Nick Foles vs Andrew Luck (1 Viewer)

[Snotbubbles]

The numbers point to Foles but you have to realize some things.

Foles was in a new type of offense that defenses had little to no NFL tape on, they do now and will adjust.

Kelly has been running this offense for years. There is more than enough game tape out there. It isn't some revolutionary thing. The QB reads what the defense is giving him and takes it.

Foles lost his best deep threat

Foles doesn't really throw a good deep ball. Jacksons numbers with Foles are substantially lower than without him. When I read these type of comments I get the sense that people think that Jackson was double covered every play.

Foles has a running back that keeps safeties honest

Still does.

Luck lost his best receiver mid season

Foles lost his best receiver in training camp (Maclin).

Luck had very little in terms of running backs

Still does.

Luck is asked to do more then Foles

Irrelevant for fantasy purposes.

Another thing to remember is there are still rumors that Chip Kelly isn't sold on Foles yet, and may pull a Harbaugh and draft a quarterback to groom and replace Foles, no one is replacing Luck.

Not gonna happen this year. There isn't a QB in this draft that would replace Foles. Maybe if they had a shot at Mariota, but they'd have to be awful next year to even be in a position to draft him.

 

[cstu]

I get a little tired of the 'system' talk. You know who else was a system QB - Joe Montana. There's a difference between merely playing in a system and playing at an elite level in one.

People still don't know how amazing Foles was last year.

 

[Amused to Death]

Let's ask the hypothetical question that is probably on a lot of people's minds. If Luck and Foles swapped teams, how would you feel about them? What do you think their NFL and fantasy stats would look like in that cases?

While we're doing hypotheticals, imagine Foles was a 1st round pick and Luck was a 4th. Would people still feel the same about Luck given what he's accomplished so far?

 

[B-Deep]

I get a little tired of the 'system' talk. You know who else was a system QB - Joe Montana. There's a difference between merely playing in a system and playing at an elite level in one.

People still don't know how amazing Foles was last year.

foles was amazing last year

that doesn't convince me he will be this year. I can certainly understand how it may convince some people

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

I get a little tired of the 'system' talk. You know who else was a system QB - Joe Montana. There's a difference between merely playing in a system and playing at an elite level in one.

People still don't know how amazing Foles was last year.

Agreed. People struggle to accept when a guy plays at such an elite level and came out of no where to do so (especially at QB). I think there are 3 things that happen when someone like Foles makes some noise in fantasy football. The 1 side thinks it was a fluke and no one can play at such an elite level without it being a fluke and it won't happen again. Then there is the other side that sees it as all Foles needed was an opportunity and he is going to continue to play at a very good level and even if it is not as elite as last year he is a franchise QB. Lastly, you have the fence sitters who are just going to wait and see who Foles actually is. I tend to think Foles is better than people give him credit for. I don't think last year was a fluke, but see it as a young QB that found himself gaining confidence in his ability to play in the NFL. I think he is going to continue to play well and put up some nice numbers. I have Luck ranked ahead of Foles in dynasty, but I don't think it is by this super large margin.

 

[Amused to Death]

I get a little tired of the 'system' talk. You know who else was a system QB - Joe Montana. There's a difference between merely playing in a system and playing at an elite level in one.

People still don't know how amazing Foles was last year.

The system talk is funny to me. Last year all the talk was how Foles COULDN'T run Kellys system. Now he's a product of it??

 

[Xue]

To the people saying Luck is "only going to get better", can you quantify it? What YPA can you predict/project?

 

[bagger]

This thread tells me how overrated foles is going to be this year in terms of adp.

People here are taking a partial year season and extrapolating that as if that can be repeated at the same level over 16 games.

By the way people are talking he will be drafted by round 4.

I'd rather have a guy like cutler honestly that I can get in the 10th and may still outperform foles.

 

[jurb26]

This thread tells me how overrated foles is going to be this year in terms of adp.

People here are taking a partial year season and extrapolating that as if that can be repeated at the same level over 16 games.

By the way people are talking he will be drafted by round 4.

I'd rather have a guy like cutler honestly that I can get in the 10th and may still outperform foles.

I agree. Maintaining his pace from last year will be difficult enough, let alone improving on it. All while not playing one of the easiest schedules in football and losing his best WR.

