***Official 2016 Stanley Cup Playoffs thread : Pens raise the cup for 4th time in franchise history*** (1 Viewer)

[gianmarco]

Standings are an inherently flawed way of ranking teams when you have a system that awards 3 points in some games but 2 points in others and also gives an extra point to a team that wins in a shootout.

Despite all that, are you really saying a team with 103 points is significantly better than another team with 103 points?

throw LA, ANA, DAL, STL, and CHI in a bucket and it's hard to find much to differentiate them in terms of team strength this year. All are very very good teams. San Jose wasn't too far off either.

Of course those teams are all very good and very close.  But if we're not using standings and points to determine seeding, then what's the point?  What are we going to use?  The college bowl system and we vote?  The fact is that the standings ARE used to rank and order the teams.  And based on those points, the top 2 teams in each conference are facing each other in the 2nd round. 

Either find another way to seed the teams not using the points (good luck with that) or fix the way the seeds are scheduled against each other (i.e. lose the divisions) so that you don't have that happen.

It's not much different than saying that a 99 win team isn't significantly worse than a 100 win team in baseball.  Of course they are all about the same.  Most playoff teams in all sports usually have very little differentiating them.  But in the end, that's how the final standings are determined and the seeding is and should be based off of that. 

 

[Bill Brasky]

Of course those teams are all very good and very close.  But if we're not using standings and points to determine seeding, then what's the point?  What are we going to use?  The college bowl system and we vote?  The fact is that the standings ARE used to rank and order the teams.  And based on those points, the top 2 teams in each conference are facing each other in the 2nd round. 

Either find another way to seed the teams not using the points (good luck with that) or fix the way the seeds are scheduled against each other (i.e. lose the divisions) so that you don't have that happen.

It's not much different than saying that a 99 win team isn't significantly worse than a 100 win team in baseball.  Of course they are all about the same.  Most playoff teams in all sports usually have very little differentiating them.  But in the end, that's how the final standings are determined and the seeding is and should be based off of that. 

So then it's not some big advantage like you said in your original post?

 

[Bill Brasky]

NHL did reseeding until a couple years ago.  They wanted to make money off brackets and said it was for rivalries.  The NHL does lots of dumb stuff.  It doesn't matter much this year when there are 7 good teams in the West.

 

[gianmarco]

So then it's not some big advantage like you said in your original post?

Link to where I said it's some big advantage?  I'll help you with my original post:

Yeah, I hate it.  With 8 teams playing in the Western Conference, the Blues, who finished 2nd in the standings in the Western Conference start off with the 3rd ranked team in the West and now draw the #1 ranked team in the West. 

I said the seeding is stupid and I still say so

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Of course those teams are all very good and very close.  But if we're not using standings and points to determine seeding, then what's the point?  What are we going to use?  The college bowl system and we vote?  The fact is that the standings ARE used to rank and order the teams.  And based on those points, the top 2 teams in each conference are facing each other in the 2nd round. 

Either find another way to seed the teams not using the points (good luck with that) or fix the way the seeds are scheduled against each other (i.e. lose the divisions) so that you don't have that happen.

It's not much different than saying that a 99 win team isn't significantly worse than a 100 win team in baseball.  Of course they are all about the same.  Most playoff teams in all sports usually have very little differentiating them.  But in the end, that's how the final standings are determined and the seeding is and should be based off of that. 

the NHL is dumb and does a lot of dumb things. I thought this was understood by hockey fans.

this is a dumb way of doing things, but they did it to spice up division rivalries. if you can't get out of your own division, you don't belong in the conference finals I guess.

 

[RUSF18]

NHL did reseeding until a couple years ago.  They wanted to make money off brackets and said it was for rivalries.  The NHL does lots of dumb stuff.  It doesn't matter much this year when there are 7 good teams in the West.

Couldn't they make money off brackets by just sticking with a conventional format and not reseeding?

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

speaking of dumb, didn't MLB have the #2 and #3 teams in baseball last year play each other in a 1-game wildcard matchup? And then the winner got to play the #1 team in the first round?

 

[Bill Brasky]

ETA--And a team like the Predators, who are in the same division as the Blues, as a result of finishing 4th instead of 2nd, get to play a worse overall team in both the 1st round as well as the 2nd round (if they were to advance).  They actually get rewarded for being ####tier.

Link for you.

What a reward

 

[gianmarco]

the NHL is dumb and does a lot of dumb things. I thought this was understood by hockey fans.

this is a dumb way of doing things, but they did it to spice up division rivalries. if you can't get out of your own division, you don't belong in the conference finals I guess.

Exactly. I'm just affirming that I think it's dumb. It's being reinforced moreso this year with those two matchups in each conference. 

 

[Bill Brasky]

Couldn't they make money off brackets by just sticking with a conventional format and not reseeding?

Because you can still get the same thing that's being complained about if there is an "upset"?

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Link for you.

What a reward

Islanders got rewarded. Florida/Tampa looks a lot better than Pittsburgh/Washington.

