Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
NFL passes new rule to challenge/review pass interference (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Deamon
- Start date
The Frankman
Footballguy
This is MASSIVE. Not only will PI be reviewed, the fact that they managed to get non-calls reviewable is amazing. This is kinda what was initially was voted on awhile ago and only 8 owners approved (need 24 to pass). Through ratifying this, now the actual process can be streamlined in terms of who reviews that, stadium refs of NY review station. What did Gayle Benson and Sean Payton have to promise other owners to get this passed?
ESPN article and Schefter vid
Last edited by a moderator:
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Not sure I like this as it will really forces refs to strictly define pass interference (I don’t mind the “let them play” mentality for the most part). I am concerned that minimal contact situations start getting called and the game further slows down (along with eliminating some big plays). We will see what happens but IMO it looks like a big overreaction on the surface.
Last edited by a moderator:
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Last two minutes just got half an hour longer. Is the NFL going for 5 hour games so they can get in another 25 commercials?
Doug B
Footballguy
It was the obvious right thing for the league owners to do. Not really some kind of freakish change out of left field.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
says the unbiased saints fan.
this rule change is not going to be positive, for reasons named above
Doug B
Footballguy
What? Game getting longer? College football has proven that four-hour non-OT games don’t phase fans. The NFL won’t approach that length, though.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
No one thinks that. Being against this rule does not equate to your above statement. Most of those situations will result in PI.
Last edited by a moderator:
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Awful
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Who is advocating this?
Is a 60 yd penalty based upon the assumption that a WR will catch every pass and therefore any little bump or touch becomes a penalty kosher football?
Nathan R. Jessep
Footballguy
I knew there would be gross overreaction to this. 31 of 32 owners agreed to this. It wasn't just Sean Peyton making the arguments for it, either. I know Jason Garrett was in on it, and I'm sure there were some others too. Most, if not all, of the coaches wanted this. Why? Because they want to get calls right! That's all anyone is arguing for. Get the damn calls right.
And to those acting like it will add "hours" to the game, come on. Reviews take a couple minutes, tops, in most cases. They didn't add challenges. They just opened up what can be challenged (or signaled for review within the final 2 minutes). If anything, I think coaches will be more cautious about using their challenges, since now a more significant play is challengeable.
And yes, I'm a Saints fan, but I'd think that any fan of any team would be willing to trade a couple of minutes for getting the call right if it will benefit your team. That's plenty of time to get another beer.
Doug B
Footballguy
I disagree that this is necessarily the end result of this rule. Doesn't happen in the CFL, where PI is reviewable.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
I can’t believe that any fan of the NFL thinks that more reviews ate good for the game. Hell, these guys already spend 5 minutes on a review and still get half of them wrong by the time its over.
Doug B
Footballguy
Quick question: how many reviews have been added? Can coaches throw more challenges than they could before?
Last two minutes auto-reviews from the booth ... every single pass play really has possible PI that has to be broken down like the Zapruder film? Can't the handfighting still be let go while correcting the Vontaze-Burfict-wannabe stuff?
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Its happening now in the NFL with PI. So do you believe that PI should be a spot foul in the NFL now that they are reviewing? Do you feel the calls are going to get better now that they can put all contact while the ball is in the air under a slow motion microscope? IMO the NFL just took one more huge step to making its product unwatchable. It’s already gotten pretty bad.
Doug B
Footballguy
"All contact"? So let me get this straight: There's no legit way to correct beaten DBs blowing up receivers other than to hyper-correct and also call accidental hip grazes as PI after slow-motion replay? Incidental stuff can and should still be ignored.
Getting egregious calls corrected doesn't mean a whole bunch of ticky-tack stuff has to be called all of a sudden.
Doug B
Footballguy
"Most" isn't good enough. Since it's possible to correct ... get it corrected. Who's still complaining about regular ol' replay for turnovers and scoring plays and such? That's taking something away from on-field refs and dampening the sacrosanct "human element". Why is adding PI a bridge too far?
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
It’s the last two minutes of each half. By this rule, every pass route is going to have to be dissected, right? They review non-calls that should be called as well as calls that are suspect. Doesn’t that mean that every time there is contact while the ball is in the air that it has to be reviewed? Or are you advocating that the review process becomes as subjective as the current penalty call structure is? If that’s the case, how did this make the situation any better? All it did was shift the subjectivity to the booth and then add the nuisance factor of the review.
Doug B
Footballguy
Every pass route dissected? Why? No, I don't think this has to happen at all.
