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Muslims in NYC Planning to Build Second Mosque Near Ground Zero (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Chadstroma
- Start date
This isn't really about anyone bombing anything. It is about making statements. This mosque is a victory dance on the grave of 3000 Americans.
drummer
Footballguy
Maybe it would be the opposite, like say "We aren't afraid of Muslim Culture, and despite what the Terrorists say about Americans, a Mosque 2 blocks away is a Victory for Freedom."You can laugh all you want, but many Americans feel the same way I do. This Cordoba Initiative existed for years and couldn't raise but a few thousand dollars. But now millions of dollars are rolling in for this. If there was a logical explanation outside the one I am giving, I would happily listen, but frankly an intelligent argument for this location does not exist.
drummer
Footballguy
So you believe there is a Terrorist conspiracy behind this, right?You can laugh all you want, but many Americans feel the same way I do. This Cordoba Initiative existed for years and couldn't raise but a few thousand dollars. But now millions of dollars are rolling in for this. If there was a logical explanation outside the one I am giving, I would happily listen, but frankly an intelligent argument for this location does not exist.
Not a conspiracy, it is called history. This is like the Dome of the Rock on temple mount. It is what Muslims do.
drummer
Footballguy
Is that like bringing in Western ideas into a Muslim culture over in the Middle East?
Woogie Lee
Footballguy
But that's different
Woogie Lee
Footballguy
Can you unpack this?
Do you really need him to?
They conquer, destroy your holy sites, and put mosques up over them. If you tear them down or are against them, you are the hater. This symbolizes victory for them over us. But the surrender monkeys on this forum think we should bend over and take it with a smile on our face.
Well, that would be "PC" of us...
Radio Free Homer
Footballguy
Well, 1300 years ago the Muslims that conquered Jerusalem buil the Dome of the Rock on the site of the old Jewish Temple. So clearly the Cordoba Initiative is doing the same thing. Well, it'd be the same thing if the Dome of the Rock was built two blocks away from the temple...but close enough.
Radio Free Homer
Footballguy
FYI the Romans destroyed the temple.
drummer
Footballguy
I know, but it is the building of the mosque on the most holiest site of the Jews I am referring to. If you wish, I can point to dozens and dozens of churches which have been destroyed by Muslim conquerers and Mosque erected on them.
Radio Free Homer
Footballguy
It's also one of the holiest sites in Islam. And just for a little historical perspective, when one country/culture conquers another, they generally replace things like religion and language and traditions to make the conquered people easier to control.
Radio Free Homer
Footballguy
ScottyFargo
Footballguy
ffs:"St. Nicholas Orthodox Church has always had and will continue to have the right to rebuild on its original location. The question was whether public money would be spent to build a much larger church at a separate location on the site and ensuring that construction wouldn't delay the World Trade Center further," spokesman Stephen Sigmund said in a written statement. "On that question, we worked for many years to reach an agreement and offered up to 60 million dollars of public money to build that much larger new church. After reaching what we believed was an agreement in 2008, representatives of the church wanted even more public commitments, including unacceptable approvals on the design of the Vehicle Security Center that threatened to further delay the construction on the World Trade Center and the potential for another $20 million of public funds."
Sigmund said the "final offer" was made last year, which again included $60 million.
Radio Free Homer
Footballguy
Good. ####ers got greedy and lost out.I'm questioning why they were getting public money in the first place.
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ScottyFargo
Footballguy
Between not reading articles you guys post to support your weak arguments and your willingness to believe every single rumor spread about Obama, even when a simple google search will show you that it'd been debunked months before it made the e-mail circles to get to your inbox, I really question if there are any good conservative posters on this board.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
You can go to the NY Times site and read dozens of articles about St. Nicholas...they're worse than the Memorial families when it comes to pissing and moaning and generally holding things up. They have, at various times, been offered sites 2 times, 4 times and 7 times the size of their original plot...and have been offered $20M, then $35M, then $40M and finally $60M. We're talking about a tiny church with a congregation of around 70 families.
Eff them, if they didn't get a deal, its their own fault.
Eff them, if they didn't get a deal, its their own fault.
ScottyFargo
Footballguy
Probably because it was taken out during the terror . But 60 million is a lot of money to turn down, so yeah, I don't have much sympathy and it clearly does not work here as a correlative to the situation going on 2 blocks away.Good. ####ers got greedy and lost out.
I'm questioning why they were getting public money in the first place.
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Gigantomachia
Footballguy
really?? still arguing about this?
i have an idea, we should just ban all religion. then no one can #####. think of the lucrative underground market that would produce!
i have an idea, we should just ban all religion. then no one can #####. think of the lucrative underground market that would produce!
badmojo1006
Footballguy
I think it is also a historical building. Built in the 1700's?Probably because it was taken out during the terror . But 60 million is a lot of money to turn down, so yeah, I don't have much sympathy and it clearly does not work here as a correlative to the situation going on 2 blocks away.Good. ####ers got greedy and lost out.