 

[jurb26]

Let's ask the hypothetical question that is probably on a lot of people's minds. If Luck and Foles swapped teams, how would you feel about them? What do you think their NFL and fantasy stats would look like in that cases?

While we're doing hypotheticals, imagine Foles was a 1st round pick and Luck was a 4th. Would people still feel the same about Luck given what he's accomplished so far?

Luck has taken a team that was the worst in all of football the year before he got there to the playoffs in back to back years and won a playoff game last year. Yeah, I think people would still feel the same about Luck. Foles, I don't know.

 

[ShaHBucks]

Let's ask the hypothetical question that is probably on a lot of people's minds. If Luck and Foles swapped teams, how would you feel about them? What do you think their NFL and fantasy stats would look like in that cases?

While we're doing hypotheticals, imagine Foles was a 1st round pick and Luck was a 4th. Would people still feel the same about Luck given what he's accomplished so far?

Luck has taken a team that was the worst in all of football the year before he got there to the playoffs in back to back years and won a playoff game last year. Yeah, I think people would still feel the same about Luck. Foles, I don't know.

And the Eagles had the 4th pick in the last draft and Foles went to the playoffs. It's a wash

 

[B-Deep]

fantasy folks might consider foles as accomplished as luck, i don't think from an NFL standpoint that is true

i think luck has proven to me he is a legit NFL qb and will be going forward, i need to see another season from foles before i make that judgement

 

[Bigboy10182000]

This thread tells me how overrated foles is going to be this year in terms of adp.

People here are taking a partial year season and extrapolating that as if that can be repeated at the same level over 16 games.

By the way people are talking he will be drafted by round 4.

I'd rather have a guy like cutler honestly that I can get in the 10th and may still outperform foles.

I agree. Maintaining his pace from last year will be difficult enough, let alone improving on it. All while not playing one of the easiest schedules in football and losing his best WR.

I don't want to nitpick but can we not act like we know what kind of schedule Foles will face this year? For all we know it ends up worse than last years.

 

[jurb26]

This thread tells me how overrated foles is going to be this year in terms of adp.

People here are taking a partial year season and extrapolating that as if that can be repeated at the same level over 16 games.

By the way people are talking he will be drafted by round 4.

I'd rather have a guy like cutler honestly that I can get in the 10th and may still outperform foles.

I agree. Maintaining his pace from last year will be difficult enough, let alone improving on it. All while not playing one of the easiest schedules in football and losing his best WR.

I don't want to nitpick but can we not act like we know what kind of schedule Foles will face this year? For all we know it ends up worse than last years.

It could, but it's not likely.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

I get a little tired of the 'system' talk. You know who else was a system QB - Joe Montana. There's a difference between merely playing in a system and playing at an elite level in one.

People still don't know how amazing Foles was last year.

And Tom Brady.

Give me a good QB with stable coaching and a system that suits him to a "T" over everyone except a HOF level pure passing talent.

That's ultimately why I'm not moving Foles even though I have some doubts about last year. Kelly looks and acts like he knows what he's doing. And finding someone to replace even an average NFL starting QB is hard. So barring something unexpected, Foles will be Kelly's guy going forward. It's possible that ten years from now we'll look back and Kelly + Foles = Bill + Tom.

I also think Foles best historical analog is Roethlisberger. Except that I expect Foles to avoid motorcycle crashes, stumblebum drunkenness, rape cases and general dbaggery. So his floor is fairly high even if he's not the next big thing.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

This thread tells me how overrated foles is going to be this year in terms of adp.

People here are taking a partial year season and extrapolating that as if that can be repeated at the same level over 16 games.

By the way people are talking he will be drafted by round 4.

I'd rather have a guy like cutler honestly that I can get in the 10th and may still outperform foles.

I agree. Maintaining his pace from last year will be difficult enough, let alone improving on it. All while not playing one of the easiest schedules in football and losing his best WR.

I don't want to nitpick but can we not act like we know what kind of schedule Foles will face this year? For all we know it ends up worse than last years.

Almost no chance. His schedule last year was the easiest of the 900+ QB seasons I looked at (1978-2013), and he adds the NFC West this year.

 

[jesseasi]

I get a little tired of the 'system' talk. You know who else was a system QB - Joe Montana. There's a difference between merely playing in a system and playing at an elite level in one.

