Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine (1 Viewer)

[Andy Dufresne]

Three years ago we had mass riots across the country. Today Jewish people are being told to keep a low profile when they're out in public.

Do you think it's possible to have an honest discussion about gun control without talking about some of the reasons why people feel the need to arm themselves?

I agreee 100% - we absolutely need to understand and discuss why people are irrationally fearful, and how much easy access to firearms contribute to that fear.

Right on cue.

its on cue but hes not wrong take that to the bank bromigo

It's what I meant in my initial post.

When you start the conversation by questioning the sincerity of the motivations of the other side, you've ****ed compromise from the beginning.

 

[culdeus]

If anybody tells me they’re going to shoot anyone I’m not stopping until I’ve done everything to get that person help, locked up or both. I’m not releasing them under any circumstance.

Who made the decision to let him go? Blood is directly on their hands.

Yea this is the issue in our country. It's not the guns.

We lack common sense in our decisions as a society. We allow people access who should not have access......example, we had a perv teacher in our district moved around, tried to brush it under the rug......well now some kids are bringing a civil suit against him, **** is hitting the fan! No one wants to make the tough decision that is right......it's like when a parent doesn't do the tough thing with their kid on the front end......it becomes so much worse on the back end.

Our society is sick. We have people who don't want to work. Drugs are more accessible then they've ever been. We are allowing people who have bad intent to run rampant. We have lost our way, and I don't see it getting better.

yeah, but..... it's also the guns.

Gun have always been here.

Sure, and there have always been gun deaths and mass shootings too. There have also been big changes in guns throughout our history as well. We can't pretend we are talking about the exact same weapon as we were throughout all those years either.

Can't talk about the weapon selection either because reasons.

I'll say these shooters that can get ARs feel more powerful and confident. Roll in with a 9 even with same clip size doesn't have that same effect.

Lucky that nobody is trying that bump stock stuff that the Vegas guy used.

I think addressed your first point already. These guns have been around forever, you change the name but they’re all the same.

It isn’t the round so much as the velocity.

Nobody uses the bump stock because everyone knows full auto = not hitting a damn thing. They’re a toy. Virtually useless except for possible putting down suppressing or concentrating rounds on target.

A bowling alley seems like a place to lay down streams of fire. But fine. The movie theater guy had a drum. That also hasn't really shown up again.

I’m not understanding what you’re trying to convey.

To be clear, I’m not arguing with or against you. Just stating my thoughts.

On drums- Drums aren’t very reliable. (Jam easily and often)

I'm not really arguing or commenting at anyone in particular. It seems like that despite perhaps other killing tech being out there the pinnacle of this seems to be the AR weapon, and further advancements in round capacity or tech has not happened in any meaningful way.

That should be on the surface evidence that AR style weapons should have a very high bar to own.

It has sort of become a symbol of the 2A so it has to stay.

 

[Courtjester]

Mental illness is also not a new thing in the last few decades.

Couldn't disagree more.

I am surrounded by perfectly healthy adult coworkers who Absolutely Will Not Shut Up about much they're struggling with "mental well-being." This won't kick in for several years because we plan this way ahead, but we are going to start baking "mental health days" into our academic calendar so students don't have to sit through five days of class every week. (We get all the federal and state holidays too -- we're not one of those schools where classes are in session on Veterans Day or MLK Day).

These people don't have schizophrenia and they're not going to go on killing sprees, but they're depressed, neurotic, and anxious, and IMO they've mainly whipped themselves into this condition. It was not like this as recently as five years ago. This all changed practically overnight.

And to piggyback on this and not trying to sidetrack this thread, these "adults" are raising a whole generation of children that are inheriting/modeling these traits and upping the ante on them. My wife is a special ed coach and she coordinates the special ed teachers and helps set up the IEPs and staffings. In the last 3 years, they have had to hire 3 more of her because the number and level of severe kids coming in has exploded. She said she has never seen kids (especially elementary kids) that are this out of control. Kindergarten kids that the teacher has to watch all the time because they are runners and will just bolt. Autistic kids that do not speak English. She has a couple of deaf kids from Africa that are so violent they have been kicked out of every program they have been in and just sent back to public school because they can''t refuse them. Throw in the fact the schools have no money for one on ones and EA's and you have a perfect storm brewing for the future generations to come.

We need to take a hard look at our mental health system and find a way to do things better. This shooting should have never happened. Somebody had to have noticed something over the past few months since this guy was released from the facility. Surely some doctor or therapist was monitoring his meds or seeing him. I find it hard to believe he just was released from the facility without an aftercare plan--especially considering the level of threats he made while there. Oddly, this guy had a pretty health social media presence and at least 132 friends on one account.

 

[Scoresman]

With everyone seemingly owning guns to protect themselves, have any of these shootings had people shooting back? Honest question I dont know the answer to, but you'd think with all the mass shootings, someone would've shot back by now.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Three years ago we had mass riots across the country. Today Jewish people are being told to keep a low profile when they're out in public.

Do you think it's possible to have an honest discussion about gun control without talking about some of the reasons why people feel the need to arm themselves?

I agreee 100% - we absolutely need to understand and discuss why people are irrationally fearful, and how much easy access to firearms contribute to that fear.

Right on cue.

its on cue but hes not wrong take that to the bank bromigo

It's what I meant in my initial post.

When you start the conversation by questioning the sincerity of the motivations of the other side, you've ****ed compromise from the beginning.

Violent crime is half of what it was just 35 years ago, yet people are extremely fearful of violent crime and are purchasing more firearms to protect them. Is that rational?

 

[need2know]

With everyone seemingly owning guns to protect themselves, have any of these shootings had people shooting back? Honest question I dont know the answer to, but you'd think with all the mass shootings, someone would've shot back by now.

most people dont take their guns to the bowling alley. unless you are my friend Walter

 

[Scoresman]

With everyone seemingly owning guns to protect themselves, have any of these shootings had people shooting back? Honest question I dont know the answer to, but you'd think with all the mass shootings, someone would've shot back by now.

most people dont take their guns to the bowling alley. unless you are my friend Walter

So for all of the people who have guns "to protect themselves", what are they protecting themselves from if it's not this type of situation? I mean it always gets thrown out in these threads that people justify having guns to protect themselves from these situations, but that never really happens.

 

[need2know]

With everyone seemingly owning guns to protect themselves, have any of these shootings had people shooting back? Honest question I dont know the answer to, but you'd think with all the mass shootings, someone would've shot back by now.

most people dont take their guns to the bowling alley. unless you are my friend Walter

So for all of the people who have guns "to protect themselves", what are they protecting themselves from if it's not this type of situation? I mean it always gets thrown out in these threads that people justify having guns to protect themselves from these situations, but that never really happens.

i got a bunch of guns in my home. I dont walk around town with them

 

[Scoresman]

With everyone seemingly owning guns to protect themselves, have any of these shootings had people shooting back? Honest question I dont know the answer to, but you'd think with all the mass shootings, someone would've shot back by now.

most people dont take their guns to the bowling alley. unless you are my friend Walter

So for all of the people who have guns "to protect themselves", what are they protecting themselves from if it's not this type of situation? I mean it always gets thrown out in these threads that people justify having guns to protect themselves from these situations, but that never really happens.

i got a bunch of guns in my home. I dont walk around town with them

Right, and I get why you wouldn't do that. It just follows that it doesn't make much sense for someone to say they own a gun to protect themselves in the context of a mass shooting thread. You're only really protecting yourself from home invasion type situations and even that's iffy.

