NFL MVP End-of-the-season update (with poll added) (1 Viewer)

[Chase Stuart]

No way Warner deserves MVP consideration.

But Pennington does? Miami's turnaround has more to do with their improvement on defense (28th last year; 15th this year) than anything else. Plus, Pennington has a better running game than Warner (Miami is 13th; Arizona is last/32nd). Given all of that, I would say Warner has been much more valuable to the Cardinals than Pennington has been to the Dolphins.

Pennington has put up better stats despite having a weaker supporting cast. Pennington has committed six turnovers this year to Warner's 19.

Way to pick out one random stat. Can I pick out the numerous stats where Warner puts Pennington to shame? Either way, Pennington clearly has a much stronger supporting cast around him (when taking the whole team into consideration), and yet, Warner is still putting up better overall numbers. Yes, Warner has more turnovers, but when you are the QB of a team with zero running game, you have to throw the ball a lot, and turnovers are gonna happen when you throw the ball as much as they do. We have all seen how awesome Warner is when he has the luxury of a running game. Pennington on his best day with a running game doesn't come close to the player that Warner is when he has a running game to complement his passing skills. That is pretty much a given.

Warner has a better supporting cast on offense, which is what matters when you're looking at the player's offensive numbers. Warner averages fewer adjusted net yards per pass attempt than Pennington. He's got worse stats, and that metric doesn't even include all of Warner's fumbles. Sure Warner throws for a bazillion yards, but he's not playing as well as Pennington this year despite two superstar WRs.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Why would the QB of a 7-8 team get mentioned? Even if the Chargers really win the division, do you really think a player from an 8-8 team should be strongly considered for MVP?

I think record should be, at the most, count for 10% of the MVP discussion.

 

[wilked]

Matt Cassel

Nuff said

 

[David Yudkin]

No way Warner deserves MVP consideration.

But Pennington does? Miami's turnaround has more to do with their improvement on defense (28th last year; 15th this year) than anything else. Plus, Pennington has a better running game than Warner (Miami is 13th; Arizona is last/32nd). Given all of that, I would say Warner has been much more valuable to the Cardinals than Pennington has been to the Dolphins.

Pennington has put up better stats despite having a weaker supporting cast. Pennington has committed six turnovers this year to Warner's 19.

Way to pick out one random stat. Can I pick out the numerous stats where Warner puts Pennington to shame? Either way, Pennington clearly has a much stronger supporting cast around him (when taking the whole team into consideration), and yet, Warner is still putting up better overall numbers. Yes, Warner has more turnovers, but when you are the QB of a team with zero running game, you have to throw the ball a lot, and turnovers are gonna happen when you throw the ball as much as they do. We have all seen how awesome Warner is when he has the luxury of a running game. Pennington on his best day with a running game doesn't come close to the player that Warner is when he has a running game to complement his passing skills. That is pretty much a given.

USA TODAY has their take on the MVP race:

PRIME CONTENDERS

-- Peyton Manning, Colts QB (the favorite)

-- Adrian Peterson, Vikings RB

-- Michael Turner, Falcons RB

-- DeAngelo Williams, Panthers RB

MIDDLE GROUND

-- James Harrison, Steelers DE

-- Ed Reed, Ravens S

-- Matt Ryan, Falcons QB

-- DeMarcus Ware, Cowboys LB

HONORABLE MENTION

-- Drew Brees, Saints QB

-- Chad Pennington, Dolphins QB

-- Kurt Warner, Cardinals QB

Not sure the defensive guys will get that much love, and it's interesting Rivers gets no mention at all.

Why would the QB of a 7-8 team get mentioned? Even if the Chargers really win the division, do you really think a player from an 8-8 team should be strongly considered for MVP?

I have been advocating players from elite teams = MVP, not players from .500 teams = MVP all along. Others here have mentioned the should the Bolts win this week Rivers would be a top MVP candidate. I felt Rivers was a legit candidate weeks ago, but that was when the Chargers were still potentially going to have a better record.