People still don't know how amazing Foles was last year.

foles was amazing last year

that doesn't convince me he will be this year. I can certainly understand how it may convince some people

Reminds me of Kurt Warner. I remember his first game of the season. He came out and had a huge game - I remember telling my buddy who was new to fantasy football that year - "Hey go pick this guy up" - Never did I think he was legit. Had I thought he was legit I would have snatched him up for myself.

I guess Kurt Warner was a product of the system - oh wait - he was awesome again in Arizona.....

 

[Bigboy10182000]

This thread tells me how overrated foles is going to be this year in terms of adp.

People here are taking a partial year season and extrapolating that as if that can be repeated at the same level over 16 games.

By the way people are talking he will be drafted by round 4.

I'd rather have a guy like cutler honestly that I can get in the 10th and may still outperform foles.

I agree. Maintaining his pace from last year will be difficult enough, let alone improving on it. All while not playing one of the easiest schedules in football and losing his best WR.

I don't want to nitpick but can we not act like we know what kind of schedule Foles will face this year? For all we know it ends up worse than last years.

Almost no chance. His schedule last year was the easiest of the 900+ QB seasons I looked at (1978-2013), and he adds the NFC West this year.

My point is that we don't know how his schedule will look now. It could be way harder or slightly harder, thats more of a wait and see type of thing IMHO

 

[B-Deep]

I get a little tired of the 'system' talk. You know who else was a system QB - Joe Montana. There's a difference between merely playing in a system and playing at an elite level in one.

People still don't know how amazing Foles was last year.

foles was amazing last year

that doesn't convince me he will be this year. I can certainly understand how it may convince some people

Reminds me of Kurt Warner. I remember his first game of the season. He came out and had a huge game - I remember telling my buddy who was new to fantasy football that year - "Hey go pick this guy up" - Never did I think he was legit. Had I thought he was legit I would have snatched him up for myself.

I guess Kurt Warner was a product of the system - oh wait - he was awesome again in Arizona.....

or scott mitchell

there are examples both ways

 

[ShaHBucks]

One of my buddies was saying the same system stuff when Foles did well in Andy's offense. Funny (to me at least).

 

[ShaHBucks]

It's like evertime a QB outperforms draft expectations we give the credit to the coaches. Gruden gets a new gig, Bill Lazor gets a new gig ect

 

[B-Deep]

One of my buddies was saying the same system stuff when Foles did well in Andy's offense. Funny (to me at least).

yet he was unable to win the starting job

look i am not syaing he sucks, i am saying everyone, including Chip Kelly, looked at his work and thought he was not an elite QB

last year he proved them all wrong, but he still has to prove he can sustain that success, and i don't mean to that exact level, but he has to show he can be an elite QB. There is every chance he does that this season, but i thin there are a lot of questions that make me think he could fall short. That is what is great about this game, he may be the next great star and lift a lot of fantasy teams to their titles, or he could struggle and ruin a lot of teams. If it were simple everyone would get it right and this would be boring.The book is still out on Foles. Will his season 2 live up to the expectations he now has? If not that does not even rule him out long term. I just think his future is hard to predict

If i had to bet i'd bet he does pretty well next season, but not as great as last season, there's just a lot of questions right now to me .I assume that by the time fantasy drafts get going he'll be getting mocked pretty high, probably even above luck based on last season. I think for where he will be drafted i'll be passing on him for someone with fewer questions, and to me that includes Luck.

 

[ShaHBucks]

One of my buddies was saying the same system stuff when Foles did well in Andy's offense. Funny (to me at least).

yet he was unable to win the starting joblook i am not syaing he sucks, i am saying everyone, including Chip Kelly, looked at his work and thought he was not an elite QB

last year he proved them all wrong, but he still has to prove he can sustain that success, and i don't mean to that exact level, but he has to show he can be an elite QB. There is every chance he does that this season, but i thin there are a lot of questions that make me think he could fall short. That is what is great about this game, he may be the next great star and lift a lot of fantasy teams to their titles, or he could struggle and ruin a lot of teams. If it were simple everyone would get it right and this would be boring.The book is still out on Foles. Will his season 2 live up to the expectations he now has? If not that does not even rule him out long term. I just think his future is hard to predict

If i had to bet i'd bet he does pretty well next season, but not as great as last season, there's just a lot of questions right now to me .I assume that by the time fantasy drafts get going he'll be getting mocked pretty high, probably even above luck based on last season. I think for where he will be drafted i'll be passing on him for someone with fewer questions, and to me that includes Luck.