I'm questioning why they were getting public money in the first place.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
1922You're prolly confusing it with Trinity, the well-known spire at the end of Wall St on Broadway.I think it is also a historical building. Built in the 1700's?Probably because it was taken out during the terror . But 60 million is a lot of money to turn down, so yeah, I don't have much sympathy and it clearly does not work here as a correlative to the situation going on 2 blocks away.Good. ####ers got greedy and lost out.
I'm questioning why they were getting public money in the first place.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
El Floppo
Footballguy
Hi. As somebody who studied architecture and archaeology, you are correct.But you'd be just as correct if you said ANY religion.
ScottyFargo
Footballguy
*stomps feet* It's MUCH WORSE WHEN THEY DO IT
CRUSAAAAADESSSSSSSSSSSSSS
mad sweeney
Footballguy
Btw, this is just another blatant statement about your hate for all Muslims, not just extremists.
You read minds too?? Impressive....
mad sweeney
Footballguy
Do I really need to..?You read minds too?? Impressive....
mad sweeney
Footballguy
Approval of funding by Jon_mx is still pending.
crewmember
Footballguy
I did. When you don't follow the news too closely and all you hear is "Mosque at Ground Zero", you assume it is a Mosque at Ground Zero.1. No way, no how. I don't know and haven't heard anyone say that they believe that the mosque is actually being built exactly where the WTC was located. And you can complain all you want about it being a community center but the fact is that there is going to be a mosque at the community center.2. Howard Dean's position contradicts this argument.You described my position correctly. But let me add:1. I believe that conservative commentators, and especially those on Fox News, are deliberately deceiving the public by describing this proposed building as a "Mosque at Ground Zero." It is not a mosque, nor is it at Ground Zero.It addresses the qualifier. But it still doesn't address the fact that timmy's response was to Howard Dean's position which doesn't depend on the mosque being "at ground zero." Clearly, Dean thinks that the location of the site (even though it is near rather than at ground zero) warrants them rethinking building the mosque there. By referring to it being two blocks away, timmy was clearly relying on the distance argument with his "for the upteenth time, the community center is going to be built TWO BLOCKS AWAY!!!" statement.
2. I believe that if the American public was more aware that the building was a community center which included a mosque, and that it was being built 2 blocks away from Ground Zero, the percentage of those opposed would not be nearly as high. Unlike some people, I don't regard the public as bigoted, simply misinformed.
3. That's why I found Dean's comments so disappointing- not only do I disagree with him, but he played right into the right-wing rhetoric on this issue.
Woogie Lee
Footballguy
thank you.
Radio Free Homer
Footballguy
Jon's assumption is that most Muslims are extremists and want to see Muslim domination around the world and especially here in the US. His evidence condemning the Cordoba Initiative is that most Muslims are extremists and want to see Muslim domination around the world and especially here in the US.
It's completely circular logic that he keeps presenting as fact.
It's completely circular logic that he keeps presenting as fact.
I am not making any assumptions about most Muslims. I am making statements about the motivation for this particular project. This project is a statement of hate against America. If you are too naive or too ignorant to see that, it is your problem. You guys throw around the bigot label like candy on any topic people disagree with you on. It is ####### pathic if you ask me.Radio Free Homer said:
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drummer
Footballguy
A Terrorist act is an act of hate, I'll give you that. Timothy McVeigh's act was a Terrorist one. But it doesn't mean they can't build a church in Oklahoma City.ETA: A Terrorist act is to create terror, like say, bombing an abortion clinic, or intimidating a witness before or during a trial. Both of which happen in America frequently, and not because of Muslim faith.
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Are you seriously comparing Tim McVeigh and Christianity to radical Islamic terrorism and Muslims? That is as stupid as it gets. First off, McVeigh was purely an anti-government nut who acted basically on his own outside of some minor help from Nichols. Secondly, McVeigh was a self-proclaimed agnostic and certainly never made a claim he was doing this to advance Christianity in any way. Thirdly, there were no Christians dancing in the streets after the horrible OKC bombing. The facts are, there are millions of Muslims throughout the world who support suicide bombings of innocent civilians. Many countries like Pakistan, Iran, Jordan, and Lebonon, such acts enjoy the support of roughly half the population or more. Even in more moderate countries like Turkey about 15% support terrorist acts against civilians. And that 15% number is about the same here in America when polling Muslim youth. Shoot, only about 40% of young Muslims here in America believe Arabs were behind the 9-11 attacks. Not only are you delusional and ignorant in making your analogy to Christianity, you are in denial about the problem of global terrorism by Muslim extremists and just how wide spread their support is. It is also funny to watch, the same people who argue the world would be better off without religion are now the same people making the arguement for religious freedom. What a friggin canard. Besides, it is such a bogus issue in this case since the ####### building is not a mosque as their side argues.
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drummer
Footballguy
McVeigh's ideals stemmed from the Christian Identity movement. It's as radical as Muslim Terrorists are. Your post not only shows how dumb you are about what you fear, but it shows why people who lack understanding fear it so much. McVeigh and Al Qaeda's act's were rooted in Religion. So are the bombings of abortion clinics, as well as the murder of those who perform abortions. Those who do that are Terrorists.
