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NY Times - what the heck? (1 Viewer)

I’m seeing a different article where the Times says he was beaten to death. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/08/us/politics/police-officer-killed-capitol.html
That was five weeks ago, and was reporting from the immediate aftermath of a major violent event — when little is known conclusively about what happened. Nevertheless, even the early findings and suppositions of the investigators is worth reporting to the public. Even if findings and conclusions change later, which is common and unalarming.

 
Think about this. The narrative had to be that the protesters were equally (more) violent.  It's a pretty key point in how Jan 6th would be portrayed. Doesnt matter we find out weeks later it was all fabricated. 
What was fabricated?  The guy is dead, along with a handful of other people, and 100s more injured.  Of course it was violent.  Did you watch it?  

 
His death could have been from covid for all we know at this point.
This is where you start conflating two different issues.

Originally, you took issue with how the story was reported by the press. OK.

But now you are questioning official police statements, which is a separate issue. Or do you think there's some sort of police-press conspiracy at play here?

 
First i heard if it.  So these 5 death that the media keeps endlessly harping on:

- Police officer of unknown causes

- An unarmed protestor shot by police

- A protester by heart attack

- A protestor by stroke

- A protestor crushed in the crowd

So the media keeps misrepresenting the truth and even lied and does not care to correct.  We know for certain if this was a BLM protest the ONLY death we would be hearing about is #2.   The hypocripsy and lies are freaking sickening.  
This is absurd, but I think hearing how the media is overhyping the US Capitol falling 1 month afterward from Mr Benghazi himself makes this perhaps the richest post in FFA history.  

 
BTW, this is the NYT’s update. The investigation is ongoing and further changes in the account of Sicknick’s death are virtually certain.
That is not a good update and doesn’t do a good job of clearing things up.  It says “One Capitol Police officer, Brian D. Sicknick, was killed, and investigators are increasingly focused on whether chemical irritants were a factor in his death, according to a senior law enforcement official. The Capitol Police said in a statement that Officer Sicknick died from injuries sustained “while physically engaging with protesters.”

Within that article and the words I quoted it links back to the Jan. 8th article where the Times once again says ”The circumstances surrounding Mr. Sicknick's death were not immediately clear, and the Capitol Police said only that he had “passed away due to injuries sustained while on duty.  At some point in the chaos — with the mob rampaging through the halls of Congress while lawmakers were forced to hide under their desks — he was struck with a fire extinguisher, according to two law enforcement officials.” Why do they continue to refer back to the story that he was beaten to death when it has been factually confirmed that he wasn’t beaten?  Nowhere in any of their reporting do they acknowledge that he wasn’t beaten to death. Isn’t the whole point of the Times to report the truth? Especially after they got a very important fact wrong?

Also, if you read the original article in my first post the whole premises from the start was way flawed by the Times. If they had done secondary sourcing or even listened to his bother’s account they would have seen that there really was never any evidence of a beating.  There was way more evidence that there wasn’t a beating. Yet the Times ran with that false story and continues to link to it today.  It really calls into question their professionalism don’t you think?

 
First i heard if it.  So these 5 death that the media keeps endlessly harping on:

- Police officer of unknown causes

- An unarmed protestor shot by police

- A protester by heart attack

- A protestor by stroke

- A protestor crushed in the crowd

So the media keeps misrepresenting the truth and even lied and does not care to correct.  We know for certain if this was a BLM protest the ONLY death we would be hearing about is #2.   The hypocripsy and lies are freaking sickening.  
Imagine if Minneapolis police had not evacuated the 3rd precinct (the one that burned down) and instead there were two dozen of them barricaded inside. Now imagine a hundred protestors had gotten inside the precinct and were smashing the windows and doors with shovels trying to get access to where the officers were. If one of them got shot trying to crawl through a smashed window as the two dozen were radioing for backup because they were overrun...well, you are nuts if you think the lead story would be about the unarmed protestor

 
This is where you start conflating two different issues.

Originally, you took issue with how the story was reported by the press. OK.

But now you are questioning official police statements, which is a separate issue. Or do you think there's some sort of police-press conspiracy at play here?
The official Capitol Police statement - from day 1 - only said that Officer Brian D. Sicknick died Thursday night "due to injuries sustained while on-duty," 

 
BTW, this is the NYT’s update. The investigation is ongoing and further changes in the account of Sicknick’s death are virtually certain.
That is not a good update and doesn’t do a good job of clearing things up.  It says “One Capitol Police officer, Brian D. Sicknick, was killed, and investigators are increasingly focused on whether chemical irritants were a factor in his death, according to a senior law enforcement official. The Capitol Police said in a statement that Officer Sicknick died from injuries sustained “while physically engaging with protesters.”

