look slick as hell. But the other two misses are inexcusable for a 3rd-round pick in a tight game against an excellent defense.

 

[Polar Dude]

Wasn't it Brian SchottenHeimer that Marty wanted to hire that finally set Marty's firing in motion?

No, his son had already been on the Chargers' coaching staff and went to the Jets with Marty's blessing. After Marty encouraged just about every remaining guy on his staff to take any other job that was available, he thought he could add his brother and elevate him to a coordinator position, even though AJ had told him he wouldn't allow it.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

time to fire norv

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Wasn't it Brian SchottenHeimer that Marty wanted to hire that finally set Marty's firing in motion?

It was Kurt.

 

[trader jake]

Do horribly coached teams win 12 games in a row, I don't know just asking.

IT'S ALL ABOUT THE PLAYOFFS!!!!1!Signed,Myopic Charger fans that tried to tell us all Norv was just the man for the job in San Diego

 

[Tau837]

Do horribly coached teams win 12 games in a row, I don't know just asking.

IT'S ALL ABOUT THE PLAYOFFS!!!!1!Signed,Myopic Charger fans that tried to tell us all Norv was just the man for the job in San Diego

I remember a lot of Chargers fans saying Marty wasn't the man for the job. I don't remember anyone clamoring for Norv. That said, I did prefer Norv to Marty, and he's justified that, with 3 playoff wins in 3 years.I'd like to see some links to San Diego fans who said Norv was "just the man for the job in San Diego." Since you have the time to dredge up this thread, I'm sure you'll have no problem finding and posting those.

 

[Polar Dude]

I'd like to see some links to San Diego fans who said Norv was "just the man for the job in San Diego." Since you have the time to dredge up this thread, I'm sure you'll have no problem finding and posting those.

Seconded.

 

[trader jake]

I'd like to see some links to San Diego fans who said Norv was "just the man for the job in San Diego."

You posted in this same thread that you prefer Norv to Marty. "shrug" The way some of you Bolt homers have been talking up Norv's postseason wins (and bashing Marty) it sure sounded like you felt he was the right man for the job...just like A.J. Smith did. Firing Martyball in favor of Norv was a brutal decision because one can lead men and the other can't.At least when the Buccaneers did the same thing to Tony Dungy, a great regular season coach that "could never get it done in the postseason", they hired the right man and paid the price for Jon Gruden. The Chargers also paid the price but, unfortunately for Bolts homers, it was wasting years of supreme talent with Norv as the head coach. How you feel about the Raiders owner is how the Broncos, Chiefs, and Raiders fans feel about your head coach.

 

[Tau837]

I'd like to see some links to San Diego fans who said Norv was "just the man for the job in San Diego."

You posted in this same thread that you prefer Norv to Marty. "shrug" The way some of you Bolt homers have been talking up Norv's postseason wins (and bashing Marty) it sure sounded like you felt he was the right man for the job...just like A.J. Smith did. Firing Martyball in favor of Norv was a brutal decision because one can lead men and the other can't.At least when the Buccaneers did the same thing to Tony Dungy, a great regular season coach that "could never get it done in the postseason", they hired the right man and paid the price for Jon Gruden. The Chargers also paid the price but, unfortunately for Bolts homers, it was wasting years of supreme talent with Norv as the head coach. How you feel about the Raiders owner is how the Broncos, Chiefs, and Raiders fans feel about your head coach.

I just said in my last post that I prefer Norv to Marty. That's not the same thing as thinking Norv was the best man for the job. Better than Marty doesn't mean best.IMO Marty going and the hiring of his replacement were independent events. I was happy Marty was gone. I would have preferred a stronger replacement than Norv, but he has actually done a great job, better than I was expecting. He has the best regular season winning percentage of any coach in Chargers history and is tied with Bobby Ross for the best postseason winning percentage of any coach in Chargers history (Ross is also 3-3).I'm not saying Norv is an elite coach. But he gets more criticism than he deserves. Certainly, I think he deserves some blame for today's loss, no doubt about that... I was expecting a win. But it doesn't erase the 3 wins he coached the Chargers to in the previous two postseasons... the Chargers' first postseason wins since 1994.

 

[trader jake]

I'm not saying Norv is an elite coach. But he gets more criticism than he deserves. Certainly, I think he deserves some blame for today's loss, no doubt about that... I was expecting a win. But it doesn't erase the 3 wins he coached the Chargers to in the previous two postseasons... the Chargers' first postseason wins since 1994.

