NY pays over 200k to normalize for kids only conservative drag queen attire and nothing else. (1 Viewer)

[parasaurolophus]

I think you may be getting confused between sexual orientation (gay/straight), a particular kink (autogynephilia/cross-dressing), and transgenderism.  Those are three distinct things you seem to conflating.  

Most people who cross-dress are straight, not gay.

Most gay people don't cross-dress.

Transgender people seem more likely to be gay than normal, but I don't even honestly know if that's borne out statistically and it's certainly not a one-to-one relationship.  Trans people can be straight, gay, bi, or whatever.

Pretty sure most drag queens are gay. That doesn't really matter for this discussion though. 

 

[djmich]

Why is one ok and not the other? 

The same reason why a woman teaching elementary school in appropriate garb is acceptable (whether they were born a woman or a man) and a woman walking off the set of moulin rouge is not.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Pretty sure most drag queens are gay. That doesn't really matter for this discussion though. 

Okay, fair enough.  When I think of cross-dressing, my mind fairly or unfairly goes to male MPs in the UK.  You're probably right about drag queens.

You're right that it doesn't matter though.  Gay guys reading books to kids is fine of course.

 

[Captain Cranks]

I think you may be getting confused between sexual orientation (gay/straight), a particular kink (autogynephilia/cross-dressing), and transgenderism.  Those are three distinct things you seem to conflating.  

Most people who cross-dress are straight, not gay.

Most gay people don't cross-dress.

Transgender people seem more likely to be gay than normal, but I don't even honestly know if that's borne out statistically and it's certainly not a one-to-one relationship.  Trans people can be straight, gay, bi, or whatever.

This article speaks to the situation I'm referring to. 

"But in truth, cross-dressing is grounded in a highly logical and universal desire: the wish to be, for a time, the gender one admires, is excited by – and perhaps loves. Dressing like a woman is merely a dramatic, yet essentially reasonable, way of getting closer to the experiences of the sex one is profoundly curious about – and yet has been (somewhat arbitrarily) barred from."

 

[Manster]

Further obscuring the gender lines.  Further confusing children.  Seriously, how does this seem like a good idea?  Might as well have adults who are "furries" read to em next.....hell, the kids are already doing all this anyway.  I didn't even know what a furry was until my daughter told me she had a couple of em in class.....gotta be some proud parents right there.

 

[sho nuff]

Accepting entertainers that show kids their junk.

Wait, what?  Who is  advocating that?  Do you  believe that is what a drag queen is?

 

[sho nuff]

No.  Like most guys, I have my own sexual turn-ons.  I keep them to myself and Mrs. Karamazov, who blessedly puts up with my ####.  I would never think to put any of that stuff front and center for third graders.

Reading while dressed in drag now equals putting their turn ons out in front of kids?

What in the world is going on here?

 

[Manster]

This article speaks to the situation I'm referring to. 

"But in truth, cross-dressing is grounded in a highly logical and universal desire: the wish to be, for a time, the gender one admires, is excited by – and perhaps loves. Dressing like a woman is merely a dramatic, yet essentially reasonable, way of getting closer to the experiences of the sex one is profoundly curious about – and yet has been (somewhat arbitrarily) barred from."

So why do young children need this in their lives?  Adults.....knock yourself out.  

 

[djmich]

This article speaks to the situation I'm referring to. 

"But in truth, cross-dressing is grounded in a highly logical and universal desire: the wish to be, for a time, the gender one admires, is excited by – and perhaps loves. Dressing like a woman is merely a dramatic, yet essentially reasonable, way of getting closer to the experiences of the sex one is profoundly curious about – and yet has been (somewhat arbitrarily) barred from."

Wanting to watch boobies jiggle in front of me is highly logical and a very universal desire.  Watching them is a dramatic, yet reasonable way of appreciating the god given blessings of women, something most people are profoundly curious about…yet unfortunately children are barred from.

 

[sho nuff]

I used skinheads because it’s something the left would question.  

