MSU in the Crosshairs - Lawsuit Alleges MSU Encouraged Woman not to Report Rape by Basketball Players; Ohio State University Doctor Abused 177 Athlete (1 Viewer)

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

Amid Larry Nassar sentencing, top executives of USA Gymnastics Board of Directors resign

 

[Tom Servo]

There was a dad in the room while his daughter was being assaulted.  Larry would block his view and digitally penetrate her, talking to the dad as if he were discussing the weather.
MSU billing a 15 year old victim for treatments from Nassar still.  How tone deaf is this university?

I'd say they don't hear a thing from outside their echo chamber.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Amid Larry Nassar sentencing, top executives of USA Gymnastics Board of Directors resign

Pretty sure that is the very least they can do.  A little late, but better late then never.

Seems like they should be bringing in former members of the program to discuss changes.  Its a really awkward situation to me.  On one hand, it seems like the entire process is detrimental to the development of young girls everywhere - the training, pressure, injuries, time away from families and being just pre-teens seems like it does more harm - than the good of the chosen 6 to make an Olympic squad.

On the other hand - it seems like the sweet spot for women's gymnastics is 16-17, when they are in optimal condition for the combination of strength and flexibility to pull off some amazing athletic feats.

Maybe the US, or international governing body, needs to take a stand and push the age limit from 16 to 18   The US certainly needs to step up and provide an independent outlet for athletes and parents to address medical concerns, or training concerns, or weird people hanging around the program concerns.

Of course, we have heard stories of parents who did not believe their kids - and that is sad.  I don't know whether that is a lack of education - in terms of proper training/medical processes, or over-zealous parents living through their daughters achievements.  Thats why I think you have to create some kind of transparent oversight - that protects the athletes first, and foremost - as they are the most vulnerable in the system.

 

[Tom Servo]

Seems like they should be bringing in former members of the program to discuss changes.  Its a really awkward situation to me.  On one hand, it seems like the entire process is detrimental to the development of young girls everywhere - the training, pressure, injuries, time away from families and being just pre-teens seems like it does more harm - than the good of the chosen 6 to make an Olympic squad.

On the other hand - it seems like the sweet spot for women's gymnastics is 16-17, when they are in optimal condition for the combination of strength and flexibility to pull off some amazing athletic feats.

Maybe the US, or international governing body, needs to take a stand and push the age limit from 16 to 18   The US certainly needs to step up and provide an independent outlet for athletes and parents to address medical concerns, or training concerns, or weird people hanging around the program concerns.

Of course, we have heard stories of parents who did not believe their kids - and that is sad.  I don't know whether that is a lack of education - in terms of proper training/medical processes, or over-zealous parents living through their daughters achievements.  Thats why I think you have to create some kind of transparent oversight - that protects the athletes first, and foremost - as they are the most vulnerable in the system.

I may be wrong about this, but doesn't US soccer on the men's side have similar issues with respect to developing talent (obviously not the sexual assault part)? I mean, both sports aren't especially geared to get no one other than rich kids whose parents can throw all kinds of cash for lessons, training, development, etc.

 

[mr. furley]

There was a dad in the room while his daughter was being assaulted.  Larry would block his view and digitally penetrate her, talking to the dad as if he were discussing the weather.

MSU billing a 15 year old victim for treatments from Nassar still.  How tone deaf is this university?

not to suggest that even 5% of these doctors are assaulting their patients but.... what can be done here if even having a parent in the room isn't enough to deter an offender? the guy probably had zero idea that anything out of the ordinary was going on.. how could he?

how do you live with yourself after that? that poor girl but the poor dad.. my god. he has to just feel utterly worthless for not being able to stop this from happening to his daughter.

 

[Sinn Fein]

not to suggest that even 5% of these doctors are assaulting their patients but.... what can be done here if even having a parent in the room isn't enough to deter an offender? the guy probably had zero idea that anything out of the ordinary was going on.. how could he?

how do you live with yourself after that? that poor girl but the poor dad.. my god. he has to just feel utterly worthless for not being able to stop this from happening to his daughter.

USA Gymnastics should absolutely set up an independent board (group?) where you can raise concerns about treatment, training etc.

As a parent, obviously you need to be vigilant - ask questions, get explanations from the doctor/coach/trainer.  If something feels wrong, or if your daughter tells you she is uncomfortable - i think, as a parent, you have to treat those concerns seriously - not that every concern is a sexual assault - but if your daughter is uncomfortable - you have to ask the questions, and I think you need an independent source to discuss things and reach a point where you and your daughter are comfortable with the treatment - and if you don't reach that point, move on.