And that's how coaches with 'magical systems' get fired. They watched him play everyday for months and still couldnt ID his talent, so lets not act like they're infallible or he flopped in the preseason. He played better than Vick as a rookie in the preseason too.

 

[B-Deep]

One of my buddies was saying the same system stuff when Foles did well in Andy's offense. Funny (to me at least).

yet he was unable to win the starting joblook i am not syaing he sucks, i am saying everyone, including Chip Kelly, looked at his work and thought he was not an elite QB

last year he proved them all wrong, but he still has to prove he can sustain that success, and i don't mean to that exact level, but he has to show he can be an elite QB. There is every chance he does that this season, but i thin there are a lot of questions that make me think he could fall short. That is what is great about this game, he may be the next great star and lift a lot of fantasy teams to their titles, or he could struggle and ruin a lot of teams. If it were simple everyone would get it right and this would be boring.The book is still out on Foles. Will his season 2 live up to the expectations he now has? If not that does not even rule him out long term. I just think his future is hard to predict

If i had to bet i'd bet he does pretty well next season, but not as great as last season, there's just a lot of questions right now to me .I assume that by the time fantasy drafts get going he'll be getting mocked pretty high, probably even above luck based on last season. I think for where he will be drafted i'll be passing on him for someone with fewer questions, and to me that includes Luck.

And that's how coaches with 'magical systems' get fired. They watched him play everyday for months and still couldnt ID his talent, so lets not act like they're infallible or he flopped in the preseason. He played better than Vick as a rookie in the preseason too.

so what does this say about chip kelly?

was it so obvious that Foles is elite that we should question why it took a vick injury for kelly to make the inevitable switch to the superior QB? What if he is making a similar error in other places and playing inferior players while elite talents ride the pine?

perhaps they should just consult the shark pool, as we clearly have talent evaluation down to an infallible science

 

[ShaHBucks]

One of my buddies was saying the same system stuff when Foles did well in Andy's offense. Funny (to me at least).

yet he was unable to win the starting joblook i am not syaing he sucks, i am saying everyone, including Chip Kelly, looked at his work and thought he was not an elite QB

last year he proved them all wrong, but he still has to prove he can sustain that success, and i don't mean to that exact level, but he has to show he can be an elite QB. There is every chance he does that this season, but i thin there are a lot of questions that make me think he could fall short. That is what is great about this game, he may be the next great star and lift a lot of fantasy teams to their titles, or he could struggle and ruin a lot of teams. If it were simple everyone would get it right and this would be boring.The book is still out on Foles. Will his season 2 live up to the expectations he now has? If not that does not even rule him out long term. I just think his future is hard to predict

If i had to bet i'd bet he does pretty well next season, but not as great as last season, there's just a lot of questions right now to me .I assume that by the time fantasy drafts get going he'll be getting mocked pretty high, probably even above luck based on last season. I think for where he will be drafted i'll be passing on him for someone with fewer questions, and to me that includes Luck.

And that's how coaches with 'magical systems' get fired. They watched him play everyday for months and still couldnt ID his talent, so lets not act like they're infallible or he flopped in the preseason. He played better than Vick as a rookie in the preseason too.

so what does this say about chip kelly?was it so obvious that Foles is elite that we should question why it took a vick injury for kelly to make the inevitable switch to the superior QB? What if he is making a similar error in other places and playing inferior players while elite talents ride the pine?

perhaps they should just consult the shark pool, as we clearly have talent evaluation down to an infallible science

Whatever you want it to I guess. Matt Lienart started of Kurt Warner. It happends. Your eyes can deceive you.

 

[jesseasi]

One of my buddies was saying the same system stuff when Foles did well in Andy's offense. Funny (to me at least).

yet he was unable to win the starting joblook i am not syaing he sucks, i am saying everyone, including Chip Kelly, looked at his work and thought he was not an elite QB

last year he proved them all wrong, but he still has to prove he can sustain that success, and i don't mean to that exact level, but he has to show he can be an elite QB. There is every chance he does that this season, but i thin there are a lot of questions that make me think he could fall short. That is what is great about this game, he may be the next great star and lift a lot of fantasy teams to their titles, or he could struggle and ruin a lot of teams. If it were simple everyone would get it right and this would be boring.The book is still out on Foles. Will his season 2 live up to the expectations he now has? If not that does not even rule him out long term. I just think his future is hard to predict

If i had to bet i'd bet he does pretty well next season, but not as great as last season, there's just a lot of questions right now to me .I assume that by the time fantasy drafts get going he'll be getting mocked pretty high, probably even above luck based on last season. I think for where he will be drafted i'll be passing on him for someone with fewer questions, and to me that includes Luck.

