Yeah - you would really have to take Beckerman out of the middle to keep any semblance of defensive shape, and tell him he goes where Ronaldo goes, and he should be thinking elephant walk the entire game.
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***Official 2014 World Cup Thread*** (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter NewlyRetired
- Start date
jonessed
Footballguy
United has used Park and Welbeck to mark players like Xavi and Pirlo in the past.That makes more sense than using a DM now that I think about it. It keeps the defensive shape intact.
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NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Diego Costa was another big name coming into the tournament. He was born in Brazil but plays for Spain.It's not unique to the US either. There are plenty of players that could play for more than one country.Some examples from Germany:Miroslav Klose - born in Poland and moved to Germany when he was 8.Lukas Podolski - born in Poland and moved to Germany when he was 2.Jerome Boateng - born in Germany, but his father is from Ghana. His half brother plays for Ghana.It is a confusing system for both old and new fans. Then you look at two players who could have made the team this year like Diego Fagundez and Darlington Nagbe, who are both as American as one can possibly be and yet they can't play for the US because of various citizenship laws.Jermaine Jones, John Brooks, Fabian Johnson, and Tim Chandler are all born-and-bred Germans. Mix Diskerud is born-and-bred Norwegian. Julian Green and Aron Johansson were both born in the US but raised elsewhere (Green in Germany; Johansson in Iceland).
I am disappointed when articles or announcers point out the US is using dual nationals and then leave out that it happens in other countries as well.
B Maverick
Footballguy
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
So it's not like the Olympics? What is the determining factor of what team you can play for? Is it different for each country or is it a FIFA rule?It's not unique to the US either. There are plenty of players that could play for more than one country.Some examples from Germany:It is a confusing system for both old and new fans.Jermaine Jones, John Brooks, Fabian Johnson, and Tim Chandler are all born-and-bred Germans. Mix Diskerud is born-and-bred Norwegian.Julian Green and Aron Johansson were both born in the US but raised elsewhere (Green in Germany; Johansson in Iceland).
Then you look at two players who could have made the team this year like Diego Fagundez and Darlington Nagbe, who are both as American as one can possibly be and yet they can't play for the US because of various citizenship laws.
Miroslav Klose - born in Poland and moved to Germany when he was 8.
Lukas Podolski - born in Poland and moved to Germany when he was 2.
Jerome Boateng - born in Germany, but his father is from Ghana. His half brother plays for Ghana.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
El Floppo
Footballguy
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I know what I was asking
I was asking specifically about sacrificing an offensive player entirely to do nothing but man mark the entire game. I don't see any possibility of the US sacrificing Bradley this way but maybe I am way off base here.
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El Floppo
Footballguy
wait... tell Beckerman to go where Ronaldo goes? Who pays for the golf cart he'd be driving to keep up with CRO?
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
You have to be a citizen of the country. Every country has different citizenship rules.So it's not like the Olympics? What is the determining factor of what team you can play for? Is it different for each country or is it a FIFA rule?It's not unique to the US either. There are plenty of players that could play for more than one country.Some examples from Germany:It is a confusing system for both old and new fans.Jermaine Jones, John Brooks, Fabian Johnson, and Tim Chandler are all born-and-bred Germans. Mix Diskerud is born-and-bred Norwegian.Julian Green and Aron Johansson were both born in the US but raised elsewhere (Green in Germany; Johansson in Iceland).
Then you look at two players who could have made the team this year like Diego Fagundez and Darlington Nagbe, who are both as American as one can possibly be and yet they can't play for the US because of various citizenship laws.
Miroslav Klose - born in Poland and moved to Germany when he was 8.
Lukas Podolski - born in Poland and moved to Germany when he was 2.
Jerome Boateng - born in Germany, but his father is from Ghana. His half brother plays for Ghana.