But, I worry with many of these girls, parents will gloss over complaints and push their daughters to accept that things are difficult or uncomfortable to reach the elite level.  Which is why the athletes need a place to address their concerns outside the system - in case the system is the problem...

 

[General Malaise]

ESPN did a very thorough job with their story on this.  The entire culture of gymnastics needs examination, which it sounds like it will now get, albeit way too late to prevent some of the abuse.  The coach was a real POS too and his bad cop theatrics and tyrannical rule helped germinate the good guy cop routine of Nassar who offered the girls a reprieve from the oppression.  From the article:

 

JOHN GEDDERT, ONE of the nation's preeminent gymnastics coaches, was everything Larry Nassar was not.

"John was in his 30s, an extremely good-looking, fit guy, super charismatic. When John was in a good mood or playful or approved of you it was like a drug, you wanted more of it," Jane says about her training with him as a girl.

Nassar, by comparison, was socially awkward, even "nerdy," she says. But still, "like a Labrador puppy, the sweetest guy. Safe."

The two men were all but inseparable, professionally and socially. They worked together for more than 25 years, first at Great Lakes Gymnastics and, starting in 1996, at the gym Geddert owns now, Twistars USA Gymnastics Club near East Lansing. They worked the 2012 Olympics together. Geddert was in Nassar's wedding party when Nassar got married in East Lansing in 1996. They attended each other's house parties and traveled the country and, later, the world together at competitions. They vouched for each other when faced with career-threatening circumstances.

The two men were joined at Great Lakes Gymnastics by a mutual friend, Kathie Klages, who worked at the club for five years before leaving to become head coach of the women's gymnastics team at Michigan State University. Together, Klages and Geddert coached some of the area's best gymnasts, many of whom later competed in Spartan green. Nassar was there to treat them when their bodies broke down.

Geddert's coaching style was largely based on fear and intimidation, according to Jane and dozens of others who spoke with Outside the Lines over the past year, a group that includes current and former gymnasts, parents of gymnasts, coaches who have worked alongside Geddert, and other gym employees. Many of those contacted said they were reluctant to speak publicly about Geddert because they either have children involved in gymnastics in the Lansing area or careers in the sport and they are mindful of the power he wields.

Geddert joined Great Lakes as head coach in 1984 and helped build the gym into a national powerhouse. In the workout area, he frequently could be overheard screaming at his gymnasts, reducing many to tears. He threw things. He routinely denied gymnasts water until they performed exercises to his satisfaction, former gymnasts say.

"John's very good at emotional manipulation. He can make you feel like nothing very quickly," says a former office manager of Geddert's at Twistars, Priscilla Kintigh, who was coached by Geddert at Great Lakes in the mid-1980s and whose son trained at Twistars. "Larry was the one to calm the girls down when they had a practice with John. If I had a daughter, there's no way I would have taken her to Great Lakes or Twistars."

The sport demands a remarkable amount of time and commitment from those competing at its highest levels: four-and-a-half hour practices Monday through Friday; five-hour practices on Saturday. Injuries are commonplace. Parents were allowed to observe practices from the galleries at Great Lakes and later Twistars but, given the long hours, most preferred to drop their children off, entrusting them to Geddert and his fellow coaches.

In the hyper-competitive environment in which the fiery head coach lorded over the gym, Nassar's training room at Great Lakes offered an escape, former gymnasts told Outside the Lines. It was tucked behind the vault and balance beam, through a heavy metal door with a single small window that Nassar often covered with a sheet while treating gymnasts. A parent would have had to walk across the entire workout floor to get to the training room, and few ever did.

Jane, the former gymnast, remembers being alone with Nassar on multiple occasions, lying on his training-room table as he penetrated her rectum with his bare fingers, ostensibly to treat her injured back. She can't recall the precise dates of those sessions but said they occurred around the same time she visited his apartment, in 1992-93, when she was 12 or 13 years old. She never told her parents or anyone else at the time about what happened with Nassar, who wasn't yet a physician. He never sought parental consent.

"It wasn't even a thought of anything's wrong," she says now. Nassar, after all, was "the good cop" to Geddert's bad cop, the smiling trainer who helped gymnasts decompress from the pressure-cooker environment Geddert created outside of the training room door.

"John and Larry were like this perfect storm," Kintigh said. "You become so unapproachable that your own gymnasts don't feel comfortable telling you what's going on. There's no way any of the girls would have felt comfortable saying anything to John [about Larry]. Kids were terrified of him."