And that's how coaches with 'magical systems' get fired. They watched him play everyday for months and still couldnt ID his talent, so lets not act like they're infallible or he flopped in the preseason. He played better than Vick as a rookie in the preseason too.

so what does this say about chip kelly?was it so obvious that Foles is elite that we should question why it took a vick injury for kelly to make the inevitable switch to the superior QB? What if he is making a similar error in other places and playing inferior players while elite talents ride the pine?

perhaps they should just consult the shark pool, as we clearly have talent evaluation down to an infallible science

Whatever you want it to I guess.Matt Lienart started of Kurt Warner. It happends. Your eyes can deceive you.

I think coaches also take a path of least resistance. I think starting Vick last year was the "safe" decision. I don't think the Eagles went into the season thinking they were a playoff team - and seeing what Vick had left was the safe route to start the season. I am sure when Kelly took the job - he looked at the roster and had preconceived notions as to who his starters would be and what type of system he was going to run. Vick was probably the clear choice - since he was way more mobile. Had he started Foles at the start of the season who knows how Vick would have handled it or how the media and fans would have responded. As a first year coach - he had the luxury of being "safe"

I will probably get blasted for this - but it is just my opinion.

That is why I give Pete Carroll a ton of credit. Deciding to go with Wilson as the starter after signing Matt Flynn to a big contract took some serious balls.

 

[Xue]

One of my buddies was saying the same system stuff when Foles did well in Andy's offense. Funny (to me at least).

yet he was unable to win the starting job

look i am not syaing he sucks, i am saying everyone, including Chip Kelly, looked at his work and thought he was not an elite QB

last year he proved them all wrong, but he still has to prove he can sustain that success, and i don't mean to that exact level, but he has to show he can be an elite QB. There is every chance he does that this season, but i thin there are a lot of questions that make me think he could fall short. That is what is great about this game, he may be the next great star and lift a lot of fantasy teams to their titles, or he could struggle and ruin a lot of teams. If it were simple everyone would get it right and this would be boring.The book is still out on Foles. Will his season 2 live up to the expectations he now has? If not that does not even rule him out long term. I just think his future is hard to predict

If i had to bet i'd bet he does pretty well next season, but not as great as last season, there's just a lot of questions right now to me .I assume that by the time fantasy drafts get going he'll be getting mocked pretty high, probably even above luck based on last season. I think for where he will be drafted i'll be passing on him for someone with fewer questions, and to me that includes Luck.

Kelly didn't draft Foles. Vick was a well known-commodity with running ability and huge arm that matched what Kelly wanted to do.

Kelly's system is more advantageous to the run game than the passing game. McCoy averaged 5+ YPC for only the 2nd time in his career and Vick averaged 8+ YPC for only the 2nd time in his career.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

I think coaches also take a path of least resistance. I think starting Vick last year was the "safe" decision. I don't think the Eagles went into the season thinking they were a playoff team - and seeing what Vick had left was the safe route to start the season. I am sure when Kelly took the job - he looked at the roster and had preconceived notions as to who his starters would be and what type of system he was going to run. Vick was probably the clear choice - since he was way more mobile. Had he started Foles at the start of the season who knows how Vick would have handled it or how the media and fans would have responded. As a first year coach - he had the luxury of being "safe"
I will probably get blasted for this - but it is just my opinion.

That is why I give Pete Carroll a ton of credit. Deciding to go with Wilson as the starter after signing Matt Flynn to a big contract took some serious balls.

Starting Vick wasnt a safe decision. Kelly got here and said it was an open competition and Vick won. What some dont realize is that even though Vick won Foles had great numbers as well for the time he played.....but if you're a rookie HC and you say the job is open you have to play the best man.