 

[David Yudkin]

Why would the QB of a 7-8 team get mentioned? Even if the Chargers really win the division, do you really think a player from an 8-8 team should be strongly considered for MVP?

I think record should be, at the most, count for 10% of the MVP discussion.

That's great if there were a Chase's MVP award, but for the NFL MVP award winning almost always plays a huge part in the balloting.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Why would the QB of a 7-8 team get mentioned? Even if the Chargers really win the division, do you really think a player from an 8-8 team should be strongly considered for MVP?

I think record should be, at the most, count for 10% of the MVP discussion.

That's great if there were a Chase's MVP award, but for the NFL MVP award winning almost always plays a huge part in the balloting.

He asked what should happen, but not what will happen.

 

[Ghost Rider]

You have no problem defending Warner whose team is currently 8-7.

Notice I have backed off the Warner for MVP talk. When the Cardinals had a very good record, I thought he was a leading contender, as did many, but as the Cardinals record has gone downhill, so have his chances, IMO. If you follow all of my posts in this thread, you will see that. In other words, because of the Cardinals pretty average record, I no longer consider Warner a top contender for the MVP award. He has had a terrific season, but being the MVP on a team that has an average record despite being in a terrible division does not make you the league's MVP. Same thing goes for Rivers.

Fair enough... I assumed because you had just defended Warner's numbers over Pennington's that you still considered a strong candidate for the award - perhaps a poor assumption on my part.

It's all good.

Warner has a better supporting cast on offense, which is what matters when you're looking at the player's offensive numbers. Warner averages fewer adjusted net yards per pass attempt than Pennington. He's got worse stats, and that metric doesn't even include all of Warner's fumbles. Sure Warner throws for a bazillion yards, but he's not playing as well as Pennington this year despite two superstar WRs.

Warner has much better receivers. Pennington has much better running backs. Call it a wash? Or would you like to talk about how much better Miami's offensive line is than Arizona's? And Warner still has better numbers overall:-Warner has 9 more touchdown passes-Pennington has 6 fewer INTs-Pennington has 8 fewer fumbles-Warner has a high completion percentage-Warner has thrown for more yards-Warner has a higher TD percentage-Pennington has a higher YPAAnd we all know that passing is easier to do when you have a running game, and Warner has never had that luxury. He has had to throw all year with ZERO help in the running game.Plus, Boldin has missed 20% of Arizona's games this year, so it is not like Warner has had his two superstars all season to throw to. Interestingly, in the two games earlier this season that Boldin missed, Warner was still fantastic. The New England gamr last week was a bit misleading, as the entire Arizona team looked terrible because of the snow.

Why would the QB of a 7-8 team get mentioned? Even if the Chargers really win the division, do you really think a player from an 8-8 team should be strongly considered for MVP?

I think record should be, at the most, count for 10% of the MVP discussion.

So, let's say the Lions would have won five games this year as the result of having a stud QB who had thrown for 40 TDs and only 8 INTs. Would you be touting him for MVP, despite the Lions 5-11 record? You gotta figure that his numbers would have been significantly better than every other QB, and he would have been good for five wins by himself, so using your criteria, that would make him the league's MVP, right?

Matt CasselNuff said

Fishing on Christmas? For shame.

 

[switz]

Matt CasselNuff said

Nope... in fact that you even brought Cassel up just shows how good the NE system is, and how overrated Brady has been.My vote would be Peyton Manning. He came in recuperating from surgery, he's had no running game, and a shoddy OL, and yet his team is playoff bound. He's carried the team there.The other option, seriously, is Matt Ryan. The Falcons have totally turned it around with Matt Ryan and Michael Turner.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Warner has a better supporting cast on offense, which is what matters when you're looking at the player's offensive numbers. Warner averages fewer adjusted net yards per pass attempt than Pennington. He's got worse stats, and that metric doesn't even include all of Warner's fumbles. Sure Warner throws for a bazillion yards, but he's not playing as well as Pennington this year despite two superstar WRs.

