drummer
Footballguy
http://blog.pressdemocrat.com/49ers/2008/1...rtz-is-out.html
Adam Schefter's early report of he being fired was news to him.
Adam Schefter's early report of he being fired was news to him.
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Mike Martz fired in San Francisco (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter drummer
- Start date
Utter Chaos
Footballguy
Detroit should bring him back. They did win 7 games last year with him.
Max Power
Footballguy
Sadly, this is
I was happy to see him go (from Detroit), but think he might be the answer to make this a 4-5 win team in 09. The problem I still have with martz is that I don't think his system will lead a team to the championship unless he has superior talent to do so.
Doug B
Footballguy
What happened to Martz? He coached up some mediocre talent in Washington before his Rams tenure, then kicked butt with top-shelf talent in St. Louis. His Lions' teams were at least competitive, though nowhere near as good as his Rams squads.
Did the game pass Martz by? Does he not have an answer for teams blitzing the heck out of his offenses?
Did the game pass Martz by? Does he not have an answer for teams blitzing the heck out of his offenses?
MaddHatter
Footballguy
Stick a fork in him.
JamesTheScot
Footballguy
No.Well, he does, he just won't use it.
Weiner Dog
Footballguy
7-step drops. Very little TE and RB blocking help. The team's two best WR's run bombs each every play. The team's mediocre WR's catch all the passes underneath and in the flats.I think Martz is still a very good OC.
Yes his offenses are high risk and high reward but the bottom line is they work.
Last year the Lions coming off a 7-9 season said they had enough of Martz's ways and wanted a more ground oriented offense. Detroit went from the 19th ranked offense averaging 323 yards to the 30th ranked offense averaging 268 yards and of course a 0-16 record.
SF last year was easily the worst ranked offense averaging 237.3 yards. Martz with largely the same personnel turned them into the 23rd ranked offense averaging 311.1 yards. An improvement of nearly 74 yards per game. They also went from 219 pints scored to 339 points. An improvement in points of 55%.
Martz made Hill a respectable QB fantasy wise. SF outside of Gore may become a fantasy wasteland again next year.
Yes his offenses are high risk and high reward but the bottom line is they work.
Last year the Lions coming off a 7-9 season said they had enough of Martz's ways and wanted a more ground oriented offense. Detroit went from the 19th ranked offense averaging 323 yards to the 30th ranked offense averaging 268 yards and of course a 0-16 record.
SF last year was easily the worst ranked offense averaging 237.3 yards. Martz with largely the same personnel turned them into the 23rd ranked offense averaging 311.1 yards. An improvement of nearly 74 yards per game. They also went from 219 pints scored to 339 points. An improvement in points of 55%.
Martz made Hill a respectable QB fantasy wise. SF outside of Gore may become a fantasy wasteland again next year.
identikit
Footballguy
IIRC Hill wasn't even Martz's choice @ qb.
drummer
Footballguy
Hill wasn't. Both Nolan and Martz rigged the QB "competition" to negate Hill, going as far as saying Hill had a sore arm, which was news to Hill. The 49er brass never wanted Martz to begin with. Nolan hired Martz to spite the 49er brass, because they demoted him.
No he wasn't but he didn't try and sabotage Singletary on the move. Instead he tweaked his system to suit Hill and also made the offense a bit more ground oriented down the stretch. I thought he showed himself to be a true professional and his reward was to be fired.I think this is a bad move by SF and I suspect they will regress badly on offense now unless there are huge player upgrades.
identikit
Footballguy
Martz's actions were obviously a ploy to motivate Hill 'fantasy wise'. 
identikit
Footballguy
You're right. Singletary would have kicked his *** if he had continued to try to sabotage Hill like he did under Nolan.
CalBear
Footballguy
Your best argument is that he's a good OC because his last two teams finished #19 and #23 in offense?Detroit lost its QB, its leading RB and leading WR.San Francisco did not have "largely the same personnel"--they had a different QB and several new receivers, including their new receiving leader. And here's a prediction--Detroit will have a better offense in 2009 than it did in 2008. Whenever you take over a complete disaster, it's easy to make progress. It's just not easy to turn them into a good unit, and Martz hasn't shown any ability to do that.