Nassar started working with Geddert at Great Lakes the same year he started medical school at Michigan State. By then, Nassar was an accomplished athletic trainer who had volunteered at the 1987 Pan American Games and 1988 Olympic gymnastics trials, treating members of the U.S. women's national team. Nassar volunteered at Great Lakes about 20 hours a week, a demanding schedule for a medical student. He once failed a biochemistry exam after he'd worked a weekend gymnastics competition. "After 2 semesters in medical school, I was kicked out," Nassar wrote in a September 2015 Facebook post about that time in his life.

With his future in doubt, it was Geddert who came to Nassar's aid, writing a letter to the dean of Michigan State's College of Osteopathic Medicine, saying he wouldn't allow Nassar back in his gym until he completed medical school. Nassar was ultimately readmitted at MSU and told he could complete his degree in five years rather than four.

His absence from Great Lakes lasted a month.

In the years that followed, Nassar and Geddert rose to greater prominence within the gymnastics world. In 1996, Nassar became national medical coordinator for the sport's governing body, USA Gymnastics, a position that made him part of an iconic Olympic moment that same year: He helped Team USA gymnast Kerri Strug to the bench in Atlanta after she was injured on the vault. He frequently impressed young gymnasts in and around Lansing with ribbons and posters he'd bring to them as gifts from his travels to international competitions.

Geddert would go on to become the most decorated women's gymnastics coach in state history, coaching more than 50 U.S. national team members, including his most accomplished athlete, Jordyn Wieber, a member of the famous "Fierce Five," the gold-medal-winning team from the 2012 London Olympics. Wieber did not respond to ESPN's requests for comment.

Geddert served as head coach of the women's team at the London Games. In recent months, three members of that team, Aly Raisman, McKayla Maroney and Gabby Douglas, have alleged that they, too, were sexually assaulted by Nassar under the guise of medical treatment. Maroney says Nassar abused her when he was alone with her in Texas and in Tokyo.

In the months before and after the London Olympics, Geddert's temper threatened his career. He was accused of assault and battery in two separate incidents at Twistars, according to police reports obtained by Outside the Lines.

In the first incident, reported in November 2011, the parent of a Twistars gymnast, who also worked at the club as a coach, told state police that during a heated argument after an evening practice, Geddert followed her into the parking lot and physically assaulted her by stepping on her foot and chest bumping her to prevent her from leaving. In the second incident, a year later, a gymnast told police Geddert "stepped on her toe, grabbed her arm and pushed her into the wall" to discipline her, according to a police report. Geddert, who told police the 11-year-old "got her ### chewed," denied the allegations of assault and did not face charges in either case.

Shortly after the second alleged incident, the girl's grandmother received a series of text messages from an unexpected source -- Larry Nassar. He pleaded with her not to file charges against Geddert.

"Just ask to drop it, if you are not 100% sure you want to close John's gym and have him banned from USAG for the rest of his life," Nassar texted the girl's grandmother. "If you are able to tell the PA [prosecuting attorney] that you want to drop the case it would go a long way for sure. Remember this is not just about John but also effects [sic] every family at the gym."

Nassar went on to say in the texts, which were reviewed by Outside the Lines: "John just sent a policy out that from now on all staff members are not to be allowed to be with a gymnast alone and not allowed to be in any room without the door being open."

Whether such a policy ever existed at Twistars is unclear, but, if it did, it didn't apply to Nassar. Just as he had years earlier at Great Lakes Gymnastics, Nassar saw hundreds of girls on his training table in a back room at Twistars, alone. Parents would sign up their children to see Nassar on Monday evenings and often wait more than two hours for a chance to be treated by him. Dozens of former Twistars gymnasts now say Nassar sexually abused them during those medical exams.

In the spring and summer of 2014, USA Gymnastics paid Don Brooks, a Lansing private detective, to investigate the history of complaints against Geddert. Among others, Brooks interviewed the former Twistars gymnast who alleged Geddert assaulted her in the locker room, the girl's grandmother said. When reached by phone, Brooks declined to comment about his findings, which he turned over to USA Gymnastics in September 2014. It's unclear what happened to the investigation; USA Gymnastics declined to comment.

Nassar was well aware of the way Geddert worked with gymnasts. What's not clear, even today, is how much Geddert knew about Nassar's serial sexual abuse. On at least one occasion, Geddert walked into the back room of Twistars while Nassar was digitally penetrating a young gymnast, according to the woman's court testimony: "All I remember is him [Nassar] doing the treatment on me with his fingers in my ######, massaging my back with a towel over my butt, and John walking in and making a joke that I guess my back really did hurt."