I think any reasonable person would question a hate group doing such things.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Most men who dress up in women's clothing have no interest in having sex with kids.

Men who dress up in women's clothing and invite a bunch of little kids to hang out with them . . . eh, I'm not so sure.

Maybe a good way to put it is, if you were on a sex offender list somehow, would you feel comfortable attending Drag Queen Story Hour, or would you assume that half the people in audience are feds and run the other direction?  This has "honeypot" written all over it.

cool beans - I’m OK with us having completely out of phase opinions here

how many posting in his thread are coming up against this in their schools? not it’s in my state or city or district, but you have direct experience.

my anecdotes are not data. however, two people in this thread - and my GB flop hates engaging in the PSF, so I guess I’m the Lone Ranger today - have junior high kids who have been exposed to drag queens since at least elementary school. in my daughters case, she probably became aware of trans folks around age 4-5, and has known Ruby Rims (building resident & minor celebrity drag queen) since age 2 or 3.

I’ve known Ruby for 14 years. During that time their charity raised enough to supply 10,000 pediatric oncology patients with teddy bears. he’s* been living with HIV for close to 30 years.

*if he’s dressed as a man I call him Paul, when he is dolled up I call her Ruby

it is no big deal. we are teaching our children to be tolerant and accepting of other we lifestyle choices / culture. nobody is cramming it down your throat (in the popular homoerotic lexicon they like to couch these culture dividers.)

I’m an LBGTQA2+ ally. Have been all my life. I’m not the greatest ally bc I’m binary and think that’s our natural state. But that’s my existence. Who am I to judge someone else’s reality? it’s all good.

anyway, just wanted to offer the perspective of someone who actually knows drag queens and has no issue with it being part of their kids childhood. you disagree? Easy peasy. don’t live in New York, pull your kids out of schools you disagree with, or avoid them altogether. pretty simple, eh.

y’all are getting played by fear mongers. politicians & talking heads love trotting out these tired old tropes to play into folks deepest fears.

knock yourself out.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Wait, what?  Who is  advocating that?  Do you  believe that is what a drag queen is?

He mentioned this performer earlier: https://alphanews.org/drag-queen-flashes-crotch-to-children-in-minnetonka-who-will-fight-back/

 

[Captain Cranks]

Wanting to watch boobies jiggle in front of me is highly logical and a very universal desire.  Watching them is a dramatic, yet reasonable way of appreciating the god given blessings of women, something most people are profoundly curious about…yet unfortunately children are barred from.

You're changing things from non-sexual (wearing different clothing) to sexual (boobies).

This is where we disagree. It's not sexual. It's an expression of one's self that makes them happy of which people shouldn't judge. That's the lesson here.

I am with you 100% on the protection from sexual material.  This is not that, imo. 

 

[Captain Cranks]

cool beans - I’m OK with us having completely out of phase opinions here

how many posting in his thread are coming up against this in their schools? not it’s in my state or city or district, but you have direct experience.

my anecdotes are not data. however, two people in this thread - and my GB flop hates engaging in the PSF, so I guess I’m the Lone Ranger today - have junior high kids who have been exposed to drag queens since at least elementary school. in my daughters case, she probably became aware of trans folks around age 4-5, and has known Ruby Rims (building resident & minor celebrity drag queen) since age 2 or 3.

I’ve known Ruby for 14 years. During that time their charity raised enough to supply 10,000 pediatric oncology patients with teddy bears. he’s* been living with HIV for close to 30 years.

*if he’s dressed as a man I call him Paul, when he is dolled up I call her Ruby

it is no big deal. we are teaching our children to be tolerant and accepting of other we lifestyle choices / culture. nobody is cramming it down your throat (in the popular homoerotic lexicon they like to couch these culture dividers.)