Besides, a lot of the review can be done in near-real time ... no need to stop play or anything like that. Review every route if necessary (cf. targeting reviews in college), but only stop play if a booth reviewer buzzes down.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Stop with the “blown up” hyperbole please. It does not add anything positive to the discussion. A DB “blowing up” a WR is an obvious call - albeit one that was screwed up recently in a very high profile game that likely changed the outcome. That’s not how this rule is going to negatively affect the game.
If you want to discuss how much more inept refs are than 20 or 30 years ago, then let’s do that in a different thread.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Good. So specifically define what pass plays get reviewed and which don’t in black & white please.
Doug B
Footballguy
Why? This doesn't remove subjectivity, nor does it need to.
Again -- correcting the obvious everyone-at-home-can-see-it calls doesn't mean that every ticky-tack 50-50 call has to be pored over. It just doesn't. I don't agree with you all about how this will play out in real games.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Just what the game needed: more Instant Replays!!!!
If they are going to make anything to be challenged then they should strictly abide by the 60 second limit. After 1 minute or review the screen should go black and the determination made. If it takes more than 60 seconds then it is not an egregious mistake and the call of the field should stand. Period.
Also I think the idea that the booth takes over replay in the last 2 minutes and overtime is stupid. Either have the booth handle them all for the entire game or give the coaches two challenges in regulation, one in OT, and when you've used them you are done.
If they are going to make anything to be challenged then they should strictly abide by the 60 second limit. After 1 minute or review the screen should go black and the determination made. If it takes more than 60 seconds then it is not an egregious mistake and the call of the field should stand. Period.
Also I think the idea that the booth takes over replay in the last 2 minutes and overtime is stupid. Either have the booth handle them all for the entire game or give the coaches two challenges in regulation, one in OT, and when you've used them you are done.
Last edited by a moderator:
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Good. So let’s hear it. Define what is subject to review and what isn’t. You’re the proponent for this rule. Convince me that I’m wrong and it’s going to make the game better in its application.
Doug B
Footballguy
Fine with both of these. Agree a lot about the 60-second rule -- when it's obvious, it's obvious. Having to go to a dozen angles and speeds, etc. ... that's close enough to have been let go.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Because the end of an NFL game will now be unwatchable - and now some team is going to get screwed where a "non-call" on the field gets called PI on ticky tack contact letting the offense get into position to kick a game winning FG - it would be pretty ironic if it's the Saints so their crybaby fans get what they wanted.
Doug B
Footballguy
Can't convince you, c'mon now.
Also, to me ... getting the obvious calls right (esp. using a time limit like Godsbrother proposed) makes the game better by definition. I assume we don't even agree there, though.
As for what is subject to review ... it's defined in the rule as written. PI and failure to call PI. Subjectivity is fine (and necessary, anyhow), but the fuzzy line was set in the wrong place. I'm good with near-real-time review of all pass routes after the 2:00 mark. Basically, they'll be taking second and third looks between snaps, and fans watching will not know the difference.
It will be imperfect. There will eventually be a controversy where people will wonder why a reviewer didn't buzz down on a half-second arm grab. Or something like that. But, IMHO, that's acceptable because the overall system gets many more calls correct.
Doug B
Footballguy
What are you guys thinking? How are you expecting this to play out? Every pass play under two minutes goes to a ref-under-the-hood review for 3 minutes?
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
So based upon the above, how did this improve the current situation? You admitted above that they will blow calls despite the review. Well that’s just great. You’re making a strong argument that this a complete over reaction to one badly blown call.
Nathan R. Jessep
Footballguy
As with any rule in any sport, it will mostly come down to how they enforce it. I do not believe that was the spirit of why this rule was changed, nor do I believe that is how it will be carried out, but we shall see.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Pro football was barely watchable before.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
It seems possible based on the "non-call" portion of this rule. By that definition every pass play can be under review. As a fan I don't want to wait and see on every pass whether I should be happy or pissed - let's be reasonable here. Sure there was an egreciously bad call in a playoff game this year - lets move on.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
This ought to be great fun when Michael Thomas gets a game winning TD at the end of a game reversed because he pushed off to catch the ball and the ref on the field let it go.
Doug B
Footballguy
That will be fair. It's not about the Saints. People really think this is only a one-team thing? 31 owners voted for it, then, because ... ?