Warner has much better receivers. Pennington has much better running backs. Call it a wash? Or would you like to talk about how much better Miami's offensive line is than Arizona's?

Are you really trying to argue that great WRs don't help a QB's passing numbers more than good RBs?

And Warner still has better numbers overall:-Warner has 9 more touchdown passes-Pennington has 6 fewer INTs-Pennington has 8 fewer fumbles-Warner has a high completion percentage-Warner has thrown for more yards-Warner has a higher TD percentage-Pennington has a higher YPA

What you just wrote is why Pennington's numbers are better. And ANY/A takes into account all these things; Pennington's averaging 6.8 ANY/A; Warner is averaging 6.4 ANY/A. The only argument for Warner over Pennington is that while Pennington has been better per throw, Warner's gross number of throws makes him more valuable. I'm amenable to that sort of argument, except for the fact that Warner has a significantly better supporting cast.

And we all know that passing is easier to do when you have a running game, and Warner has never had that luxury. He has had to throw all year with ZERO help in the running game.

Now you're just making things up.

Plus, Boldin has missed 20% of Arizona's games this year, so it is not like Warner has had his two superstars all season to throw to. Interestingly, in the two games earlier this season that Boldin missed, Warner was still fantastic. The New England gamr last week was a bit misleading, as the entire Arizona team looked terrible because of the snow.

I'm not sure what relevance this has; I would think the MVP of the league would be able to play even when there are snowflakes in the air.

So, let's say the Lions would have won five games this year as the result of having a stud QB who had thrown for 40 TDs and only 8 INTs. Would you be touting him for MVP, despite the Lions 5-11 record? You gotta figure that his numbers would have been significantly better than every other QB, and he would have been good for five wins by himself, so using your criteria, that would make him the league's MVP, right?

Of course.

 

[Bri]

Anyone defensively standout? Haynesworth does for much of the year but not all.

Over and over I think of reasons offensive players just don't have "it" this year, consequently this would be the year for a defensive player to get the award-if such a candidate existed.

Do you think any D players could win? If so who

 

[Bri]

Matt CasselNuff said

Nope... in fact that you even brought Cassel up just shows how good the NE system is, and how overrated Brady has been.My vote would be Peyton Manning. He came in recuperating from surgery, he's had no running game, and a shoddy OL, and yet his team is playoff bound. He's carried the team there.The other option, seriously, is Matt Ryan. The Falcons have totally turned it around with Matt Ryan and Michael Turner.

IMO Brady isn't overrated. I mean maybe he could be as he's just soooo highly rated but, he'd still be a super player. shoddy run game, lesser WRs, switch cooridinators, switch QB coaches etc Brady has thrived in all of those situations. I think it could also be argued that he is the system. One point(exaggerrated or not) is Welker wasn't a great player til he played with Brady. How's Branch done without Brady? Did Brady straighten Moss out? did Moss? did BB?. There's a leadership and accountability there that Brady(as every QB is) as an extension of the coach on the field, should get credit for. Probably the greatest way to point this out is for a long while now people have been saying Brady started his (playing)career in a great situation, let's wait for the lesser years and see how he is then. Well, that STILL hasn't happenned. Another-if he retires now, I think he could possibly make the HOF. I do not know of another QB ever giving that perception in such a brief time.

 

[Bri]

Chase, Ghost-do you think it's possible Brees has had a better year than Warner or Ryan? IMO the MVP is not going to be "maybe the best QB in his conference". It'll be definitive.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Warner has a better supporting cast on offense, which is what matters when you're looking at the player's offensive numbers. Warner averages fewer adjusted net yards per pass attempt than Pennington. He's got worse stats, and that metric doesn't even include all of Warner's fumbles. Sure Warner throws for a bazillion yards, but he's not playing as well as Pennington this year despite two superstar WRs.