The US has players who lived here almost their entire life but can't represent the US and also has players who never stepped foot in the US playing for them because they were born US citizens.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
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El Floppo
Footballguy
So it's not like the Olympics? What is the determining factor of what team you can play for? Is it different for each country or is it a FIFA rule?It's not unique to the US either. There are plenty of players that could play for more than one country.Some examples from Germany:It is a confusing system for both old and new fans.Jermaine Jones, John Brooks, Fabian Johnson, and Tim Chandler are all born-and-bred Germans. Mix Diskerud is born-and-bred Norwegian.Julian Green and Aron Johansson were both born in the US but raised elsewhere (Green in Germany; Johansson in Iceland).
Then you look at two players who could have made the team this year like Diego Fagundez and Darlington Nagbe, who are both as American as one can possibly be and yet they can't play for the US because of various citizenship laws.
Miroslav Klose - born in Poland and moved to Germany when he was 8.
Lukas Podolski - born in Poland and moved to Germany when he was 2.
Jerome Boateng - born in Germany, but his father is from Ghana. His half brother plays for Ghana.
I have no idea... but I think rules of citizenship- in regards to eligibility- are different for each country.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
The best thing is that no one is even looking at him. He's just having a good time in Johannssonville.
El Floppo
Footballguy
An error occurredYou have reached your quota of positive votes for the dayUnless someone graphs Yedlins legs onto Beckerman, that is a recipe for a disaster
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Really looking forward to the Italy/CR game here. Not looking for a specific result, just hoping for a great match.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Italy is my second favorite team but would be just as happy to see CONCACAF continue its good play. I can't lose today unless the game sucks.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
FIFA rule...per WIki:
In the 20th century, FIFA allowed a player to represent any national team, as long as the player held citizenship of that country. In 2004, in reaction to the growing trend towards naturalisation of foreign players in some countries, FIFA implemented a significant new ruling that requires a player to demonstrate a "clear connection" to any country they wish to represent. FIFA has used its authority to overturn results of competitive international matches that feature ineligible players. [. . .] An emergency FIFA committee ruling judged that players must be able to demonstrate a "clear connection" to a country that they had not been born in but wished to represent. This ruling explicitly stated that, in such scenarios, the player must have at least one parent or grandparent who was born in that country, or the player must have been resident in that country for at least two years
[. . .]
The relevant current FIFA statute, Article 17: Acquisition of a new nationality, states:[18]
Any Player who ... [assumes] a new nationality and who has not played international football [in a match ... in an official competition of any category or any type of football for one Association] shall be eligible to play for the new representative team only if he fulfills one of the following conditions:
(a) He was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
(b) His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
© His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
(d) He has lived continuously for at least five years after reaching the age of 18 on the territory of the relevant Association.
B Maverick
Footballguy
I should hope so!I know what I was asking
I dont see the us doing it, esp with Ronaldo whos pace and license to go everywhere would confuse the hell out of the US defensively.
The US needs to vocally pass players off and make sure they stay very disciplined as CR moves around the field. Almost a zone/man set up. As he moves a player stays with him until he goes into another area then he gets passed to the next guy who marks until he moves on.... Obvious and standard I know but they have to be on top of their game for this....
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Spartans Rule
Footballguy
There was a really nasty instance of this last World Cup. The ever-brittle Arjen Robben played through an injury he really shouldn't have for Holland, then missed a couple months for Bayern Munich.
Bayern was pissed and demanded that Holland compensate them. In the end they agreed to play a friendly together.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
I just think that's a false distinction. Presumably every player has a responsibility with the ball and without the ball. I don't think you need to sacrifice offense in order to have an advanced midfielder mark a deep-lying playmaker out of the game. You do have to sacrifice defensive shape in the middle of the field, particularly if the play-maker is clever enough to just move out to the flank the way Pirlo does when he's man-marked.You have to be a citizen of the country. Every country has different citizenship rules.So it's not like the Olympics? What is the determining factor of what team you can play for? Is it different for each country or is it a FIFA rule?It's not unique to the US either. There are plenty of players that could play for more than one country.Some examples from Germany:It is a confusing system for both old and new fans.Jermaine Jones, John Brooks, Fabian Johnson, and Tim Chandler are all born-and-bred Germans. Mix Diskerud is born-and-bred Norwegian.Julian Green and Aron Johansson were both born in the US but raised elsewhere (Green in Germany; Johansson in Iceland).