I’m an LBGTQA2+ ally. Have been all my life. I’m not the greatest ally bc I’m binary and think that’s our natural state. But that’s my existence. Who am I to judge someone else’s reality? it’s all good.

anyway, just wanted to offer the perspective of someone who actually knows drag queens and has no issue with it being part of their kids childhood. you disagree? Easy peasy. don’t live in New York, pull your kids out of schools you disagree with, or avoid them altogether. pretty simple, eh.

y’all are getting played by fear mongers. politicians & talking heads love trotting out these tired old tropes to play into folks deepest fears.

knock yourself out.

Thank you!

 

[RCon]

Honestly, I don't agree with this.  I don't know if this sort of thing technically qualifies as pedophilia, but it's definitely pedo-adjacent.  I don't have any special objection to consenting adults engaging in this kind of role-play, but putting in front of kids isn't normal and shouldn't be normalized.

Men dressing as women is pedo-adjacent?  Maybe women in classrooms should be forced to dress in Victorian era corsets instead of suits.  Can't have the women dressing like men, either.  The kids might spontaneously turn gay.

 

[sho nuff]

He mentioned this performer earlier: https://alphanews.org/drag-queen-flashes-crotch-to-children-in-minnetonka-who-will-fight-back/

And such a person, like any who would do so should be disciplined and barred from being around children.  Nobody here is advocating for that behavior. 
It also appears vague as the article states he was at least covered by nylons and unclear whether covered by anything else.

So it could be really bad…or less so depending what he had on.

Just proclaiming showing his junk may not be accurate given the story .

 

[parasaurolophus]

He mentioned this performer earlier: https://alphanews.org/drag-queen-flashes-crotch-to-children-in-minnetonka-who-will-fight-back/

And if people want to they can look up Gemini who was the other reader from that day. 

Maybe we can then stop pretending that these drag queens aren't wearing sexualized costumes on the regular. 

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Men dressing as women is pedo-adjacent?  Maybe women in classrooms should be forced to dress in Victorian era corsets instead of suits.  Can't have the women dressing like men, either.  The kids might spontaneously turn gay.

I've explained this a million times already.  Honestly, it's hard not to draw the conclusion that some of you -- you included -- are getting it wrong on purpose.  

Honestly, I don't agree with this.  I don't know if this sort of thing technically qualifies as pedophilia, but it's definitely pedo-adjacent.  I don't have any special objection to consenting adults engaging in this kind of role-play, but putting in front of kids isn't normal and shouldn't be normalized.

It is not the "men dressing as women" part that is pedo-adjacent.  It's the "in front of kids" part that makes it pedo-adjacent.  It's very difficult for me to believe that you don't see the distinction there.

 

[RCon]

I've explained this a million times already.  Honestly, it's hard not to draw the conclusion that some of you -- you included -- are getting it wrong on purpose.  

It is not the "men dressing as women" part that is pedo-adjacent.  It's the "in front of kids" part that makes it pedo-adjacent.  It's very difficult for me to believe that you don't see the distinction there.

This seems beyond bat#### crazy to me.  A man wearing a dress in front of kids is not pedo-adjacent, no matter how much the Christian right want to return to the 50s.  A woman wearing a suit is not pedo-adjacent, whether it's in front of kids or not.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Men dressing as women is pedo-adjacent?  Maybe women in classrooms should be forced to dress in Victorian era corsets instead of suits.  Can't have the women dressing like men, either.  The kids might spontaneously turn gay.

I mean, I know you converted from the Red Tribe to the Blue Tribe, and converts always have to be a little more evangelical than the most evangelical native, just to prove their loyalty to their new tribe.

But do you really feel happy about being forced to support stuff like this?  Most conventional liberals would at least see this kind of project as counterproductive at best and retrograde at worst.  (I mean, seriously, we're using drag queens as stand-ins for they gay community now?  That was homophobic just a few minutes ago.)  Doesn't this trigger a "is this really what I stand for now?" feeling somewhere?

 

[FairWarning]

I think any reasonable person would question a hate group doing such things.

