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MNF**Chicago at New England** (-8.5) (40) (1 Viewer)

Ministry of Pain

Footballguy
Is Lisa Salters going to try and ask Bill why he didn't put Mac Jones back into the football game after he said he was using both QBs at halftime?
Sound like Belichick was messing with her head
 

Hot Sauce Guy

Footballguy
Stevenson even with Harris back over 20 PPR points.

That’s 3 out of the last 4 over 20.

Dude’s been everything I hoped for in redraft. Wish I had him in dynasty.
 

The Frankman

Footballguy
Zappe has been pretty bad in the 2nd half. I mean we clowning on Jones but when we look at the numbers 1st and 2nd half for Zappe, they'll tell an ugly story.
 

rockaction

Footballguy
Huh? They did punt, but why wouldn't you (feebly) attempt to draw them offsides first? What's the downside?

Game's too over for half-heartened shenanigans. Punt the ball or go for it. You're not drawing anyone off with a half-assed snap count with everybody going through the motions, anyway. Let those sleeping dogs lie.
 

rockaction

Footballguy
For everybody celebrating the end of the NFL/DirecTV contract, this is what football is going to look like. ESPN+ gets exclusive rights to the Denver/Jacksonville game next week. Games are going to be on many different platforms, none of which will all be available to the average consumer. DirecTV will look a total bargain compared to what they're doing by fragmenting all the games over premium, paid networks.
 

Drake Hater

Footballguy
For everybody celebrating the end of the NFL/DirecTV contract, this is what football is going to look like. ESPN+ gets exclusive rights to the Denver/Jacksonville game next week. Games are going to be on many different platforms, none of which will all be available to the average consumer. DirecTV will look a total bargain compared to what they're doing by fragmenting all the games over premium, paid networks.

DirecTV days will be like the golden era.
 

humpback

Footballguy
They punted.

Did you earn a Captain Obvious badge at work today? You're earning it in your personal life.

How's Le'Veon doing, by the way? Equitably paid?
I have no idea what you're talking about, but are you seriously complaining about something so innocuous? It literally made their punt easier to execute, would you have preferred they ***** slapped someone and got a personal foul instead? JFC.
 

Hot Sauce Guy

Footballguy
For everybody celebrating the end of the NFL/DirecTV contract, this is what football is going to look like. ESPN+ gets exclusive rights to the Denver/Jacksonville game next week. Games are going to be on many different platforms, none of which will all be available to the average consumer. DirecTV will look a total bargain compared to what they're doing by fragmenting all the games over premium, paid networks.
To be fair, it’s probably for the best that no one sees that game.
 

rockaction

Footballguy
I have no idea what you're talking about, but are you seriously complaining about something so innocuous?

I wasn't making a federal case about it until you took up the cause, Captain Jack.

As for Le'Veon, I have you confused with another poster it seems. Sorry.
 

humpback

Footballguy
I have no idea what you're talking about, but are you seriously complaining about something so innocuous?

I wasn't making a federal case about it until you took up the cause, Captain Jack.

As for Le'Veon, I have you confused with another poster it seems. Sorry.
Didn't take up the cause, just thought it was completely innocent. You basically said the coach is clueless because of that play- sorry, that's absurd. I'd bet that most coaches would do the same thing in that situation, and I think Eberflus sucks. There is literally zero downside, why not?

Apology accepted on the latter.
 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
Zappe mostly avoiding questions or telling reporters to talk to BB in post game presser. Looks really uncomfortable. Mac also said to be taking questions soon. Oh boy. What a mess.
 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
BB said the plan all along was to play both QB. Mac INT had nothing to do with it. Said if game was competitive, the plan was to put Jones back in. Also said he doesn’t plan to keep switching QB moving forward. Insulates they will pick a starting QB. No answers on who will start against the Jets.
 

FairWarning

Footballguy
You want to see panic? All the Mac Jones card speculators who invested 4-5 figures in his cards are losing it today.

What a great day.
 

Ministry of Pain

Footballguy
IIRC the Bears stunned everyone and jumped out 10-0
The crowd in the stands starts chanting for Zappe and booing Jones, very Roman Colosseum and Belichick gives them what they want
Zappe leads the Patriots right down the field and throws a TD to a WR who crawls over the goal line and cuts the lead to 10-7
Zappe takes the field again and drives the Patriots down for another TD, this time Stevenson plunges it in and it's 14-10 Patriots
14-10 Pats and the crowd at Gillette is full on bananas with "ZappeMania!" coined by Troy Aikman, the grand new voice of Monday Night Football
And then they had to play the remainder of the football game and the Bears destroyed them 23-0 the rest of the way to win 33-14
I think all that happened as I passed out as Scott Van Pelt was ready to come on with SC
 
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Ministry of Pain

Footballguy
Rhamondre Stevenson has 25 catches and is on pace to surpass 50+ catches this season. the 8 last night had a lot to do with garbage time and the Patriots down 2-3 scores but still his volume remains high. On pace for over 1500+ yds, 50+ catches and about 10 TDs

#9 RB overall in PPR
 

jurrassic

Footballguy
For being arguably the greatest defensive mind of the last 20 years, this is one the worst defensive game plans ever by Belichick. Literally, the only real threat on the Bears offense is Fields running. They employed no spies and let him break off huge chunks and rush for 82 yards in the game. It’s baffling and incomprehensible as to what their defensive game plan was.
 
