*Official 2015 Philadelphia Eagles* - Winning when it doesnt count (3 Viewers)

[Mighty Mice]

Some injury notes from Birds 24/7

Walter Thurmond (unknown) and Josh Huff (concussion) both sat out Tuesday's practice, which was held inside the NovaCare bubble because of the rain. ("Let me run around on this concrete, baby!" said one defensive starter of the less than state-of-the-art facility.)

Ryan Mathews appeared at practice for the first time since suffering his concussion against Miami. While he didn't participate, his presence suggests that he is further along in the concussion protocol. Pat Shurmur indicated before the session that he is in fact making progress.

While they didn't exactly look spry, Jason Kelce (knee) and Jason Peters (ankle, back) both were taking part in warm-ups and the early portion of training.

Sam Bradford was out there and is expected to practice this week. Chip Kelly called Tuesday a "big test" for the quarterback to see how his non-throwing shoulder responds to the activity.

Zach Ertz (concussion) is expected to participate today, per Shurmur.

Also, Billy Davis at the presser today says we're about to see 'lots more of Rowe' with Thurmond IR'd.

Thurmond? You mean Carroll?

Yeah. Typo.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Some injury notes from Birds 24/7

Walter Thurmond (unknown) and Josh Huff (concussion) both sat out Tuesday's practice, which was held inside the NovaCare bubble because of the rain. ("Let me run around on this concrete, baby!" said one defensive starter of the less than state-of-the-art facility.)

Ryan Mathews appeared at practice for the first time since suffering his concussion against Miami. While he didn't participate, his presence suggests that he is further along in the concussion protocol. Pat Shurmur indicated before the session that he is in fact making progress.

While they didn't exactly look spry, Jason Kelce (knee) and Jason Peters (ankle, back) both were taking part in warm-ups and the early portion of training.

Sam Bradford was out there and is expected to practice this week. Chip Kelly called Tuesday a "big test" for the quarterback to see how his non-throwing shoulder responds to the activity.

Zach Ertz (concussion) is expected to participate today, per Shurmur.

Also, Billy Davis at the presser today says we're about to see 'lots more of Rowe' with Thurmond IR'd.

Thurmond? You mean Carroll?

Yeah. Typo.

You need to edit that, yo. Almost had a heart attack.

 

[dhockster]

I will really be surprised if someone offers Bradford a big contract next year. It's not just that he hasn't shown much this year, it is more that he cannot stay healthy. No one is going to want to commit long-term dollars to this guy with his health history.

Well, all it takes is one dummy. However, the Raiders and the Redskins both seem to have their QB's right now, so that significantly lowers the chance that he gets a big contract.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Here it is from OvertheCap

Maxwell is here through next year at least. It would cost us $13.3 mil to cut him when his cap number is $9.7mil. We can save $8.1mil cutting him in 2017. Demarco the same. Costs us $13.3mil to cut against a $8mil cap number.

If Peters is truly done, that's a decent savings. If he's cut, we save $6.3 mil next year. Sanchez would be a $3.5mil savings. Celek $5mil. Cooper would save us $2.9 mil. Got to think he's gone. Sproles and Demeco save $3.5mil each.

Marcus Smith costs $1mil to send away. Sounds like a deal.

Not nearly as dire as the idiots on the radio misrepresented.

How do you figure that number for Cooper? Not disagreeing, just not following the math from the link.

In 2016, Cooper makes $5.3mil. If we cut him before his salary is owed (6/1), then it only costs us $2.4mil. So $2.9mil savings on the cap.

Still not getting this and genuinely interested.

It says his cap number is 4.8 million. Then it says if cut June 1, there is 6.2 dead and 1.4 saved. Where do the 5.3 and 2.4 come from?

 

[Autumn Wind]

I will really be surprised if someone offers Bradford a big contract next year. It's not just that he hasn't shown much this year, it is more that he cannot stay healthy. No one is going to want to commit long-term dollars to this guy with his health history.

Well, all it takes is one dummy. However, the Raiders and the Redskins both seem to have their QB's right now, so that significantly lowers the chance that he gets a big contract.

Matt Schaub is still employed. Never underestimate the desperation of NFL teams. That's not to say Bradford would land another huge contract, but he'll get something.

 

[Insein]

Here it is from OvertheCap

Maxwell is here through next year at least. It would cost us $13.3 mil to cut him when his cap number is $9.7mil. We can save $8.1mil cutting him in 2017. Demarco the same. Costs us $13.3mil to cut against a $8mil cap number.

If Peters is truly done, that's a decent savings. If he's cut, we save $6.3 mil next year. Sanchez would be a $3.5mil savings. Celek $5mil. Cooper would save us $2.9 mil. Got to think he's gone. Sproles and Demeco save $3.5mil each.

Marcus Smith costs $1mil to send away. Sounds like a deal.

Not nearly as dire as the idiots on the radio misrepresented.

How do you figure that number for Cooper? Not disagreeing, just not following the math from the link.

In 2016, Cooper makes $5.3mil. If we cut him before his salary is owed (6/1), then it only costs us $2.4mil. So $2.9mil savings on the cap.

Still not getting this and genuinely interested.

It says his cap number is 4.8 million. Then it says if cut June 1, there is 6.2 dead and 1.4 saved. Where do the 5.3 and 2.4 come from?

Have to click the 2016 tab.

 

[B-Deep]

I will really be surprised if someone offers Bradford a big contract next year. It's not just that he hasn't shown much this year, it is more that he cannot stay healthy. No one is going to want to commit long-term dollars to this guy with his health history.

Well, all it takes is one dummy. However, the Raiders and the Redskins both seem to have their QB's right now, so that significantly lowers the chance that he gets a big contract.