Everyone gets that Norv isn't an elite head coach, some don't believe he's an average head coach, and then there are some that don't think he should have been given another head coaching gig anywhere on an NFL sideline. Norv has benefited from brutal Chief and Raider teams and has parlayed that into solid postseason seeding and 3 postseason wins. Maybe Martyball wouldn't have accomplished that, who knows, but I'm of the opinion firing Marty was only justified if a better head coach was brought in. Firing Marty Shottenheimer in favor of Norv Turner is embarrassing and I'm glad that A.J. Smith hasn't been rewarded for his power play move with Martyball.I feel bad for Charger fans. Most on this board are intelligent FBG's that love their team and having to (somewhat) have Norv's back is really being put in that horrible of all places as an NFL fan...arguing for something as a homer that you don't believe in your heart to be true. Norv just isn't a leader of men, he's not a quality NFL head coach, and he'll never lead the Chargers to a Super Bowl title. I think Marty could have, if he and A.J. could have just played nice and did what was best for the team.

 

[Polar Dude]

Firing Marty Shottenheimer in favor of Norv Turner is embarrassing

This never happened. As JWB just pointed out, they were entirely separate events.

 

[BassNBrew]

Well in hindsight, the Chargers couldn't have been much worse with marty and could have been better.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

Well in hindsight, the Chargers couldn't have been much worse with marty and could have been better.

People keep pointing to his 0-2 record in the playoffs. If he were still coaching the team he'd have several playoffs wins now.

 

[Ghost Rider]

All I know is I have heard for years about how talented the Chargers are, they have the most talent in the league, and blah, blah, blah, yet they have zero Super Bowls to show for it. They don't even have a Super Bowl appearance! Clearly, the coaches they have had were unable to get it down, so rather than finding a new coach who can get them over the top, they are gonna stick with a coach who has shown he cannot get it done for another year. Brilliant. By the time they get around to getting a new coach, their window could be already closing.

 

[Tau837]

All I know is I have heard for years about how talented the Chargers are, they have the most talent in the league, and blah, blah, blah, yet they have zero Super Bowls to show for it. They don't even have a Super Bowl appearance! Clearly, the coaches they have had were unable to get it down, so rather than finding a new coach who can get them over the top, they are gonna stick with a coach who has shown he cannot get it done for another year. Brilliant. By the time they get around to getting a new coach, their window could be already closing.

The pinnacle of the Chargers' talent was in 2006, when Marty coached the 14-2 team... and they lost at home in the playoffs. Not that Pro Bowls are the greatest measure of talent, but they had these Pro Bowlers that season:RiversTomlinsonNealGatesMcNeillHardwickWilliamsMerrimanKaedingBinnTomlinson, Neal, Gates, Williams, and Merriman were all 1st team All Pro. As we all know, Tomlinson and Williams have gradually declined from there; Hardwick, McNeill, Williams, Merriman, and Gates have either had injuries, lost effectiveness, or both; and Neal was gone after 2007.Marty was the guy who couldn't get the uber-talented team over the top. Unless you want to blame Norv for those factors I just cited (which wouldn't surprise me based on the general Norv sentiment around here).

 

[trader jake]

Ryan gives game ball to Marty Schottenheimer link

Ryan gives game ball to Marty Schottenheimer

Father of Jets offensive coordinator was fired 3 years ago by Chargers

FLORHAM PARK, N.J. - Jets coach Rex Ryan sent a game ball to Marty Schottenheimer after New York’s playoff upset of San Diego.

The father of the Jets’ offensive coordinator, Schottenheimer was fired three years ago as coach of the Chargers following a 14-2 regular season.

Brian Schottenheimer said Thursday that he was touched when he learned of his boss’ gesture two days earlier — and joked that it didn’t even occur to him to do it.

Marty Schottenheimer was fired in February 2007 after the Chargers lost their first playoff game despite owning the NFL’s best record. He had 35 wins and two AFC West titles in his last three seasons in San Diego, where his son was quarterbacks coach from 2002-05.

Brian Schottenheimer said it “felt nice to pick up the phone after the game and talk to my father” following Sunday’s 17-14 win.

Too bad Shotty didn't land that Buffalo job but this story has (almost) come full circle with this story. He'll never say it but receiving that game ball must have been sweet for Marty.