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fatness

against the grain
For being arguably the greatest defensive mind of the last 20 years, this is one the worst defensive game plans ever by Belichick. Literally, the only on real threat on the Bears offense is Fields running. They employed no spies and let him break off huge chunks and rush for 82 yards in the game. It’s baffling and incomprehensible as to what their defensive game plan was.
Actually at some point in the second half the Patriots did have a spy on Fields. It was a defensive lineman. The Mannings were laughing at that.
 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
For being arguably the greatest defensive mind of the last 20 years, this is one the worst defensive game plans ever by Belichick. Literally, the only on real threat on the Bears offense is Fields running. They employed no spies and let him break off huge chunks and rush for 82 yards in the game. It’s baffling and incomprehensible as to what their defensive game plan was.
The Pats have a problem with mobile / athletic QBs. They can get pressure but can't tackle them, and since they predominantly play man coverage, once the QB steps out of the pocket, he's off to the races. They have used spies before . . . whether that be a safety, a linebacker, or an extra lineman. It hasn't helped any. The spy has to be faster than the QB. When they switch to zone, they get picked apart once the QB wriggles free. Guys like Allen and Lamar kill them.

A lot of credit needs to go to the Bears. They completely schemed up a different offense to play NE. They wasn't any game film on the formations and plays they were running, and NE was not expecting what they were running. They fare much better facing pocket passers, as they can put a big X on the field and figure out where to go from there. You can't do that when the point of attack keeps moving.

The strangest part of last night was NE looked woeful unprepared. The defense fought hard initially, but then they ran out of steam from getting mauled by the end of the game. The NE OL had way too many penalties and dumb mistakes. It doesn't matter who is the QB when every series you are looking at 20 yards to gain a first down deep in your own territory. And their punter kept kicking 30-yard punts that set up the Bears in NE territory. A bad night all around.

The odd part is, against other, better teams, they might look like a great team again. NE these days is very Jeckyl and Hyde. You don't know what you'll get from week to week. NE normally has an unusually bad loss each year. It wouldn't surprise me if they come back and beat the Jets 42-3. And it wouldn't surprise me if they look inept and lose 42-3.
 
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TripleThreat

Footballguy
If the Bears can figure out how to use Fields
who doesn't like BB getting embarrassed at home prime time?

Probably their next opponents
Following losses by 17 points or more, since Brady took over, NE went 12-3 the following game. But since Brady left, NE has gone 1-3 after similar losses.

https://twitter.com/SalSports/status/1584749479806148608?s=20&t=fZTaKG0IPZv3FKkDBaYWXA

@SalSports

Bill Belichick has now coached 157 regular season games with someone other than Tom Brady as his starting QB). He's 74-83 (.484) in those contests.
 

SeniorVBDStudent

Footballguy
If the Bears can figure out how to use Fields
who doesn't like BB getting embarrassed at home prime time?

Probably their next opponents
Following losses by 17 points or more, since Brady took over, NE went 12-3 the following game. But since Brady left, NE has gone 1-3 after similar losses.
https://twitter.com/SalSports/status/1584749479806148608?s=20&t=fZTaKG0IPZv3FKkDBaYWXA
@SalSports

Bill Belichick has now coached 157 regular season games with someone other than Tom Brady as his starting QB). He's 74-83 (.484) in those contests.

This reminds me of implied air yards. Its a contrived stat that doesn't tell the whole story. BB had completed about 90% of the Browns turnaround when Modell pulled the rug out from him and moved the franchise to Baltimore. If you genuinely believe the last 20 years of the Patriots story is based on TB12, I suggest you watch this past weekend's Panthers game.
 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
If the Bears can figure out how to use Fields
who doesn't like BB getting embarrassed at home prime time?

Probably their next opponents
Following losses by 17 points or more, since Brady took over, NE went 12-3 the following game. But since Brady left, NE has gone 1-3 after similar losses.
https://twitter.com/SalSports/status/1584749479806148608?s=20&t=fZTaKG0IPZv3FKkDBaYWXA
@SalSports

Bill Belichick has now coached 157 regular season games with someone other than Tom Brady as his starting QB). He's 74-83 (.484) in those contests.
This shouldn't be surprising. Bill Walsh was 15-24-1 without Montana. Chuck Noll was 86-97-1 without Bradshaw. Tom Landry never went to a SB in a season where Staubach didn't play. It took Andy Reid 21 years and Mahomes to finally win a SB. It's not uncommon for great coaches to achieve great things with great QBs. Shocking, I know.

As far as BB and TB goes, sure, Brady was the main cog in the second set of NE titles. But he was more of a passenger and game manager in the early 2000s with the defense, coaching, and run game leading the way. And it's not like Brady was a first overall pick. He needed to be drafted, developed, and seasoned . . . far more than the Elways and Mannings of the world. Does BB get any credit for that?
 