Browns

Jets

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I will really be surprised if someone offers Bradford a big contract next year. It's not just that he hasn't shown much this year, it is more that he cannot stay healthy. No one is going to want to commit long-term dollars to this guy with his health history.

Well, all it takes is one dummy. However, the Raiders and the Redskins both seem to have their QB's right now, so that significantly lowers the chance that he gets a big contract.

Browns

Jets

I think the Jets would just keep Fitzpatrick (depending on how the rest of the season plays out) rather than overpay Bradford. I hope at least.

 

[Mighty Mice]

Some injury notes from Birds 24/7

Walter Thurmond (unknown) and Josh Huff (concussion) both sat out Tuesday's practice, which was held inside the NovaCare bubble because of the rain. ("Let me run around on this concrete, baby!" said one defensive starter of the less than state-of-the-art facility.)

Ryan Mathews appeared at practice for the first time since suffering his concussion against Miami. While he didn't participate, his presence suggests that he is further along in the concussion protocol. Pat Shurmur indicated before the session that he is in fact making progress.

While they didn't exactly look spry, Jason Kelce (knee) and Jason Peters (ankle, back) both were taking part in warm-ups and the early portion of training.

Sam Bradford was out there and is expected to practice this week. Chip Kelly called Tuesday a "big test" for the quarterback to see how his non-throwing shoulder responds to the activity.

Zach Ertz (concussion) is expected to participate today, per Shurmur.

Also, Billy Davis at the presser today says we're about to see 'lots more of Rowe' with Nolan Carroll IR'd.

 

[dhockster]

I will really be surprised if someone offers Bradford a big contract next year. It's not just that he hasn't shown much this year, it is more that he cannot stay healthy. No one is going to want to commit long-term dollars to this guy with his health history.

Well, all it takes is one dummy. However, the Raiders and the Redskins both seem to have their QB's right now, so that significantly lowers the chance that he gets a big contract.

Matt Schaub is still employed. Never underestimate the desperation of NFL teams. That's not to say Bradford would land another huge contract, but he'll get something.

Schaub is a backup QB with a $2 million contract. Ryan Fitzpatrick is a decent starter getting $3.25 Million. Bradford will be signed by someone, my point is I have a hard time seeing it being anywhere close to $18 million which someone threw out as what it would cost to re-sign him next year. I think he might get between $5 million-$10 million with a lot of incentives.

 

[JuniorNB]

I will really be surprised if someone offers Bradford a big contract next year. It's not just that he hasn't shown much this year, it is more that he cannot stay healthy. No one is going to want to commit long-term dollars to this guy with his health history.

Well, all it takes is one dummy. However, the Raiders and the Redskins both seem to have their QB's right now, so that significantly lowers the chance that he gets a big contract.

Matt Schaub is still employed. Never underestimate the desperation of NFL teams. That's not to say Bradford would land another huge contract, but he'll get something.

Schaub is a backup QB with a $2 million contract. Ryan Fitzpatrick is a decent starter getting $3.25 Million. Bradford will be signed by someone, my point is I have a hard time seeing it being anywhere close to $18 million which someone threw out as what it would cost to re-sign him next year. I think he might get between $5 million-$10 million with a lot of incentives.

Who would you rather have between Bradford and Fitzpatrick? Assuming they cost the same?

 

[dhockster]

I will really be surprised if someone offers Bradford a big contract next year. It's not just that he hasn't shown much this year, it is more that he cannot stay healthy. No one is going to want to commit long-term dollars to this guy with his health history.

Well, all it takes is one dummy. However, the Raiders and the Redskins both seem to have their QB's right now, so that significantly lowers the chance that he gets a big contract.

Browns

Jets

I think the Jets would just keep Fitzpatrick (depending on how the rest of the season plays out) rather than overpay Bradford. I hope at least.

I agree with this. Fitzpatrick has thrown 37 TD's vs. 19 ints over the last 2 years. He is actually developing into a decent QB.

As for the Browns, they are such a mess, I could see them giving Bradford a big contract. It's going to be hard to for them to take a QB in the 1st round as it will be 3 QB's taken in the first round in the last 5 years.

 

[dhockster]

I will really be surprised if someone offers Bradford a big contract next year. It's not just that he hasn't shown much this year, it is more that he cannot stay healthy. No one is going to want to commit long-term dollars to this guy with his health history.

Well, all it takes is one dummy. However, the Raiders and the Redskins both seem to have their QB's right now, so that significantly lowers the chance that he gets a big contract.

Matt Schaub is still employed. Never underestimate the desperation of NFL teams. That's not to say Bradford would land another huge contract, but he'll get something.

Schaub is a backup QB with a $2 million contract. Ryan Fitzpatrick is a decent starter getting $3.25 Million. Bradford will be signed by someone, my point is I have a hard time seeing it being anywhere close to $18 million which someone threw out as what it would cost to re-sign him next year. I think he might get between $5 million-$10 million with a lot of incentives.

Who would you rather have between Bradford and Fitzpatrick? Assuming they cost the same?

Good question. Fitzpatrick can run, but he has Michael Vick disease in that he doesn't know how to slide and therefore gets hurt when he runs. I hate to say it but I would probably take a chance on Fitzpatrick. I just don't think Bradford is going to get much better (and still a major health risk) than he is right now.

The Eagles need to draft a QB in the first round, in my opinion.

 

[JuniorNB]

I will really be surprised if someone offers Bradford a big contract next year. It's not just that he hasn't shown much this year, it is more that he cannot stay healthy. No one is going to want to commit long-term dollars to this guy with his health history.

Well, all it takes is one dummy. However, the Raiders and the Redskins both seem to have their QB's right now, so that significantly lowers the chance that he gets a big contract.