Thats what Pete and Chip both did

 

[ShaHBucks]

I think coaches also take a path of least resistance. I think starting Vick last year was the "safe" decision. I don't think the Eagles went into the season thinking they were a playoff team - and seeing what Vick had left was the safe route to start the season. I am sure when Kelly took the job - he looked at the roster and had preconceived notions as to who his starters would be and what type of system he was going to run. Vick was probably the clear choice - since he was way more mobile. Had he started Foles at the start of the season who knows how Vick would have handled it or how the media and fans would have responded. As a first year coach - he had the luxury of being "safe"

I will probably get blasted for this - but it is just my opinion.

That is why I give Pete Carroll a ton of credit. Deciding to go with Wilson as the starter after signing Matt Flynn to a big contract took some serious balls.

Starting Vick wasnt a safe decision. Kelly got here and said it was an open competition and Vick won. What some dont realize is that even though Vick won Foles had great numbers as well for the time he played.....but if you're a rookie HC and you say the job is open you have to play the best man.

Thats what Pete and Chip both did

Then next week Foles goes 10/11 lol

 

[Bigboy10182000]

I think coaches also take a path of least resistance. I think starting Vick last year was the "safe" decision. I don't think the Eagles went into the season thinking they were a playoff team - and seeing what Vick had left was the safe route to start the season. I am sure when Kelly took the job - he looked at the roster and had preconceived notions as to who his starters would be and what type of system he was going to run. Vick was probably the clear choice - since he was way more mobile. Had he started Foles at the start of the season who knows how Vick would have handled it or how the media and fans would have responded. As a first year coach - he had the luxury of being "safe"

I will probably get blasted for this - but it is just my opinion.

That is why I give Pete Carroll a ton of credit. Deciding to go with Wilson as the starter after signing Matt Flynn to a big contract took some serious balls.

Starting Vick wasnt a safe decision. Kelly got here and said it was an open competition and Vick won. What some dont realize is that even though Vick won Foles had great numbers as well for the time he played.....but if you're a rookie HC and you say the job is open you have to play the best man.

Thats what Pete and Chip both did

Then next week Foles goes 10/11 lol

Yep! I think a lot of people see how Foles lost to Vick but look no further than that. I don't have the numbers but I know Nick did really well when he played but Vick didnt turn the ball over and played great as well.

 

[jurb26]

So is it possible Kelly is a guy who values his system over the player(s)? Seems that way. If so, that doesn't bode well for the longevity of Foles in Philly. You would think he will continue to do well, how well is up to debate, and eventually want paid.

 

[Amused to Death]

Let's ask the hypothetical question that is probably on a lot of people's minds. If Luck and Foles swapped teams, how would you feel about them? What do you think their NFL and fantasy stats would look like in that cases?

While we're doing hypotheticals, imagine Foles was a 1st round pick and Luck was a 4th. Would people still feel the same about Luck given what he's accomplished so far?

Luck has taken a team that was the worst in all of football the year before he got there to the playoffs in back to back years and won a playoff game last year. Yeah, I think people would still feel the same about Luck. Foles, I don't know.

And Foles took over a team that was 4-12 the previous year and had a 2-4 record before getting his chance to start. Then went 8-2 to win the division and had a lead the last time he was on the field in their only playoff game.

 

[jesseasi]

Let's ask the hypothetical question that is probably on a lot of people's minds. If Luck and Foles swapped teams, how would you feel about them? What do you think their NFL and fantasy stats would look like in that cases?

While we're doing hypotheticals, imagine Foles was a 1st round pick and Luck was a 4th. Would people still feel the same about Luck given what he's accomplished so far?

Luck has taken a team that was the worst in all of football the year before he got there to the playoffs in back to back years and won a playoff game last year. Yeah, I think people would still feel the same about Luck. Foles, I don't know.

And Foles took over a team that was 4-12 the previous year and had a 2-4 record before getting his chance to start. Then went 8-2 to win the division and had a lead the last time he was on the field in their only playoff game.

I wonder if Foles threw 3 INT's that game against the Saints but won (helped by the star player got hurt (IE Jamal Charles)) - then the next week goes to Seattle and throw's 4 INT's in a total white wash loss - if we would still be talking about Foles as a guy who is going to be a 10 year starter.

Gotta give the NE Defense credit though. They faced the likes of EJ Manual, Geno Smith 2x, Josh Freeman, Case Keenam, Jason Campbell, Ryan Tennehill 2x, Thaddeus Lewis and only managed to intercept one QB 4 times in a game. Andrew Luck!