SeniorVBDStudent

Footballguy
For being arguably the greatest defensive mind of the last 20 years, this is one the worst defensive game plans ever by Belichick. Literally, the only on real threat on the Bears offense is Fields running. They employed no spies and let him break off huge chunks and rush for 82 yards in the game. It’s baffling and incomprehensible as to what their defensive game plan was.
The strangest part of last night was NE looked woeful unprepared. The defense fought hard initially, but then they ran out of steam from getting mauled by the end of the game. The NE OL had way too many penalties and dumb mistakes. It doesn't matter who is the QB when every series you are looking at 20 yards to gain a first down deep in your own territory. And their punter kept kicking 30-yard punts that set up the Bears in NE territory. A bad night all around.
If there is an untold story here, I wonder if Bill has downshifted to a less hands-on approach and is happy at this stage to let Patricia, Judge, Steve Belichick and others bear the yoke of what happens week to week, content to counsel others and rack up (less frequent) wins to catch Shula in 2-3 years. Previously, its been discussed that at this stage of his career he's exercising the luxury of working with who he wants to work with, coaching who he wants to coach, etc. We're all aware of some of the interesting Brady / Kraft / Belichick dynamics that have gone down over the course of the last 4 years...its not entirely impossible to me that at least a smidge of going through the motions hasn't crept into his leadership personna.

The flipside of that argument is that he's the Tiger Woods of football, having no life outside of football, no interaction with anyone outside the bubble, and a pathological pursuit of success.

But, as you noted, looking "woefully unprepared" doesn't jibe with the historical BB experience.

If nothing else it will be interesting to see what happens from here.
 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
For being arguably the greatest defensive mind of the last 20 years, this is one the worst defensive game plans ever by Belichick. Literally, the only on real threat on the Bears offense is Fields running. They employed no spies and let him break off huge chunks and rush for 82 yards in the game. It’s baffling and incomprehensible as to what their defensive game plan was.
The strangest part of last night was NE looked woeful unprepared. The defense fought hard initially, but then they ran out of steam from getting mauled by the end of the game. The NE OL had way too many penalties and dumb mistakes. It doesn't matter who is the QB when every series you are looking at 20 yards to gain a first down deep in your own territory. And their punter kept kicking 30-yard punts that set up the Bears in NE territory. A bad night all around.
If there is an untold story here, I wonder if Bill has downshifted to a less hands-on approach and is happy at this stage to let Patricia, Judge, Steve Belichick and others bear the yoke of what happens week to week, content to counsel others and rack up (less frequent) wins to catch Shula in 2-3 years. Previously, its been discussed that at this stage of his career he's exercising the luxury of working with who he wants to work with, coaching who he wants to coach, etc. We're all aware of some of the interesting Brady / Kraft / Belichick dynamics that have gone down over the course of the last 4 years...its not entirely impossible to me that at least a smidge of going through the motions hasn't crept into his leadership personna.

The flipside of that argument is that he's the Tiger Woods of football, having no life outside of football, no interaction with anyone outside the bubble, and a pathological pursuit of success.

But, as you noted, looking "woefully unprepared" doesn't jibe with the historical BB experience.

If nothing else it will be interesting to see what happens from here.
Many years ago, BB once said he couldn't see himself coaching until he was 70 (which is his age now). I heard him on the radio saying he loves coaching more than ever (perhaps a veiled dig at Brady). He also said he could see himself coaching until he's 80, as there's nothing else he loves doing more than coaching (and he doesn't have anything else he's that passionate about or interested in).

I think there are two issues that don't get enough consideration and discussion. One, with NE having been so successful, their front office and coaching staff have been picked clean over the years, with guys moving on left and right. Many of those people started at the bottom rung in NE and worked their way up. Many times, Bill had to restock the cupboards each year (when other good teams don't necessarily have to do that as often). Second, BB wants to run his system his way and doesn't look for outside coordinators to come in with their own thoughts and ideas. He only wants someone to come in that knows his system or can learn his system. That dramatically reduces the pool of candidates (and is how you end up with guys like Patricia and Judge).

The $64,000 question these past 4 years has been whether the offense / defense / take care of the football brand of football that worked for so many years can still work in the current era of football. There are many more teams that can rattle off two-minute scoring drives no matter how good the defense is. NE used to win by holding onto the ball and winning 17-14. There aren't many games played like that anymore. For now, Patricia / Jones / Zappe are all concerned they will pee down their leg that they all are a little shaken and are concerned they will make a big mistake. That's a confidence thing that needs to get corrected, but I am not sure there is an easy fix to that.
 

rockaction

Footballguy
New England is in last place in the AFC East, soon to be followed by the Breece-less Jets.

But let's focus on the last place right now. It's glorious. They got their asses kicked by a **** team last night. No amount of verbal rationalizations the next day diminish what a physical whooping that was in all phases of the game, as Buck and Aikman rightfully pointed out.
 

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