 

[beer 30]

With everyone seemingly owning guns to protect themselves, have any of these shootings had people shooting back? Honest question I dont know the answer to, but you'd think with all the mass shootings, someone would've shot back by now.

most people dont take their guns to the bowling alley. unless you are my friend Walter

So for all of the people who have guns "to protect themselves", what are they protecting themselves from if it's not this type of situation? I mean it always gets thrown out in these threads that people justify having guns to protect themselves from these situations, but that never really happens.

It does, you just don't hear about it as much. I see most of them posted on the gram by Colion Noir. Here is his blog that has them interspersed throughout all the 2A stuff. https://www.mrcolionnoir.com/

 

[Courtjester]

With everyone seemingly owning guns to protect themselves, have any of these shootings had people shooting back? Honest question I dont know the answer to, but you'd think with all the mass shootings, someone would've shot back by now.

Again walking a line here, but if you go to a certain network's website that rhymes with Mox News, there are weekly stories about good guy/gal with a gun stopping a violent crime or defending themselves. If accurate, it happens somewhat frequently.

These are never covered by other MSM outlets because it would fly in the face of the narrative they wish to advance.

 

[1320kid]

With everyone seemingly owning guns to protect themselves, have any of these shootings had people shooting back? Honest question I dont know the answer to, but you'd think with all the mass shootings, someone would've shot back by now.

most people dont take their guns to the bowling alley. unless you are my friend Walter

So for all of the people who have guns "to protect themselves", what are they protecting themselves from if it's not this type of situation? I mean it always gets thrown out in these threads that people justify having guns to protect themselves from these situations, but that never really happens.

It happens but it never gets reported on the news or to data collectors my man.

Good guys’ guns save lives more often than reported

The founder of the Crime Prevention Research Center says many instances of a good guy with a gun stopping a bad guy with a gun have been left out of the FBI’s database of active shooting incidents, fueling a false narrative that rarely do good guys with guns stop shootings.

www.washingtontimes.com

 

[tommyGunZ]

With everyone seemingly owning guns to protect themselves, have any of these shootings had people shooting back? Honest question I dont know the answer to, but you'd think with all the mass shootings, someone would've shot back by now.

Again walking a line here, but if you go to a certain network's website that rhymes with Mox News, there are weekly stories about good guy/gal with a gun stopping a violent crime or defending themselves. If accurate, it happens somewhat frequently.

These are never covered by other MSM outlets because it would fly in the face of the narrative they wish to advance.

Violent crime is down 50% from 1990. That's the data - that's 100% facts. Is your MSM outlet continuing to report that fact, or are they beating you over the head with anecdotes?

 

[AAABatteries]

If anybody tells me they’re going to shoot anyone I’m not stopping until I’ve done everything to get that person help, locked up or both. I’m not releasing them under any circumstance.

Who made the decision to let him go? Blood is directly on their hands.

Yea this is the issue in our country. It's not the guns.

We lack common sense in our decisions as a society. We allow people access who should not have access......example, we had a perv teacher in our district moved around, tried to brush it under the rug......well now some kids are bringing a civil suit against him, **** is hitting the fan! No one wants to make the tough decision that is right......it's like when a parent doesn't do the tough thing with their kid on the front end......it becomes so much worse on the back end.

Our society is sick. We have people who don't want to work. Drugs are more accessible then they've ever been. We are allowing people who have bad intent to run rampant. We have lost our way, and I don't see it getting better.

See, but I don't think we can say it's 100% NOT our love of and access to guns. For all this to be true, I would need way more proof that most countries in the world aren't also facing issues like you describe above. All around the world we can look and see countries struggling with similar things or worse, but what we don't see is the level of deaths we have.

If we can't admit that having a gun increases the ease we can kill each other and increases the death rate when incidents happen, I don't think we are having an honest discussion.

Three years ago we had mass riots across the country. Today Jewish people are being told to keep a low profile when they're out in public.

Do you think it's possible to have an honest discussion about gun control without talking about some of the reasons why people feel the need to arm themselves?

Yeah, this feels like one of those things that is self-fulfilling - more people are scared and wanting to protect themselves, so more people have guns which naturally makes the incidents of violence go up. I would hope folks on both sides of the debate can work to find some agreements on folks who shouldn't be allowed to have guns - this guy seems like a perfect example.

This isn't really true either. I think that the crime that does exist get magnified a lot more today than ever before. Whether that is a good thing or bad thing, I don't know. Violent crime has actually been on a steady decline for decades now, but most think the opposite, as their exposure via countless sources is so much higher today than just a few years ago.

Reported violent crime rate in the U.S. 2023| Statista

In 2023, the violent crime rate in the United States was 363.8 cases per 100,000 of the population.

www.statista.com

Not trying to argue but I didn't say the people fear is justified - it's just how people feel and I get it. Nobody wants to fall victim to crime/violence. And I'm record on these boards, I'm one of the furthest left when it comes to guns - but I understand the other side/position on things.

 

[GoBirds]

With everyone seemingly owning guns to protect themselves, have any of these shootings had people shooting back? Honest question I dont know the answer to, but you'd think with all the mass shootings, someone would've shot back by now.

Again walking a line here, but if you go to a certain network's website that rhymes with Mox News, there are weekly stories about good guy/gal with a gun stopping a violent crime or defending themselves. If accurate, it happens somewhat frequently.

These are never covered by other MSM outlets because it would fly in the face of the narrative they wish to advance.

Violent crime is down 50% from 1990. That's the data - that's 100% facts. Is your MSM outlet continuing to report that fact, or are they beating you over the head with anecdotes?

Yet in the last decade it hasn’t decreased at all. That’s the data. 100% facts. Is your MSM not sharing those facts?

 

[bcat01]

With everyone seemingly owning guns to protect themselves, have any of these shootings had people shooting back? Honest question I dont know the answer to, but you'd think with all the mass shootings, someone would've shot back by now.

most people dont take their guns to the bowling alley. unless you are my friend Walter

So for all of the people who have guns "to protect themselves", what are they protecting themselves from if it's not this type of situation? I mean it always gets thrown out in these threads that people justify having guns to protect themselves from these situations, but that never really happens.

Greenwood Park Mall shooting - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Is there any reason the number was at 22 dead last night and then I see now it's 18?
I guess it really doesn't matter in the scope of things so far but I just was curious who miscounted, where did these reporters get their information from, police reports?

And we have no clue where this guy is at right now? I heard he might have crossed the border into Mass but who knows if that's true.
This person despite having obvious mental issues, appears to be running a playbook from his expertise and experience in the military

I wish they could take him alive but it doesn't seem like he wants to be apprehended and he also didn't instantly end his own life as we see in many other tragedies like this.
I feel awful for the people trying to hunt him down, you are in a complete no win situation, I doubt they are going to have a choice when confronted with him

Already lost a lot of people and many more injured, I hope he doesn't strike again before they can get to him.
There has to be some ruthless FBI types that live for these kind of manhunts, I hope they can find him before he hurts anyone else.

 

[BeTheMatch]

Is there any reason the number was at 22 dead last night and then I see now it's 18?
I guess it really doesn't matter in the scope of things so far but I just was curious who miscounted, where did these reporters get their information from, police reports?

And we have no clue where this guy is at right now? I heard he might have crossed the border into Mass but who knows if that's true.
This person despite having obvious mental issues, appears to be running a playbook from his expertise and experience in the military

I wish they could take him alive but it doesn't seem like he wants to be apprehended and he also didn't instantly end his own life as we see in many other tragedies like this.
I feel awful for the people trying to hunt him down, you are in a complete no win situation, I doubt they are going to have a choice when confronted with him

Already lost a lot of people and many more injured, I hope he doesn't strike again before they can get to him.
There has to be some ruthless FBI types that live for these kind of manhunts, I hope they can find him before he hurts anyone else.

