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Official 2016 GOP thread: Is it really going to be Donald Trump?? (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
Hilts
Footballguy
Some great quotes by Carson:
http://www.nationaljournal.com/2016-elections/ben-carson-2016-controversial-quotes-20150504
joffer
Footballguy
JFC I missed this one
4) On Advanced Placement history class: "I think most people, when they finish that course, they'd be ready to go sign up for ISIS."
Rove!
Footballguy
He could have renewed the agreement...
If regime change was so bad in Iraq, leaving a vacuum etc, what in the #### were Hillary and Obama thinking doing the same in Syria?
Looking at how many ground forces were needed to stabilize Iraq and kick ISIS out, what did we expect would happen when Assad fell? Obama had the advantage of seeing the violence and terrorism in Iraq and he still persued the policy. Arms and aid from us and allies ended up in ISIS' hands. As Joe Biden said, they were no moderates amongst the rebels.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
This nation is built on immigrants who came to this country to make a better life for their kids. Taking away the 14 amendment?? The country you guys "want back" never existed.
Ben Carson thinks the earth is 8000 years old and that the bible should rule over the constitution.
Ben Carson thinks the earth is 8000 years old and that the bible should rule over the constitution.
SIDA!
Footballguy
LOL at the 14th Amendment granting birthright citizenship.
You mean the "jurisdiction" word?
Then if we are truly using "jurisdiction" as the reason birthright citizenship is constitutional then every mother####er who entered this country legally or illegally would be a citizen. There is nothing there that magically says all you have to do is make across our border, give birth, and you are golden.
GTFO.
Fennis
Footballguy
Have you read the 14th amendment? Its very clear. If you don't like what's in the Constitution there are steps to change it.
SIDA!
Footballguy
Yeah. I have read it. Show me where it gives birthright citizenship.
Here is the intro of it:
"Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."
Please tell me why the "bolded" part is in there if all you have to do is be born here to be a citizen. It starts with "ALL PERSONS BORN...IN THE UNITED STATES".
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Fennis
Footballguy
You want a reading list? You can start here, when you're done Ill give you your next assignment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Wong_Kim_Ark
SIDA!
Footballguy
Yeah, I am familiar with that decision.
Good to know you think that the Supreme Court has never made a bad ruling.
The argument is summed up here from that entry:
Good to know you think that the Supreme Court has never made a bad ruling.
The argument is summed up here from that entry:
The point remains...there is no need to add "and subject to the jurisdiction of" if all you have to do is be born here.
SIDA!
Footballguy
One more thing Fennis, since you want to be condescending towards me...why don't you tell me what happened to the Native Americans born on their sovereign reservations under the 14th Amendment.
But, by all means, please show me your google skills and give me a reading list on a subject I know infinitely more about than you do.
But, by all means, please show me your google skills and give me a reading list on a subject I know infinitely more about than you do.
The Man Who Met Andy Griffith
Footballguy
Your broad argument (that the jurisdiction clause means birthright citizenship isn't guaranteed) is far out of the mainstream, but at least somewhat coherent. Your first sentence in your final paragraph is just poor logic, and fails to appreciate the simple meaning of the word "and".
It's not entirely clear to me what you think the jurisdiction clause means. As an example, I'm a Jew born to U.S. parents in America. Suppose that Israel also considers me a citizen by virtue of my Judaism (I don't know for sure whether this is true). Would this make me a non-citizen due to the conflicting jurisdiction?
P.S. -- this article has a completely plausible interpretation of the jurisdiction clause--it's intended to exclude agents of foreign governments / armies, similar to how the British system worked for 300 years.
https://sites.google.com/site/huhnconstitutionallaw/discussion/birthright-citizenship
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SIDA!
Footballguy
The Man/Andy Griffith:
I am going to bed soon, but will touch on a couple of points and continue the conversation later.
The United States is one of something like 30 nations in the world that has birthright citizenship. In a macro sense, opposing this is not out of the mainstream. No other European nations even have it and a handful of countries have repealed it over the last decade or so. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Jurisdiction referred to slaves as the 14th sprung up as a result of the Civil War. It is in the context of granting the rights of citizenship to people who werent even considered human beings.
It was only later that it was bastardized in the courts.
As for your example, your parents are American thus you would be considered an American. It is late...so maybe I am missing a nuance you are attempting to convey.
I am going to bed soon, but will touch on a couple of points and continue the conversation later.
The United States is one of something like 30 nations in the world that has birthright citizenship. In a macro sense, opposing this is not out of the mainstream. No other European nations even have it and a handful of countries have repealed it over the last decade or so. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Jurisdiction referred to slaves as the 14th sprung up as a result of the Civil War. It is in the context of granting the rights of citizenship to people who werent even considered human beings.
It was only later that it was bastardized in the courts.
As for your example, your parents are American thus you would be considered an American. It is late...so maybe I am missing a nuance you are attempting to convey.
Leaving it up to the powers that be to determine who is a citizen is a scary thought. Politically dangerous? To the extreme. Republicans are just throwing votes away for decades to come while gaining absolutely nothing.
It's not hyperbole when the leading Republicans don't want those of Hispanic descent to be granted citizenship even if they are born here. Things are off the rails.
pantherclub
Footballguy
Thats funny because my wife made the exact same statement (minus the "suck off" part) when Trump was ranting about deporting all illegals earlier this week.