Jane, the gymnast who took the bath at Nassar's apartment and trained at Great Lakes, says the dynamic in Geddert's gym had led her to conclude that "part of what enabled this is John broke little girls' spirits and bodies, and Larry was there to fix them."

Geddert declined to comment. His attorney did not respond to requests for comment.

 

[mr. furley]

"John's very good at emotional manipulation. He can make you feel like nothing very quickly," says a former office manager of Geddert's at Twistars, Priscilla Kintigh, who was coached by Geddert at Great Lakes in the mid-1980s and whose son trained at Twistars. "Larry was the one to calm the girls down when they had a practice with John. If I had a daughter, there's no way I would have taken her to Great Lakes or Twistars."

this is the article i was talking about earlier.

how on earth could this woman.... coached by this Geddert guy.... send her son to be coached by him if she knew he was "very good at emotional manipulation", and say she would not have sent a daughter there.

it's ok for your son to be berated and manipulated by a coach who is possibly (probably?) covering up his associates molestation? because a young boy is..... better at not being manipulated by an angry adult???

 

[Da Guru]

What GM quoted earlier. Unreal..

Emma Ann Miller, who is just 15 years old, stood next to her mother and addressed the court. Speaking with remarkable poise, Miller explained that she has known Nassar her whole life and considered him to be a male role model and a friend. She also sought treatment from Nassar, who sexually abused her as he did so many others who considered him to be a friend. She said that the last “treatment” she received from Nassar was in August 2016, possibly making her the last child to be assaulted by the former physician. Rachael Denhollander filed her report with the MSU police in August 2016, which led to Nassar’s employment termination.

One of the most appalling details in Miller’s statement was when she said that MSU sports medicine clinic is still trying to charge her for her visits to Nassar. “My mom is still getting billed for appointments where I was sexually assaulted,” she said in her statement.

This follows the revelation that at least 14 MSU staffers and representatives knew about Nassar’s abuse beginning as early as 1992. That collection of staffers includes university president Lou Anna Simon, who inexplicably received a vote of confidence from the school’s trustees last Friday.

Aly Raisman was right. It is time to burn it all down.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Aly Raisman was right. It is time to burn it all down.

I agree.  I know there are those in this thread, and in the world in general that don't want innocent people to be harmed, and I get it.  I really do.  And it will suck for the innocent people in the MSU baseball program to have to suffer the loss of their program, or the MSU crew, or whatever other sports they play.  But I really just don't care, and there is a cancer at MSU that we see now, and Nassar wasn't the only tumor - just the most malignant one.  Whatever gave the 14 people at MSU the thought process that they had to protect Nasser, or the athletic department or the school more than these girls needs to be burned down to the ground in full public view so that everyone sees the price paid and the damage done.  The NCAA needs to death penalty the entire MSU athletic department and give all student athletes their unconditional release and ability to transfer immediately.  The board of trustees, the entire board, needs to be removed, including the President, and the legislature needs to freeze all funding to the university until it is done, then empanel a commission to retool the entire university and its culture from the ground up.

And while that is going on, the same thing needs to be done to the USOC and USAGymnastics. 

 

[SWC]

and all of the jagbags who had this reported to them from 1992 on and did absoeffinglutely nothing need to get prosecuted and sued in to a flaming hole in the ground so deep you can see stars out the other side take that to the bank brohans

 

[mr. furley]

why stop at just MSU? or just the USOC or gymnastics?

are those the only places where child molesters are operating and being "protected" or shamefully brushed under the rug?

let's just nuke all of everything and start over. anywhere you look there's going to be a sex offender.. hell.. there are probably some working for my company (there are 60k employees), or where you work.  can't take a chance assuming that someone here/there isn't covering up a serious crime. best to just punish everyone whether or not they have any ####### clue why.

can never be too safe, imo

matter of fact, i saw a spider in my bathroom the other day. called wreckers in to take the whole house down. that'll take of those spiders.

 

[Hawkeye21]

why stop at just MSU? or just the USOC or gymnastics?

are those the only places where child molesters are operating and being "protected" or shamefully brushed under the rug?

let's just nuke all of everything and start over. anywhere you look there's going to be a sex offender.. hell.. there are probably some working for my company (there are 60k employees), or where you work.  can't take a chance assuming that someone here/there isn't covering up a serious crime. best to just punish everyone whether or not they have any ####### clue why.

can never be too safe, imo

matter of fact, i saw a spider in my bathroom the other day. called wreckers in to take the whole house down. that'll take of those spiders.