A local city councilman was on CNN last night and said it was 22 several times.

 

[ghostguy123]

With everyone seemingly owning guns to protect themselves, have any of these shootings had people shooting back? Honest question I dont know the answer to, but you'd think with all the mass shootings, someone would've shot back by now.

most people dont take their guns to the bowling alley. unless you are my friend Walter

So for all of the people who have guns "to protect themselves", what are they protecting themselves from if it's not this type of situation? I mean it always gets thrown out in these threads that people justify having guns to protect themselves from these situations, but that never really happens.

When someone whips out an assault rifle, I'm not gonna try and stop them with my pee shooter.

 

[CGRdrJoe]

Is there any reason the number was at 22 dead last night and then I see now it's 18?
I guess it really doesn't matter in the scope of things so far but I just was curious who miscounted, where did these reporters get their information from, police reports?

And we have no clue where this guy is at right now? I heard he might have crossed the border into Mass but who knows if that's true.
This person despite having obvious mental issues, appears to be running a playbook from his expertise and experience in the military

I wish they could take him alive but it doesn't seem like he wants to be apprehended and he also didn't instantly end his own life as we see in many other tragedies like this.
I feel awful for the people trying to hunt him down, you are in a complete no win situation, I doubt they are going to have a choice when confronted with him

Already lost a lot of people and many more injured, I hope he doesn't strike again before they can get to him.
There has to be some ruthless FBI types that live for these kind of manhunts, I hope they can find him before he hurts anyone else.

Let's calm down on his military training, he's an Army reserve petroleum supply specialist who never went oversea's to war so his PTSD/mental stuff is not from that.

The number dead is because everyone wants to be first to report the numbers before confirming anything, the Mayor during the press conference last night would not verify any numbers the reporters were throwing at him because he didn't know the exact number.

 

[BeTheMatch]

Is there any reason the number was at 22 dead last night and then I see now it's 18?
I guess it really doesn't matter in the scope of things so far but I just was curious who miscounted, where did these reporters get their information from, police reports?

And we have no clue where this guy is at right now? I heard he might have crossed the border into Mass but who knows if that's true.
This person despite having obvious mental issues, appears to be running a playbook from his expertise and experience in the military

I wish they could take him alive but it doesn't seem like he wants to be apprehended and he also didn't instantly end his own life as we see in many other tragedies like this.
I feel awful for the people trying to hunt him down, you are in a complete no win situation, I doubt they are going to have a choice when confronted with him

Already lost a lot of people and many more injured, I hope he doesn't strike again before they can get to him.
There has to be some ruthless FBI types that live for these kind of manhunts, I hope they can find him before he hurts anyone else.

The number dead is because everyone wants to be first to report the numbers before confirming anything, the Mayor during the press conference last night would not verify any numbers the reporters were throwing at him because he didn't know the exact number.

In this case, that's not why. CNN went with the number given to them live on the air by a local politician. They even questioned him on it saying they had it at 16. He said no, 22. I guess they obviously vetted it later and found out the guy was wrong. That's hardly the media's fault.

 

[Manster]

Mental illness is also not a new thing in the last few decades. Again, it's a bit of both things.

I think we mostly have good intentions.

Three years ago we had mass riots across the country. Today Jewish people are being told to keep a low profile when they're out in public.

Do you think it's possible to have an honest discussion about gun control without talking about some of the reasons why people feel the need to arm themselves?

I agreee 100% - we absolutely need to understand and discuss why people are irrationally fearful, and how much easy access to firearms contribute to that fear.

But it's more dangerous than ever with gun violence, right? So why shouldn't law abiding folks protect themselves, and their families?

Also, there is plenty of irrational fear in our society.......about everything! Hence the mental health issues, and everyone with anxiety. It's the 24-7 news cycle......it's believing what you read on the Internet, even when it's biased garbage......it's having your viewpoint reinforced by social media algorithms showing you **** that will lead you down that path ......it's living in an echo chamber.

 

[beer 30]

o for all of the people who have guns "to protect themselves", what are they protecting themselves from if it's not this type of situation? I mean it always gets thrown out in these threads that people justify having guns to protect themselves from these situations, but that never really happens.

I'll try to keep this vanilla. There is a church in my area, pastored by a black man and a white woman. I live in SC and it's all cool but you'd be a fool to think that that fact is lost on some of the die hards around here. The folks still flying the rebel flag for reasons other than historical. There is a small security contingent at the church who are armed and discuss scenarios like this and prepare for a response to such an event. Most every church around here has something similar in place. Some employ off duty officers, some are voluntary, some are overt, most are not. Aside from uniformed officers, no one open carries but there are armed individuals in most all congregations around here.

 

[beer 30]

Also, there is plenty of irrational fear in our society.......about everything! Hence the mental health issues, and everyone with anxiety. It's the 24-7 news cycle......it's believing what you read on the Internet, even when it's biased garbage......it's having your viewpoint reinforced by social media algorithms showing you **** that will lead you down that path ......it's living in an echo chamber.

Remember the lines to gun stores in California during COVID lockdowns?

 

[Manster]

Also, there is plenty of irrational fear in our society.......about everything! Hence the mental health issues, and everyone with anxiety. It's the 24-7 news cycle......it's believing what you read on the Internet, even when it's biased garbage......it's having your viewpoint reinforced by social media algorithms showing you **** that will lead you down that path ......it's living in an echo chamber.

Remember the lines to gun stores in California during COVID lockdowns?

Hell, I still can't find the 7mm mag rounds I use for hunting. Glad I used to grab a box every time I went to Cabela's, back in the day

 

[BeTheMatch]

I don't know if this has been discussed in here - haven't read the whole thread. But I haven't seen it discussed on TV at all, and to me it's a big question that I'm having a hard time understanding given the little info we have so far.

And that's that in a smallish town like this, how did no police get to either shooting location to engage the shooter before he left? There almost had to be at least one officer within seconds of both sites when calls came in, I would think. It's not like they have two cops on duty in the whole town.

Why is no one asking about this? I'd hate to think this is another Uvalde situation, but it's just a question that's popped into my mind.

Obviously I know nothing, and police have been very tight-lipped so far given that it's still active. That makes sense.

So I'm not criticizing, just wondering. And surprised no one else seems to be wondering.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I don't know if this has been discussed in here - haven't read the whole thread. But I haven't seen it discussed on TV at all, and to me it's a big question that I'm having a hard time understanding given the little info we have so far.

And that's that in a smallish town like this, how did no police get to either shooting location to engage the shooter before he left? There almost had to be at least one officer within seconds of both sites when calls came in, I would think. It's not like they have two cops on duty in the whole town.

Why is no one asking about this? I'd hate to think this is another Uvalde situation, but it's just a question that's popped into my mind.

Obviously I know nothing, and police have been very tight-lipped so far given that it's still active. That makes sense.

So I'm not criticizing, just wondering. And surprised no one else seems to be wondering.

The timeline seems to be pretty tight. I don't think he hung around and hunted people down. Pretty in and out. The 911 call at the 2nd location came 12 minutes after the first location and in that time he had already driven between the two (not sure how far apart they were).

One guy at the bowling alley said he ran down the bowling lane into the area where the pins were and the shooter just kind of moved on. So maybe trying to be quick rather than thorough.