True. Martz had no relationship with the teams management and he was Nolan's choice. But he still did a good job as OC and really that is hard to deny. This firing is more about internal politics than performance. It also seems to me the SF "brass" is very unprofessional and I doubt this organization will turn the corner under their reign.
jdoggydogg
Footballguy
This a bonehead move by SF unless they replace Martz with someone as good or better. Steve Young was on the local San Francizco sports radio station the other day for his weekly show. Young adamently stated that the 49ers cannot expect success when they repeatedly replace their offensive coordinators almost every year.SF has done an awful job drafting talent over the last few years. That is a systemic organizational problem that Martz has little to do with. Aside from Frank Gore, who has SF drafted that is a top skill player on offense? And Gore was definitely a gamble given his serious knee injuries.I like Singletary. Seems like a great guy. But my gut tells me that this is a bad move. Most of the great NFL head coaches are not "player's coaches." Parcells, Coughlin, Belicheck, players respect these guys despite their prickly personalities. I don't have evidence to base this on, but I think Singletary gets fired two years from now after two consecutive 6-10 seasons.
identikit
Footballguy
Funny, I see Singletary more like them than not.
He had little to work with in either city. Kitna was a career journeyman Back-up and Roy Williams was an overrated WR.SF has 2 career journeyman backup QB's ,an over the hill top WR and a shaky OL. Yet he still improved the offense from last by a mile to respectability.I understand Martz is probably an arrogant jerk but he is an arrogant jerk who knows how to run an offense. SF will regress both in real terms and in fantasy terms without him.
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CalBear
Footballguy
That much we agree on.
Singletary isn't as tough as that original press conference would suggest. The players were cheering when the GM announced he was staying on. Do you think the Giants players would have cheered a similiar announcement about Coughlin after his first season with new york? Far from it.I think Singletary is a players friendly coach. Even after he ripped into V.Davis he went out of his way to praise him afterwards. Calling him the best blocking TE in the league.That being said I think he can be an effective coach given the right circumstances. I don't see those circumstances developing in SF.
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CalBear
Footballguy
He also had Calvin Johnson last year--just didn't do anything with him. The last two years Kitna was a starter before he went to Detroit, he led the #13 and #12 passing offenses. Frank Gore is one of the top five RBs in the league; if the QBs and WRs are so bad, why did Gore get just 240 carries? Gore also had 10 fewer receptions than 2007.
St. Louis Bob
Footballguy
Yeah, it was all Martz's fault. 
Because he was hurt maybe? D. Foster had 76 carries which were mostly when Gore was hurting(55 of them actually). Safe to say Gore would have had close to 300 carries this year if he stayed healthy. Not too bad actually.
Calvin Johnson played most of 2007 hurt He got hurt in week 3 and wasn't fully healthy until late in the season. He also was still learning. 756 yards in a rookie year actually is pretty good by WR standards though
renesauz
IBL Representative
Martz has been somewhat over-rated for a while now. Even if you like his results (which we can debate), his style/method is NOT one every head coach is/can be comfortable with. It's a new head coach, why should this be a surprise? Further, why is it automaticly a bad move?
Hipple Long Ware & Peete
Footballguy
I'll bet the colts players cheered Tony Dungees extention. And the colt's suspend players for Off field stuff al the time. There's a difference between being a disciplinarian and being a ####.
Watch and learn. If Sf improves on offense next year you can call me an idiot and bump this thread. They won't though just like Detroit didn't this year.Going into this year there were high expectations of the Lions offense. But it all fell apart.
It doesn't reall matter what style of coach you are anyways. Any style can be effective. Singletary certainly has potential as a head coach but he is going to be dealing with idiots in the front office and that is hard to overcome
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
WOW..I forgot that Detroit won 7 last year. Losing 23 of 24 will do that to your memory.
dude, calvin was a rookie last year and he injured his back rendering him ineffective in a bunch of games. when he was healthy on the field he was a very good wr and outstanding for a rookie.he started 10 games and put up 48 for 756 and 4 tds.he opened the season with 199 yds and 2 tds in the first 3 games despite getting injured midway thru the third. he missed week 4 and was pedestrian for the next few weeks and not the starter. i think his injury was the factor. so does martz."News: In a conversation with ex-Lions offensive coordinator Mike Martz at the NFL Combine, MLive.com reports that per Martz, WR Calvin Johnson seriously hurt his back in Week 3, missed Week 4 because of it, and played hurt the rest of the season. This was why Johnson struggled in 2007, not because he didn't pick up Martz's complex offensive scheme. "Calvin got hurt in that Philadelphia game and he never recovered the rest of the year," Martz said. "He was never 100 percent the rest of the year. In fact, there were games he really struggled to play and maybe shouldn't have played, I don't know. It was important to him to play and you've got to give him credit. He fought through it pretty good.""