Wow.  This is really constructive.  Well done.

 

[mr. furley]

Wow.  This is really constructive.  Well done.

THANKS!

i, too, thought it was equally as subtle and finely considered as shutting down the USOC, MSU and USA Gymnastics takes!

 

[Hawkeye21]

THANKS!

i, too, thought it was equally as subtle and finely considered as shutting down the USOC, MSU and USA Gymnastics takes!

If the business you work for is covering up for someone and allowing them to continue molesting children like MSU and PSU then yes, I would shut that business down.  What you stupidly suggested was not similar to this situation.  It's not smart to make jokes on a subject like this.

 

[encaitar]

If the business you work for is covering up for someone and allowing them to continue molesting children like MSU and PSU then yes, I would shut that business down.  What you stupidly suggested was not similar to this situation.  It's not smart to make jokes on a subject like this.

You seriously think that closing an organization that employs thousands of people and educates tens of thousands every year is the right move when something like this comes to light?  If that wasn't a joke, then that in itself is a joke.

There absolutely should be huge punishments handed down and anyone who was given notice of this previously and did nothing should be fired, but to shut down the entire university is just an asinine suggestion.

 

[Hawkeye21]

You seriously think that closing an organization that employs thousands of people and educates tens of thousands every year is the right move when something like this comes to light?  If that wasn't a joke, then that in itself is a joke.

There absolutely should be huge punishments handed down and anyone who was given notice of this previously and did nothing should be fired, but to shut down the entire university is just an asinine suggestion.

It's an extreme example, I agree.  I know it wouldn't happen but I want it to hurt them long term.  I don't think universities like MSU and PSU deserve to continue on with positive national attention like winning games and getting ranked.  I'd like to see them completely cleaned out and start over.  Even ban the name and give it a new one.  Completely start over.

Sorry if my punishment is too harsh.

 

[mr. furley]

It's an extreme example, I agree.  I know it wouldn't happen but I want it to hurt them long term.  I don't think universities like MSU and PSU deserve to continue on with positive national attention like winning games and getting ranked.  I'd like to see them completely cleaned out and start over.  Even ban the name and give it a new one.  Completely start over.

Sorry if my punishment is too harsh.

i mean, why? not to rehash old arguments but what good does that do for kids in the Ag department? or at the teaching school? 

kick them all out of university because an athletic trainer is a criminal?

name or not, the school is still there. the buildings are all there. people in the community are still there. losing thousands of jobs and punishing tens of thousands of kids is a little throwing out the baby with the bath water, no?

 

[mr. furley]

If the business you work for is covering up for someone and allowing them to continue molesting children like MSU and PSU then yes, I would shut that business down.  What you stupidly suggested was not similar to this situation.  It's not smart to make jokes on a subject like this.

if a manager in Mumbai knew one of his employees was committing a crime and didn't tell police.... hourly workers in London and Chicago should lose their jobs? dafuq?

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

@Hawkeye21 BURN IT DOWN

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

I'll admit I haven't followed this story at all until today -- just the headlines and stuff you can't miss.

But holy ####.  The USOC and gymnastics powers that be, and MSU need to be taken out to the woodshed and whipped so hard that no one ever tries to cover up or ignore something like this.

IMO it's far worse than Penn State because all this #### was still going on after Penn State.  Absolutely sickening stuff.  Make them pay.  Screw measured response.

 

[Buzzbait]

why stop at just MSU? or just the USOC or gymnastics?

are those the only places where child molesters are operating and being "protected" or shamefully brushed under the rug?

let's just nuke all of everything and start over. anywhere you look there's going to be a sex offender.. hell.. there are probably some working for my company (there are 60k employees), or where you work.  can't take a chance assuming that someone here/there isn't covering up a serious crime. best to just punish everyone whether or not they have any ####### clue why.

can never be too safe, imo

matter of fact, i saw a spider in my bathroom the other day. called wreckers in to take the whole house down. that'll take of those spiders.

Right, because the magnitude of what happened at MSU & the USOC is possibly on the same scale as what goes on at your workplace. 

Did you think before you typed this? Utterly ridiculous. 

 

[Yankee23Fan]

why stop at just MSU? or just the USOC or gymnastics?

are those the only places where child molesters are operating and being "protected" or shamefully brushed under the rug?

let's just nuke all of everything and start over. anywhere you look there's going to be a sex offender.. hell.. there are probably some working for my company (there are 60k employees), or where you work.  can't take a chance assuming that someone here/there isn't covering up a serious crime. best to just punish everyone whether or not they have any ####### clue why.

can never be too safe, imo

matter of fact, i saw a spider in my bathroom the other day. called wreckers in to take the whole house down. that'll take of those spiders.