I would imagine there is a fair bit of delay from when the shooting starts to when the 911 calls come in as everyone's first priority is to get to safety. So he may already have been gone by the time the 911 call even came in.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Is there any reason the number was at 22 dead last night and then I see now it's 18?
I guess it really doesn't matter in the scope of things so far but I just was curious who miscounted, where did these reporters get their information from, police reports?

And we have no clue where this guy is at right now? I heard he might have crossed the border into Mass but who knows if that's true.
This person despite having obvious mental issues, appears to be running a playbook from his expertise and experience in the military

I wish they could take him alive but it doesn't seem like he wants to be apprehended and he also didn't instantly end his own life as we see in many other tragedies like this.
I feel awful for the people trying to hunt him down, you are in a complete no win situation, I doubt they are going to have a choice when confronted with him

Already lost a lot of people and many more injured, I hope he doesn't strike again before they can get to him.
There has to be some ruthless FBI types that live for these kind of manhunts, I hope they can find him before he hurts anyone else.

Let's calm down on his military training, he's an Army reserve petroleum supply specialist who never went oversea's to war so his PTSD/mental stuff is not from that.

The number dead is because everyone wants to be first to report the numbers before confirming anything, the Mayor during the press conference last night would not verify any numbers the reporters were throwing at him because he didn't know the exact number.

Thanks Joe,
Truth is I don't know much about the terrorrist/murderer
I told my wife 22 people were killed last night when she brought it up, she started correcting me telling me it was 15, now it's 18
I hope all those who are injured survive and I hope nobody else gets added to the murder count.

I hear you on being the first to report, it's scary how news/stories change over just a few hours or less than a day.
And I was overstating his mental health because I also think it's a little weird that the press has that as the lead in when we don't know anything about him

-I heard he was mentally diagnosed months back but where i heard that, who said it, what station, I have no idea
Which is why i definitely should not be spreading any information, I don't know enough. Just hope they find him and get him to surrender or give it up.
I was just wanting to get more info, only reason i ducked in here.

Appreciate all the posts back

 

[1320kid]

I don't know if this has been discussed in here - haven't read the whole thread. But I haven't seen it discussed on TV at all, and to me it's a big question that I'm having a hard time understanding given the little info we have so far.

And that's that in a smallish town like this, how did no police get to either shooting location to engage the shooter before he left? There almost had to be at least one officer within seconds of both sites when calls came in, I would think. It's not like they have two cops on duty in the whole town.

Why is no one asking about this? I'd hate to think this is another Uvalde situation, but it's just a question that's popped into my mind.

Obviously I know nothing, and police have been very tight-lipped so far given that it's still active. That makes sense.

So I'm not criticizing, just wondering. And surprised no one else seems to be wondering.

Fantastic question. "When seconds matter, the police are only minutes away".

 

[SWC]

Also, there is plenty of irrational fear in our society.......about everything! Hence the mental health issues, and everyone with anxiety. It's the 24-7 news cycle......it's believing what you read on the Internet, even when it's biased garbage......it's having your viewpoint reinforced by social media algorithms showing you **** that will lead you down that path ......it's living in an echo chamber.

Remember the lines to gun stores in California during COVID lockdowns?

Hell, I still can't find the 7mm mag rounds I use for hunting. Glad I used to grab a box every time I went to Cabela's, back in the day

must be a your area thing because the cabellas here have core lock 7mm 20 counts for like 45 bucks take that to the bank brohan

 

[BeTheMatch]

I don't know if this has been discussed in here - haven't read the whole thread. But I haven't seen it discussed on TV at all, and to me it's a big question that I'm having a hard time understanding given the little info we have so far.

And that's that in a smallish town like this, how did no police get to either shooting location to engage the shooter before he left? There almost had to be at least one officer within seconds of both sites when calls came in, I would think. It's not like they have two cops on duty in the whole town.

Why is no one asking about this? I'd hate to think this is another Uvalde situation, but it's just a question that's popped into my mind.

Obviously I know nothing, and police have been very tight-lipped so far given that it's still active. That makes sense.

So I'm not criticizing, just wondering. And surprised no one else seems to be wondering.

The timeline seems to be pretty tight. I don't think he hung around and hunted people down. Pretty in and out. The 911 call at the 2nd location came 12 minutes after the first location and in that time he had already driven between the two (not sure how far apart they were).

One guy at the bowling alley said he ran down the bowling lane into the area where the pins were and the shooter just kind of moved on. So maybe trying to be quick rather than thorough.

I would imagine there is a fair bit of delay from when the shooting starts to when the 911 calls come in as everyone's first priority is to get to safety. So he may already have been gone by the time the 911 call even came in.

Sounds like the sites were two miles apart. So, yeah, not there very long. Still seems potentially puzzling to me.

Now NBC saying they found a note in the guy's house. Don't know content. Seems irrelevant. The guy obviously has/had mental issues. Any more detail than that probably doesn't provide much.

 

[dickey moe]

i bet he had another car where he parked the getaway car. guy could be anywhere

I saw something about him owning a jet ski and his car was ditched at a marina? Nuts. Hopefully they get this guy soon.

How far can a jet ski go?

I have seen jetskis out 30 miles in the ocean. So at least 60 miles on a tank of fuel.

Holy cats there's no way I would jet ski 30 miles away from the mainland.

 

[grateful zed]

Three years ago we had mass riots across the country. Today Jewish people are being told to keep a low profile when they're out in public.

Do you think it's possible to have an honest discussion about gun control without talking about some of the reasons why people feel the need to arm themselves?

I agreee 100% - we absolutely need to understand and discuss why people are irrationally fearful, and how much easy access to firearms contribute to that fear.

Right on cue.

its on cue but hes not wrong take that to the bank bromigo

It's what I meant in my initial post.

When you start the conversation by questioning the sincerity of the motivations of the other side, you've ****ed compromise from the beginning.

Violent crime is half of what it was just 35 years ago, yet people are extremely fearful of violent crime and are purchasing more firearms to protect them. Is that rational?

link?

 

[dickey moe]

Three years ago we had mass riots across the country. Today Jewish people are being told to keep a low profile when they're out in public.

Do you think it's possible to have an honest discussion about gun control without talking about some of the reasons why people feel the need to arm themselves?

I agreee 100% - we absolutely need to understand and discuss why people are irrationally fearful, and how much easy access to firearms contribute to that fear.

Irrationally fearful? You’re trying to understand people and you’re calling them irrational? That doesn’t sound very understanding.

“Easy access to firearms”? Have you ever purchased a firearm?

The violent crime rate in America is 1/2 of what it was when you and I were growing up. People are far safer than they were 35 years ago.

ETA: So yes, people being fearful is irrational.

How might that rationality change if one considered... oh I don't know...maybe the past five years?

 

[1320kid]

Three years ago we had mass riots across the country. Today Jewish people are being told to keep a low profile when they're out in public.

Do you think it's possible to have an honest discussion about gun control without talking about some of the reasons why people feel the need to arm themselves?

I agreee 100% - we absolutely need to understand and discuss why people are irrationally fearful, and how much easy access to firearms contribute to that fear.

Right on cue.

its on cue but hes not wrong take that to the bank bromigo

It's what I meant in my initial post.

When you start the conversation by questioning the sincerity of the motivations of the other side, you've ****ed compromise from the beginning.

Violent crime is half of what it was just 35 years ago, yet people are extremely fearful of violent crime and are purchasing more firearms to protect them. Is that rational?

link?