Browns

Jets

I think the Jets would just keep Fitzpatrick (depending on how the rest of the season plays out) rather than overpay Bradford. I hope at least.

I agree with this. Fitzpatrick has thrown 37 TD's vs. 19 ints over the last 2 years. He is actually developing into a decent QB.

As for the Browns, they are such a mess, I could see them giving Bradford a big contract. It's going to be hard to for them to take a QB in the 1st round as it will be 3 QB's taken in the first round in the last 5 years.

I was just going to say this about Fitzpatrick. He's impressed me this year. Plus, he can run a bit. Not Cam Newtonish, but maybe Aaron Rodgersish.

 

[GoBirds]

Signing Fitzpatrick basically puts progress on hold for years. No upside at all.....if Sam doesn't resign throw a rookie in and let him take his lumps.

 

[Insein]

If Bradford stays healthy, he's going to have 14 games where he threw for 3600 yards, 20 TDs and about 16 ints. That's about Alex Smith and Jay cutler territory. Those guys make $17mil and $18mil respectively. You think an agent is going to settle for a $10 mil/year deal when Sam is going into the market the best available QB? Uh no.

 

[dhockster]

If Bradford stays healthy, he's going to have 14 games where he threw for 3600 yards, 20 TDs and about 16 ints. That's about Alex Smith and Jay cutler territory. Those guys make $17mil and $18mil respectively. You think an agent is going to settle for a $10 mil/year deal when Sam is going into the market the best available QB? Uh no.

There's the rub. Cutler and Smith have not been injured as much as Bradford. Therefore, teams are willing to pay more for a QB that is more likely to be able to play.

If a team is just one QB away from a really good shot at the Super Bowl, Bradford is probably not their guy because he is too risky healthwise. If you are not one QB away from the Super Bowl you probably would want to take your chance in the draft. I just don't see him getting as much as you think he will.

 

[dhockster]

Signing Fitzpatrick basically puts progress on hold for years. No upside at all.....if Sam doesn't resign throw a rookie in and let him take his lumps.

Just curious, what's Sam's upside? And I think the Eagles need to draft a QB in the first round whether they sign Bradford or any other Free Agent QB.

 

[GoBirds]

Signing Fitzpatrick basically puts progress on hold for years. No upside at all.....if Sam doesn't resign throw a rookie in and let him take his lumps.

Just curious, what's Sam's upside? And I think the Eagles need to draft a QB in the first round whether they sign Bradford or any other Free Agent QB.

Signing Fitzpatrick basically puts progress on hold for years. No upside at all.....if Sam doesn't resign throw a rookie in and let him take his lumps.

Just curious, what's Sam's upside? And I think the Eagles need to draft a QB in the first round whether they sign Bradford or any other Free Agent QB.

He already has 1 year in the system and at one point he was believed to have talent unlike Fitzpatrick. If we want a mediocre QB keep Sam don't start over with a new one.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

At the same price, I would definitely rather have Bradford than Fitzpatrick.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Here it is from OvertheCap

Maxwell is here through next year at least. It would cost us $13.3 mil to cut him when his cap number is $9.7mil. We can save $8.1mil cutting him in 2017. Demarco the same. Costs us $13.3mil to cut against a $8mil cap number.

If Peters is truly done, that's a decent savings. If he's cut, we save $6.3 mil next year. Sanchez would be a $3.5mil savings. Celek $5mil. Cooper would save us $2.9 mil. Got to think he's gone. Sproles and Demeco save $3.5mil each.

Marcus Smith costs $1mil to send away. Sounds like a deal.

Not nearly as dire as the idiots on the radio misrepresented.

How do you figure that number for Cooper? Not disagreeing, just not following the math from the link.

In 2016, Cooper makes $5.3mil. If we cut him before his salary is owed (6/1), then it only costs us $2.4mil. So $2.9mil savings on the cap.

Still not getting this and genuinely interested.

It says his cap number is 4.8 million. Then it says if cut June 1, there is 6.2 dead and 1.4 saved. Where do the 5.3 and 2.4 come from?

Have to click the 2016 tab.

wait, wait, wait, I still don't get it.

i kid, i kid. Thanks.

Actually several other things did not make sense to me either, based on what I previously knew about next year.

 

[GoBirds]

You guys see the Patriots signed Damaris Johnson. Does BB want info on this week's competition? Who would have thought he would be the last to figure out Chip's offense haha.

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

At the same price, I would definitely rather have Bradford than Fitzpatrick.

And at the same price, I would definitely rather have a Tesla than an Acura, too.

Insein's right; there's no way Bradford is going to settle for anything like $10M a year. Sam's next contract is going to look extremely similar to Kaepernick's current one; there will be plenty of roster bonuses, incentives, and out clauses built in, but the total "media figure" is going to be in the $15M a year range, if not more.

Fitz won't get half the annual salary of Bradford in their respective next contracts. Book it.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

At the same price, I would definitely rather have Bradford than Fitzpatrick.

And at the same price, I would definitely rather have a Tesla than an Acura, too.

Insein's right; there's no way Bradford is going to settle for anything like $10M a year. Sam's next contract is going to look extremely similar to Kaepernick's current one; there will be plenty of roster bonuses, incentives, and out clauses built in, but the total "media figure" is going to be in the $15M a year range, if not more.

Fitz won't get half the annual salary of Bradford in their respective next contracts. Book it.

no disagreement, just responding directly to JNB's question and other comments preferring Fitz.

 

[Insein]

If Bradford stays healthy, he's going to have 14 games where he threw for 3600 yards, 20 TDs and about 16 ints. That's about Alex Smith and Jay cutler territory. Those guys make $17mil and $18mil respectively. You think an agent is going to settle for a $10 mil/year deal when Sam is going into the market the best available QB? Uh no.