Within that article and the words I quoted it links back to the Jan. 8th article where the Times once again says ”The circumstances surrounding Mr. Sicknick's death were not immediately clear, and the Capitol Police said only that he had “passed away due to injuries sustained while on duty.  At some point in the chaos — with the mob rampaging through the halls of Congress while lawmakers were forced to hide under their desks — he was struck with a fire extinguisher, according to two law enforcement officials.” Why do they continue to refer back to the story that he was beaten to death when it has been factually confirmed that he wasn’t beaten?  Nowhere in any of their reporting do they acknowledge that he wasn’t beaten to death. Isn’t the whole point of the Times to report the truth? Especially after they got a very important fact wrong?
First, you shouldn't keep using the phrase "beaten to death" when it's not in the NY Times articles.

Second, it is false to claim "it has been factually confirmed that he wasn’t beaten". At this point, all we know is that he didn't have blunt force trauma. But that doesn't mean he wasn't beaten.

At best, your language here is inaccurate. I'd describe it as irresponsible but since you're a brand new user and definitely not an alias, I'll hold back on that call.

 
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Imagine if Minneapolis police had not evacuated the 3rd precinct (the one that burned down) and instead there were two dozen of them barricaded inside. Now imagine a hundred protestors had gotten inside the precinct and were smashing the windows and doors with shovels trying to get access to where the officers were. If one of them got shot trying to crawl through a smashed window as the two dozen were radioing for backup because they were overrun...well, you are nuts if you think the lead story would be about the unarmed protestor
Kyle Rittenhouse? Dude killed an unarmed protester and he’s been in prison for months.

 
Second, it is false to claim "it has been factually confirmed that he wasn’t beaten". At this point, all we know is that he didn't have blunt force trauma. But that doesn't mean he wasn't beaten.
Very fine hair I'll split here: At this point, all we know is that:

Medical experts have said he did not die of blunt force trauma, according to one law enforcement official.
Not dying of blunt force trauma doesn't preclude having sustained blunt force trauma.

 
Yes they did -- see my last post on page 1.
Yes you are correct and I am wrong. I missed it at the end of the article. They do do a good job of explaining things. Colossal waste of time in my part. 😆 sorry folks.
Read one post up :shrug:   I quoted the relevant sentence -- the article acknowledged:

Medical experts have said he did not die of blunt force trauma, according to one law enforcement official.
I can't help that it's not yet an investigatory hammerlock -- this stuff can't always be sussed out quickly. And for a scene this chaotic, new info and contradictions of previous info will be rolling out for months. Years down the road, there will likely be investigatory volumes written about the Capitol insurrection that will disagree with each other in the details ... not too different from, say, writings about Civil War battles or the JFK assassination.

 
An ... anonymous source ... told the New York Times that Sicknick did not die of blunt force trauma, not that he suffered none. I’d be interested to learn what you heard or read different.
You could read the CNN article I quoted and linked to above........
Thank you for pointing that out. CNN's details differ a bit from those of the New York Times, then. We'll stay tuned and see if investigators can reach a supported conclusion, which is not yet guaranteed.

 
This is where you start conflating two different issues.

Originally, you took issue with how the story was reported by the press. OK.

But now you are questioning official police statements, which is a separate issue. Or do you think there's some sort of police-press conspiracy at play here?
Oh look it is the NYT 2nd biggest defender.

 
Thank you for pointing that out. CNN's details differ a bit from those of the New York Times, then. We'll stay tuned and see if investigators can reach a supported conclusion, which is not yet guaranteed.
Which is exactly why I pointed out that we dont know how he died yet. And not just investigators, the ME as well.

 
This is where you start conflating two different issues.

Originally, you took issue with how the story was reported by the press. OK.

But now you are questioning official police statements, which is a separate issue. Or do you think there's some sort of police-press conspiracy at play here?
Oh look it is the NYT 2nd biggest defender.
:mellow:

Come on, man. I'm engaging in good faith here. There's no need to deflect.

I think it's fair to criticize how the media (including the Times) handled the sourcing.

But when you use that issue to question the official police statements, then you're changing the point of the entire discussion. So what's your beef? Is it with the Times, or with the police? Or both? If so, do you think a conspiracy is involved?