Violent Crime Rates Are Falling Steeply

A March 2019 Gallup poll reported that 47 percent and 28 percent of Americans, respectively, worried about crime and violence a great deal or a fair amount. In fact, polls found persistently high levels of concern over crime during the past decade, even though violent crime rates have been...

humanprogress.org

 

[CGRdrJoe]

Is there any reason the number was at 22 dead last night and then I see now it's 18?
I guess it really doesn't matter in the scope of things so far but I just was curious who miscounted, where did these reporters get their information from, police reports?

And we have no clue where this guy is at right now? I heard he might have crossed the border into Mass but who knows if that's true.
This person despite having obvious mental issues, appears to be running a playbook from his expertise and experience in the military

I wish they could take him alive but it doesn't seem like he wants to be apprehended and he also didn't instantly end his own life as we see in many other tragedies like this.
I feel awful for the people trying to hunt him down, you are in a complete no win situation, I doubt they are going to have a choice when confronted with him

Already lost a lot of people and many more injured, I hope he doesn't strike again before they can get to him.
There has to be some ruthless FBI types that live for these kind of manhunts, I hope they can find him before he hurts anyone else.

Let's calm down on his military training, he's an Army reserve petroleum supply specialist who never went oversea's to war so his PTSD/mental stuff is not from that.

The number dead is because everyone wants to be first to report the numbers before confirming anything, the Mayor during the press conference last night would not verify any numbers the reporters were throwing at him because he didn't know the exact number.

Thanks Joe,
Truth is I don't know much about the terrorrist/murderer
I told my wife 22 people were killed last night when she brought it up, she started correcting me telling me it was 15, now it's 18
I hope all those who are injured survive and I hope nobody else gets added to the murder count.

I hear you on being the first to report, it's scary how news/stories change over just a few hours or less than a day.
And I was overstating his mental health because I also think it's a little weird that the press has that as the lead in when we don't know anything about him

-I heard he was mentally diagnosed months back but where i heard that, who said it, what station, I have no idea
Which is why i definitely should not be spreading any information, I don't know enough. Just hope they find him and get him to surrender or give it up.
I was just wanting to get mroe ino, only reason i ducked in here.

Appreciate all the posts back

By Melissa Chan, Ken Dilanian and Tom Winter
The family of the Army reservist accused of fatally shooting more than a dozen people in Lewiston, Maine, alerted police and military officials that he was experiencing an “acute” mental health episode before the Wednesday night massacre, the suspect’s sister-in-law said.
Robert Card, 40, a firearms instructor and longtime member of the Army Reserve, began to hear voices that were saying “horrible” things about him a couple of months ago when he was fitted for high-powered hearing aids, according to Katie Card, who is married to his brother.

“He was picking up voices that he had never heard,” she told NBC News. “His mind was twisting them around. He was humiliated by the things that he thought were being said.”
Katie Card said the family did their best to reassure Robert Card that the comments were not real, including by verifying with some of the people he claimed had made the remarks.
But, she said, “it turned into a manic belief.”
“He was just very set in his belief that everyone was against him all of a sudden,” she said.
Robert Card, who was still at large early Thursday afternoon, is accused of killing at least 18 people and injuring many others at a bar and bowling alley, police said.

His sister-in-law said the family reached out to police and the Army Reserve base where he serves as they “got increasingly concerned" in the last few weeks.

“We just reached out to make sure everyone was on the same page because he is someone who does gun training,” she said. “We were concerned about his mental state. That’s all.”

Her husband went “back and forth” with the Army, Katie Card said.

“They were following up on it, too, but he’s never been someone we thought would actually do anything,” she said.

The Army, which confirmed Robert Card’s status with the Reserve, did not immediately respond to a subsequent request for comment by NBC News about the family’s warning.

Two senior law enforcement officials told NBC News that Robert Card’s military unit commanders sent him to receive psychiatric treatment this summer after they became concerned about threats he made to the base and his claims that he was hearing voices.

Robert Card spent about two weeks undergoing in-patient psychiatric treatment and was released, according to the officials. It is not clear what further action was taken.

A Defense Department official said that Card's unit requested law enforcement be contacted in July after he began behaving erratically. New York State Police responded and transported Card to Keller Army Community Hospital at the United States Military Academy for medical evaluation.

Katie Card declined to discuss whether the family tried to restrict his access to firearms.

As officers headed to Maine to help with the manhunt, a note was found at Card's home during the course of a search warrant being executed there, four senior law enforcement officials tell NBC News.

Right now, investigators are trying to determine the meaning of the note and how it could potentially guide their investigation, the officials say.

The weapon believed to have been used in the attack was a sniper rifle with .308 caliber bullets, and that it was purchased legally in 2023, officials said.

Card enlisted in the Army Reserve in December 2002 and had no combat deployments, an Army spokesperson said.

His sister-in-law said he had severe hearing loss likely due to being around constant gunfire.

She said the family has been continuously messaging him to tell him he’s loved and that “he needs to do the right thing” but has not heard from him.

Katie Card said her brother-in-law is a “wonderful person” and a great father to his son who just graduated high school. She said his behavior change was sudden and that he had not previously experienced mental health issues.

“We don’t know this person. This is not him,” she said. “We are so sorry for the pain he’s caused others.

 

[BeTheMatch]

Is there any reason the number was at 22 dead last night and then I see now it's 18?
I guess it really doesn't matter in the scope of things so far but I just was curious who miscounted, where did these reporters get their information from, police reports?

And we have no clue where this guy is at right now? I heard he might have crossed the border into Mass but who knows if that's true.
This person despite having obvious mental issues, appears to be running a playbook from his expertise and experience in the military

I wish they could take him alive but it doesn't seem like he wants to be apprehended and he also didn't instantly end his own life as we see in many other tragedies like this.
I feel awful for the people trying to hunt him down, you are in a complete no win situation, I doubt they are going to have a choice when confronted with him

Already lost a lot of people and many more injured, I hope he doesn't strike again before they can get to him.
There has to be some ruthless FBI types that live for these kind of manhunts, I hope they can find him before he hurts anyone else.

Let's calm down on his military training, he's an Army reserve petroleum supply specialist who never went oversea's to war so his PTSD/mental stuff is not from that.

The number dead is because everyone wants to be first to report the numbers before confirming anything, the Mayor during the press conference last night would not verify any numbers the reporters were throwing at him because he didn't know the exact number.

Thanks Joe,
Truth is I don't know much about the terrorrist/murderer
I told my wife 22 people were killed last night when she brought it up, she started correcting me telling me it was 15, now it's 18
I hope all those who are injured survive and I hope nobody else gets added to the murder count.

I hear you on being the first to report, it's scary how news/stories change over just a few hours or less than a day.
And I was overstating his mental health because I also think it's a little weird that the press has that as the lead in when we don't know anything about him

-I heard he was mentally diagnosed months back but where i heard that, who said it, what station, I have no idea
Which is why i definitely should not be spreading any information, I don't know enough. Just hope they find him and get him to surrender or give it up.
I was just wanting to get mroe ino, only reason i ducked in here.

Appreciate all the posts back

By Melissa Chan, Ken Dilanian and Tom Winter
The family of the Army reservist accused of fatally shooting more than a dozen people in Lewiston, Maine, alerted police and military officials that he was experiencing an “acute” mental health episode before the Wednesday night massacre, the suspect’s sister-in-law said.
Robert Card, 40, a firearms instructor and longtime member of the Army Reserve, began to hear voices that were saying “horrible” things about him a couple of months ago when he was fitted for high-powered hearing aids, according to Katie Card, who is married to his brother.