There's the rub. Cutler and Smith have not been injured as much as Bradford. Therefore, teams are willing to pay more for a QB that is more likely to be able to play.

If a team is just one QB away from a really good shot at the Super Bowl, Bradford is probably not their guy because he is too risky healthwise. If you are not one QB away from the Super Bowl you probably would want to take your chance in the draft. I just don't see him getting as much as you think he will.

Josh Mccown basically hadn't played football since 2007 before signing with the bears in 2013. He put together 1800-13-1 in 8 games and got Tampa to pay him $10 mil per year for 2 years.

Bradford will have legit starter numbers and 14 games played. Someone will pay him to be a starter.

 

[ShaHBucks]

If Bradford stays healthy, he's going to have 14 games where he threw for 3600 yards, 20 TDs and about 16 ints. That's about Alex Smith and Jay cutler territory. Those guys make $17mil and $18mil respectively. You think an agent is going to settle for a $10 mil/year deal when Sam is going into the market the best available QB? Uh no.

There's the rub. Cutler and Smith have not been injured as much as Bradford. Therefore, teams are willing to pay more for a QB that is more likely to be able to play.

If a team is just one QB away from a really good shot at the Super Bowl, Bradford is probably not their guy because he is too risky healthwise. If you are not one QB away from the Super Bowl you probably would want to take your chance in the draft. I just don't see him getting as much as you think he will.

Josh Mccown basically hadn't played football since 2007 before signing with the bears in 2013. He put together 1800-13-1 in 8 games and got Tampa to pay him $10 mil per year for 2 years. Bradford will have legit starter numbers and 14 games played. Someone will pay him to be a starter.

I highly doubt some team gives Braford starter money. The only teams he can start on are maybe Hou, SF and Stl(w Keenum ). I don't see why any of those teams would want him. *Believe it or not, Bradford has the same career numbers as Fitzpatrick. Another media magic trick right in front of your eyes. Throw in the cap saved and it's not much of a decision between the two below average QB's.

 

[GoBirds]

Sure, then they will use that cap savings to keep Riley Cooper another year or it will go unspent. Awesome.

 

[JuniorNB]

If Bradford stays healthy, he's going to have 14 games where he threw for 3600 yards, 20 TDs and about 16 ints. That's about Alex Smith and Jay cutler territory. Those guys make $17mil and $18mil respectively. You think an agent is going to settle for a $10 mil/year deal when Sam is going into the market the best available QB? Uh no.

There's the rub. Cutler and Smith have not been injured as much as Bradford. Therefore, teams are willing to pay more for a QB that is more likely to be able to play.

If a team is just one QB away from a really good shot at the Super Bowl, Bradford is probably not their guy because he is too risky healthwise. If you are not one QB away from the Super Bowl you probably would want to take your chance in the draft. I just don't see him getting as much as you think he will.

Josh Mccown basically hadn't played football since 2007 before signing with the bears in 2013. He put together 1800-13-1 in 8 games and got Tampa to pay him $10 mil per year for 2 years. Bradford will have legit starter numbers and 14 games played. Someone will pay him to be a starter.

The only teams he can start on are maybe Hou, SF and Stl(w Keenum ).

Congratulations. That must have been difficult to include St Louis in your list. But you swallowed your pride and did it. You've come a long way. Let the healing begin.

 

[Insein]

If Bradford stays healthy, he's going to have 14 games where he threw for 3600 yards, 20 TDs and about 16 ints. That's about Alex Smith and Jay cutler territory. Those guys make $17mil and $18mil respectively. You think an agent is going to settle for a $10 mil/year deal when Sam is going into the market the best available QB? Uh no.

There's the rub. Cutler and Smith have not been injured as much as Bradford. Therefore, teams are willing to pay more for a QB that is more likely to be able to play.

If a team is just one QB away from a really good shot at the Super Bowl, Bradford is probably not their guy because he is too risky healthwise. If you are not one QB away from the Super Bowl you probably would want to take your chance in the draft. I just don't see him getting as much as you think he will.

Josh Mccown basically hadn't played football since 2007 before signing with the bears in 2013. He put together 1800-13-1 in 8 games and got Tampa to pay him $10 mil per year for 2 years. Bradford will have legit starter numbers and 14 games played. Someone will pay him to be a starter.

I highly doubt some team gives Braford starter money. The only teams he can start on are maybe Hou, SF and Stl(w Keenum ). I don't see why any of those teams would want him. *Believe it or not, Bradford has the same career numbers as Fitzpatrick. Another media magic trick right in front of your eyes. Throw in the cap saved and it's not much of a decision between the two below average QB's.

You have to take historic numbers out of it and look at the market. He'll be best available based on the stats he accumulated in this offense. Add kn that he played 14 of 16 games, standard for a starting QB these days and someone will throw the big bucks at him with a few injury incentives in the contract.

I don't want that for the Eagles. Don't want a $18 mil QB on a team that needs so much.

 

[fatness]

("Let me run around on this concrete, baby!" said one defensive starter of the less than state-of-the-art facility.)

 

[BobbyLayne]

I will really be surprised if someone offers Bradford a big contract next year. It's not just that he hasn't shown much this year, it is more that he cannot stay healthy. No one is going to want to commit long-term dollars to this guy with his health history.

Well, all it takes is one dummy. However, the Raiders and the Redskins both seem to have their QB's right now, so that significantly lowers the chance that he gets a big contract.

He's probably looking at Fitz Hoyer McCown type money. Two for $10M. three for $14M. Hope he's invested well with that $78M he's made so far.