 

[jesseasi]

Let's ask the hypothetical question that is probably on a lot of people's minds. If Luck and Foles swapped teams, how would you feel about them? What do you think their NFL and fantasy stats would look like in that cases?

While we're doing hypotheticals, imagine Foles was a 1st round pick and Luck was a 4th. Would people still feel the same about Luck given what he's accomplished so far?

Luck has taken a team that was the worst in all of football the year before he got there to the playoffs in back to back years and won a playoff game last year. Yeah, I think people would still feel the same about Luck. Foles, I don't know.

And Foles took over a team that was 4-12 the previous year and had a 2-4 record before getting his chance to start. Then went 8-2 to win the division and had a lead the last time he was on the field in their only playoff game.

I wonder if Foles threw 3 INT's that game against the Saints but won (helped by the star player got hurt (IE Jamal Charles)) - then the next week goes to Seattle and throw's 4 INT's in a total white wash loss - if we would still be talking about Foles as a guy who is going to be a 10 year starter.

Gotta give the NE Defense credit though. They faced the likes of EJ Manual, Geno Smith 2x, Josh Freeman, Case Keenam, Jason Campbell, Ryan Tennehill 2x, Thaddeus Lewis and only managed to intercept one QB 4 times in a game. Andrew Luck!

Just gotta give Luck the free pass. He is a gamer! The #1 pick! The once in a generation talent! ESPN and Mel Kiper say so!

 

[jurb26]

Well I'm sure Phillys #1 ranked rush offense last year had nothing to do with helping Foles efficiency and helping Philly win a few games.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

I'm sure Foles efficiency helped McCoy run so well last season too.

 

[KellysHeroes]

Management in Indy needs to wake up. The whole 2012 draft was to build a Passing attack and they want to run the ball??!!! They got Luck, Allen, move TE Fleener, TY Hilton has become a steal, bring in Nicks and squeeze what ever you can out of Wayne.

 

[Tool]

I get a little tired of the 'system' talk. You know who else was a system QB - Joe Montana. There's a difference between merely playing in a system and playing at an elite level in one.

People still don't know how amazing Foles was last year.

Agreed. People struggle to accept when a guy plays at such an elite level and came out of no where to do so (especially at QB). I think there are 3 things that happen when someone like Foles makes some noise in fantasy football. The 1 side thinks it was a fluke and no one can play at such an elite level without it being a fluke and it won't happen again. Then there is the other side that sees it as all Foles needed was an opportunity and he is going to continue to play at a very good level and even if it is not as elite as last year he is a franchise QB. Lastly, you have the fence sitters who are just going to wait and see who Foles actually is. I tend to think Foles is better than people give him credit for. I don't think last year was a fluke, but see it as a young QB that found himself gaining confidence in his ability to play in the NFL. I think he is going to continue to play well and put up some nice numbers. I have Luck ranked ahead of Foles in dynasty, but I don't think it is by this super large margin.

Agree.

 

[lbouchard]

I think Foles' rookie season is being underrated by a lot here. He stepped in with no practice and into a dumpster fire situation (no McCoy, OL decimated, etc) and performed pretty well for a rookie. Definitely not like Luck was a lot better than him rookie year. Foles could regress from last year and Luck could improve and Foles would still be comfortably ahead. I think Foles is the no-brainer choice in redraft.

 

[jurb26]

I'm sure Foles efficiency helped McCoy run so well last season too.

Not really. It's been a top 5 rushing attack 3 of the 4 years McCoy has been the starter.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

I'm sure Foles efficiency helped McCoy run so well last season too.

Not really. It's been a top 5 rushing attack 3 of the 4 years McCoy has been the starter.

So what?

 

[bagger]

I think Foles' rookie season is being underrated by a lot here. He stepped in with no practice and into a dumpster fire situation (no McCoy, OL decimated, etc) and performed pretty well for a rookie. Definitely not like Luck was a lot better than him rookie year. Foles could regress from last year and Luck could improve and Foles would still be comfortably ahead. I think Foles is the no-brainer choice in redraft.

no brainer choice to be drafted when?

 

[jurb26]

I'm sure Foles efficiency helped McCoy run so well last season too.

Not really. It's been a top 5 rushing attack 3 of the 4 years McCoy has been the starter.

So what?