“He was picking up voices that he had never heard,” she told NBC News. “His mind was twisting them around. He was humiliated by the things that he thought were being said.”
Katie Card said the family did their best to reassure Robert Card that the comments were not real, including by verifying with some of the people he claimed had made the remarks.
But, she said, “it turned into a manic belief.”
“He was just very set in his belief that everyone was against him all of a sudden,” she said.
Robert Card, who was still at large early Thursday afternoon, is accused of killing at least 18 people and injuring many others at a bar and bowling alley, police said.

His sister-in-law said the family reached out to police and the Army Reserve base where he serves as they “got increasingly concerned" in the last few weeks.

“We just reached out to make sure everyone was on the same page because he is someone who does gun training,” she said. “We were concerned about his mental state. That’s all.”

Her husband went “back and forth” with the Army, Katie Card said.

“They were following up on it, too, but he’s never been someone we thought would actually do anything,” she said.

The Army, which confirmed Robert Card’s status with the Reserve, did not immediately respond to a subsequent request for comment by NBC News about the family’s warning.

Two senior law enforcement officials told NBC News that Robert Card’s military unit commanders sent him to receive psychiatric treatment this summer after they became concerned about threats he made to the base and his claims that he was hearing voices.

Robert Card spent about two weeks undergoing in-patient psychiatric treatment and was released, according to the officials. It is not clear what further action was taken.

A Defense Department official said that Card's unit requested law enforcement be contacted in July after he began behaving erratically. New York State Police responded and transported Card to Keller Army Community Hospital at the United States Military Academy for medical evaluation.

Katie Card declined to discuss whether the family tried to restrict his access to firearms.

As officers headed to Maine to help with the manhunt, a note was found at Card's home during the course of a search warrant being executed there, four senior law enforcement officials tell NBC News.

Right now, investigators are trying to determine the meaning of the note and how it could potentially guide their investigation, the officials say.

The weapon believed to have been used in the attack was a sniper rifle with .308 caliber bullets, and that it was purchased legally in 2023, officials said.

Card enlisted in the Army Reserve in December 2002 and had no combat deployments, an Army spokesperson said.

His sister-in-law said he had severe hearing loss likely due to being around constant gunfire.

She said the family has been continuously messaging him to tell him he’s loved and that “he needs to do the right thing” but has not heard from him.

Katie Card said her brother-in-law is a “wonderful person” and a great father to his son who just graduated high school. She said his behavior change was sudden and that he had not previously experienced mental health issues.

“We don’t know this person. This is not him,” she said. “We are so sorry for the pain he’s caused others.

What a disaster

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Is there any reason the number was at 22 dead last night and then I see now it's 18?
I guess it really doesn't matter in the scope of things so far but I just was curious who miscounted, where did these reporters get their information from, police reports?

And we have no clue where this guy is at right now? I heard he might have crossed the border into Mass but who knows if that's true.
This person despite having obvious mental issues, appears to be running a playbook from his expertise and experience in the military

I wish they could take him alive but it doesn't seem like he wants to be apprehended and he also didn't instantly end his own life as we see in many other tragedies like this.
I feel awful for the people trying to hunt him down, you are in a complete no win situation, I doubt they are going to have a choice when confronted with him

Already lost a lot of people and many more injured, I hope he doesn't strike again before they can get to him.
There has to be some ruthless FBI types that live for these kind of manhunts, I hope they can find him before he hurts anyone else.

Let's calm down on his military training, he's an Army reserve petroleum supply specialist who never went oversea's to war so his PTSD/mental stuff is not from that.

The number dead is because everyone wants to be first to report the numbers before confirming anything, the Mayor during the press conference last night would not verify any numbers the reporters were throwing at him because he didn't know the exact number.

Thanks Joe,
Truth is I don't know much about the terrorrist/murderer
I told my wife 22 people were killed last night when she brought it up, she started correcting me telling me it was 15, now it's 18
I hope all those who are injured survive and I hope nobody else gets added to the murder count.

I hear you on being the first to report, it's scary how news/stories change over just a few hours or less than a day.
And I was overstating his mental health because I also think it's a little weird that the press has that as the lead in when we don't know anything about him

-I heard he was mentally diagnosed months back but where i heard that, who said it, what station, I have no idea
Which is why i definitely should not be spreading any information, I don't know enough. Just hope they find him and get him to surrender or give it up.
I was just wanting to get mroe ino, only reason i ducked in here.

Appreciate all the posts back

By Melissa Chan, Ken Dilanian and Tom Winter
The family of the Army reservist accused of fatally shooting more than a dozen people in Lewiston, Maine, alerted police and military officials that he was experiencing an “acute” mental health episode before the Wednesday night massacre, the suspect’s sister-in-law said.
Robert Card, 40, a firearms instructor and longtime member of the Army Reserve, began to hear voices that were saying “horrible” things about him a couple of months ago when he was fitted for high-powered hearing aids, according to Katie Card, who is married to his brother.

“He was picking up voices that he had never heard,” she told NBC News. “His mind was twisting them around. He was humiliated by the things that he thought were being said.”
Katie Card said the family did their best to reassure Robert Card that the comments were not real, including by verifying with some of the people he claimed had made the remarks.
But, she said, “it turned into a manic belief.”
“He was just very set in his belief that everyone was against him all of a sudden,” she said.
Robert Card, who was still at large early Thursday afternoon, is accused of killing at least 18 people and injuring many others at a bar and bowling alley, police said.

His sister-in-law said the family reached out to police and the Army Reserve base where he serves as they “got increasingly concerned" in the last few weeks.

“We just reached out to make sure everyone was on the same page because he is someone who does gun training,” she said. “We were concerned about his mental state. That’s all.”

Her husband went “back and forth” with the Army, Katie Card said.

“They were following up on it, too, but he’s never been someone we thought would actually do anything,” she said.

The Army, which confirmed Robert Card’s status with the Reserve, did not immediately respond to a subsequent request for comment by NBC News about the family’s warning.

Two senior law enforcement officials told NBC News that Robert Card’s military unit commanders sent him to receive psychiatric treatment this summer after they became concerned about threats he made to the base and his claims that he was hearing voices.

Robert Card spent about two weeks undergoing in-patient psychiatric treatment and was released, according to the officials. It is not clear what further action was taken.

A Defense Department official said that Card's unit requested law enforcement be contacted in July after he began behaving erratically. New York State Police responded and transported Card to Keller Army Community Hospital at the United States Military Academy for medical evaluation.

Katie Card declined to discuss whether the family tried to restrict his access to firearms.

As officers headed to Maine to help with the manhunt, a note was found at Card's home during the course of a search warrant being executed there, four senior law enforcement officials tell NBC News.

Right now, investigators are trying to determine the meaning of the note and how it could potentially guide their investigation, the officials say.

The weapon believed to have been used in the attack was a sniper rifle with .308 caliber bullets, and that it was purchased legally in 2023, officials said.

Card enlisted in the Army Reserve in December 2002 and had no combat deployments, an Army spokesperson said.

His sister-in-law said he had severe hearing loss likely due to being around constant gunfire.

She said the family has been continuously messaging him to tell him he’s loved and that “he needs to do the right thing” but has not heard from him.

Katie Card said her brother-in-law is a “wonderful person” and a great father to his son who just graduated high school. She said his behavior change was sudden and that he had not previously experienced mental health issues.

“We don’t know this person. This is not him,” she said. “We are so sorry for the pain he’s caused others.