Then you look at two players who could have made the team this year like Diego Fagundez and Darlington Nagbe, who are both as American as one can possibly be and yet they can't play for the US because of various citizenship laws.
Miroslav Klose - born in Poland and moved to Germany when he was 8.
Lukas Podolski - born in Poland and moved to Germany when he was 2.
Jerome Boateng - born in Germany, but his father is from Ghana. His half brother plays for Ghana.
The US has players who lived here almost their entire life but can't represent the US and also has players who never stepped foot in the US playing for them because they were born US citizens.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
Checking out for the day to avoid spoilers. See you fellas later.
FORZA
FORZA
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
Was there a gif made of the hit on Pereira yesterday? I missed it and I can't seem to find a working link to the hit. I heard it was bad but never saw it.
TIA
TIA
The Gator
Footballguy
I'll text updarted, gb
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Jaysus
Good times!
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Wow, surprised the card stayed in the pocket there.
MattFancy
Footballguy
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
1) you quoted the wrong post I thinkI just think that's a false distinction. Presumably every player has a responsibility with the ball and without the ball. I don't think you need to sacrifice offense in order to have an advanced midfielder mark a deep-lying playmaker out of the game. You do have to sacrifice defensive shape in the middle of the field, particularly if the play-maker is clever enough to just move out to the flank the way Pirlo does when he's man-marked.You have to be a citizen of the country. Every country has different citizenship rules.So it's not like the Olympics? What is the determining factor of what team you can play for? Is it different for each country or is it a FIFA rule?It's not unique to the US either. There are plenty of players that could play for more than one country.Some examples from Germany:It is a confusing system for both old and new fans.Jermaine Jones, John Brooks, Fabian Johnson, and Tim Chandler are all born-and-bred Germans. Mix Diskerud is born-and-bred Norwegian.Julian Green and Aron Johansson were both born in the US but raised elsewhere (Green in Germany; Johansson in Iceland).
Then you look at two players who could have made the team this year like Diego Fagundez and Darlington Nagbe, who are both as American as one can possibly be and yet they can't play for the US because of various citizenship laws.
Miroslav Klose - born in Poland and moved to Germany when he was 8.
Lukas Podolski - born in Poland and moved to Germany when he was 2.
Jerome Boateng - born in Germany, but his father is from Ghana. His half brother plays for Ghana.
The US has players who lived here almost their entire life but can't represent the US and also has players who never stepped foot in the US playing for them because they were born US citizens.
2) it is not a false distinction because I am just asking a question about a tactic that is rarely if ever used to generate some conversation. I understand the responsibilities of players. I am not saying to sacrifice defensive shape at all. I am saying pretend you have a red card and are playing with 10 men. Lineup defensively as you would in that case to keep defensive shape and use the extra man to shadow a player who could control the game if he saw too much of the ball.
B Maverick
Footballguy
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
[icon]
Insoxicated
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
And when we say that tactic is not at all uncommon, you say we're misunderstanding you. Teams do that. But they only do that when they don't have the ball. Because it would make no sense to do that when they do have the ball.1) you quoted the wrong post I thinkI just think that's a false distinction. Presumably every player has a responsibility with the ball and without the ball. I don't think you need to sacrifice offense in order to have an advanced midfielder mark a deep-lying playmaker out of the game. You do have to sacrifice defensive shape in the middle of the field, particularly if the play-maker is clever enough to just move out to the flank the way Pirlo does when he's man-marked.You have to be a citizen of the country. Every country has different citizenship rules.So it's not like the Olympics? What is the determining factor of what team you can play for? Is it different for each country or is it a FIFA rule?It's not unique to the US either. There are plenty of players that could play for more than one country.Some examples from Germany:It is a confusing system for both old and new fans.Jermaine Jones, John Brooks, Fabian Johnson, and Tim Chandler are all born-and-bred Germans. Mix Diskerud is born-and-bred Norwegian.Julian Green and Aron Johansson were both born in the US but raised elsewhere (Green in Germany; Johansson in Iceland).