 

[JuniorNB]

I will really be surprised if someone offers Bradford a big contract next year. It's not just that he hasn't shown much this year, it is more that he cannot stay healthy. No one is going to want to commit long-term dollars to this guy with his health history.

Well, all it takes is one dummy. However, the Raiders and the Redskins both seem to have their QB's right now, so that significantly lowers the chance that he gets a big contract.

He's probably looking at Fitz Hoyer McCown type money. Two for $10M. three for $14M. Hope he's invested well with that $78M he's made so far.

No way he's signing for that little. Hoyer, Fitz, and McCown are drifters. They are career backups who get a shot at starting once in a while. I'd be happy if Philly resigned him for $12/per. As long as it was incentive laden and had outs for games missed due to injury. But if he's looking for $18 million like Insein thinks he might, I hope Philly lets him walk. He's not worth that.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I will really be surprised if someone offers Bradford a big contract next year. It's not just that he hasn't shown much this year, it is more that he cannot stay healthy. No one is going to want to commit long-term dollars to this guy with his health history.

Well, all it takes is one dummy. However, the Raiders and the Redskins both seem to have their QB's right now, so that significantly lowers the chance that he gets a big contract.

He's probably looking at Fitz Hoyer McCown type money. Two for $10M. three for $14M. Hope he's invested well with that $78M he's made so far.

No way he's signing for that little. Hoyer, Fitz, and McCown are drifters. They are career backups who get a shot at starting once in a while. I'd be happy if Philly resigned him for $12/per. As long as it was incentive laden and had outs for games missed due to injury. But if he's looking for $18 million like Insein thinks he might, I hope Philly lets him walk. He's not worth that.

What has Bradford achieved over any of those guys (as an NFL player)? I'm sure he'll want more. There may be one team dumb enough to pay him more (perhaps Cleveland), but at this point I don't think he's highly thought of anymore. He's accomplished nothing at the NFL level and he's always injured.

 

[BobbyLayne]

I will really be surprised if someone offers Bradford a big contract next year. It's not just that he hasn't shown much this year, it is more that he cannot stay healthy. No one is going to want to commit long-term dollars to this guy with his health history.

Well, all it takes is one dummy. However, the Raiders and the Redskins both seem to have their QB's right now, so that significantly lowers the chance that he gets a big contract.

He's probably looking at Fitz Hoyer McCown type money. Two for $10M. three for $14M. Hope he's invested well with that $78M he's made so far.

No way he's signing for that little. Hoyer, Fitz, and McCown are drifters. They are career backups who get a shot at starting once in a while. I'd be happy if Philly resigned him for $12/per. As long as it was incentive laden and had outs for games missed due to injury. But if he's looking for $18 million like Insein thinks he might, I hope Philly lets him walk. He's not worth that.

OK.

I don't know what the QB market will be like this winter, I was just looking over the list of current QB contracts.

http://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/

He's not a franchise quarterback. He was thought to be at one time. He has proven through a six year body of work he is not.

I looked at that list and said, "OK, he's not on his first contract or elite or the guy a team will build their team around. So if he's not in that top 22-24, then what is he worth? I guess probably the same amount as other journeymen who have failed on multiple teams."

 

[Insein]

I will really be surprised if someone offers Bradford a big contract next year. It's not just that he hasn't shown much this year, it is more that he cannot stay healthy. No one is going to want to commit long-term dollars to this guy with his health history.

Well, all it takes is one dummy. However, the Raiders and the Redskins both seem to have their QB's right now, so that significantly lowers the chance that he gets a big contract.

He's probably looking at Fitz Hoyer McCown type money. Two for $10M. three for $14M. Hope he's invested well with that $78M he's made so far.

Yea if he has the worst agent in the world. He would then get Fitz, Hoyer Mccown money when he's the best available QB with starter statistics.

 

[Mighty Mice]

Unbelievable how bad this division is. Not sure I've ever seen anything like this season in the NFC East. Washington in first in week 12, while under .500 and winless (0-5) on the road. Who would have guessed that?

Looking at the Vegas lines, here's how it is 'supposed' to play out through week 13

WAS (-2) over DAL

NYJ (-2) over NYG

NE (-9.5) over PHI

WAS 6-6

NYG 5-7

PHI 4-8

DAL 3-9

Can anyone get to 8-8? If they can, they win the division outright.

Is Washington capable of winning their first road game of the year at some point? Have 3 left... would make them 7-9 at best if not.

Will NY hit their stride and make a late season push to win 3 more games and get to 8-8? Maybe, but to do so, they must beat the NYJ this week IMO.

Can PHI beat BUF/WAS/NYG and upset either NE or ARI to get to 8-8? No chance IMO.

Crazy year.

 

[BobbyLayne]

I will really be surprised if someone offers Bradford a big contract next year. It's not just that he hasn't shown much this year, it is more that he cannot stay healthy. No one is going to want to commit long-term dollars to this guy with his health history.

Well, all it takes is one dummy. However, the Raiders and the Redskins both seem to have their QB's right now, so that significantly lowers the chance that he gets a big contract.

He's probably looking at Fitz Hoyer McCown type money. Two for $10M. three for $14M. Hope he's invested well with that $78M he's made so far.

Yea if he has the worst agent in the world. He would then get Fitz, Hoyer Mccown money when he's the best available QB with starter statistics.

That's your argument for someone overpaying? He's got starter statistics? Well, I'll just say I've seen you argue with greater conviction, perhaps a tad more substance, and leave it at that.

I guess as with any transaction, he'll be worth whatever the buyer thinks he is worth. Which is apparently somewhere in between $5M and $18M. Somebody might overpay. Won't get what you want unless you ask.

 

[Mighty Mice]

Just thinking out loud, has a team ever made the playoffs going 0-8 on the road? I know SEA, CAR, etch have made the playoffs sub-.500, but I don't recall a team ever doing what WAS may actually pull off.