It just makes me sadder with each line, I'm always hateful towards anyone that does these things especially as it's unfolding
But then you read all this and you kind of throw up your hands and say
"What did everyone expect would happen?"
Very sad to hear about this, and the manner and the quick response of the sister-in-law, sounds completely real
Doesn't justify any of the actions of course but sounds like it was becoming inevitable the way it's described.

-I hope they have the Son under police watch for his own safety right now
Thanks Joe

 

[CGRdrJoe]

Is there any reason the number was at 22 dead last night and then I see now it's 18?
I guess it really doesn't matter in the scope of things so far but I just was curious who miscounted, where did these reporters get their information from, police reports?

And we have no clue where this guy is at right now? I heard he might have crossed the border into Mass but who knows if that's true.
This person despite having obvious mental issues, appears to be running a playbook from his expertise and experience in the military

I wish they could take him alive but it doesn't seem like he wants to be apprehended and he also didn't instantly end his own life as we see in many other tragedies like this.
I feel awful for the people trying to hunt him down, you are in a complete no win situation, I doubt they are going to have a choice when confronted with him

Already lost a lot of people and many more injured, I hope he doesn't strike again before they can get to him.
There has to be some ruthless FBI types that live for these kind of manhunts, I hope they can find him before he hurts anyone else.

Let's calm down on his military training, he's an Army reserve petroleum supply specialist who never went oversea's to war so his PTSD/mental stuff is not from that.

The number dead is because everyone wants to be first to report the numbers before confirming anything, the Mayor during the press conference last night would not verify any numbers the reporters were throwing at him because he didn't know the exact number.

Thanks Joe,
Truth is I don't know much about the terrorrist/murderer
I told my wife 22 people were killed last night when she brought it up, she started correcting me telling me it was 15, now it's 18
I hope all those who are injured survive and I hope nobody else gets added to the murder count.

I hear you on being the first to report, it's scary how news/stories change over just a few hours or less than a day.
And I was overstating his mental health because I also think it's a little weird that the press has that as the lead in when we don't know anything about him

-I heard he was mentally diagnosed months back but where i heard that, who said it, what station, I have no idea
Which is why i definitely should not be spreading any information, I don't know enough. Just hope they find him and get him to surrender or give it up.
I was just wanting to get mroe ino, only reason i ducked in here.

Appreciate all the posts back

By Melissa Chan, Ken Dilanian and Tom Winter
The family of the Army reservist accused of fatally shooting more than a dozen people in Lewiston, Maine, alerted police and military officials that he was experiencing an “acute” mental health episode before the Wednesday night massacre, the suspect’s sister-in-law said.
Robert Card, 40, a firearms instructor and longtime member of the Army Reserve, began to hear voices that were saying “horrible” things about him a couple of months ago when he was fitted for high-powered hearing aids, according to Katie Card, who is married to his brother.

“He was picking up voices that he had never heard,” she told NBC News. “His mind was twisting them around. He was humiliated by the things that he thought were being said.”
Katie Card said the family did their best to reassure Robert Card that the comments were not real, including by verifying with some of the people he claimed had made the remarks.
But, she said, “it turned into a manic belief.”
“He was just very set in his belief that everyone was against him all of a sudden,” she said.
Robert Card, who was still at large early Thursday afternoon, is accused of killing at least 18 people and injuring many others at a bar and bowling alley, police said.

His sister-in-law said the family reached out to police and the Army Reserve base where he serves as they “got increasingly concerned" in the last few weeks.

“We just reached out to make sure everyone was on the same page because he is someone who does gun training,” she said. “We were concerned about his mental state. That’s all.”

Her husband went “back and forth” with the Army, Katie Card said.

“They were following up on it, too, but he’s never been someone we thought would actually do anything,” she said.

The Army, which confirmed Robert Card’s status with the Reserve, did not immediately respond to a subsequent request for comment by NBC News about the family’s warning.

Two senior law enforcement officials told NBC News that Robert Card’s military unit commanders sent him to receive psychiatric treatment this summer after they became concerned about threats he made to the base and his claims that he was hearing voices.

Robert Card spent about two weeks undergoing in-patient psychiatric treatment and was released, according to the officials. It is not clear what further action was taken.

A Defense Department official said that Card's unit requested law enforcement be contacted in July after he began behaving erratically. New York State Police responded and transported Card to Keller Army Community Hospital at the United States Military Academy for medical evaluation.

Katie Card declined to discuss whether the family tried to restrict his access to firearms.

As officers headed to Maine to help with the manhunt, a note was found at Card's home during the course of a search warrant being executed there, four senior law enforcement officials tell NBC News.

Right now, investigators are trying to determine the meaning of the note and how it could potentially guide their investigation, the officials say.

The weapon believed to have been used in the attack was a sniper rifle with .308 caliber bullets, and that it was purchased legally in 2023, officials said.

Card enlisted in the Army Reserve in December 2002 and had no combat deployments, an Army spokesperson said.

His sister-in-law said he had severe hearing loss likely due to being around constant gunfire.

She said the family has been continuously messaging him to tell him he’s loved and that “he needs to do the right thing” but has not heard from him.

Katie Card said her brother-in-law is a “wonderful person” and a great father to his son who just graduated high school. She said his behavior change was sudden and that he had not previously experienced mental health issues.

“We don’t know this person. This is not him,” she said. “We are so sorry for the pain he’s caused others.

It just makes me sadder with each line, I'm always hateful towards anyone that does these things especially as it's unfolding
But then you read all this and you kind of throw up your hands and say
"What did everyone expect would happen?"
Very sad to hear about this, and the manner and the quick response of the sister-in-law, sounds completely real
Doesn't justify any of the actions of course but sounds like it was becoming inevitable the way it's described.

-I hope they have the Son under police watch for his own safety right now
Thanks Joe

you're welcome, the reason the Army sent him to get the psyche eval was because he said he was going to shoot up the base. It's brutal to keep reading about because all the warning signs were there.

 

[Zow]

Mental illness is also not a new thing in the last few decades.

Couldn't disagree more.

I am surrounded by perfectly healthy adult coworkers who Absolutely Will Not Shut Up about much they're struggling with "mental well-being." This won't kick in for several years because we plan this way ahead, but we are going to start baking "mental health days" into our academic calendar so students don't have to sit through five days of class every week. (We get all the federal and state holidays too -- we're not one of those schools where classes are in session on Veterans Day or MLK Day).

These people don't have schizophrenia and they're not going to go on killing sprees, but they're depressed, neurotic, and anxious, and IMO they've mainly whipped themselves into this condition. It was not like this as recently as five years ago. This all changed practically overnight.

Wait, what?

When I was in college (which was a good academic college that required effort) I was maybe in classes 4 hrs. per day and had plenty of free time to study while still spending hours per day playing sports and dating and doing all the wonderful nothing stuff college life offers. I never once remember thinking, "man, this is too much?" I also don't recall it being a huge deal to skip a class here or there.

Have class hours changed or something that a day is a big deal and more days off are needed?

 

[Zow]

This country just gets so much wrong due to money and lobbyists. The fact that we can’t fix healthcare and eliminate/reduce these senseless mass shootings are the case studies. Other countries have solved both. But nope. Not us.

I'll elaborate more on this later, but from a legally legal perspective and to state what will sound strange, our Constitution likely has strongly contributed to the bold as it prevents aggressive legislation on gun control and proactive steps to curtailing the freedoms of those with mental health issues.

 

[The Commish]

Holy cats there's no way I would jet ski 30 miles away from the mainland.