Thanks.

 

[Politician Spock]

You seriously think that closing an organization that employs thousands of people and educates tens of thousands every year is the right move when something like this comes to light?  If that wasn't a joke, then that in itself is a joke.

There absolutely should be huge punishments handed down and anyone who was given notice of this previously and did nothing should be fired, but to shut down the entire university is just an asinine suggestion.

I'm really only looking at this from the NCAA level. I don't know what it would take to shut down an entire university, and I'm not even sure how I feel if that would be appropriate. I do 100% feel that the NCAA should give MSU the death penalty. The purpose of the NCAA is to protect student athletes.(well, that purpose has really morphed over the decades, but protecting the student athletes was the original reason for its creation), and it's clear that the NCAA can't trust MSU. There is something culturally wrong there. Seriously.  

 

[ConstruxBoy]

It's an extreme example, I agree.  I know it wouldn't happen but I want it to hurt them long term.  I don't think universities like MSU and PSU deserve to continue on with positive national attention like winning games and getting ranked.  I'd like to see them completely cleaned out and start over.  Even ban the name and give it a new one.  Completely start over.

Sorry if my punishment is too harsh.

I mean, all your posts add in “PSU” when they aren’t being mentioned by most other posters. I think my point is made. 

 

[Dedfin]

I see plenty of circling the wagons in threads like these.  I don't understand it, but I guess it's people's nature.  I know for certain if anything like this happened at Arkansas, I'd be all for shutting it down immediately.

 

[Sinn Fein]

This makes me sad

In 1995, I wrote a book that detailed the culture of abuse in elite gymnastics: the broken bodies and psyches, the tunnel-vision parents, the manipulative coaches, the enablers at the national federation. The young women told me of training with fractured bones, cutting themselves to deal with the pressure, attempting suicide after falling short of Olympic glory, starving themselves to stay rail thin. One anorexic former gymnast weighed 65 pounds when I interviewed her by phone; she died two months later.

The book drew widespread media coverage. Suddenly, the systemic child abuse occurring throughout elite gymnastics was out in the open. After first denouncing allegations as the exaggerations of failed gymnasts, officials at USA Gymnastics (known then as the United States Gymnastics Federation) eventually introduced new policies and practices they said reinforced what has always been their top priority: the safety of their athletes.

And yet, 23 years later, it seems nothing has changed. The culture of elite women’s gymnastics is as corrosive, secretive and indifferent to the athletes’ well-being as it has always been. Last week, when dozens of girls and young women appeared, one after another, in a Michigan courtroom to accuse a USA Gymnastics doctor of sexually abusing them, the federation issued a statement that included this sentence: “We are focused on further developing a culture that has safe sport as a top priority throughout the organization.’’

***

 

[encaitar]

I'm really only looking at this from the NCAA level. I don't know what it would take to shut down an entire university, and I'm not even sure how I feel if that would be appropriate. I do 100% feel that the NCAA should give MSU the death penalty. The purpose of the NCAA is to protect student athletes.(well, that purpose has really morphed over the decades, but protecting the student athletes was the original reason for its creation), and it's clear that the NCAA can't trust MSU. There is something culturally wrong there. Seriously.  

So how far?  Shut down every sport at MSU?  They're never allowed to compete in athletics again?  What about the student athletes that had literally nothing to do with this?  They just get told to upend their lives and look for another scholarship somewhere else?  How would the NCAA be protecting those student athletes in this instance?

 

[Da Guru]

 This story is nutshelled..as it could be 5 pages. 

My oldest daughter could bring down a well renowned volleyball club and a ranked volleyball program with the things she knows and has 100s of texts and pics from ex-teammates to back it up.  Nothing ever happened to her but she had a number of friends that were abused both emotionally and a couple sexually. 

These men coaches who coach women's athletics have so much power over these girls. I stayed on top of all theses guys when my kids were playing club ball as so many were so squirrely.  When my daughter was 16 we were in Orlando for the AAU Championships...One of the men coaches in the club never wanted the parents around.  I had seen him doing some inappropriate ### slapping and grabbing.

This is just one story that happened with her team. 

So we are staying at the Dolphin Resort in Orlando and my daughter says the team is going to the pool...I say great I am going to go as well.  "Well coach says it should be team bonding night and no parents"  I think OK..  All the other parents are going out to party at a bar but I tell my wife we are going to the pool in about an hour to check things out.  Now these are all 16 year old female athletes who look 22 in bikinis.  This coach was 31 at the time was picking them up carrying them around and throwing them in the pool.  Lot of flesh exposed for sure.