Hypothetically, should PHI win one of the next 3, and be 5-9, they will have a chance to beat WAS and @NYG to go 7-9. They will own a tiebreak over the NYG (beat them twice) and a tiebreak over WAS (split head to head, have a 4-2 division record, with WAS at 3-3 division record).

If either WAS or NYG get to 8 wins, it's over.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I will really be surprised if someone offers Bradford a big contract next year. It's not just that he hasn't shown much this year, it is more that he cannot stay healthy. No one is going to want to commit long-term dollars to this guy with his health history.

Well, all it takes is one dummy. However, the Raiders and the Redskins both seem to have their QB's right now, so that significantly lowers the chance that he gets a big contract.

He's probably looking at Fitz Hoyer McCown type money. Two for $10M. three for $14M. Hope he's invested well with that $78M he's made so far.

Yea if he has the worst agent in the world. He would then get Fitz, Hoyer Mccown money when he's the best available QB with starter statistics.

Fitz, Hoyer and McCown all have better statistics than him or at least equal.

 

[ShaHBucks]

I will really be surprised if someone offers Bradford a big contract next year. It's not just that he hasn't shown much this year, it is more that he cannot stay healthy. No one is going to want to commit long-term dollars to this guy with his health history.

Well, all it takes is one dummy. However, the Raiders and the Redskins both seem to have their QB's right now, so that significantly lowers the chance that he gets a big contract.

He's probably looking at Fitz Hoyer McCown type money. Two for $10M. three for $14M. Hope he's invested well with that $78M he's made so far.

No way he's signing for that little. Hoyer, Fitz, and McCown are drifters. They are career backups who get a shot at starting once in a while. I'd be happy if Philly resigned him for $12/per. As long as it was incentive laden and had outs for games missed due to injury. But if he's looking for $18 million like Insein thinks he might, I hope Philly lets him walk. He's not worth that.

What has Bradford achieved over any of those guys (as an NFL player)? I'm sure he'll want more. There may be one team dumb enough to pay him more (perhaps Cleveland), but at this point I don't think he's highly thought of anymore. He's accomplished nothing at the NFL level and he's always injured.

He has name value. It looks like Chip is here to stay. There's that too

 

[babydemon90]

Just thinking out loud, has a team ever made the playoffs going 0-8 on the road? I know SEA, CAR, etch have made the playoffs sub-.500, but I don't recall a team ever doing what WAS may actually pull off.

Hypothetically, should PHI win one of the next 3, and be 5-9, they will have a chance to beat WAS and @NYG to go 7-9. They will own a tiebreak over the NYG (beat them twice) and a tiebreak over WAS (split head to head, have a 4-2 division record, with WAS at 3-3 division record).

If either WAS or NYG get to 8 wins, it's over.

If our team had heart, I'd say we could do that. I'm not seeing it though - feels like they've given up. Losing out would not surprise me here.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

What has Bradford achieved over any of those guys (as an NFL player)? I'm sure he'll want more. There may be one team dumb enough to pay him more (perhaps Cleveland), but at this point I don't think he's highly thought of anymore. He's accomplished nothing at the NFL level and he's always injured.

He has name value. It looks like Chip is here to stay. There's that too

Does Chip really like him that much though or is this a case of him taking a "swing for the fences" chance that didn't work out. I can't see him being please with Bradford's season, barring a late season surge.

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

OK.

I don't know what the QB market will be like this winter, I was just looking over the list of current QB contracts.

http://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/

He's not a franchise quarterback. He was thought to be at one time. He has proven through a six year body of work he is not.

I looked at that list and said, "OK, he's not on his first contract or elite or the guy a team will build their team around. So if he's not in that top 22-24, then what is he worth? I guess probably the same amount as other journeymen who have failed on multiple teams."

Interestingly, OTC themselves seem to have weighed in on this a couple of weeks ago: http://overthecap.com/2016-nfl-free-agency-quarterbacks-overview/

Their take, for what it's worth (I pulled the last paragraphs only, click through to read in full):

Sam Bradford, Eagles

Because of his draft pedigree the earning potential for Bradford is high, but teams are going to need to see much more from him before handing over the kind of money top quarterbacks receive. Nick Foles recently signed a two year $12 million contract which is probably the floor for Bradford, provided he maintains his job as a starter and doesn’t get injured. His rookie contract paid $13 million a season and essentially extending him for a year or two between $13 and 14 million seems like a reasonable deal for both parties. While they would not allow him to reach free agency until he is 31, as a quarterback he could conceivably sign two contracts after that. He has to avoid being benched or injured to get the two year deal. If any of those two occurs I believe his value would drop significantly.

Predicted Value: 2 years, $26-$28 million.

Ryan Fittzpatrick, Jets

Fitzpatrick should land a job with any team in the NFL that has questions at the position and no chance to draft or trade for another player. He could also be the highest paid backup for a team like Dallas, but he seems to want a spot where he can compete as a starter. The Jets would seem to be the team most likely to retain him, but one would expect them to explore the market before making a two year commitment to Fitzpatrick. If not the Jets expect Fitzpatrick to get a close look by some of the teams rumored to be trading their starter to be a one or two year stopgap starter.

Predicted Value: 2 Years, $10-11.5 million

Call it supply and demand, call it perception, call it the value of (relative) youth, whatever, but they seem to think that Bradford will get more than 2x as much as Fitz.

If anything, I think Bradford's contract value will be higher than that range ... albeit jam-packed with incentives and out clauses. Fitz's numbers look a little low in a world where Josh freaking McCown got that much, but who knows?