Warner has much better receivers. Pennington has much better running backs. Call it a wash? Or would you like to talk about how much better Miami's offensive line is than Arizona's?

Are you really trying to argue that great WRs don't help a QB's passing numbers more than good RBs?

Not necessarily. Either can help a QB out immensely. But depending on what kind of QB a player is, it depends. A gunslinger like Warner obviously benefits from having great receivers. A more conservative guy like Pennington benefits more from a great running game. To make it more clear, let me put it this way: Switch positions and I am not sure either would excel as much as they are in their current positions. I don't think Warner would do that well with good RBs and average WRs, and I am not sure Pennington would hold up getting hit as often as Warner does considering how much he drops back to throw. Few QBs would, really.

And Warner still has better numbers overall:-Warner has 9 more touchdown passes-Pennington has 6 fewer INTs-Pennington has 8 fewer fumbles-Warner has a high completion percentage-Warner has thrown for more yards-Warner has a higher TD percentage-Pennington has a higher YPA

What you just wrote is why Pennington's numbers are better. And ANY/A takes into account all these things; Pennington's averaging 6.8 ANY/A; Warner is averaging 6.4 ANY/A. The only argument for Warner over Pennington is that while Pennington has been better per throw, Warner's gross number of throws makes him more valuable. I'm amenable to that sort of argument, except for the fact that Warner has a significantly better supporting cast.

Okay, like the net points argument in the best defenses discussion, you are clinging to one particular stat, as if it supersedes and invalidates any other numbers when comparing players/defenses/etc.

And we all know that passing is easier to do when you have a running game, and Warner has never had that luxury. He has had to throw all year with ZERO help in the running game.

Now you're just making things up.

Arizona is dead last in the NFL in rushing yards per game.Arizona is dead last in the NFL in rushing yards per attempt. Okay, maybe that is not ZERO help, technically, but it means that no other QB in the NFL this year (who has played all or most of his teams' games) has had less help with the running game this year than Kurt Warner.

Plus, Boldin has missed 20% of Arizona's games this year, so it is not like Warner has had his two superstars all season to throw to. Interestingly, in the two games earlier this season that Boldin missed, Warner was still fantastic. The New England gamr last week was a bit misleading, as the entire Arizona team looked terrible because of the snow.

I'm not sure what relevance this has; I would think the MVP of the league would be able to play even when there are snowflakes in the air.

Agreed. That is why I have said that Warner is no longer a top candidate for MVP of the league. However, I still think he is a more viable candidate than Chad Pennington, who wouldn't come close to making the top of my list for MVP. Also, the relevance is that you have implied that Warner has done so well because of his great supporting cast (namely, two great WRs), but the numbers quite clearly show that he excelled greatly in two of the three games where one of those two great WRs was not playing. THAT is the relevance.

Chase, Ghost-do you think it's possible Brees has had a better year than Warner or Ryan? IMO the MVP is not going to be "maybe the best QB in his conference". It'll be definitive.

As awesome a rookie as Matt Ryan has been, he has not been as good as Brees or Warner; he is just being given more attention due to the fact that he is a rookie QB who is doing well (and rookie QBs almost always struggle). As for Brees and Warner, both have been great, so it is tough to say which has been better. Also, I still submit that Peyton Manning, who is my current pick for top candidate, will win the MVP award.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Chase, Ghost-do you think it's possible Brees has had a better year than Warner or Ryan? IMO the MVP is not going to be "maybe the best QB in his conference". It'll be definitive.

Yes, I think Brees has been the best QB in the conference and has a better case for MVP than Warner or Ryan. He's not going to win, though.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

Matt CasselNuff said

Nope... in fact that you even brought Cassel up just shows how good the NE system is, and how overrated Brady has been.My vote would be Peyton Manning. He came in recuperating from surgery, he's had no running game, and a shoddy OL, and yet his team is playoff bound. He's carried the team there.The other option, seriously, is Matt Ryan. The Falcons have totally turned it around with Matt Ryan and Michael Turner.

