*Official 2020 Philadelphia Eagles Thread* Humanity will never recover from the most horrible event to happen in the last 100 years: Doug Pederson pla (1 Viewer)

[Deamon]

I just want to mention that this is a fantastic thread title.  Carry on.  

@The Noid has easily been the best thing about this Eagles season.  Came outta nowhere to become the boards' best thread title-maker (Sorry @Capella, you're close with the NBA one but it doesn't get updated enough)

@Insein you've done a great job with it during the odd numbered years, but do we go with new young talent over the proven name and loyalty?  We have another Alshon/Fulgham and Peters/Mailata situation on our hands here fellas.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Here’s another one to drop in the dysfunction box:

D. Pederson on Nov. 22: "If you get to that spot where you don't start (Wentz) or you bench him, I think you're sending the wrong message to your football team that this season is over, and that's a bad message. We have to work through this."

Kelce: “This is ultimately a culmination of a lot of failures on offense...This comes down to more of a failure of every position including coaches, to facilitate a functioning offense. That’s the biggest story here, not that Jalen Hurts is picked and there was some sort of internal battle and struggle going on with Carson Wentz. I don’t buy that.”

Fletcher Cox about liking a Tweet that C. Wentz should be the starter: "My tweet is my tweet and I stand with it."

Cox: "Carson, he's my best friend, he's my guy. I've always had his back since Day 1. Jalen, he's my teammate also. You've got to support whoever's in there."

The below is from Les Bowen and on this day, it’s 100% that Doug lost the locker room and is gone. It’s a damn shame it came to this after just 3 years. I never saw it heading this way and I hope we get back on track in 2021

“Rookie receivers seem to be like "Alriiight, Hurts, our guy," while it's clear Kelce & Cox (and probably other vets) feel Wentz is being scapegoated. Of course, everyone says they'll rally behind Hurts. But it isn't like changing the air freshener hanging from the rearview mirror”

 

[Insein]

@The Noid has easily been the best thing about this Eagles season.  Came outta nowhere to become the boards' best thread title-maker (Sorry @Capella, you're close with the NBA one but it doesn't get updated enough)

@Insein you've done a great job with it during the odd numbered years, but do we go with new young talent over the proven name and loyalty?  We have another Alshon/Fulgham and Peters/Mailata situation on our hands here fellas.

I'm fine with it. Like the Sunday game threads, I did it mostly because others wouldn't.

 

[Deamon]

The below is from Les Bowen and on this day, it’s 100% that Doug lost the locker room and is gone. It’s a damn shame it came to this after just 3 years. I never saw it heading this way and I hope we get back on track in 2021

“Rookie receivers seem to be like "Alriiight, Hurts, our guy," while it's clear Kelce & Cox (and probably other vets) feel Wentz is being scapegoated. Of course, everyone says they'll rally behind Hurts. But it isn't like changing the air freshener hanging from the rearview mirror”

Yikes.  All this stuff is not good. 

Doug reminds me a lot of Anthony Lynn right now.  Great guy, really good leader, but just in way over his head.  And spiraling downwards fast.

 

[Insein]

Yikes.  All this stuff is not good. 

Doug reminds me a lot of Anthony Lynn right now.  Great guy, really good leader, but just in way over his head.  And spiraling downwards fast.

Yep. The most annoying thing is that everyone who has hated Doug will claim victory saying they were right all along. I still think he's a good coach. This situation just got way out of control because of a bunch of little mistakes from himself and from others. It's never one moment to look back and say "that was the breaking point". It was just a slow death by a thousand paper cuts.

 

[unckeyherb]

over/under on rushes this weekend?  24.5?

over/under on times Hurts is rolled out of the pocket?  11.5?

 

[Long Ball Larry]

This is from a mike sando article on the athletic:

“The Eagles were facing a roster reckoning even if Wentz and the offense had functioned at a high level this season, and even if the salary cap were expected to expand instead of contract. A cap manager from another team struggled to find enough players to release for Philly to comply with the projected $175 million cap for next season.