Just like reasonable people would question the use of drag queens.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

This seems beyond bat#### crazy to me.  A man wearing a dress in front of kids is not pedo-adjacent, no matter how much the Christian right want to return to the 50s.  A woman wearing a suit is not pedo-adjacent, whether it's in front of kids or not.

 at the idea that not wanting drag queens in schools is just like wanting to return to Leave It To Beaver.  The cliched thinking is off the charts here.

 

[sho nuff]

And if people want to they can look up Gemini who was the other reader from that day. 

Maybe we can then stop pretending that these drag queens aren't wearing sexualized costumes on the regular. 

Guy was wearing a skirt and at least nylons and maybe something else.  I would agree inappropriate if not wearing anything else for sure and likely inappropriate if he would not cross his legs as I would expect from a woman in a similar situation.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

The next time I see a woman wearing a suit, I'll tell her that Rich Conway from the internet thinks that that's sort of like wearing drag.  I'll report back on the results.

 

[parasaurolophus]

I've explained this a million times already.  Honestly, it's hard not to draw the conclusion that some of you -- you included -- are getting it wrong on purpose.  

It is not the "men dressing as women" part that is pedo-adjacent.  It's the "in front of kids" part that makes it pedo-adjacent.  It's very difficult for me to believe that you don't see the distinction there.

Of course it is on purpose. I mean look at the  it is cool if strippers come in and read as long as they are dressed normal responses before. 

 

[RCon]

I mean, I know you converted from the Red Tribe to the Blue Tribe, and converts always have to be a little more evangelical than the most evangelical native, just to prove their loyalty to their new tribe.

But do you really feel happy about being forced to support stuff like this?  Most conventional liberals would at least see this kind of project as counterproductive at best and retrograde at worst.  (I mean, seriously, we're using drag queens as stand-ins for they gay community now?  That was homophobic just a few minutes ago.)  Doesn't this trigger a "is this really what I stand for now?" feeling somewhere?

I really don't understand why anyone would think that cross-dressing is sexual deviancy or pedophilia-adjacent.  It's nuts, really.  My kids own plenty of clothes that I couldn't even tell you whether they were originally designed for a boy or a girl.  Who cares?  Why?  It's truly baffling that we have to put people in little boxes and get all bent out of shape when they don't want to stay in their assigned boxes.

 

[djmich]

Nope drag queens not sexualized at all, indistinguishable from something you’d see a librarian or Hillary Clinton wear.

 

[RCon]

The next time I see a woman wearing a suit, I'll tell her that Rich Conway from the internet thinks that that's sort of like wearing drag.  I'll report back on the results.

You're the one that said men wearing "women's clothes" (in front of children) is pedo-adjacent.  My point is that it wasn't so long ago that suits were seen as "men's clothes".  Plenty of Scottish men wear kilts.  Are they all pedophiles?  Samurai robes; pedophiles?  I can't believe this is even a conversation.

 

[sho nuff]

Just like reasonable people would question the use of drag queens.

I don’t believe so.  Because I dont find much of the arguments being made or comparisons here to be very reasonable.

Question it?  Sure…even may not want your kid invol?  Sure.  Reasonable.

Arguments about skinheads, pedophilia, bondage…no, those have not been reasonable at all IMO.

 

[dozer]

And if people want to they can look up Gemini who was the other reader from that day. 

Maybe we can then stop pretending that these drag queens aren't wearing sexualized costumes on the regular. 

In light of this new information, I am rescinding my advocacy for Priests engaging in reading stories to children at school, or anywhere else.

As far as I know, There are MANY more pedo-priests than pedo-drag queens.

 

[sho nuff]

Of course it is on purpose. I mean look at the  it is cool if strippers come in and read as long as they are dressed normal responses before. 

Why wouldn’t it be ok of a woman who strips is dressed appropriately and reads a story to kids?

 

[BladeRunner]

Nope drag queens not sexualized at all, indistinguishable from something you’d see a librarian or Hillary Clinton wear.

Or, apparently, like Scottish men as @Rich Conway says. 

No difference at all. None whatsoever.