I agree that Manning is a good choice for MVP and that Cassel doesn't merit anything more than an honorable mention (if that). I also agree that Cassel's success emphasizes how good NE's system is, but it hardly proves that Brady has been overrated. However, if you would like to try and make your case in another thread it could make for good off season entertainment. Maybe you could title it "Patriots system makes qb's look better and wr's worse than they really are" or "Switz doesn't like Tom Brady, chapter 19"

 

[valhallan]

Saints fan here and I love Brees, but he shouldn't be the MVP. He's been very poor under pressure this year, particularly in week 13 at Tampa when he threw two picks in the last 2:33 of a 3-point game that basically sealed the Saints fate.As for Warner, he's been brilliant under pressure. A few weeks ago Rotoworld said:

According to STATS Inc., no NFL starting quarterback has been blitzed as often as Kurt Warner this season.Analysis: It hasn't made a difference. In 166 passes against extra pressure, Warner has posted a remarkable 116.0 rating and thrown 13 touchdowns. He's been sacked only four times and thrown just two picks against blitzing defenses.

If Rivers plays lights out on Sunday night, his numbers and the Chargers improbable division crown could put him in the running. How crazy would that be..

 

[Bri]

Pennington?

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Wow, this is going to be a tight race...

My votes go to P. Manning and M. Turner.... these two guys have been the most consistent players in the league and have carried 11 and 12 win teams for the majority of the year more so then any other guys out there and they both have statistcially good numbers.

 

[David Yudkin]

Sounds like Manning is going to win, but I still think Turner (1699/17) and Williams (1518/18) should get some consideration. ADP (1757/10) will probably get some votes, but I don't think he'll win.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Sounds like Manning is going to win, but I still think Turner (1699/17) and Williams (1518/18) should get some consideration. ADP (1757/10) will probably get some votes, but I don't think he'll win.

Warner will probably get some love, too.

 

[thatguy]

My vote would go to Turner.

 

[David Yudkin]

Sounds like Manning is going to win, but I still think Turner (1699/17) and Williams (1518/18) should get some consideration. ADP (1757/10) will probably get some votes, but I don't think he'll win.

Warner will probably get some love, too.

Cardinals had only 1 more win than last year and ended only 9-7. Yes, they made the playoffs but they certainly were not a top tier team this year. Brees had more yards and Rivers more TDs, so while Warner had a great year I don't think he'll get as many votes as it looked like he would a month or two ago.

 

[djcolts]

I think Peyton will win, but not get a majority of the 50 possible votes. Lots of candidates this year - and I think we could get as many as 10 players getting at least one vote (Peyton, Turner, D Williams, Peterson, Pennington, James Harrison, Rivers, Brees, Warner, Ryan).

 

[Ghost Rider]

Sounds like Manning is going to win, but I still think Turner (1699/17) and Williams (1518/18) should get some consideration. ADP (1757/10) will probably get some votes, but I don't think he'll win.

Warner will probably get some love, too.

Cardinals had only 1 more win than last year and ended only 9-7. Yes, they made the playoffs but they certainly were not a top tier team this year. Brees had more yards and Rivers more TDs, so while Warner had a great year I don't think he'll get as many votes as it looked like he would a month or two ago.

Agreed. A month ago, he would have probably won. Now, he will probably finish 4th or 5th, which is why I said he will still get some love (meaning maybe a few votes).

 

[Smeagol]

Can we get a poll added to this thread?

 

[Ghost Rider]

Poll added, with the nine people who seem to get mentioned the most plus the field.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

M. Turner is not getting enough publicity by the general public for his accomplishments this season.....

Only 18 guys in the history of the NFL have ran for more yards than Turner did this season. And only 19 players in the history of the NFL have rushed for more TD's.