 

[FlapJacks]

Ryan gives game ball to Marty Schottenheimer link

Ryan gives game ball to Marty Schottenheimer

Father of Jets offensive coordinator was fired 3 years ago by Chargers

FLORHAM PARK, N.J. - Jets coach Rex Ryan sent a game ball to Marty Schottenheimer after New York’s playoff upset of San Diego.

The father of the Jets’ offensive coordinator, Schottenheimer was fired three years ago as coach of the Chargers following a 14-2 regular season.

Brian Schottenheimer said Thursday that he was touched when he learned of his boss’ gesture two days earlier — and joked that it didn’t even occur to him to do it.

Marty Schottenheimer was fired in February 2007 after the Chargers lost their first playoff game despite owning the NFL’s best record. He had 35 wins and two AFC West titles in his last three seasons in San Diego, where his son was quarterbacks coach from 2002-05.

Brian Schottenheimer said it “felt nice to pick up the phone after the game and talk to my father” following Sunday’s 17-14 win.

Too bad Shotty didn't land that Buffalo job but this story has (almost) come full circle with this story. He'll never say it but receiving that game ball must have been sweet for Marty.

what an incredibly tacky thing for Rex Ryan to do....

 

[SSOG]

what an incredibly tacky thing for Rex Ryan to do....

Maybe, but at the same time, I'm sure it definitely scored some points with his offensive coordinator. I'm sure he cares more about motivating his employees than he does about being perceived as a classy guy.

 

[Polar Dude]

what an incredibly tacky thing for Rex Ryan to do....

Maybe, but at the same time, I'm sure it definitely scored some points with his offensive coordinator. I'm sure he cares more about motivating his employees than he does about being perceived as a classy guy.

Not only that, I think that entire Ryan class would consider it an insult to be called classy.

 

[SSOG]

Not only that, I think that entire Ryan class would consider it an insult to be called classy.

What do you mean? If this isn't the face of class and respectability, then I don't know what is.

 

[massraider]

what an incredibly tacky thing for Rex Ryan to do....

Maybe, but at the same time, I'm sure it definitely scored some points with his offensive coordinator. I'm sure he cares more about motivating his employees than he does about being perceived as a classy guy.

I think he might have been making a point as well.Marty may have had slightly better players in '06, but the lost to a much, much better team, and that loss wasn't his fault. The players lost that game, period. Marty can't make guys not do stupid ####.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

Marty seems like a better coach than Norv during the regular season. Norv seems like a better coach than Marty in the playoffs. Neither seems good enough to get this team to the Super Bowl. I think SD is stuck with Norv until the window closes and they rebuild.

 

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

what an incredibly tacky thing for Rex Ryan to do....

Maybe, but at the same time, I'm sure it definitely scored some points with his offensive coordinator. I'm sure he cares more about motivating his employees than he does about being perceived as a classy guy.

I think he might have been making a point as well.Marty may have had slightly better players in '06, but the lost to a much, much better team, and that loss wasn't his fault. The players lost that game, period. Marty can't make guys not do stupid ####.

That Patriot team was NOT better then the chargers. The D was forcing Brady mistakes and the O was moving. The chargers were controlling the game but stupid mistakes killed them. They also went away from the MVP LT in the second half who was gashing the Pats. It was a combo of idiot play and some bad coaching decisions.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Marty may have had slightly better players in '06, but the lost to a much, much better team, and that loss wasn't his fault. The players lost that game, period. Marty can't make guys not do stupid ####.

I disagree with that last statement. How disciplined a team is is a direct reflection of how well-coached they are. Not saying Schottenheimer doesn't know how to coach, as he clearly does, but I especially remember back in KC days, his players always play with that swagger and attitude to where they will do aggressively stupid things at times, which is what happened in that loss to NE, too. It is like he coaches players to be tough, but not necessarily to be tough and smart.

 

[massraider]

what an incredibly tacky thing for Rex Ryan to do....

Maybe, but at the same time, I'm sure it definitely scored some points with his offensive coordinator. I'm sure he cares more about motivating his employees than he does about being perceived as a classy guy.

I think he might have been making a point as well.Marty may have had slightly better players in '06, but the lost to a much, much better team, and that loss wasn't his fault. The players lost that game, period. Marty can't make guys not do stupid ####.