 

[FairWarning]

This seems beyond bat#### crazy to me.  A man wearing a dress in front of kids is not pedo-adjacent, no matter how much the Christian right want to return to the 50s.  A woman wearing a suit is not pedo-adjacent, whether it's in front of kids or not.

It’s not normal either.  I can’t think of the last time I saw a man wearing a dress outside of Halloween.

 

[steeler6]

In light of this new information, I am rescinding my advocacy for Priests engaging in reading stories to children at school, or anywhere else.

As far as I know, There are MANY more pedo-priests than pedo-drag queens.

How about we keep both away from kids. 

 

[KarmaPolice]

I was out to dinner with my wife a couple years ago and the bartender was a man in drag. Wig, makeup, nails painted, Adam's apple.  It was shocking. But it made me realize that the thing that's shocking wasn't how he looked, but that it wasn't something I normally saw. There was nothing wrong with it, he wasn't hurting anyone, and hopefully looking that way makes him happy. If that's a message parents are scared to have presented to their kids, then to each their own (which gets back to my earlier point about being able to opt out). 

Going back to my post, I am mostly with you here.  For me what makes it different is: the age of the kids and what they are reading/doing.  I THINK there would be less complaints if it was a parent of one of the kids, and for whatever reason dressed as a woman the whole time coming in for story hour.    But drag queens are a performance/job for the most part and what they are reading and doing are ready in the crosshairs with parents around the country (again, not overly familiar with the books, but there was a blurb in there about having the kids do their pronouns and things like that).  Just seems a bit much. 

 

[BladeRunner]

How about we keep both away from kids. 

They try so hard.  As if "OMG!!! PRIESTS!!" should completely trump and ignore all other bad behavior.

 

[cockroach]

Further obscuring the gender lines.  Further confusing children.  Seriously, how does this seem like a good idea?  Might as well have adults who are "furries" read to em next.....hell, the kids are already doing all this anyway.  I didn't even know what a furry was until my daughter told me she had a couple of em in class.....gotta be some proud parents right there.

It's called Sesame St.  

 

[FreeBaGeL]

We are at a point in politics where the left is scared to question anything done in the name of progressivism. Question it and you are shredded by the same party you belong to.

Interesting conclusion to draw in a thread where at least half if not a majority of liberals in here disagree with what NYC is doing. And I've yet to see any of us get jumped on by the other left leaning folks here. 

I get what you're saying nationally with the vocal ultra progressives who lash out at democrats who aren't willing to share their extreme takes but I don't think this is any different than the MAGA crowd lashing out at traditional conservatives who won't buy into their Maga ideology and cheating on elections and whatnot. 

If anything this seems even more prevalent with the Maga crowd who will turn not only on random Facebook posters but even their previously popular politicians. 

 

[sho nuff]

They try so hard.  As if "OMG!!! PRIESTS!!" should completely trump and ignore all other bad behavior.

What bad behavior?  We aren’t the ones acting as if Drag Queen = Pedo.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Why wouldn’t it be ok of a woman who strips is dressed appropriately and reads a story to kids?

Nobody said it wasn't ok for strippers to read to kids in their "street clothes". 

 

[Alex P Keaton]

cool beans - I’m OK with us having completely out of phase opinions here

how many posting in his thread are coming up against this in their schools? not it’s in my state or city or district, but you have direct experience.

my anecdotes are not data. however, two people in this thread - and my GB flop hates engaging in the PSF, so I guess I’m the Lone Ranger today - have junior high kids who have been exposed to drag queens since at least elementary school. in my daughters case, she probably became aware of trans folks around age 4-5, and has known Ruby Rims (building resident & minor celebrity drag queen) since age 2 or 3.

I’ve known Ruby for 14 years. During that time their charity raised enough to supply 10,000 pediatric oncology patients with teddy bears. he’s* been living with HIV for close to 30 years.