Then you look at two players who could have made the team this year like Diego Fagundez and Darlington Nagbe, who are both as American as one can possibly be and yet they can't play for the US because of various citizenship laws.
Miroslav Klose - born in Poland and moved to Germany when he was 8.
Lukas Podolski - born in Poland and moved to Germany when he was 2.
Jerome Boateng - born in Germany, but his father is from Ghana. His half brother plays for Ghana.
The US has players who lived here almost their entire life but can't represent the US and also has players who never stepped foot in the US playing for them because they were born US citizens.
2) it is not a false distinction because I am just asking a question about a tactic that is rarely if ever used to generate some conversation. I understand the responsibilities of players. I am not saying to sacrifice defensive shape at all. I am saying pretend you have a red card and are playing with 10 men. Lineup defensively as you would in that case to keep defensive shape and use the extra man to shadow a player who could control the game if he saw too much of the ball.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Floppo understood what I was specifically asking which is not what you are saying. I know teams do what you said obviously, that is a very common tactic.And when we say that tactic is not at all uncommon, you say we're misunderstanding you. Teams do that. But they only do that when they don't have the ball. Because it would make no sense to do that when they do have the ball.1) you quoted the wrong post I thinkI just think that's a false distinction. Presumably every player has a responsibility with the ball and without the ball. I don't think you need to sacrifice offense in order to have an advanced midfielder mark a deep-lying playmaker out of the game. You do have to sacrifice defensive shape in the middle of the field, particularly if the play-maker is clever enough to just move out to the flank the way Pirlo does when he's man-marked.You have to be a citizen of the country. Every country has different citizenship rules.So it's not like the Olympics? What is the determining factor of what team you can play for? Is it different for each country or is it a FIFA rule?It's not unique to the US either. There are plenty of players that could play for more than one country.Some examples from Germany:It is a confusing system for both old and new fans.Jermaine Jones, John Brooks, Fabian Johnson, and Tim Chandler are all born-and-bred Germans. Mix Diskerud is born-and-bred Norwegian.Julian Green and Aron Johansson were both born in the US but raised elsewhere (Green in Germany; Johansson in Iceland).
Then you look at two players who could have made the team this year like Diego Fagundez and Darlington Nagbe, who are both as American as one can possibly be and yet they can't play for the US because of various citizenship laws.
Miroslav Klose - born in Poland and moved to Germany when he was 8.
Lukas Podolski - born in Poland and moved to Germany when he was 2.
Jerome Boateng - born in Germany, but his father is from Ghana. His half brother plays for Ghana.
The US has players who lived here almost their entire life but can't represent the US and also has players who never stepped foot in the US playing for them because they were born US citizens.
2) it is not a false distinction because I am just asking a question about a tactic that is rarely if ever used to generate some conversation. I understand the responsibilities of players. I am not saying to sacrifice defensive shape at all. I am saying pretend you have a red card and are playing with 10 men. Lineup defensively as you would in that case to keep defensive shape and use the extra man to shadow a player who could control the game if he saw too much of the ball.
Lets drop it. We are not even reading the same book much less on the same page.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Italy have done a nice job of starving Campbell. Not the most exciting game though so far.
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
If teams reliably kept the ball forever, I'd agree with you. But I can imagine how it might make sense to play "defense" against a particularly dangerous player even when his team didn't have the ball, to prevent the possibility of a quick counterattack.
B Maverick
Footballguy
OH BALOTELLI!
Sammy3469
Footballguy
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
Yes, or even a draw.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
One of the reasons Pirlo always has so much space is no one pays attention to him when the opposing team has the ball. As soon as the ball turns over he is always open.
It would be a huge offensive sacrifice to shadow a player but you could starve a player like Pirlo. Obviously though as I said in my original question, it must be too big a sacrifice for the possible benefits.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Costa Rica against Uruguay was no fluke. They are playing Italy fairly even so far.
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