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Official 2016 GOP thread: Is it really going to be Donald Trump?? (2 Viewers)

The reward for circling the wagons around Hillary is President Kasich repeals Obamacare.  And Sanders only has a very minor lead on Kasich too.   So, they could switch to Bernie and get beat anyway.  Although there is an impressively wide gap in the polls between Kasich and Hillary, possibly enough to make the switch.

 
I think moreso the Cruz people who have been doing an incredible job filling delegate slates. If this thing gets stolen from him at the convention for a Kasich type there's going to be fireworks 
Cruz isn't the frontrunner so I don't think that will be the case.

 
I think there will be a lot of unhappy people no matter who raises their arms in victory this November.  You've got very strong (and small) camps in Trump, Cruz, Kasich, Hillary, and Bernie.  But I don't sense any vitriol aimed at Kasich.  He'd probably cause the least fireworks.

 
I think there will be a lot of unhappy people no matter who raises their arms in victory this November.  You've got very strong (and small) camps in Trump, Cruz, Kasich, Hillary, and Bernie.  But I don't sense any vitriol aimed at Kasich.  He'd probably cause the least fireworks.
And he's probably the least likely to get a nomination too.

 
I think moreso the Cruz people who have been doing an incredible job filling delegate slates. If this thing gets stolen from him at the convention for a Kasich type there's going to be fireworks 
It's hypocritical of the Cruz camp to criticize the possibility of Kasich or Ryan when they want to win a convention fight even though they won't be the leader in popular vote or delegates.  Either the leader should win or it should be wide open.  To say, "Well it's ok to bypass the guy with the most for the guy in 2nd, but don't you dare go to the guy in 3rd" is disingenuous.

 
Good article here on the GOP convention and how the RNC is pretty much tone deaf concerning the nomination.

“The media has created the perception that the voters choose the nomination. That's the conflict here."  Replied Haugland: “Political parties choose their nominees, not the voters.”
 
The parties helped create that misconception.  Its why there are super delegates with the Democrats and tons of arcane rules on both sides.  I mean, if a party really wanted, they could void all the primary results at any point.  They're not at all bound by the results of the votes.  

 
Sanders is the least likely to get the nomination.  Hillary wrapped this up a long time ago.  Meanwhile, Kasich atleast has a shot during a contested convention.
Yeah I agree, Bernie's chances are equal to the chances of Hillary being indicted prior to the nomination.

 
Cruz' escuse about "New York Values"- "I was only talking about liberals"- is really weak. Also, visiting a matzoh factory? Really? 
It's a sharp play actually (and there was a good article explaining why) - the Republicans (rather inexplicably) in many states award some of their delegates by congressional district - and where this happens it is 3 per congressional district - no matter how much Republican support there is in the given Congressional District.  So a wealthy Republican district where there's a ton of regsitered Republicans is good for the same number of delegates as an inner-city Congressional District in the Bronx.  Cruz knows he is going to get clobbered in most of New York, but he's playing for delegates - and in a number of CDs around NYC there are enough Orthodox Jews that he might swing a few delegates his way by appealing to them.  He can court these voters without alienating his right-wing base as many of them support Israel (if only for the reason for beliefs having to do with the rapture coming sooner - really).

I've come around to the idea that they won't screw both Trump and Cruz and that the most likely result is Cruz on the 2nd ballot (and I still think Trump is absolutely done - those inclined to play prediction markets I'll note there is some good value out there).  Part of the reason is that Cruz has been so effective at playing the inside baseball game of slating delegates that I think that his people are more loyal to him than most may think (that is these non-Trump replacement delegates that will desert him after ballot one or two really are for Cruz). 

Side note - Cruz did make a blunder in Michigan by playing too hard for an outsized share of the delegates and lost the key committee spots as a result - so his game has not been flawless.

Nominating Cruz and having him fail hard isn't the worst outcome for the establishment GOP.  They'll be able to get a tighter grip on the reigns after the election in that case most likely.