Turner also did this as a first time starter with a rookie qb on a team that had 4 wins the previous year and was the major reason his team won 11 games.

 

[MDSkinner]

M. Turner is not getting enough publicity by the general public for his accomplishments this season.....Only 18 guys in the history of the NFL have ran for more yards than Turner did this season. And only 19 players in the history of the NFL have rushed for more TD's.Turner also did this as a first time starter with a rookie qb on a team that had 4 wins the previous year and was the major reason his team won 11 games.

I agree with you 100%. The only thing going against Turner (IMO) is Ryan who is easily the most impressive Rookie QB that I have watched subjectively speaking. If it were some veteran putting up the numbers that Ryan is putting up this year, I am guessing Turner is right in the mix.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

How many wins does Miami have without Pennington? 1-15 to 11-5

 

[Chase Stuart]

How many wins does Miami have without Pennington? 1-15 to 11-5

I love Pennington, but come on, man. He went 1-7 last year with the Jets. Obviously Miami '08 has surrounded him with a much better supporting cast and coaching staff than the '07 Jets. But you're making him sound like Jim Brown meets Joe Montana. Miami added Jake Long, Ricky Williams, a full year out of Ronnie Brown, a much better head coach and a much easier schedule. And went from an awful QB to a very good one.

 

[Bri]

How many wins does Miami have without Pennington? 1-15 to 11-5

I love Pennington, but come on, man. He went 1-7 last year with the Jets. Obviously Miami '08 has surrounded him with a much better supporting cast and coaching staff than the '07 Jets. But you're making him sound like Jim Brown meets Joe Montana. Miami added Jake Long, Ricky Williams, a full year out of Ronnie Brown, a much better head coach and a much easier schedule. And went from an awful QB to a very good one.

Good point, I'm not sure if it matters. Wasn't Brady MVP and they gave him a much better WR corps? I'll check back tomorrow. I'm thoroughly impressed and well it's just not the right time to judge.

 

[Bri]

I think Peyton will win, but not get a majority of the 50 possible votes. Lots of candidates this year - and I think we could get as many as 10 players getting at least one vote (Peyton, Turner, D Williams, Peterson, Pennington, James Harrison, Rivers, Brees, Warner, Ryan).

THIS is why I think Haynesworth has a good shot.I could absolutely see all 10 getting votes plus Ryan or CJ or...some not mentioned that maybe someone is a big fan of. D players "never" win. This is the year for someone to swoop in and win with a low total # of votes.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

How many wins does Miami have without Pennington? 1-15 to 11-5

I love Pennington, but come on, man. He went 1-7 last year with the Jets. Obviously Miami '08 has surrounded him with a much better supporting cast and coaching staff than the '07 Jets. But you're making him sound like Jim Brown meets Joe Montana. Miami added Jake Long, Ricky Williams, a full year out of Ronnie Brown, a much better head coach and a much easier schedule. And went from an awful QB to a very good one.

Chase, you have had one too many beers today to drown those sorrows in my friend, now you and I go way back but lets be serious here for a minute. Penny's record in NY is irrelevant. And besides he had much better targets to throw to last year in COles and Cotchery...Ginn Cammy, and undrafted rookie Bess, totally unproven Fasano, a RB coming off ACL surgery that Miami has been able to hide all season in Ronnie Brown...Ricky Williams was an improvement? A defense that sent their best 2 players packing to other teams? Easy Schedule? It's the same one the Jets played!!! And that's right, they went form a total abortion at QB to a very good QB who made the whole team around him better. He has a very young OL in front of him with Long and Satele anchoring it, a scrappy defense but there are no HoF on that defense I assure you. You are selling Penny way short because of what he did while he was in New York. He threw for the most yards he has ever thrown for, completed over 65% of his passes to guys names Ginn, Fasano, Cobbs, and Bess...not exactly household names, he threw for only 7 interceptions on the season and spear headed an offense that only turned the ball over 13 times the entire season. Just stop already...no one was more important to their team than Penny this season. No Penny and the Miami Dolphins win 4 games tops.