 

[gianmarco]

Link for you.

What a reward

Not seeing anything about it being some big advantage. Is a lower team not facing lower ranked teams in each round? 

Love the faux outrage for stating the obvious.  Troll on.

 

[Bill Brasky]

Not seeing anything about it being some big advantage. Is a lower team not facing lower ranked teams in each round? 

Love the faux outrage for stating the obvious.  Troll on.

then why complain in the first place?  Blues get a matchup where they are favored without home ice and the NHL is screwing them because of regular season point totals?  Nashville is getting "rewarded for being ####tier" by getting the Ducks and potentially the Sharks?

 

[JaxBill]

Nice Blues fans beside and behind and my wife even made a new Facebook friend.   He's a master gardener who encouraged my wife to visit the botanical garden which is where we are now.  

i did hedge

Holy Horticulturalists, Batman!

 

[RUSF18]

Because you can still get the same thing that's being complained about if there is an "upset"?

I think 1 having to play 4 while 3 gets to play 7 isn't quite the same as 1v2 and 4v7 or whatever we have now. 

 

[gianmarco]

then why complain in the first place?  Blues get a matchup where they are favored without home ice and the NHL is screwing them because of regular season point totals?  Nashville is getting "rewarded for being ####tier" by getting the Ducks and potentially the Sharks?

You're thinking that I'm complaining about this as a Blues fan.  I'm not at all.  I actually don't think it matters from a standpoint of them advancing or not.  I'm complaining as a fan of common sense.  That's why I'm pointing to the Eastern Conference as well and saying it's stupid how the NHL does this. 

I was using the Blues because, from a points/standings standpoint, they face the #1 and #3 teams while being the #2 team.  It's not some huge disadvantage.  I'm actually glad they get Dallas first.  But from a fan of sports in general, I don't ever think it's a good thing to have the top 2 teams face off in the 2nd round of the playoffs even if it benefits my team. 

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Man Discovers Hockey, Loves It



 

Tony X. ‎@soIoucity


White people been hiding hockey from us for years bruh. This #### lit

 

[gianmarco]

Man Discovers Hockey, Loves It



 

 

[kupcho1]

Man Discovers Hockey, Loves It



 

 

[pats3in4]

Man Discovers Hockey, Loves It



 

Clark Griswold (Blackhawks fan): "Excuse me, could you please tell me how to get back on the expressway?

Tony X (new Blues fan): "Hey #### yo mama!"

Clark Griswold: "Thank you very much."

 

[Capella]

As trick daddy says, #### the other side. 

Go Bolts ️️

 

[Bill Brasky]

You're thinking that I'm complaining about this as a Blues fan.  I'm not at all.  I actually don't think it matters from a standpoint of them advancing or not.  I'm complaining as a fan of common sense.  That's why I'm pointing to the Eastern Conference as well and saying it's stupid how the NHL does this. 

I was using the Blues because, from a points/standings standpoint, they face the #1 and #3 teams while being the #2 team.  It's not some huge disadvantage.  I'm actually glad they get Dallas first.  But from a fan of sports in general, I don't ever think it's a good thing to have the top 2 teams face off in the 2nd round of the playoffs even if it benefits my team. 

Okay, go Blues then :highfive:

 

[The_Man]

the NHL is dumb and does a lot of dumb things. I thought this was understood by hockey fans.

this is a dumb way of doing things, but they did it to spice up division rivalries. if you can't get out of your own division, you don't belong in the conference finals I guess.

Yes, who doesn't love that classic Tampa-Isles division rivalry?

Don't mind me, I'm just bitter about the Caps' impending second round doom

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Yes, who doesn't love that classic Tampa-Isles division rivalry?

well, it should have been Florida. This Islanders team is not very good.

 

[Dickie Dunn]

Tough run for Philly. Already bounced from the playoffs, and Brayden Schenn still gets suspended for three games.

 

[Insein]

Tough run for Philly. Already bounced from the playoffs, and Brayden Schenn still gets suspended for three games.

Another fine decree from the ever consistent NHL discipline office. Yet not even a hearing for Chimera trying to kill Voracek into the boards.

 

[sporthenry]

Another fine decree from the ever consistent NHL discipline office. Yet not even a hearing for Chimera trying to kill Voracek into the boards.

Or attempted slew foot by Ovie.  Guess Hakstol didn't send enough videos into the DOPeS. 

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

I like the division playoff format. More like it was back in the day

 

[Christo]

GO CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS!

 

[St. Louis Bob]

All in all fun time in St. Louis. Only negative (apart from the outcome) was the ######## in front of me who kept getting in my face and blocking the exit for other fans.  He was getting shut down by Blues fans by the third.  Nice Blues fans beside and behind and my wife even made a new Facebook friend.   He's a master gardener who encouraged my wife to visit the botanical garden which is where we are now.  

i did hedge but obviously not enough given the outcome. Sucks to be done so early in the playoffs. 