That Patriot team was NOT better then the chargers.

Nope, but they were a lot better than the 2009 Jets, and that's what I said.And going away from LT in the 2nd half is one thing, but Marty coached that team well enough to win, and dumb mistakes by the players cost them the game. That stupid personal foul, the S allowing the INT to be stripped, had a LOT, LOT more impact than some change in offense.

 

[massraider]

Marty may have had slightly better players in '06, but the lost to a much, much better team, and that loss wasn't his fault. The players lost that game, period. Marty can't make guys not do stupid ####.

I disagree with that last statement. How disciplined a team is is a direct reflection of how well-coached they are. Not saying Schottenheimer doesn't know how to coach, as he clearly does, but I especially remember back in KC days, his players always play with that swagger and attitude to where they will do aggressively stupid things at times, which is what happened in that loss to NE, too. It is like he coaches players to be tough, but not necessarily to be tough and smart.

No one called San Diego a dumb, poorly-coached team before that.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Marty may have had slightly better players in '06, but the lost to a much, much better team, and that loss wasn't his fault. The players lost that game, period. Marty can't make guys not do stupid ####.

I disagree with that last statement. How disciplined a team is is a direct reflection of how well-coached they are. Not saying Schottenheimer doesn't know how to coach, as he clearly does, but I especially remember back in KC days, his players always play with that swagger and attitude to where they will do aggressively stupid things at times, which is what happened in that loss to NE, too. It is like he coaches players to be tough, but not necessarily to be tough and smart.

No one called San Diego a dumb, poorly-coached team before that.

That is fine, but in that game, they were. When a whole team is acting that stupid and like they don't know how to handle the pressure of a big game, that is on the coaching staff for not preparing them well enough. I still remember watching that game and thinking how crazy it was watching the team that was supposedly clearly better implode right in front of my eyes.

 

[massraider]

Marty may have had slightly better players in '06, but the lost to a much, much better team, and that loss wasn't his fault. The players lost that game, period. Marty can't make guys not do stupid ####.

I disagree with that last statement. How disciplined a team is is a direct reflection of how well-coached they are. Not saying Schottenheimer doesn't know how to coach, as he clearly does, but I especially remember back in KC days, his players always play with that swagger and attitude to where they will do aggressively stupid things at times, which is what happened in that loss to NE, too. It is like he coaches players to be tough, but not necessarily to be tough and smart.

No one called San Diego a dumb, poorly-coached team before that.

That is fine, but in that game, they were. When a whole team is acting that stupid and like they don't know how to handle the pressure of a big game, that is on the coaching staff for not preparing them well enough. I still remember watching that game and thinking how crazy it was watching the team that was supposedly clearly better implode right in front of my eyes.

Then no player is ever responsible for his own actions. I don't believe that.If a team is undisciplined, it shows up before 17 games into a season. Take it from a Raiders fan. At some point, if a player does something stupid, it's his own damn fault.

Frankly, I thought Schotty's teams were always pretty professional. And if any other coach except Schotty had been coaching that Charger team, that coach would not have been scapegoated the way he was. That was a lifetime achievement firing for playoff failure for Marty, and I don't think anyone can point to any glaring coaching errors in that game. I remember comments after that game, and those stupid game-changing plays by those players all got forgiven because it must have somehow been the coaches fault.

hey, at the end of it all, it's just opinion. Maybe Marty could've coached the stupid out of the players. Maybe he could've told Earnest Byner not to fumble in CLE, and maybe players are occasionally responsible for their own actions.

 

[Polar Dude]

Then no player is ever responsible for his own actions. I don't believe that.

If one or two guys make mistakes that they wouldn't do ordinarily, you can say that they choked under pressure. When a quarter of the team behaves in a way that is completely uncharacteristic of their play, I think you have to look at the way the team was coached/prepared.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Then no player is ever responsible for his own actions. I don't believe that.

If one or two guys make mistakes that they wouldn't do ordinarily, you can say that they choked under pressure. When a quarter of the team behaves in a way that is completely uncharacteristic of their play, I think you have to look at the way the team was coached/prepared.

Bingo.

 

[trader jake]

I think SD is stuck with Norv until the window closes and they rebuild.

This thread would seem to indicate the EXACT OPPOSITE. The Chargers proved just three short years ago they they would not be "stuck" with a head coach. That makes the (post playoff loss) Norv Turner contract extension all the more surprising.