As for other options, I really do think it's a poisoned chalice at this point - that grabbing this nomination is a career-ending kind of move.  Kind of amazed that Ryan wants to take it under those circumstances (but it's clear he does) - but this is a guy who REALLY hates campaigning it seems and thus a 3-month run for President surely has appeal to him because of that.  I think that the backlash would be worse within his party than he thinks.  Absent Ryan it's the kind of gig that would go to a guy who's career is basically over: Romney fits (though he's been clumsily obvious in his desire) but absent him it's tough to see who has the experience of running nationally that could pop into the gig.  I'm off of the idea that it'd be someone who hasn't even run at all - I do believe that's a bridge too far.  And it's largely on that basis that I think it ends up being Cruz.

-QG

 
Two quick thoughts on Zombie candidate Trump:

1) The way Cruz is beating him backwards and forwards in this delegate process shows just how excited Putin would be at having him be our President - We'd probably give Alaska back to Russia by the end of Trump's term after Putin shows the fine print of some deal Trump signed.

2) Honestly it all started to go wrong for Trump once Em's thread got demoted in the Trumposphere on this board.

-QG

 
Nominating Cruz and having him fail hard isn't the worst outcome for the establishment GOP.  They'll be able to get a tighter grip on the reigns after the election in that case most likely.
If Cruz is the nominee and Trump supporters stay home it could flip the Senate and tip the House closer to Democrats.  Good luck getting the Trump voters back after that.

 
If Cruz is the nominee and Trump supporters stay home it could flip the Senate and tip the House closer to Democrats.  Good luck getting the Trump voters back after that.
All in all, a huge positive for the country. Hope they feel that way for many elections to come. Overall voter intelligence will increase tenfold. 

 
He doesn't actually control whether it is or isn't somebody currently running, does he?
The RNC's stated position, which Priebus has been very clear on the past several weeks, is that the RNC has complete discretion as to which candidate it nominates, at least in the event there is not a majority on the first ballot.

 
Nominating Cruz and having him fail hard isn't the worst outcome for the establishment GOP.  They'll be able to get a tighter grip on the reigns after the election in that case most likely.
If Cruz is the nominee and Trump supporters stay home it could flip the Senate and tip the House closer to Democrats.  Good luck getting the Trump voters back after that.
On the other hand...  if Trump is the candidate many GOP voters stay home, thus possibly flipping the Senate and the house..  Good job GOP establishment :bye:

 
CletiusMaximus said:
The RNC's stated position, which Priebus has been very clear on the past several weeks, is that the RNC has complete discretion as to which candidate it nominates, at least in the event there is not a majority on the first ballot.
Talk about 'your vote doesn't matter'. Why would anyone be an R? Wake up losers and join NPA (No Party Affiliation).

 
Talk about 'your vote doesn't matter'. Why would anyone be an R? Wake up losers and join NPA (No Party Affiliation).
There's nothing out of the ordinary about it.  Usually, delegates are bound ONLY for the first ballot.  After that, they can switch.  It would be stupid not to, if you think about it.   if they couldn't switch their vote, it would actually be impossible to nominate anyone.

 
There's nothing out of the ordinary about it.  Usually, delegates are bound ONLY for the first ballot.  After that, they can switch.  It would be stupid not to, if you think about it.   if they couldn't switch their vote, it would actually be impossible to nominate anyone.
The party is a total joke. One guy can get the majority of votes but some elite hammerheads can deny the people their choice.

 
Kasich on CNN town hall making his case.   " Our goal is to beat Clinton in the Fall, right?"

Not sure why this falls on deaf ears. Votes for Trump and Cruz are votes for Clinton. 

Kasich's wife ain't too shabby, BTW.    

 
Question: does Marco Rubio retain any control over his delegates? Or are they completely free to do as they will? 
It's state by state. There are some states where the delegates are still bound (even through 2 or 3 rounds of voting) if the candidate merely "suspends" his campaign, as Rubio did, rather than end it.

 
How do they handle vp in an open convention?
Technically it's the same as a regular (predetermined) convention. It's a vote by the delegates. It's just that traditionally the delegates vote for their nominees choice. In an open/contested convention it could be different.

 
culdeus said:
How do they handle vp in an open convention?
It likely depends on how things play out.

Sometimes it is part of a package deal with the nominee when the deal is struck, so that enough factions of a party might be appeased.