Love the botanical garden.

LMFAO @ the thread title

 

[ItsOnlytheRiver]

So if a series shifts to Nashville they get early start priority over STL even though the tv market they are playing would be better served to have a late start? Doesn't make any sense. 

 

[Capella]

So if a series shifts to Nashville they get early start priority over STL even though the tv market they are playing would be better served to have a late start? Doesn't make any sense. 

How would their tv market be better served to have a late start? They got royally screwed with the start times in this series.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

How would their tv market be better served to have a late start? They got royally screwed with the start times in this series.

I think he means they will be playing a West Coast team so the fans in those cities would prefer the later start time. Not an issue for STL vs DAL.

Was it publicized that Nashville series would get early start priority? Seems weird.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/penguins--ken-holland-and-conspiracy-theories--puck-daddy-countdown-134903137.html

8. Possibly feuding with your best player

Okay maybe you say that there was just no way to have gotten Vladimir Tarasenko onto the ice for that power play over the weekend. It's almost a buyable argument. You can almost see where Ken Hitchcock was coming from with that. Maybe. Sorta. If you squint at it.

But in your critical Game 7, at home, against the team that made a nasty habit of eliminating you from the playoffs the last few years, you only play him 14:31? That was just eighth among Blues forwards, and didn't even come close to meeting the team-leading 22:17 from David Backes. And just from looking around the morning after, it doesn't seem like too many people had questions for Hitchcock about it. Couldn't find a single quote about it.

Yeah they won, slayed the dragon, all that stuff, but this is quickly becoming an issue large enough that it needs to be addressed. There was no reason to rest the guy; in a Game 7, you empty the tanks.

Again, you could explain away the weird TOI situation in Game 6, because while he didn't get out on the power play, the Blues only had one of those, and Tarasenko led the team in time at 5-on-5. But again, in Game 7 he only got 13:35 at full strength, and that was just fifth. It doesn't begin to make sense if you're trying to win a one-off. Period.

And honestly, it's just not good coaching either way.

how has the media in St. Louis not pushed for more of an explanation on this?

 

[Hawks64]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/penguins--ken-holland-and-conspiracy-theories--puck-daddy-countdown-134903137.html

how has the media in St. Louis not pushed for more of an explanation on this?

They knocked their biggest rival out of the playoffs?

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

They knocked their biggest rival out of the playoffs?

so, the media doesn't have to do their job?

 

[Hawks64]

so, the media doesn't have to do their job?

Think it's just overshadowed right now, if the TOI stays the same against the Stars I would imagine it would be a bigger deal.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Think it's just overshadowed right now, if the TOI stays the same against the Stars I would imagine it would be a bigger deal.

he led the team in even strength time in game 6, but complained about not getting PP time (on their 1 PP of the game). Then he ranks 8th among Blues forwards in ice time for game 7?

Weird time to punish your best player. Feels like this should get a lot more attention.

 

[gianmarco]

We've been hearing it a lot here although it quieted down just a little after the win mostly because they were talking about the win.  I'm sure we're going to start hearing much more about it again because it's mind-boggling awful coaching.

 

[Hawks64]

he led the team in even strength time in game 6, but complained about not getting PP time (on their 1 PP of the game). Then he ranks 8th among Blues forwards in ice time for game 7?

Weird time to punish your best player. Feels like this should get a lot more attention.

Agreed, he was key in that series especially early on. As a fan of theirs I would be pretty upset about it, could have cost them Game 7.

 

[Sheriff66]

My apologies for being late on this...

1975 CRYER SCUM

 

[Sheriff66]

Rags were an embarrassment,  Queen Henry is done, Eric Staal belongs on a milk carton. Pens are coming Pukevechkin and Co.

 

[Copeman]

 

[Statcruncher]

Sheriff's back!

 

[Spin]

I think he means they will be playing a West Coast team so the fans in those cities would prefer the later start time. Not an issue for STL vs DAL.

Was it publicized that Nashville series would get early start priority? Seems weird.

9 pm local time start tonight for game 7.  Brutal.

 

[The_Man]

OK, I enjoyed this a lot:

Guy discovers hockey for the first time, live tweets Game 7 of Chicago-St. Louis

Very cool that the Blues are hooking him up with tickets for Game 3

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

OK, I enjoyed this a lot:

Guy discovers hockey for the first time, live tweets Game 7 of Chicago-St. Louis

Very cool that the Blues are hooking him up with tickets for Game 3

I like Hondas too

 

[Statcruncher]

OK, I enjoyed this a lot:

Guy discovers hockey for the first time, live tweets Game 7 of Chicago-St. Louis

Very cool that the Blues are hooking him up with tickets for Game 3

So if you were to rank the Blues fans by hockey knowledge, this guy's gotta be in the top 10% right?

 

[E Street Brat]

I like Hondas too

Kia is the new Honda

 

[Bill Brasky]

I think the Isles make this a series.  I'll say Tampa in 7.