What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

MSU in the Crosshairs - Lawsuit Alleges MSU Encouraged Woman not to Report Rape by Basketball Players; Ohio State University Doctor Abused 177 Athlete (1 Viewer)

Izzo has doubled down with some of the most asinine comments throughout this. What is he thinking?  Please hire a PR person or stop talking if you want any chance to keep your job.  

The more he talks stupid about the Nassar case, the more directly he is going to be publicly linked to all of it rather than being accountable to his piece from his sport.  
This is when you realize guys like Izzo, Pops, Van Gundy, Coach K, Phil Jackson....even though they are all educated all they have done their whole lives is coach a game and live in a world within a kids game played by adults.

 
I've always really liked and admired Izzo from a distance and always backed his teams in tourney play, but I am rather disgusted by his behavior in all this.  

 
I believe teal is the color that represents support for victims of sexual assault. The person who heads the Izzone had everyone wear them in support of the victims. 
Yes, MSU students did a fundraiser to support the women and part of that was buying a lot of teal shirts.

 
This is when you realize guys like Izzo, Pops, Van Gundy, Coach K, Phil Jackson....even though they are all educated all they have done their whole lives is coach a game and live in a world within a kids game played by adults.
And became the highest paid public employees in their State. They should be ashamed of their greed. 

 
And became the highest paid public employees in their State. They should be ashamed of their greed. 
When you hear Izzo and Dantonio speak on topics outside of their sport they sound stupid. Most coaches are probably the same.

 
If this entire ordeal doesn't wake us up to the fraud that is the NCAA and the collegiate athletic structure in this country, nothing will.
I hate to break it to you, but I'm afraid that you're going to be disappointed. Everything you said is valid, however.

 
When you hear Izzo and Dantonio speak on topics outside of their sport they sound stupid. Most coaches are probably the same.
That's not even all that important to me. I don't care what a math teacher's opinion on government is or what a government teacher's option on math is. We all have certains areas of expertise. I mean look at Ben Carson. The guy is a brilliant doctor and surgeon- I could never approach what he has done there, but he really didn't have a clue about history or the government. 

My issue is with guys like Ben Carson thinking being a brain surgeon would make them a good POTUS or Izzo thinking he deserves 4 million dollars of Michigan tax payer money a year to coach amateur basketball with 20 year olds. 

 
That's not even all that important to me. I don't care what a math teacher's opinion on government is or what a government teacher's option on math is. We all have certains areas of expertise. I mean look at Ben Carson. The guy is a brilliant doctor and surgeon- I could never approach what he has done there, but he really didn't have a clue about history or the government. 

My issue is with guys like Ben Carson thinking being a brain surgeon would make them a good POTUS or Izzo thinking he deserves 4 million dollars of Michigan tax payer money a year to coach amateur basketball with 20 year olds. 
He wouldn’t make all that money if fans and alumni didn’t spend all that money watching the product he oversees

 
He wouldn’t make all that money if fans and alumni didn’t spend all that money watching the product he oversees
Yet somehow the athletes those fans and alumni pay to see play don't to receive anywhere near the same financial reward. Are people really paying to see Tom Izzo?

 
Yet somehow the athletes those fans and alumni pay to see play don't to receive anywhere near the same financial reward. Are people really paying to see Tom Izzo?
Guy in charge makes money.  Welcome to almost every business in America.  Go root for eastern Michigan then come back and tell us if people root for the program Izzo oversees.  

 
Yet somehow the athletes those fans and alumni pay to see play don't to receive anywhere near the same financial reward. Are people really paying to see Tom Izzo?
Top college coaches are hugely underpaid imo. I’m talking top top, K, Saban, Meyer and I’d have Izzy right at below those guys on that short list of 10  he’s a great coach which drives a lot of this. But he’s starting to get to be seriously detrimental to the brand

 
This is when you realize guys like Izzo, Pops, Van Gundy, Coach K, Phil Jackson....even though they are all educated all they have done their whole lives is coach a game and live in a world within a kids game played by adults.
This is why the Federal government has to regulate them. They'd act like a bunch of teenagers if they weren't. And don't get me started on how the players would act. 

 
This is why the Federal government has to regulate them. They'd act like a bunch of teenagers if they weren't. And don't get me started on how the players would act. 
Heaven forbid. The feds should stay the hell out unless something criminal occurs. Then they should prosecute the #### out of them.

 
Heaven forbid. The feds should stay the hell out unless something criminal occurs. Then they should prosecute the #### out of them.
These crimes went on for decades at MSU. If the school handled the reports of sexual assault according to regulations, then years of additional victims would have been avoided. This is why the school needs punished even though they weren't the criminal. 

 
These crimes went on for decades at MSU. If the school handled the reports of sexual assault according to regulations, then years of additional victims would have been avoided. This is why the school needs punished even though they weren't the criminal. 
So the regulations didn't work. Got it.