While I am watching from a distance as he is grabbing ###... he grabs my daughter from behind, carries her around and  throws her and himself into the pool.   I walk up right away and when he sees me he freezes and I said " Don`t ever touch my daughter in any way again..in fact you should not be touching any of these girls in this manner as you are twice their age" 

I then met with the club directors and informed them of what I had been seeing and they let the guy go the next day.  Of course he got a gig with another club the next season because he is a good coach and is connected to colleges.  So many parents are afraid that they will lose that scholarship and that is why these predators  have so much power.  And this is college..the Olympic dream is way more intense.

The event that happened it college was with her roommate and the coach stalking her...the girls dad has passed while she was in HS and the coach thought he was taking over the "father figure" role. The coach is married with kids too!  At first it seemed good...after time it got really strange when the coach was jealous if she was dating. Asking her about her sex life...this was my daughters best friend so she knew everything..my daughter  called me and told me what was going on.  I said unless he has done something to you stay out of it unless she wants your help then support her.

The roommate told her mother who met with my wife and I and said I want to go to the AD and the President of the university but her daughter who incidentally was the best player on the team said "Please no..I don't want to be on ESPN in a big scandal"  This was a very successful top 25 team so it would be news.

So she eventually totally blew the coach off.  The coach calls my daughter in for a private meeting and says "I know you are #$$%^ best friend..why won`t she talk to me and can you please help"  Now my daughter was an All-State HS player, in college she was a starter but not the star as there were many just like her... she was very intimidated during this meeting as you can imagine.  All these girls were so close to their parents yet out of 12 players only my daughter and the girl who was involved told their parents.  We had a bunch of them visit last summer and I asked why??  To a player they said they did not want to be involved in a scandal.  I feel bad now that I did not step up but it was not my daughter.

So it just went away.  Everybody on the team knew about and nothing ever happened. It was never to the Larry Nasser stage but total emotional control and that can be almost as bad.

 

[Christo]

So how far?  Shut down every sport at MSU?  They're never allowed to compete in athletics again?  What about the student athletes that had literally nothing to do with this?  They just get told to upend their lives and look for another scholarship somewhere else?  How would the NCAA be protecting those student athletes in this instance?

Sure, if they're good enough for MSU another school will take them in.

 

[Politician Spock]

So how far?  Shut down every sport at MSU?  They're never allowed to compete in athletics again?  What about the student athletes that had literally nothing to do with this?  They just get told to upend their lives and look for another scholarship somewhere else?  How would the NCAA be protecting those student athletes in this instance?

The death penalty is a one year ban from competing.

My understanding is the athletes don't lose their scholarships. They are still honored by the school. Some death penalties however limit the number of new scholarships the school can give in the future. 

It's never been issued for every sport at a school before, but in this instance the problem is the school's athletic department (and apparently the school's board too). If the issue was limited to just the women's gymnastics staff, then it would just be a one year ban on competing in women's gymnastics. 

 

[Yankee23Fan]

So how far?  Shut down every sport at MSU?  They're never allowed to compete in athletics again?  What about the student athletes that had literally nothing to do with this?  They just get told to upend their lives and look for another scholarship somewhere else?  How would the NCAA be protecting those student athletes in this instance?

 Yes every sport. 

Not never again. I'd say 14 years off is a fair number. 

The students can transfer. 

Do this to a high level program and the next time a 19 year old girl says a  adult trusted with her safety abused her someone will actually listen and do something.  And if they don't they can burn too. 

 

[Yankee23Fan]

The death penalty is a one year ban from competing.

My understanding is the athletes don't lose their scholarships. They are still honored by the school. Some death penalties however limit the number of new scholarships the school can give in the future. 

It's never been issued for every sport at a school before, but in this instance the problem is the school's athletic department (and apparently the school's board too). If the issue was limited to just the women's gymnastics staff, then it would just be a one year ban on competing in women's gymnastics. 

 being nicer than me...

 

[Politician Spock]

 being nicer than me...

I don't disagree with your penalty. It's just that it's 14 times worse than the NCAA has ever done before. That seems unlikely to me, even if it is appropriate. 

 

[Yankee23Fan]

I don't disagree with your penalty. It's just that it's 14 times worse than the NCAA has ever done before. That seems unlikely to me, even if it is appropriate. 

 It seems poetic. 