People go from Miami/South Florida over to the Bahamas all the time. I don't understand the appeal. It has to be exhausting.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Mental illness is also not a new thing in the last few decades.

Couldn't disagree more.

I am surrounded by perfectly healthy adult coworkers who Absolutely Will Not Shut Up about much they're struggling with "mental well-being." This won't kick in for several years because we plan this way ahead, but we are going to start baking "mental health days" into our academic calendar so students don't have to sit through five days of class every week. (We get all the federal and state holidays too -- we're not one of those schools where classes are in session on Veterans Day or MLK Day).

These people don't have schizophrenia and they're not going to go on killing sprees, but they're depressed, neurotic, and anxious, and IMO they've mainly whipped themselves into this condition. It was not like this as recently as five years ago. This all changed practically overnight.

Wait, what?

When I was in college (which was a good academic college that required effort) I was maybe in classes 4 hrs. per day and had plenty of free time to study while still spending hours per day playing sports and dating and doing all the wonderful nothing stuff college life offers. I never once remember thinking, "man, this is too much?" I also don't recall it being a huge deal to skip a class here or there.

Have class hours changed or something that a day is a big deal and more days off are needed?

He was talking about his co-faculty peers. Adult adults.

 

[Zow]

Mental illness is also not a new thing in the last few decades.

Couldn't disagree more.

I am surrounded by perfectly healthy adult coworkers who Absolutely Will Not Shut Up about much they're struggling with "mental well-being." This won't kick in for several years because we plan this way ahead, but we are going to start baking "mental health days" into our academic calendar so students don't have to sit through five days of class every week. (We get all the federal and state holidays too -- we're not one of those schools where classes are in session on Veterans Day or MLK Day).

These people don't have schizophrenia and they're not going to go on killing sprees, but they're depressed, neurotic, and anxious, and IMO they've mainly whipped themselves into this condition. It was not like this as recently as five years ago. This all changed practically overnight.

Wait, what?

When I was in college (which was a good academic college that required effort) I was maybe in classes 4 hrs. per day and had plenty of free time to study while still spending hours per day playing sports and dating and doing all the wonderful nothing stuff college life offers. I never once remember thinking, "man, this is too much?" I also don't recall it being a huge deal to skip a class here or there.

Have class hours changed or something that a day is a big deal and more days off are needed?

He was talking about his co-faculty peers. Adult adults.

Wait.... what??

 

[Andy Dufresne]

He was talking about his co-faculty peers. Adult adults.

Wait.... what??

Increasing numbers of people are lacking the coping skills to lead adult lives. This should be readily apparent.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Mental illness is also not a new thing in the last few decades. Again, it's a bit of both things.

I’m so happy you said that. I agree wholeheartedly. We used to lock them up from society and have doctors poke and prod them. While that probably wasn’t the best solution, handing them, EBT cards, free condos, cell phones, and Internet, and letting them roam the streets with access to everything sane citizens get is demonstrably worse.

I agree there has been a pendulum shift, and maybe it's gone too far.

Where I am going is that it seems like damn near every one of these types of shootings (specifically this, church/mall/school type shooting), after the fact we are left scratching our heads as to why this person has access to guns and why they aren't getting help. Most of these recent ones - here, Buffalo, etc.. have had advanced warnings and clear red flags but nothing was done and there are roadblocks to a solution.

It feels like we ALL can agree - this person was in crisis, needed help, and shouldn't have had guns. Great, now what? Should he have been detained against his will this summer? Often nothing can be done if the patient doesn't volunteer. Should the police have gone and taken his guns once he said he heard voices about shooting up a base? If they did, in Maine without red flags could he have turned around and bought more guns? I'm not claiming to have all the answers here, just asking questions and trying to prod people and see where their thresholds are.

 

[KarmaPolice]

With everyone seemingly owning guns to protect themselves, have any of these shootings had people shooting back? Honest question I dont know the answer to, but you'd think with all the mass shootings, someone would've shot back by now.

Again walking a line here, but if you go to a certain network's website that rhymes with Mox News, there are weekly stories about good guy/gal with a gun stopping a violent crime or defending themselves. If accurate, it happens somewhat frequently.

These are never covered by other MSM outlets because it would fly in the face of the narrative they wish to advance.

On the flip side, FOX would probably be slow to cover many accidental shootings or things like that which would put guns in a more negative light. These sources know and cater to their viewers.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Mental illness is also not a new thing in the last few decades. Again, it's a bit of both things.

I’m so happy you said that. I agree wholeheartedly. We used to lock them up from society and have doctors poke and prod them. While that probably wasn’t the best solution, handing them, EBT cards, free condos, cell phones, and Internet, and letting them roam the streets with access to everything sane citizens get is demonstrably worse.

I agree there has been a pendulum shift, and maybe it's gone too far.

Where I am going is that it seems like damn near every one of these types of shootings (specifically this, church/mall/school type shooting), after the fact we are left scratching our heads as to why this person has access to guns and why they aren't getting help. Most of these recent ones - here, Buffalo, etc.. have had advanced warnings and clear red flags but nothing was done and there are roadblocks to a solution.

It feels like we ALL can agree - this person was in crisis, needed help, and shouldn't have had guns. Great, now what? Should he have been detained against his will this summer? Often nothing can be done if the patient doesn't volunteer. Should the police have gone and taken his guns once he said he heard voices about shooting up a base? If they did, in Maine without red flags could he have turned around and bought more guns? I'm not claiming to have all the answers here, just asking questions and trying to prod people and see where their thresholds are.

We are on the same page.

I’m pro 2nd as they come but agree we need to put measures into place to prevent crimes like this.

 

[Manster]

I don't know if this has been discussed in here - haven't read the whole thread. But I haven't seen it discussed on TV at all, and to me it's a big question that I'm having a hard time understanding given the little info we have so far.

And that's that in a smallish town like this, how did no police get to either shooting location to engage the shooter before he left? There almost had to be at least one officer within seconds of both sites when calls came in, I would think. It's not like they have two cops on duty in the whole town.

Why is no one asking about this? I'd hate to think this is another Uvalde situation, but it's just a question that's popped into my mind.

Obviously I know nothing, and police have been very tight-lipped so far given that it's still active. That makes sense.

So I'm not criticizing, just wondering. And surprised no one else seems to be wondering.

Where I live seems to be a lot fewer cops

 

[Manster]

Mental illness is also not a new thing in the last few decades. Again, it's a bit of both things.

I’m so happy you said that. I agree wholeheartedly. We used to lock them up from society and have doctors poke and prod them. While that probably wasn’t the best solution, handing them, EBT cards, free condos, cell phones, and Internet, and letting them roam the streets with access to everything sane citizens get is demonstrably worse.

I agree there has been a pendulum shift, and maybe it's gone too far.

Where I am going is that it seems like damn near every one of these types of shootings (specifically this, church/mall/school type shooting), after the fact we are left scratching our heads as to why this person has access to guns and why they aren't getting help. Most of these recent ones - here, Buffalo, etc.. have had advanced warnings and clear red flags but nothing was done and there are roadblocks to a solution.

It feels like we ALL can agree - this person was in crisis, needed help, and shouldn't have had guns. Great, now what? Should he have been detained against his will this summer? Often nothing can be done if the patient doesn't volunteer. Should the police have gone and taken his guns once he said he heard voices about shooting up a base? If they did, in Maine without red flags could he have turned around and bought more guns? I'm not claiming to have all the answers here, just asking questions and trying to prod people and see where their thresholds are.

I feel like if you say voices are telling you to shoot up a place you should immediately be placed in a psych ward.