And for the record, I want no part of Bradford at $14-15M per. Absolutely no part. As much as it pains me to say, I'd rather sign RG3 and Kaep for half that much combined and let them fight a steel cage match to be next year's starter.

 

[Mighty Mice]

Just thinking out loud, has a team ever made the playoffs going 0-8 on the road? I know SEA, CAR, etch have made the playoffs sub-.500, but I don't recall a team ever doing what WAS may actually pull off.

Hypothetically, should PHI win one of the next 3, and be 5-9, they will have a chance to beat WAS and @NYG to go 7-9. They will own a tiebreak over the NYG (beat them twice) and a tiebreak over WAS (split head to head, have a 4-2 division record, with WAS at 3-3 division record).

If either WAS or NYG get to 8 wins, it's over.

If our team had heart, I'd say we could do that. I'm not seeing it though - feels like they've given up. Losing out would not surprise me here.

I'm inclined to agree. Just hoping to see some improvement and adjustments. Something to build on for next year. Been frustrating to say the least, and even more so to see the slop the division is, and how easily a solid squad could have finished on top.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I will really be surprised if someone offers Bradford a big contract next year. It's not just that he hasn't shown much this year, it is more that he cannot stay healthy. No one is going to want to commit long-term dollars to this guy with his health history.

Well, all it takes is one dummy. However, the Raiders and the Redskins both seem to have their QB's right now, so that significantly lowers the chance that he gets a big contract.

He's probably looking at Fitz Hoyer McCown type money. Two for $10M. three for $14M. Hope he's invested well with that $78M he's made so far.

Yea if he has the worst agent in the world. He would then get Fitz, Hoyer Mccown money when he's the best available QB with starter statistics.

Actually the more I think about it, I'd guess that any of those three would have a equal or better season than Bradford if they were the Eagles QB. They all have the mobility that Chip requires and are decent enough passers. Fitz lacks arm strength, McCown is reckless with his body and his decisions and Hoyer is about as average as they come in every aspect - so they all have their flaws as well, but Bradford isn't without flaws either.

 

[JuniorNB]

I will really be surprised if someone offers Bradford a big contract next year. It's not just that he hasn't shown much this year, it is more that he cannot stay healthy. No one is going to want to commit long-term dollars to this guy with his health history.

Well, all it takes is one dummy. However, the Raiders and the Redskins both seem to have their QB's right now, so that significantly lowers the chance that he gets a big contract.

He's probably looking at Fitz Hoyer McCown type money. Two for $10M. three for $14M. Hope he's invested well with that $78M he's made so far.

No way he's signing for that little. Hoyer, Fitz, and McCown are drifters. They are career backups who get a shot at starting once in a while. I'd be happy if Philly resigned him for $12/per. As long as it was incentive laden and had outs for games missed due to injury. But if he's looking for $18 million like Insein thinks he might, I hope Philly lets him walk. He's not worth that.

What has Bradford achieved over any of those guys (as an NFL player)? I'm sure he'll want more. There may be one team dumb enough to pay him more (perhaps Cleveland), but at this point I don't think he's highly thought of anymore. He's accomplished nothing at the NFL level and he's always injured.

That's why I think anyone who signs him are going to have a lot of injury clauses included. In fairness, I'd rather wait until the end of the season until I determine whether I want Philly to make a run at keeping him or not and at what price. If the season were over now, I would not pay him any more than 12 million per. That may seem high, but it would make him the 20th highest paid quarterback in the league. Keep in mind, Tannehill makes 19 mill. Kaepernick 19 mill. Stafford 17 mill. Alex Smith 17 mill. Nick Foles just signed for two years at 12.5 mill and he's been benched for their second and third stringers.

To my eyes, Bradford was starting to look a lot more comfortable in the games before he got hurt. He threw a seed that went through Josh Huff's hands that would have had them a 2 point conversion from a tie in the 4th quarter at Carolina, followed by a very good game at Dallas, and a good start against Miami (albeit, followed by a crappy second quarter). And then he got hurt. So if he continues to improve in these last five games, then maybe I'd concede that he's worth a bit more, but right now, I'd offer him 12. If he goes elsewhere, pay Fitzpatrick $10 mill (he currently makes 3.5) for 2 years and hope you have drafted your successor in the meantime.

 

[Mighty Mice]

OK.

I don't know what the QB market will be like this winter, I was just looking over the list of current QB contracts.

http://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/

He's not a franchise quarterback. He was thought to be at one time. He has proven through a six year body of work he is not.

I looked at that list and said, "OK, he's not on his first contract or elite or the guy a team will build their team around. So if he's not in that top 22-24, then what is he worth? I guess probably the same amount as other journeymen who have failed on multiple teams."

Interestingly, OTC themselves seem to have weighed in on this a couple of weeks ago: http://overthecap.com/2016-nfl-free-agency-quarterbacks-overview/

Their take, for what it's worth (I pulled the last paragraphs only, click through to read in full):

Sam Bradford, Eagles

Because of his draft pedigree the earning potential for Bradford is high, but teams are going to need to see much more from him before handing over the kind of money top quarterbacks receive. Nick Foles recently signed a two year $12 million contract which is probably the floor for Bradford, provided he maintains his job as a starter and doesn’t get injured. His rookie contract paid $13 million a season and essentially extending him for a year or two between $13 and 14 million seems like a reasonable deal for both parties. While they would not allow him to reach free agency until he is 31, as a quarterback he could conceivably sign two contracts after that. He has to avoid being benched or injured to get the two year deal. If any of those two occurs I believe his value would drop significantly.

Predicted Value: 2 years, $26-$28 million.