 

[Tau837]

I think SD is stuck with Norv until the window closes and they rebuild.

This thread would seem to indicate the EXACT OPPOSITE. The Chargers proved just three short years ago they they would not be "stuck" with a head coach. That makes the (post playoff loss) Norv Turner contract extension all the more surprising.

What is surprising about it? Norv has the best regular season winning percentage in Chargers history. He is tied with Bobby Ross for the best postseason winning percentage in Chargers history. His Chargers teams have won the division and made the playoffs in all three of his seasons. And he has done these things while the talent on the roster has declined... there is no doubt the roster today is less talented than the roster was in 2006. Norv has done a good job in San Diego.

 

[trader jake]

I think SD is stuck with Norv until the window closes and they rebuild.

This thread would seem to indicate the EXACT OPPOSITE. The Chargers proved just three short years ago they they would not be "stuck" with a head coach. That makes the (post playoff loss) Norv Turner contract extension all the more surprising.

What is surprising about it? Norv has the best regular season winning percentage in Chargers history. He is tied with Bobby Ross for the best postseason winning percentage in Chargers history. His Chargers teams have won the division and made the playoffs in all three of his seasons. And he has done these things while the talent on the roster has declined... there is no doubt the roster today is less talented than the roster was in 2006. Norv has done a good job in San Diego.

The Raiders and Chiefs have been garbage the last three seasons and the Broncos dumped their long-time head coach. Let's say the Chargers and Redskins swapped divisions over the last three seasons...how confident would you be in Norv Turner led team? Considering we already know the answer because he had seven years in DC and only led his team to the postseason once in a competitive division.Hey, one must give Turner credit for winning the games he has in San Diego over the past three seasons but I think any competent head coach would have a great overall record against the competition the Chargers faced. Since Norv Turner hasn't gotten this team to a Super Bowl in his three years I fail to see why he warranted a contract extension after a 13-3 season and a playoff loss when Shottenheimer was shown the door after his 14-2 season. Shotty's teams looks physical and I think he would have led them to a Super Bowl in the last three years...I don't believe Norv Turner can lead any team to a title, ever.Charger fans are trapped with great talent and huge expectations but without a head coach that can genuinely lead men. This team won't win the big one and the window is only closing with Turner at the helm. Firing Shotty was weak but if A.J. Smith had hired the right man for the job nobody would have remembered. Hiring Norv Turner wasn't an inspiring move and it hasn't resulted in a Super Bowl appearance. When a team fires a head coach that helped build the culture, the toughness of the team, and leads them to a 14-2 season the next head coach better get that team to the Super Bowl and Turner hasn't in three seasons.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Turner has definitely been helped by coaching a team in the AFC West, which has been pretty mediocre the last few years. I'll give him credit for the three playoff wins, but that is a team was ready for a Super Bowl run, and he has yet to get them there in three seasons.

Also, JWB, I don't think being tied for having the best postseason record is something worth mentioning when .500 is the highest bar you have to jump over. And let's remember that one of those division titles was an 8-8 season.

 

[Polar Dude]

The Raiders and Chiefs have been garbage the last three seasons and the Broncos dumped their long-time head coach. Let's say the Chargers and Redskins swapped divisions over the last three seasons...how confident would you be in Norv Turner led team?

Didn't the Chargers just sweep that division this year?

 

[Tau837]

The Raiders and Chiefs have been garbage the last three seasons and the Broncos dumped their long-time head coach. Let's say the Chargers and Redskins swapped divisions over the last three seasons...how confident would you be in Norv Turner led team?

Is this a trick question? I'd be very confident if the Chargers were moved to the NFC East. The Chargers swept the NFC East this season.

Considering we already know the answer because he had seven years in DC and only led his team to the postseason once in a competitive division.

Norv took over a lousy team in Washington and was saddled with bad management. Just look at how Washington has done since he left. They are 63-84 since Norv left. In 9 seasons since he was fired, the Redskins have gone through 4 head coaches and have had winning records in just 2 of 9 seasons. Turner had winning records in 4 of his last 5 seasons in Washington (albeit barely).I'm not saying he shouldn't have done a better job in Washington. But comparing how he performed for the Redskins and how he is performing for the Chargers is apples and oranges.