The way we cater to Israel is just bizarre.
Like a lot of the amendments, it's really not that clear. For example, children born to foreign ambassadors are not deemed to be citizens. That clause could easily be interpreted to also exclude children of those here illegally.
Gary Coal Man
Footballguy
The latest Public Policy Polling numbers show a surprising presidential hopeful overtaking Carly Fiorina, Mike Huckabee, and Scott Walker in North Carolina — and he's dead even with Marco Rubio, too. The independent candidate, registered as "Deez Nuts," is officially polling at 9 percent in North Carolina.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
More evidence of what NCCommish was saying about the amount of anger in the voting base of this country. All I can say is, it's about time.
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
Fennis
Footballguy
Well to be fair, he and I are tied in the polls, and I don't even get to be one of the 6 talking heads.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Even the right hand looks like a bad photoshop job.
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Trump 27%
Carson 12%
Cruz 10%
Huckabee 5%
That's 54% of the vote for the "non-establishment" candidate. But they need to unite behind one of these guys to win, because the establishment WILL unite behind one guy: Bush, Rubio, Walker, or Kasich.
Carson 12%
Cruz 10%
Huckabee 5%
That's 54% of the vote for the "non-establishment" candidate. But they need to unite behind one of these guys to win, because the establishment WILL unite behind one guy: Bush, Rubio, Walker, or Kasich.
cstu
Footballguy
I can't wrap my mind around polls saying Rubio has the best chance to beat Hillary but he's not even in the top 4 among Republican candidates. Bizarre.
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
As much as I can't stand him and as dangerously crazy as I think he is, things have set up better for Cruz than I ever would have thought possible.timschochet said:
Huckabee is no factor. I can't conceive of Carson being able to put together the kind of campaign necessary. But Cruz... Cruz just might - he certainly enjoys campaigning from what I watched on c-span today. Dunno what his odds are in the futures market for the nomination but he's a darkhorse with a shot depending on how the whole Trump thing plays out.
The thing about the Trump vote if he collapses is:
1) There's no guarantee that it'll all shift to one of the other crazies. Trump's an candidate that people put their own views onto b/c he says so little.
2) They could well just stay home.
-QG
skol asylum
Footballguy
Dang. That's a whole lot of crazy going on on the right.timschochet said:
Rohn Jambo
Footballguy
The financial market is more interesting to me right now - have been waiting for a buying opportunity since 2011. I'll check back here in 6 months....
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NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
The thing about waiting for any of these candidates to "collapse" is that most of these guys are already sitting on what would normally be considered post collapse support. When Gingrich, Perry, and Cain fell last election cycle they didn't go to zero, they went to around 5 - 12 %
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
Yep. And you have to wonder what Trump could do to collapse at this point - normally his idiotic comments and positions would have killed him already. Would finding kiddie porn or snuff films on his hard drives hurt him or help him with Republican voters?
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Might get him the Duggar vote. That in itself could be a 2% bump.
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NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
Trump probably won't collapse in the traditional sense. My guess is he hits his ceiling (white, male, conservatives). After Labor Day a lot of PACs will start airing anti-Trump ads. Since the attacks won't be coming from a specific candidate (Graham, Paul, Perry, etc) it will be more difficult for Trump to counter attack the way he's used to.
Don't you have to publicly release your tax returns in order to fully run for POTUS? I see zero chance that Trump is willing to do that. He's just playing this for the publicity, and for his next reality TV show (So, You Want To Run For Office? catchphrase: "You're nominated!").
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Eephus
Footballguy
They went to zero in terms of $, not prospective voters. After NH, the cost of maintaining a national campaign will get much higher while contributions tend to gravitate toward the favorites. The same thing will happen this cycle
The Commish
Footballguy
Sorta....see Romney. What has to be released typically leaves more questions than answers. It's not a comprehensive list of documents by any means and I'm not sure they HAVE to release them at all.
The Man Who Met Andy Griffith
Footballguy
His ceiling = white, male conservatives? Hm, how can he possibly win the republican nomination if he can't appeal to the black lesbian bloc?
Also, I don't think you'll see super PACs opposing him, because whether or not the attacks are directed by their candidate, he will go scorched earth against them. See for example, the reports that he has vowed that if he goes down, he will take Bush with him (because Bush supposedly acted behind the scenes with Carlos Slim to get Univision to pass on Miss Universe).
Nobody wants to mess with the Donald. Say what you will about the man, but he's pretty shrewd at bullying people around, and the Republicans are pretty lousy at calling out bullies.
dschuler
Footballguy
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
Gotta have SOME females supporting you. I have no idea what his ceiling is, but you're kidding yourself if you thing he doesn't have one.
You could be right, in fact I hope you're right. I've heard a couple of different reports to the contrary - but I don't claim to have any inside info.
Fennis
Footballguy
Republicans are funny people.
In 2008, one of the biggest complaints about Obama was that he doesn't have enough experience, and then they immediately nominated a person for VP who had even less experience.
Republicans always decry celebrities and how much they hate celebrity and now they are going to nominate the biggest TV celebrity they can find.
In 2008, one of the biggest complaints about Obama was that he doesn't have enough experience, and then they immediately nominated a person for VP who had even less experience.
Republicans always decry celebrities and how much they hate celebrity and now they are going to nominate the biggest TV celebrity they can find.
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