Doug B
Footballguy
All "under review" means (I expect) is that someone in a booth looks at the play on a monitor in the intervening 5-to-30 seconds after a ref blows the previous play dead. I don't think "under review" means every pass play gets treated like a coach's challenge, where play is stopped and a ref goes under the hood.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
This is absolutely an over reaction to the blown PI call in the playoff game. It’s a knee jerk solution that hasn’t been thought out with long term implications factored in. This is going to end badly, mark my words. The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
Mr. Irrelevant
IBL Representative
That's exactly what it's going to wind up doing. See also: MLB reviewing bang-bang calls on the basepaths, leading to ... a flood of runners being called out because they beat the throw by 20 feet but got pulled a quarter-inch off the bag during the slide.
Once you start introducing frame-by-frame replays of bang-bang calls, common sense goes right out the window.
Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
from what I understand offensive pass interference(OPI) can also be reviewed....I see some major problems here....especially in the last two minutes...
1. if you have a completed pass in the last two minutes....but there could have been OPI (push off whatever)....the clock is still running and the offensive team is rushing to the line to run another play...are you going to stop the clock and buzz the refs on the field that quick....essentially creating a timeout and giving an advantage to someone....
2. one of the biggest OPI in the game is the pick play which happens on just about every "crucial" pass play.....by crucial I mean converting a first down or stuff around the goal line....there are several of these each game and they have always been a pet peeve of mine because they are rarely called....at least now teams can challenge these pick plays.....except of course in the last two minutes then it has to be the booth....and that won't happen.....coaches should get to challenge in last two minutes too....I realize that opens up another can....but if they are going to do it right....do it right
1. if you have a completed pass in the last two minutes....but there could have been OPI (push off whatever)....the clock is still running and the offensive team is rushing to the line to run another play...are you going to stop the clock and buzz the refs on the field that quick....essentially creating a timeout and giving an advantage to someone....
2. one of the biggest OPI in the game is the pick play which happens on just about every "crucial" pass play.....by crucial I mean converting a first down or stuff around the goal line....there are several of these each game and they have always been a pet peeve of mine because they are rarely called....at least now teams can challenge these pick plays.....except of course in the last two minutes then it has to be the booth....and that won't happen.....coaches should get to challenge in last two minutes too....I realize that opens up another can....but if they are going to do it right....do it right
Last edited by a moderator:
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
This is my main worry. Now things that were "missed" (for the better) will be overanalyzed and called PI - perhaps even on Hail Mary type plays where there's always a lot of jostling for position. Imagine how much it will suck when your team loses because of a PI call on a ball tossed up for grabs with no time left to play and the other team gets to kick a FG from the 1 yard line to win the game.
Doug B
Footballguy
Nathan R. Jessep
Footballguy
I agree. I'm reading that that was included in the prior proposal (6b) before they finally settled on this one (6c). I don't see it mentioned in the article though, so guessing that part got replaced.
Steeler
Footballguy
@Doug B
Even if the NFL implements this perfectly (which nobody expects), the frame-by-frame breakdown of calls and non-calls is going to be presented on twitter, espn, etc. This rule change will bring way too much unwanted scrutiny to a play that should remain a bang/bang judgement call in real time. This will generate more negativity with the perceived missed calls than any good this could do to overturn obvious missed calls.
Even if the NFL implements this perfectly (which nobody expects), the frame-by-frame breakdown of calls and non-calls is going to be presented on twitter, espn, etc. This rule change will bring way too much unwanted scrutiny to a play that should remain a bang/bang judgement call in real time. This will generate more negativity with the perceived missed calls than any good this could do to overturn obvious missed calls.
Doug B
Footballguy
The Hail Mary plays can be called the same way they'd be called on the field. Jostling, quick jersey tugs, and hand-fighting can be let go. Horse-collaring, tripping, wrapping up someone's arms for a three-count ... call that kind of stuff.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Doug B
Footballguy
We'll see. I know there will be some "How did the replay booth miss THAT?!?!?" controversies. Tons of them, or a handful? Don't know yet.
Maybe setting expectations up front would help some. No, ticky-tack stuff is not going to get called now. Yes, we'll now catch those two-count jersey clutches and arm bars.
Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
white hat: "after review....we saw a ton of jostling, quick jersey tugs, and hand-fighting by the defense....but we still decided to let it go.....game over".....
Last edited by a moderator:
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
What a silly over reaction to a bad noncall......
Doug B
Footballguy
Same as now -- and of course the ref doesn't and wouldn't address the crowd. As it stands now, it's totally acceptable for an on-field ref to miss those calls in real time, isn't it? Why do on-field real-time refs get the benefit of "no calls missed for the better", to borrow Dr. Octopus's term, but replay refs don't?
Similar threads