Ryan Fittzpatrick, Jets

Fitzpatrick should land a job with any team in the NFL that has questions at the position and no chance to draft or trade for another player. He could also be the highest paid backup for a team like Dallas, but he seems to want a spot where he can compete as a starter. The Jets would seem to be the team most likely to retain him, but one would expect them to explore the market before making a two year commitment to Fitzpatrick. If not the Jets expect Fitzpatrick to get a close look by some of the teams rumored to be trading their starter to be a one or two year stopgap starter.

Predicted Value: 2 Years, $10-11.5 million

Call it supply and demand, call it perception, call it the value of (relative) youth, whatever, but they seem to think that Bradford will get more than 2x as much as Fitz.

If anything, I think Bradford's contract value will be higher than that range ... albeit jam-packed with incentives and out clauses. Fitz's numbers look a little low in a world where Josh freaking McCown got that much, but who knows?

And for the record, I want no part of Bradford at $14-15M per. Absolutely no part. As much as it pains me to say, I'd rather sign RG3 and Kaep for half that much combined and let them fight a steel cage match to be next year's starter.

There are no winners in that fight. FWIW I think we're married to Bradford. Chip's going to see this through with his plan, his coordinators, and his QB. Frankly, he gave up too much to cut bait this quickly. The fact they offered to extend him preseason is also indicative of this IMO. And, honestly, he was getting better before his injury and with a year in system, should be better still in 2016.

Chip is in love with Bradford's potential. When he speaks of him, it's as if he thought he heard bells. Might just be a garbage truck backing up, but not sure Chip agrees.

Prediction: 2 years, $28.5M

 

[ShaHBucks]

Draft 7 QB's [/thread]

 

[ShaHBucks]

OK.

I don't know what the QB market will be like this winter, I was just looking over the list of current QB contracts.

http://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/

He's not a franchise quarterback. He was thought to be at one time. He has proven through a six year body of work he is not.

I looked at that list and said, "OK, he's not on his first contract or elite or the guy a team will build their team around. So if he's not in that top 22-24, then what is he worth? I guess probably the same amount as other journeymen who have failed on multiple teams."

Interestingly, OTC themselves seem to have weighed in on this a couple of weeks ago: http://overthecap.com/2016-nfl-free-agency-quarterbacks-overview/

Their take, for what it's worth (I pulled the last paragraphs only, click through to read in full):

Sam Bradford, Eagles

Because of his draft pedigree the earning potential for Bradford is high, but teams are going to need to see much more from him before handing over the kind of money top quarterbacks receive. Nick Foles recently signed a two year $12 million contract which is probably the floor for Bradford, provided he maintains his job as a starter and doesnt get injured. His rookie contract paid $13 million a season and essentially extending him for a year or two between $13 and 14 million seems like a reasonable deal for both parties. While they would not allow him to reach free agency until he is 31, as a quarterback he could conceivably sign two contracts after that. He has to avoid being benched or injured to get the two year deal. If any of those two occurs I believe his value would drop significantly.

Predicted Value: 2 years, $26-$28 million.



Ryan Fittzpatrick, Jets

Fitzpatrick should land a job with any team in the NFL that has questions at the position and no chance to draft or trade for another player. He could also be the highest paid backup for a team like Dallas, but he seems to want a spot where he can compete as a starter. The Jets would seem to be the team most likely to retain him, but one would expect them to explore the market before making a two year commitment to Fitzpatrick. If not the Jets expect Fitzpatrick to get a close look by some of the teams rumored to be trading their starter to be a one or two year stopgap starter.

Predicted Value: 2 Years, $10-11.5 million

Call it supply and demand, call it perception, call it the value of (relative) youth, whatever, but they seem to think that Bradford will get more than 2x as much as Fitz.

If anything, I think Bradford's contract value will be higher than that range ... albeit jam-packed with incentives and out clauses. Fitz's numbers look a little low in a world where Josh freaking McCown got that much, but who knows?

And for the record, I want no part of Bradford at $14-15M per. Absolutely no part. As much as it pains me to say, I'd rather sign RG3 and Kaep for half that much combined and let them fight a steel cage match to be next year's starter.

There are no winners in that fight. FWIW I think we're married to Bradford. Chip's going to see this through with his plan, his coordinators, and his QB. Frankly, he gave up too much to cut bait this quickly. The fact they offered to extend him preseason is also indicative of this IMO. And, honestly, he was getting better before his injury and with a year in system, should be better still in 2016.Chip is in love with Bradford's potential. When he speaks of him, it's as if he thought he heard bells. Might just be a garbage truck backing up, but not sure Chip agrees.

Prediction: 2 years, $28.5M

Exactly what I was going to say here. Chip has thrown everyone under the bus besides Bradford. I doubt he just calls it quits

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

There are no winners in that fight. FWIW I think we're married to Bradford. Chip's going to see this through with his plan, his coordinators, and his QB. Frankly, he gave up too much to cut bait this quickly. The fact they offered to extend him preseason is also indicative of this IMO. And, honestly, he was getting better before his injury and with a year in system, should be better still in 2016.

Chip is in love with Bradford's potential. When he speaks of him, it's as if he thought he heard bells. Might just be a garbage truck backing up, but not sure Chip agrees.

Prediction: 2 years, $28.5M

An improved Sam Bradford currently ranks 26th in QB rating, 29th in QBR, 27th in ANY/A. How big is the gap between those numbers and where he'd need to be to lead this team to the promised land, and is it really reasonable to expect that much more improvement from him at this stage in his career?

It's all about opportunity cost. You just can't pay a guy mid-range starter money to deliver ANY/A's in the 25-28 range when you can get those numbers from a half-dozen other guys at a quarter of the price tag. Even if those guys are just there to serve as stopgaps while you draft and groom your QB of the future.

The NFL salary cap is a real ##### of a mistress.