 
These crimes went on for decades at MSU. If the school handled the reports of sexual assault according to regulations, then years of additional victims would have been avoided. This is why the school needs punished even though they weren't the criminal. 
There is a good chance the actions by the school officials were criminal.  Passing off a reported crime to a coach rather than the mandatory policy isn’t an oversight, it’s corruption. 

 
Jeez, the E:60 on MSU is enough to make me want my daughter to stay the heck out of all of Michigan.
Just sending her off to college on her own scares the crap out of me.  Young, drunk men are hard to trust.   Everyone’s goal is to get laid in college. 

 
This is also somewhat dependent on the state.

In the State of Mississippi, for instance, everyone under the age of 21 is a minor.
I did not know that.  I generally thought it to be 18, with many states, predominantly below the Mason Dixon line allowing age of consent for marriage exceptions to go lower.  The latter probably reflects some regional bias, which is to say some ignorance.

 
Politician Spock said:
These crimes went on for decades at MSU. If the school handled the reports of sexual assault according to regulations, then years of additional victims would have been avoided. This is why the school needs punished even though they weren't the criminal. 
By this logic, why shouldn't the Harvey Weinstein scandal result in the government regulating hollywood?  Or Steve Wynn / gambling?  Or O'Reilly / Fox News?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Of course, there is.  You've been making this category error for several years.  Due process does not always mean the level of process due in a criminal trial.  Students can be entitled to due process without being entitled to a jury trial.  Or to the protections against self-incrimination and the entitlement to confront their accusers.  That is criminal due process, the highest level of process anyone is entitled to and it applies when the government wants to deprive you of your liberty (i.e., lock you up).  It does not apply when the government may want to deprive you of a property right.  For instance, the government can seize your assets by merely showing probable cause that they were used in conjunction with a criminal activity.  You have due process.  You get a hearing.  But not the same protections as a criminal trial.  

EDIT:  The screed you just posted makes exactly this point.  What of the due process protections identified in that article (that are not specifically identified with criminal matters) does the Dear Colleague letter eliminate?
Notice, and an opportunity to be heard.  It does not require an opportunity to be heard to my satisfaction so no power of subpoena or right to confront or cross, just an opportunity to be heard.  Or so I think.  Mayhaps I have it wrong.

 
You're absolutely right.  My apologies.
I disagree.  I have found the discussion interesting.  Me, I recognize that administrative procedures are truncated, and potentially subject to more uncertainty than would be tolerated in th ecivil courts.  That's why the civil courts will take up review of such maters once the administrative remedies have been exhausted.  

 
By this logic, why shouldn't the Harvey Weinstein scandal result in the government regulating hollywood?  Or Steve Wynn / gambling?  Or O'Reilly / Fox News?
Because as far as I know none of them receive millions of dollars of federal financial aid. MSU is already regulated by the Dept. of Ed.  it's a matter of degrees.

I hold publicly funded educational institutions to a higher standard than for profit businesses.  Weinstein employees were not mandatory reporters to start.

 
Gawain said:
Jeez, the E:60 on MSU is enough to make me want my daughter to stay the heck out of all of Michigan.
Sadly, this is probably going on in most college campuses on some level.

Sexual assault is bad for business. It's in the companies best interest to keep this stuff as quiet as possible.

 
Sometimes it becomes difficult to remember that there are at least three processes running consecutively in these matters.  First, there is the administrative process of determining the contractual rights of students to continue with their University.  When they first struck their contract with their Universities these students they agreed to codes of conduct as material terms of their contracts and to some administrative procedures for resolving disputes.  This us between the University and the student.  The students do not have privity, one with the other.  They think of themselves as being third party beneficiaries of the contracts of others, but I am not convinced the Courts would agree.

Now if one student wrongs another, in addition to their rights and responsibilities to the University, they have liability one to the other not based upon their status as students, but their status as people.  Here we have a civil law process.

Finally, When one student commits a criminal act against another they have offended against the People also, here we have a criminal standard.

I have seen lawyers who forget this fundamental (Insultingly fundamental) fact.  I have seen lawyers lament that the administrative process did not resolve the other two processes.  That it did not provide ultimate justice.  I get it.  The passions raised by some subjects can distract one from the obvious.  

 
Or shouldn't be regulated in the first place.
I'm trying to envision what this situation would look like if we did things your way. All I can see is MSU times 100. 

Yes, a small percentage of the schools fail to comply with the regulations. But a large percentage do comply, so that the world isn't as bad of a place to be like you're lack of regulation would be like. It's insane to suggest that the regulations shouldn't exist because MSU ignored them. 

 
By this logic, why shouldn't the Harvey Weinstein scandal result in the government regulating hollywood?  Or Steve Wynn / gambling?  Or O'Reilly / Fox News?
If they received federal funding, like those subject to Title IX, then they would be regulated by Title IX. Title IX is limited to those that received federal funding. If you are suggesting that maybe it should be extended to everyone, maybe that's a debate we should be having. 

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top