 
Thank you for pointing that out. CNN's details differ a bit from those of the New York Times, then. We'll stay tuned and see if investigators can reach a supported conclusion, which is not yet guaranteed.
Which is exactly why I pointed out that we dont know how he died yet. And not just investigators, the ME as well.
But you didn't just do that. You said he could have died from COVID. Which directly contradicts the official police statement.

 
First i heard if it.  So these 5 death that the media keeps endlessly harping on:

- Police officer of unknown causes

- An unarmed protestor shot by police

- A protester by heart attack

- A protestor by stroke

- A protestor crushed in the crowd

So the media keeps misrepresenting the truth and even lied and does not care to correct.  We know for certain if this was a BLM protest the ONLY death we would be hearing about is #2.   The hypocripsy and lies are freaking sickening.  
What is sickening is anyone giving a pass to armed domestic terrorists attacking the capitol with the intent to maim and or kill police and lawmakers, including hanging the Vice President of the United States, all in the name of supporting the fragile ego of one man who can't come to terms that he lost in a landslide and instead has been fear and hate mongering for weeks, whipping this crowd of true believers into a frenzy of blood lust. Unbelievable.

 
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Kyle Rittenhouse? Dude killed an unarmed protester and he’s been in prison for months.
Rittenhouse is not in prison.  not even in county jail.  He posted bail and is awaiting trial.

 
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This is absurd, but I think hearing how the media is overhyping the US Capitol falling 1 month afterward from Mr Benghazi himself makes this perhaps the richest post in FFA history.  
I never made a single post about Benghazi.  I never paid attention or even really know the dtails of what it was about.   But nice distraction and lie.  Still no explaination of why it was absurd just 100 percent trolling. 

 
What is sickening is anyone giving a pass to armed domestic terrorists attacking the capitol with the intent to maim and or kill police and lawmakers, including hanging the Vice President of the United States, all in the name of supporting the fragile ego of one man who can't come to terms that he lost in a landslide and instead has been fear and hate mongering for weeks, whipping this crowd of true believers into a frenzy of blood lust. Unbelievable.
1.  What armed terrorists are you talking about?  There were zero shots fired by the so-called insurgents and as far as i know no one inside was charged with possession of a gun, but there probably were a couple who carried.  Several charged who were outside and one pyschpath a mile or so away with an assorrment of weapons.  But your characterization is false, the so-called insurgents were not brandishing or using guns in any way as your rhetoric clearly implies.

2.  The Justice Department stated they had no direct evidence of any plot or attempt to kill lawmakers.  Those who assaulted and injuried police deserve significant prison time, but that is not representative of the entire group and no different than what went on all summer at 'peaceful' BLM rallies.

So your entire post is total crap influenced by numerous media lies.   Certainly there were displays of anger and hate and a handful of pyschopaths who were there to make trouble.  But to characterize what went on over the summer as mostly peaceful protests while this one as an armed domestic terrorist attack, is such inconsistant rhetoric which i can only evaluate as outright dishonesty stemming from an extreme bias and unwillness to show any objective reasoning.  

 
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Imagine if Minneapolis police had not evacuated the 3rd precinct (the one that burned down) and instead there were two dozen of them barricaded inside. Now imagine a hundred protestors had gotten inside the precinct and were smashing the windows and doors with shovels trying to get access to where the officers were. If one of them got shot trying to crawl through a smashed window as the two dozen were radioing for backup because they were overrun...well, you are nuts if you think the lead story would be about the unarmed protestor
I am 100 percent certain the lead story would be that an unarmed black protester was shot by a white police officer and the medua would endlessly discuss how the protester would not have been shot if he was white.   That is the only angle the woke media cares about.  It is all about being a hero for so-called social justice.

 
This is absurd, but I think hearing how the media is overhyping the US Capitol falling 1 month afterward from Mr Benghazi himself makes this perhaps the richest post in FFA history.  
I've seen a bunch of your posts on an array of subjects in this forum.  You should probably sit this one out if your going to make claims about other posters being absurd.  Maybe do some reflection and come back a better poster.  :thumbup:

 
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Oh..I guess it is OK then to broadcast it numerous times.  My mistake.

Just looked up his title.  Cuomoa is a "presenter and analysis of the news" for CNN.
He’s not a journalist. I don’t think he deliberately got it wrong. He’s relatively fair, IMO, for an opinion guy. But that’s what he is. 

 
Chris Cuomo has stated multible times that Sicknick was "bludgeoned to death" with a fire extinguisher. How could he report that, then double down a number of times knowing it might not be true?
An opinion guy went with the initial reporting.  And Im no fan of Cuomo (or his brother).