 

[Ghost Rider]

A defense that sent their best 2 players packing to other teams?

I think you mean a defense that went from 28th in the NFL last year to 15th this year.

Easy Schedule?

Yes. The AFC East got eight games against the two worst divisions in football: The AFC West and the NFC West.

Just stop already...no one was more important to their team than Penny this season.

You have got to be kidding. You honestly think that Pennington was more important to the Dolphins than Peyton Manning was to the Colts? Or Michael Turner was to the Falcons?

 

[valhallan]

Can someone make a convincing argument for Manning? Seems like he's just the default..

 

[valhallan]

You honestly think that Pennington was more important to the Dolphins than Peyton Manning was to the Colts? Or Michael Turner was to the Falcons?

I do. But, I would vote for Rivers over all of them

 

[Ministry of Pain]

A defense that sent their best 2 players packing to other teams?

I think you mean a defense that went from 28th in the NFL last year to 15th this year.

Easy Schedule?

Yes. The AFC East got eight games against the two worst divisions in football: The AFC West and the NFC West.

Just stop already...no one was more important to their team than Penny this season.

You have got to be kidding. You honestly think that Pennington was more important to the Dolphins than Peyton Manning was to the Colts? Or Michael Turner was to the Falcons?

Big time. Turner was great but he had some help up front...I can't name you their starting OL but they kept holes open and they did a good job protecting Ryan, a rookie QB.

Manning and the Colts...you could say that any year. Brady and the Patriots, Eli and the Giants...but Penny took a team from the scrap heap at 1-15 and turned them into Division Champs, plus he only got to Miami in August...he didn't have an entire off season or the last 10+ seasons like Manning has had with the Colts.

 

[Bri]

How many wins does Miami have without Pennington? 1-15 to 11-5

I love Pennington, but come on, man. He went 1-7 last year with the Jets. Obviously Miami '08 has surrounded him with a much better supporting cast and coaching staff than the '07 Jets. But you're making him sound like Jim Brown meets Joe Montana. Miami added Jake Long, Ricky Williams, a full year out of Ronnie Brown, a much better head coach and a much easier schedule. And went from an awful QB to a very good one.

Good point, I'm not sure if it matters. Wasn't Brady MVP and they gave him a much better WR corps? I'll check back tomorrow. I'm thoroughly impressed and well it's just not the right time to judge.

I'm a bit off the Pennington train this morning, still impressed but not MVP.

 

[djcolts]

Can someone make a convincing argument for Manning? Seems like he's just the default..

Peter King makes a detailed case for Peyton this morning

 

[MDSkinner]

I love Pennington, but there is no way that he is the MVP of the league. He had a wonderful season and he was clearly one of the missing pieces for Miami this year but he is no more the MVP of the league than is Ryan in my estimation.

If Pennington somehow wins the award I will be happy for him. I just don't see it happening.

 

[kerpow]

Can someone make a convincing argument for Manning? Seems like he's just the default..

Peter King makes a detailed case for Peyton this morning

Its fascinating to hear the full story.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I love Pennington, but there is no way that he is the MVP of the league. He had a wonderful season and he was clearly one of the missing pieces for Miami this year but he is no more the MVP of the league than is Ryan in my estimation.

except I don't love Pennington.

 

[Chase Stuart]

No Penny and the Miami Dolphins win 4 games tops.

So New England loses Brady and they go 11-5, but if Miami lost Pennington they'd go 4-12? Really? Do you think any player in the history of the NFL has been worth seven games to his team?

 

[Our Gang]

No Penny and the Miami Dolphins win 4 games tops.

So New England loses Brady and they go 11-5, but if Miami lost Pennington they'd go 4-12? Really? Do you think any player in the history of the NFL has been worth seven games to his team?