*if he’s dressed as a man I call him Paul, when he is dolled up I call her Ruby

it is no big deal. we are teaching our children to be tolerant and accepting of other we lifestyle choices / culture. nobody is cramming it down your throat (in the popular homoerotic lexicon they like to couch these culture dividers.)

I’m an LBGTQA2+ ally. Have been all my life. I’m not the greatest ally bc I’m binary and think that’s our natural state. But that’s my existence. Who am I to judge someone else’s reality? it’s all good.

anyway, just wanted to offer the perspective of someone who actually knows drag queens and has no issue with it being part of their kids childhood. you disagree? Easy peasy. don’t live in New York, pull your kids out of schools you disagree with, or avoid them altogether. pretty simple, eh.

y’all are getting played by fear mongers. politicians & talking heads love trotting out these tired old tropes to play into folks deepest fears.

knock yourself out.

Phenomenal post

 

[djmich]

What bad behavior?  We aren’t the ones acting as if Drag Queen = Pedo.

You keep making the same association despite Ivan repeatedly explaining to you that he hasn’t and is not calling drag queens pedos.  Very bad faith posting

Ron Jeremy is not a pedo.  Ron Jeremy reading to children, in costume, is pedo adjacent (meaning delivering to children sexually suggestive content)

 

[BladeRunner]

What bad behavior?  We aren’t the ones acting as if Drag Queen = Pedo.

Okay, Sho "Bad Faith" nuff. 

You should probably stop misrepresenting people's posts.

-10 Reputation Points for you!!

 

[sho nuff]

Nobody said it wasn't ok for strippers to read to kids in their "street clothes". 

So your problem with  “it is cool if strippers come in and read as long as they are dressed normal” is what?

 

[Uwe Blab]

I feel like everyone is talking past each other in this thread:

1) Some people see drag queens as burlesque show type performers which are highly sexualized. I admittedly think of it from this perspective being in the Midwest

2) Some see it simply as another culture. Kinda silly, kinda camp…innocent fun. NYC, New Orleans, SF probably see this more likely.

 Based on which perspective you feel makes a huge difference.

FTR, I wouldn’t be too keen in my kids school but I’m not around many drag queens in my life and have always thought the former. I also think stuff is a cynical ploy by cultural warriors to shock middle America

 

[Alex P Keaton]

They try so hard.  As if "OMG!!! PRIESTS!!" should completely trump and ignore all other bad behavior.

For Pete’s sake, please don’t bring trump into this too.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Nobody said it wasn't ok for strippers to read to kids in their "street clothes". 

Thank god.  I would volunteer way more often at my kids’ school if strippers showed up to read to the kids.

 

[sho nuff]

You keep making the same association despite Ivan repeatedly explaining to you that he hasn’t and is not calling drag queens pedos.  Very bad faith posting

Ron Jeremy is not a pedo.  Ron Jeremy reading to children, in costume, is pedo adjacent (meaning delivering to children sexually suggestive content)

No…but pedo adjacent.  Sorry if I don’t put adjacent after each post.   As if dressing in drag to read stories makes it sexual.  That isn’t bad faith posting at all.

Dressing in drag does not make it sexually suggestive is the point.  I would agree being sexually suggestive would be inappropriate for sure.

 

[Philo Beddoe]

Interesting conclusion to draw in a thread where at least half if not a majority of liberals in here disagree with what NYC is doing. And I've yet to see any of us get jumped on by the other left leaning folks here. 

I get what you're saying nationally with the vocal ultra progressives who lash out at democrats who aren't willing to share their extreme takes but I don't think this is any different than the MAGA crowd lashing out at traditional conservatives who won't buy into their Maga ideology and cheating on elections and whatnot. 

If anything this seems even more prevalent with the Maga crowd who will turn not only on random Facebook posters but even their previously popular politicians. 

I saw a lot of compromise from the right in the gun control thread. Present company included. 

 

[BladeRunner]

For Pete’s sake, please don’t bring trump into this too.

I need help. 

Is there a 12 step Trump Anonymous program I can attend?