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I see plenty of circling the wagons in threads like these.  I don't understand it, but I guess it's people's nature.  I know for certain if anything like this happened at Arkansas, I'd be all for shutting it down immediately.

Eh, that's easier to say than actually do, TBH.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

 Yes every sport. 

Not never again. I'd say 14 years off is a fair number. 

The students can transfer. 

Do this to a high level program and the next time a 19 year old girl says a  adult trusted with her safety abused her someone will actually listen and do something.  And if they don't they can burn too. 

Are you willing to wait for more facts about who is exactly responsible before you administer this punishment? Or you going to do it based on these initial media reports?

 

[Hawkeye21]

I mean, all your posts add in “PSU” when they aren’t being mentioned by most other posters. I think my point is made. 

What’s wrong with adding them?  They are a similar example and I feel they got off too easy. I don’t want to see it happen again. 

I won’t claim to have the popular opinion on this but in a situation like this I don’t really care. 

 

[tri-man 47]

 Do this to a high level program and the next time a 19 year old girl says an adult trusted with her safety abused her someone will actually listen and do something.  

This is the heart of the argument.  

 

[AAABatteries]

I, too, hate spiders.

@mr furley

 

[Hawkeye21]

@Hawkeye21 BURN IT DOWN

I knew someone would bring that up and that's OK.  Was very embarrassing for the university and fans.  I don't think it's anywhere near the level we're talking about now though.  You won't see any celebrations for Coach Alford at Iowa after his tenure there.  I don't know a single Iowa fan that liked or respected that man.  I still can't believe he's allowed to coach at all.

 

[SWC]

there is absolutely no equivalence between a guy stealing from a company cash box in another countrys branch and two systems supposedly dedicated to growing and nurturing children and acting as parents away from parents instead molesting literally hundreds upon hundreds of little girls just think about that i just said hundred upon hundreds of little girls and turning their heads when reports came in about it and then in fact paying people off to keep it quiet and thats a fact jack take that to the bank brohans 

 

[Hawkeye21]

there is absolutely no equivalence between a guy stealing from a company cash box in another countrys branch and two systems supposedly dedicated to growing and nurturing children and acting as parents away from parents instead molesting literally hundreds upon hundreds of little girls just think about that i just said hundred upon hundreds of little girls and turning their heads when reports came in about it and then in fact paying people off to keep it quiet and thats a fact jack take that to the bank brohans 

Kind of gross that some come to the defense of these places.

 

[Tom Servo]

@Hawkeye21 BURN IT DOWN

OH SNAP!!!!

Kirk Ferentz...you're FIRED!!!!!!!1

 

[Hawkeye21]

OH SNAP!!!!

Kirk Ferentz...you're FIRED!!!!!!!1

Ferentz didn't actually cover anything up though.  Don't even attempt to try and compare what PSU and MSU did to this.  It's not accurate and it makes it look like you think little of what actually happened.

 

[Tom Servo]

Ferentz didn't actually cover anything up though.  Don't even attempt to try and compare what PSU and MSU did to this.  It's not accurate and it makes it look like you think little of what actually happened.

Sauce tastes good when applied to both goose and gander. HTH

 

[Hawkeye21]

Sauce tastes good when applied to both goose and gander. HTH

What the hell are you talking about?  Seriously.  It sounds like you're defending what MSU and PSU did now.  How is it similar to what happened at Iowa?  Very few similarities.

 

[SWC]

i am listening to an npr story about this right now and there was a girl testifying that she told michigan state in 1997 and they told her she was wrong made her feel bad and sent her right back to nassar thats hundreds of little girls ago how in the hell can anyone do that and how is that type of behavior not against some law take that to the bank brohans 

 

[Tom Servo]

What the hell are you talking about?  Seriously.  It sounds like you're defending what MSU and PSU did now.  How is it similar to what happened at Iowa?  Very few similarities.

No. Here, I'll say it real slow.

Since you want MSU and PSU nuked from orbit for sexual misconduct, it seems only fitting that Iowa get the same treatment. This is by your own words. Therefore, what's good for the Spartan and the Nittany Lion is also good for the Hawkeye.

 

[Hawkeye21]

No. Here, I'll say it real slow.

Since you want MSU and PSU nuked from orbit for sexual misconduct, it seems only fitting that Iowa get the same treatment. This is by your own words. Therefore, what's good for the Spartan and the Nittany Lion is also good for the Hawkeye.

But they're not even close to the same thing.  If MSU or PSU only had one or two small incidents I wouldn't be saying it.  How can you keep comparing them?  If Iowa did the same thing I would would stick with how I feel.  Stop treating this in such a terrible way.