So, Philly has been effective running the ball with and without Foles. Acting like Foles opened it up is false.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

I'm sure Foles efficiency helped McCoy run so well last season too.

Not really. It's been a top 5 rushing attack 3 of the 4 years McCoy has been the starter.

So what?

So, Philly has been effective running the ball with and without Foles. Acting like Foles opened it up is false.

Sorry, you can't attribute that just to McCoy. In fact, there is an obvious reason the Eagles did so well in 2 years prior to 2013 which has very little to do with this year. Either you are not paying attention or are just being dishonest.

 

[Amused to Death]

I'm sure Foles efficiency helped McCoy run so well last season too.

Not really. It's been a top 5 rushing attack 3 of the 4 years McCoy has been the starter.

And if you remove Vick's rushing numbers over the last 4 years the Eagles rushing offense ranks:

2010 20th

2011 22nd

2012 26th

2013 3rd

 

[MoveToSkypager]

I'm sure Foles efficiency helped McCoy run so well last season too.

Not really. It's been a top 5 rushing attack 3 of the 4 years McCoy has been the starter.

And if you remove Vick's rushing numbers over the last 4 years the Eagles rushing offense ranks:

2010 20th

2011 22nd

2012 26th

2013 3rd

You should have let him figure it out. But maybe he's working on a treatise that proves Vick's rushing yards in 2011 and 2010 past makes Foles a better passer in 2013. That would be fascinating.

 

[DAG]

I get a little tired of the 'system' talk. You know who else was a system QB - Joe Montana. There's a difference between merely playing in a system and playing at an elite level in one.

People still don't know how amazing Foles was last year.

And Tom Brady.

Give me a good QB with stable coaching and a system that suits him to a "T" over everyone except a HOF level pure passing talent.

That's ultimately why I'm not moving Foles even though I have some doubts about last year. Kelly looks and acts like he knows what he's doing. And finding someone to replace even an average NFL starting QB is hard. So barring something unexpected, Foles will be Kelly's guy going forward. It's possible that ten years from now we'll look back and Kelly + Foles = Bill + Tom.

I also think Foles best historical analog is Roethlisberger. Except that I expect Foles to avoid motorcycle crashes, stumblebum drunkenness, rape cases and general dbaggery. So his floor is fairly high even if he's not the next big thing.

I couldn't agree more. I've never understood holding a good system against individual players in FF. The only exception I could imagine is if there were legitimate concerns that the coach or coordinator were going to get fired or hired away, as in imminently. Otherwise, whenever I've drafted a player in a good system, the system came with him free of charge. If you can combine a good offensive system with a stable franchise, like the Eagles, then that's all gravy to me.

As for why Chip Kelly didn't see Foles as a starter before last year, why do we assume he was looking at the same guy the whole time? It's pretty clear to me that Foles was decent and then got a lot better; or maybe he just marinated in the system for long enough?

 

[GoBirds]

I'm sure Foles efficiency helped McCoy run so well last season too.

Not really. It's been a top 5 rushing attack 3 of the 4 years McCoy has been the starter.

And if you remove Vick's rushing numbers over the last 4 years the Eagles rushing offense ranks:2010 20th

2011 22nd

2012 26th

2013 3rd

Boom.

 

[Amused to Death]

I'm sure Foles efficiency helped McCoy run so well last season too.

Not really. It's been a top 5 rushing attack 3 of the 4 years McCoy has been the starter.

And if you remove Vick's rushing numbers over the last 4 years the Eagles rushing offense ranks:

2010 20th

2011 22nd

2012 26th

2013 3rd

You should have let him figure it out. But maybe he's working on a treatise that proves Vick's rushing yards in 2011 and 2010 past makes Foles a better passer in 2013. That would be fascinating.

And in '09 (before Vick) they were....22nd.

 

[Xue]

I'm sure Foles efficiency helped McCoy run so well last season too.

Not really. It's been a top 5 rushing attack 3 of the 4 years McCoy has been the starter.

So what?

So, Philly has been effective running the ball with and without Foles. Acting like Foles opened it up is false.

Efficiency does not equal Totals. Efficiency = YPC.

I already posted this above, but: "McCoy averaged 5+ YPC for only the 2nd time in his career and Vick averaged 8+ YPC for only the 2nd time in his career."

Kelly didn't just make Foles, Kelly made the whole offense.