New England lost Brady, but Cassell was a system guy. Like Scott Mitchell to Dan Marino. I am a Pennington fan, but I would say Manning=Rivers>Pennington>Ryan. I can say with a good amount of certainty that Ryan in Miami is not better than Pennington in Miami. Put Rivers or Manning in Miami and they do the same or better than Chad. I don't know if Manning does in San Diego what Rivers did. We should all remember as well that while Manning was comming of knee surgery, Rivers was comming off of a torn ACL- that he tore in January!! He isn't even at the 1 year anniversary.

 

[Bri]

No Penny and the Miami Dolphins win 4 games tops.

So New England loses Brady and they go 11-5, but if Miami lost Pennington they'd go 4-12? Really? Do you think any player in the history of the NFL has been worth seven games to his team?

I think Chase means another vet QB besides Pennington and MOP is thinking of the inexperience behind Pennington

 

[thatguy]

A defense that sent their best 2 players packing to other teams?

I think you mean a defense that went from 28th in the NFL last year to 15th this year.

Easy Schedule?

Yes. The AFC East got eight games against the two worst divisions in football: The AFC West and the NFC West.

Just stop already...no one was more important to their team than Penny this season.

You have got to be kidding. You honestly think that Pennington was more important to the Dolphins than Peyton Manning was to the Colts? Or Michael Turner was to the Falcons?

Big time. Turner was great but he had some help up front...I can't name you their starting OL but they kept holes open and they did a good job protecting Ryan, a rookie QB.

Manning and the Colts...you could say that any year. Brady and the Patriots, Eli and the Giants...but Penny took a team from the scrap heap at 1-15 and turned them into Division Champs, plus he only got to Miami in August...he didn't have an entire off season or the last 10+ seasons like Manning has had with the Colts.

When he got to Miami or how many seasons he had in the system have zero bearing on whether or not he is deserving of MVP. Sure, they make what he did more impressive, but they don't in any way increase his merit in the MVP discussion.

 

[GiantsRule]

You honestly think that Pennington was more important to the Dolphins than Peyton Manning was to the Colts? Or Michael Turner was to the Falcons?

I do. But, I would vote for Rivers over all of them

Yes, that 8-8 record in a ridiculously awful division with two of those wins gift wrapped by Herm Edwards, is certainly deserving of the MVP award. Hands down.

 

[Chase Stuart]

You honestly think that Pennington was more important to the Dolphins than Peyton Manning was to the Colts? Or Michael Turner was to the Falcons?

I do. But, I would vote for Rivers over all of them

Yes, that 8-8 record in a ridiculously awful division with two of those wins gift wrapped by Herm Edwards, is certainly deserving of the MVP award. Hands down.

If Rivers had much better players around him, his team would have gone 14-2. I don't know why that would make Rivers more deserving of any MVP because his hypothetical teammates are stronger and faster than his real teammates.

 

[Tau837]

You honestly think that Pennington was more important to the Dolphins than Peyton Manning was to the Colts? Or Michael Turner was to the Falcons?

I do. But, I would vote for Rivers over all of them

Yes, that 8-8 record in a ridiculously awful division with two of those wins gift wrapped by Herm Edwards, is certainly deserving of the MVP award. Hands down.

If Rivers had much better players around him, his team would have gone 14-2. I don't know why that would make Rivers more deserving of any MVP because his hypothetical teammates are stronger and faster than his real teammates.

We all know the record should have been 9-7 if not for Hochuli. With just one more play made, it is reasonable to think the defense could have stopped 1 of the 2 game winning drives in the Panthers' 2 point win and the Colts' 3 point win, both of which yielded the game winning points with 2 seconds or fewer remaining.That would have been 10-6. Would that have been enough wins for MVP consideration? Rivers wouldn't have done anything different in this scenario... it would have simply required Hochuli to not botch a huge call and the defense to make one more play within the span of the entire season.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Coulda, woulda, shoulda. The Chargers were 8-8. League MVPs do not come from 8-8 teams.