You say: "Follow the $$ when it comes to dealing with Muslims".
I say: "Where and the f##k have you been for the last generation?"
I'm sure Doctor Detroit has tried to enlighten you on America's involvement in the Middle East, with they being both trade partners, Allies, and with the United States' manipulation of Iraq and Iran for decades past. I understand why you would ignore that. You listen to Palin. The worst kind of Conservative is the kind that goes against the real true ideal that makes me Conservative, and that is one of accountability. You lack a ton of it. That's why, as a true Conservative, I can't respect your opinion, because it's based on talking points, rather than reality.
The real reason why the attack on 9-11 happened is because the Intelligentsia of who should protect us missed it, and despite your fear of a Muslim attack on the American way of life, there has been an even more attack on it with the rampant importation of illicit drugs that has affected more Americans than any Religion has. Do you decry how we do business in with the same countries that destroy the Inner Cities with poison that is easily traded, with the base product imported from Countries whose biggest import outside of oil is drugs? Will you lead a march in Downtown Oakland, CA against the local Narco Terrorists who run the trade while incarcerated in Pelican Bay?
Growing up during the Vietnam War, the Cold War, and the Nuclear threat has made me emboldened to any other threat outside of living in a rough neighborhood filled with gangs, guns, and drugs. The real threat in America is living amongst gangs, who still run rampant in NY, as well as Atlanta and Houston. Bwah! You're concerned about a freakin Mosque in NYC. Not about the Latin Kings. A freakin' church where you're too afraid to step into and maybe learn more about the people who worship in it. You know, that takes a lot of balls, confronting your fears.
But you'd rather confront them here, in the comfort of the FFA.
All your post did was confirm what I said before....the only people who make the case that Christianity is to blame for McVeigh are radical foaming at the mouth anti-Christian bigots. The people worrried about my views on Muslims, should probably look in the mirror and check their views against Christians. You tangent about the war on drugs was just brilliant too. No idea what it has to do with the topic at hand, but thanks for that.
drummer
Footballguy
Well, there ya go. You don't know anything about McVeigh. I called that before you posted it.All your post did was confirm what I said before....the only people who make the case that Christianity is to blame for McVeigh are radical foaming at the mouth anti-Christian bigots. The people worrried about my views on Muslims, should probably look in the mirror and check their views against Christians. You tangent about the war on drugs was just brilliant too. No idea what it has to do with the topic at hand, but thanks for that.
Oh yes, and you are the expert....Well, there ya go. You don't know anything about McVeigh. I called that before you posted it.All your post did was confirm what I said before....the only people who make the case that Christianity is to blame for McVeigh are radical foaming at the mouth anti-Christian bigots. The people worrried about my views on Muslims, should probably look in the mirror and check their views against Christians. You tangent about the war on drugs was just brilliant too. No idea what it has to do with the topic at hand, but thanks for that.
All you know is what you read on some whacked out leftwing kook website. McVeigh said he was an agnostic and even said that science is his religion. He was influenced by the militia movement and things like Ruby Ridge and Waco. Waco is what really flipped McVeigh over the top and drove him to act. So I suppose we could go off and blame Clinton/Reno if you really want to get into the head of a lunatic and play the blame game. But this thread is about a Muslim cultural center and the reality of hundreds of terrorists acts committed around the world that have killed tens of thousands of people and even threatens us worse with the possibility of some of them nuts having access to nuclear technology. You choose to focus on what some whacked out Christian group thinks which might represent at most 0.0001% of Christians instead of terrorist acts which enjoy alarmingly wide support among Muslims.
drummer
Footballguy
Bwah! McVeigh was exposed to the Christian Identity ideal due to the Militia movement. Ever hear of Elohim City? Again, your denial and ignorance of what you think you know only show why you fear what you don't really know. BTW, have you compiled all of the $$ from America's involvement with the Middle East yet? Or is that still a matter of a grey area you have yet to look up?Oh yes, and you are the expert....Well, there ya go. You don't know anything about McVeigh. I called that before you posted it.All your post did was confirm what I said before....the only people who make the case that Christianity is to blame for McVeigh are radical foaming at the mouth anti-Christian bigots. The people worrried about my views on Muslims, should probably look in the mirror and check their views against Christians. You tangent about the war on drugs was just brilliant too. No idea what it has to do with the topic at hand, but thanks for that.
Obama has closer ties to radical Muslims and Communists.
drummer
Footballguy
Obama has closer ties to radical Muslims and Communists.
Dude, if ya gonna troll, bring up a Church in ChiTown. I bet you never preached Gospel, even though you think you are doing it here.So again, one more thing you don't know much about, which is Religion.
Me the troll? You are the one with the whacked out trolling motor on, making some lame ties between McVeigh and the Christian Identity so you can make derogatory analogy with Christians and the OKC bombing. That is some pretty bad fishing.
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