Other times a nominee may throw it open to the delegation to choose a nominee themselves.  Adlai Stevenson did this in 1956 - where JFK brilliantly ran a campaign to do well enough to get his name out there but not so well as to actually get the VP nomination. 

-QG

 
Ryan officially going to pull out of the running today at a press conference.  Clearly he realized that being nominated would be way too poisoned a chalice and probably fatal to his political career.  I think this bumps the odds of it being Cruz that much more. 

-QG

 
Clearly he realized that being nominated would be way too poisoned a chalice and probably fatal to his political career. 

-QG
I thought that was his thing?

Seriously, not only is he not running, he also made a case (that's tough to argue with) that the nominee should be someone actually running. Probably the first presidential race where the VP spot was decided first. Cruz/Ryan 16

 
This won't end well...




Reince Priebus (@Reince)


4/12/16, 10:18 PM
Nomination process known for a year + beyond. It's the responsibility of the campaigns to understand it. Complaints now? Give us all a break
That can be interpreted a number of ways. People in both the Trump and Cruz camps are perfectly fine with "Rule 40" staying just like it is (a candidate needs to win at least 8 states to be on the convention ballot) and are saying things like "Don't change the rules during the game". 

 
Yeah his website absolutely screams I will never be president even if I am the last man in the world:

http://www.speaker.gov

didnt he make the same declarations about never being speaker of the house?
Yep.  Said it was a good job for an "empty nester."   

He also said he wasn't going to be Mitt Romney's running mate in 2012. 

If you're a trend trader, you use this "I'm not interested" as a strong buy signal.   

 
Oh I think Ryan totally wants to be President.  I'm just of the opinion that he has made the calculation that taking the nomination under these kinds of circumstances would not lead to a victory for him in November and probably would kill his political career going forward.

-QG

 
As much as I can't stand him and as dangerously crazy as I think he is, things have set up better for Cruz than I ever would have thought possible.

Huckabee is no factor. I can't conceive of Carson being able to put together the kind of campaign necessary. But Cruz... Cruz just might - he certainly enjoys campaigning from what I watched on c-span today. Dunno what his odds are in the futures market for the nomination but he's a darkhorse with a shot depending on how the whole Trump thing plays out.

The thing about the Trump vote if he collapses is:

1) There's no guarantee that it'll all shift to one of the other crazies. Trump's an candidate that people put their own views onto b/c he says so little.

2) They could well just stay home.

-QG
Tooting my own horn :)

:bowtie:

-QG

 
Tooting my own horn :)

:bowtie:

-QG
Yeah, that was really good stuff, prescient call there.

I think people, whether we/they like him or not, maybe somewhat like Obama in 08, have to hand it to Cruz and his team for fording through the waters of the primaries, caucuses and state conventions and (maybe) withstanding the onslaught of Trump over Super Tuesday when all looked bleak, something which Hillary herself and her Clinton machine could not do. He's really done a hell of a job. I never would have thought he would get this far.

 
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Yeah, that was really good stuff, prescient call there.

I think people, whether they like him or not, maybe somewhat like Obama in 08, whatever we/anyone think of him, have to hand it to Cruz and his team for fording through the waters of the primaries, caucuses and state conventions and (maybe) withstanding the onslaught of Trump over Super Tuesday when all looked bleak, something which Hillary herself and her Clinton machine could not do. He's really done a hell of a job. I never would have thought he would get this far.
If I had to pick one of the 22 candidates who ran/are running for President to run a campaign for me (politics aside) I would have to pick Cruz.

-QG

 
Is this a comment to Trump or the electorate?  If it's the latter, that guy is politically dumber than Trump and I didn't think that was possible.
It was directed at Trump and his team who had just blasted something about the system being 'rigged'.
Then he's right.  However, Trump is going to crucify him with it and throw some more kerosene on the fire and it will work very well.

 
Mark Murray Verified account @mmurraypolitics


Per natl NBC/WSJ poll:

Clinton 50, Trump 39

Clinton 46, Cruz 44

Sanders 52, Cruz 40

Kasich 51, Clinton 39

Ryan 45, Clinton 44

I guess we all know Kasich and Sanders do well if they break into the open, but few realize how decently Cruz has been polling vs Hillary.

-eta - also, Ryan on the board and opens a favorite.
 
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