Hey, one must give Turner credit for winning the games he has in San Diego over the past three seasons but I think any competent head coach would have a great overall record against the competition the Chargers faced.

I don't think the schedule has been as easy as you make it out to be. The Chargers played 7 games this year against teams that finished with losing records... 5 last year... and 9 in 2007. So 21 of his 48 regular season games as Chargers head coach were against teams that finished with a losing record. I doubt that total is all that unusual, but it would be interesting to see.

Since Norv Turner hasn't gotten this team to a Super Bowl in his three years I fail to see why he warranted a contract extension after a 13-3 season and a playoff loss when Shottenheimer was shown the door after his 14-2 season. Shotty's teams looks physical and I think he would have led them to a Super Bowl in the last three years...I don't believe Norv Turner can lead any team to a title, ever.Charger fans are trapped with great talent and huge expectations but without a head coach that can genuinely lead men. This team won't win the big one and the window is only closing with Turner at the helm. Firing Shotty was weak but if A.J. Smith had hired the right man for the job nobody would have remembered. Hiring Norv Turner wasn't an inspiring move and it hasn't resulted in a Super Bowl appearance. When a team fires a head coach that helped build the culture, the toughness of the team, and leads them to a 14-2 season the next head coach better get that team to the Super Bowl and Turner hasn't in three seasons.

Agree to disagree on this. Rather than rehashing, all the reasons are already posted in this thread.

 

[Tau837]

Also, JWB, I don't think being tied for having the best postseason record is something worth mentioning when .500 is the highest bar you have to jump over.

It's a fact. To put it another way, the team had not won a playoff game for 13 seasons before Turner took over, and they won 3 postseason games in his first 2 seasons. Maybe it wouldn't be a big deal if you are a fan of the Patriots or Steelers, but for Chargers fans, it's a big deal.

And let's remember that one of those division titles was an 8-8 season.

It was really a 9-7 season (Hochuli).

 

[SSOG]

I don't think Norv has really done anything to warrant being fired (I mean in terms of actual results- I still think he's a bad coach and he should be fired at any given moment for that reason alone). Just because Shotty got fired when his results didn't warrant it doesn't mean the Chargers should suddenly fire EVERY coach whose results don't warrant it.

As for Norv being a good coach or not... I think the attitudes of the other AFC West fans really closes the book on this discussion. No matter how Chargers fans feel, the fact that the Raiders, Chiefs, and Broncos fans are pretty much UNANIMOUSLY glad that Norv is in charge in San Diego has to be pretty telling.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Also, JWB, I don't think being tied for having the best postseason record is something worth mentioning when .500 is the highest bar you have to jump over.

It's a fact.

But it's not a fact worth mentioning. I understand the frustration of having gone a long time since your last playoff win, but a .500 playoff record for a coach who still has an under .500 record as a NFL head coach is hardly someone to sneeze at. Like they always say, you are what your record is, and if Chargers fans think a guy who has a career head coaching winning percentage of .479 in 12 seasons is gonna lead them to the promised land, well then, good luck with that.

And let's remember that one of those division titles was an 8-8 season.

It was really a 9-7 season (Hochuli).

*cues the broken record*

 

[Polar Dude]

if Chargers fans think a guy who has a career head coaching winning percentage of .479 in 12 seasons is gonna lead them to the promised land, well then, good luck with that.

I don't think AJ or most Chargers fans are basing their evaluations of Norv on what he did with other teams, only on what he is doing with the Chargers.

 

[Tau837]

if Chargers fans think a guy who has a career head coaching winning percentage of .479 in 12 seasons is gonna lead them to the promised land, well then, good luck with that.

I don't think AJ or most Chargers fans are basing their evaluations of Norv on what he did with other teams, only on what he is doing with the Chargers.

 

[Ghost Rider]

if Chargers fans think a guy who has a career head coaching winning percentage of .479 in 12 seasons is gonna lead them to the promised land, well then, good luck with that.

I don't think AJ or most Chargers fans are basing their evaluations of Norv on what he did with other teams, only on what he is doing with the Chargers.

Okay then, is A.J. Smith happy with Turner's inability to get this alleged super talented team to the Super Bowl for three straight seasons now? And if the team isn't talented as it used to be, then that is Smith's fault, right? So is Smith holding himself accountable for failing to sustain the talent level, or will he hold Turner accountable for failing to get this team full of talent over the top? it appears he is doing neither.