renesauz
IBL Representative
From the tone of many of these posts...you'd think they were a top ten team now! (instead of fighting to break into the top 20)Puuuuhhhh-leeeease
Max Power
Footballguy
Thats what happens when a team loses its top 2 qbs. Not sure any NFL team could produce much with a third string QB or DanteETA: why do you want to talk offense only? Martz runs high risk/high reward style offense. While it does put points on the board, it turns the ball over a lot, is usually a league leader in 3- and outs, and hurts the D with little rest and generally bad field position. As the poster said, this style isn't for ever head coach.
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right bc if a coach doesnt take the worst offense in the league and turn it into one of the best in 1 freakin year hes a failure.
renesauz
IBL Representative
No...but he's not a screaming success either. You've missed the point though. Martz's style is unique, and is hard on QB's, and their own defense. His offense is NOT one many head coaches are comfortable with. San Fran could be the #10 offense and he might still be fired because it won't fit the philosophy of the new HC.
MisconceptionSF ranked 32nd is time of possession in 2007. They ranked 19th is time of possession this year.
drummer
Footballguy
The TOP changed when Sing took over the team. Before that, it was pretty abysmal.
renesauz
IBL Representative
Not very compelling. When you're dead last...there's really nowhere to go BUT up.The offense improved..NOBODY is disputing that. It's the uncomfortable, demanding style that was fired, not Martz's skill at teaching/using that style.
Does that make more sense?
Max Power
Footballguy
I see you didn't want to touch that league leader in turnovers, fumbles and fumbles lost part.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
He can go to New England when Josh McDaniels becomes a head coach somewhere.
renesauz
IBL Representative
Do you really think that Belichek would want his Offensive system? I can't see it.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
I doubt it would ever happen, but with Moss, Brady (if healthy), and decent pass protection NE could put up even crazier numbers than last year.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Fixed.
From what I have heard, Martz manages to piss off management everywhere he goes. At some point, that become more important than being a good OC.
puckalicious
Footballguy
The sad part is the Lions offense wasn't the reason they went 0-16. With even an average D they probably could have won 5 games. I think Chase Stewart posted in another thread that the Lions D was not only bad this year, but historically bad. They were last in the league by a mile.
Well actually from the sounds of it in SF it wasn't that he pissed off management in SF it was that he never even communicated with them. He was Nolan's hire and the GM had never even talked with Martz for more than 2 minutes since Martz was hired in SF.IT doesn't sound like Singletary had a problem with Martz but instead that Martz is just not managements guy.
http://blog.pressdemocrat.com/49ers/2008/1...-fired-yet.html
This morning when ESPN reported Martz was fired, Martz was still in his office and hadn't heard a word from management yet. He never had any discussion with anybody from management after the season whatsoever.
I can understand if he isn't their man but they sure didn't handle it professionally either. Do you really want a GM who has never talked to his OC for more than 2 minutes? Like is said earlier I think SF has stumbled into a good coach in Singletary but unless their management gets their act together they are going nowhere fast.
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drummer
Footballguy
Mike Nolan is an idiot. Martz was a desperate hire in order to save his job, knowing that it was against what the original plan of how the team was being built in the first place. Martz wasn't a popular choice with the Yorks. The Yorks, from earlier reports, are close friends with Jay Zygmunt, Martz's nemesis in STL. Nolan blindsided them with Martz, and he blindsided ScotM with Martz as well. Nolan was going out swinging, and Martz pretty much shut the door down on Alex Smith, ScotM's boy. According to Mike Silver, the Yorks wanted Nolan fired after last season. ScotM convinced the Yorks for Nolan to stay another year. Even after Nolan was stripped of power, he still though of himself as "the face of the organization". His arrogance and stupidity did him in. ScotM never considered Martz for the OC position before Nolan hired him. ScotM told the press days before that Martz's brand of offense didn't fit the talent of the team. Nolan hires Martz a few days later. Mike Nolan should never be a Head Coach in the NFL again. If he is, good luck to the team who is stupid enough to hire him.
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