 
He’s not a journalist. I don’t think he deliberately got it wrong. He’s relatively fair, IMO, for an opinion guy. But that’s what he is. 
I agree.  The problem is CNN, FOX and all cable news are so anxious to run stories that will fire up their base audience that many times they are not properly vetted. In his bio it states Coumo is a television "journalist"   

 
The NY Times lost their way a long time ago in terms of true journalism. The Times pander to a base audience not the masses, much like the cable news stations.

It is getting more and more difficult to find just the actual news anymore.  

 
tommyGunZ said:
What was fabricated?  The guy is dead, along with a handful of other people, and 100s more injured.  Of course it was violent.  Did you watch it?  
What other people?  The unarmed girl the police shot?  The heart attack victim and stroke victim who wasn't even inside?  The headlines of 5 deaths was always and still is intentionally misleading.  

 
timschochet said:
He’s not a journalist. I don’t think he deliberately got it wrong. He’s relatively fair, IMO, for an opinion guy. But that’s what he is. 
He is a complete hack.  One of the worst.  He is about as fair as Hannity. 

 
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What other people?  The unarmed girl the police shot?  The heart attack victim and stroke victim who wasn't even inside?  The headlines of 5 deaths was always and still is intentionally misleading.  
It's very misleading of you to use the word "girl" to describe a 35-year-old woman. If you're truly confident in your talking point, then you shouldn't need to mischaracterize the facts.

In any case, she was advancing towards a police officer who feared for his life. Doesn't matter if she had a gun or not -- the officer had to stop the threat by any means necessary. The shooting was 100% justified.

 
It's very misleading of you to use the word "girl" to describe a 35-year-old woman. If you're truly confident in your talking point, then you shouldn't need to mischaracterize the facts.

In any case, she was advancing towards a police officer who feared for his life. Doesn't matter if she had a gun or not -- the officer had to stop the threat by any means necessary. The shooting was 100% justified.
all of what you said here is a complete fabrication and/or exaggeration.  First off, "girl", "woman", who cares?  You're doing it simply because you're trying to distract from the point.  Fail.

Secondly, she was not "advancing".  She was climbing thru a broken window.  anyone watching the video knows that.  She wasn't "advancing" like an army on the western front.  Give me a break.

So when you talk about "misleading", it's not jon that's doing it, it's you.  Good work.

 
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all of what you said here is a complete fabrication and/or exaggeration.  First off, "girl", "woman", who cares?  You're doing it simply because you're trying to distract from the point.  Fail.

Secondly, she was not "advancing".  She was climbing thru a broken window.  anyone watching the video knows that.  She wasn't "advancing" like an army on the western front.

So when you talk about "misleading", it's not jon that's doing it, it's you.  Good work.
Describing a 35-year-old as a "girl" is not just misleading, but it's a deliberate attempt to minimize their culpability. It's also sexist (we wouldn't stand for using the word "boy" to describe a 35-year-old male business owner and veteran) and paternalistic.

And, yes, climbing through a window is advancing. If you think the cop should have waited for her to get through the window so that he could verify if she was about to kill him, then you can join the libs in the anti-cop threads. I won't be joining you.

The erosion of the pro-police narrative has been one of the worst byproducts of the Trump era. Conservatives are pushing anti-cop propaganda without even blinking an eye.

 
all of what you said here is a complete fabrication and/or exaggeration.  First off, "girl", "woman", who cares?  You're doing it simply because you're trying to distract from the point.  Fail.

Secondly, she was not "advancing".  She was climbing thru a broken window.  anyone watching the video knows that.  She wasn't "advancing" like an army on the western front.  Give me a break.

So when you talk about "misleading", it's not jon that's doing it, it's you.  Good work.
Talk about misleading

Yes, she was at the forefront of the mob and was leading the crowd to break into the house chamber - no one had attempted to go through the window before her. Who knows how many legislators and others would have been killed if she hadn't been stopped and the rest of the insurrectionists had followed her in,

 
Summer Wheat said:
I agree.  The problem is CNN, FOX and all cable news are so anxious to run stories that will fire up their base audience that many times they are not properly vetted. In his bio it states Coumo is a television "journalist"   
We need to cut the crap and label CNN as GUILTY.  Enough of the opinion writer BS.  If you watch his show it doesn't say OPINION at the top, it says CNN NEWs complete with "Breaking News Alert" tickers scrolling at the bottom, the whole 9 yards.  People turn into CNN to watch the news, not Oprah.  People turn it on, suck it down and take everything he says as fact.  Just look around the PSF the last 4 years.  

 

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