“Holy ####,” the cap manager said at one point.

“They are screwed in general,” he said a few moments later.

Finally: “This is a bear.”

“I would advocate tearing it all down and starting over,” a top exec from another team said.”

 

[Insein]

over/under on rushes this weekend?  24.5?

over/under on times Hurts is rolled out of the pocket?  11.5?

Over on both. Which will only infuriate me more. 

 

[Insein]

I honestly think that everyone is emotional right now during the season. Once the season is done, Lurie will take a step back and look at the big picture. He's going to see that things were not good and can go worse but he's got a coach and a GM that won him a Super bowl 3 years ago. He's got a QB that has had 4 good to great years and 1 really bad one. That the coach, GM and QB are all having their worst years in the same year will probably play into his ultimate decision. I see Lurie giving Doug and Howie at least one more year to fix this and depending on the path at the end of 2021 will decide their fate with the team. I think Carson will get the chance to start next year to prove 2020 was an outlier and that he can improve. 

Now all bets are off if Hurts reels off 4 straight wins and they take the division but I think Lurie will not be making major changes this off season.

 

[Ash]

I honestly think that everyone is emotional right now during the season. Once the season is done, Lurie will take a step back and look at the big picture. He's going to see that things were not good and can go worse but he's got a coach and a GM that won him a Super bowl 3 years ago. He's got a QB that has had 4 good to great years and 1 really bad one. That the coach, GM and QB are all having their worst years in the same year will probably play into his ultimate decision. I see Lurie giving Doug and Howie at least one more year to fix this and depending on the path at the end of 2021 will decide their fate with the team. I think Carson will get the chance to start next year to prove 2020 was an outlier and that he can improve. 

Now all bets are off if Hurts reels off 4 straight wins and they take the division but I think Lurie will not be making major changes this off season.

I think the best path for the Eagles to be a good team again 2 yrs from now is to re-establish Wentz as a Top 10 QB.  That's more likely to happen than you get there with Hurts or the #3 QB off the board in the draft.  So, if you're trying to reverse engineer from that, how could it happen?  I really struggle to see that happening with Wentz if Howie and Doug are both back.

I think Doug has a few problems to work out if he stays. He has allowed too many people (vet players including Wentz, and coaches) to perform poorly without consequence.  He doesn't set and hold people to high standards.

The second is how to reverse the downward trend in Wentz play since 2017.  What's going to change in the coaching structure or process that we can expect different results?  A follow on from that is how to rebuild the relationship?  Wentz has to feel betrayed and like he's being scapegoated, and that comes on the back of the Hurts pick, keeping Jeffrey around after trashing him to Josina Anderson in successive years.  Can't imagine Wentz feels like the Eagles have his back right now.  Again, what changes that will help with rebuilding that?

Another problem is the toxic relationship between the front office and the coaching staff.  Doug being forced to fire assistants, Howie providing a list of coaches for Doug to interview from and make hires.  I'm not convinced Doug wants to stay.

It's hard to see Wentz rebounding without making a clean break with the current coaching staff, and having a new set of coaches to come in, wipe last year away and move forwards.  It's not guaranteed this works, but it think it's the only way it can work.

I've already made the case for Howie to go, but I no longer see how the situation with Pederson is salvageable either.  

Looking at likely coaching vacancies next year we have:

Jets, Jaguars, Atlanta, Houston, Detroit, Chargers, Eagles.  I'd rank them like this:

1. Chargers - Herbert, Keenan Allen, some good pieces on defense and a solid FO in place.  Tough division, but this team is pretty well placed for a quick rebound.
   
2. Jets - Lots of draft capital and Trevor Lawrence.  
   
3. Houston - mostly because of Deshaun Watson, FO situation is dicey if they retain Jack Easterby.
   
4. Jaguars - #2 pick, lots of draft capital.
   
5. Atlanta / Detroit - kind of neutral really. 
   
6. Eagles - Lurie has been generally regarded I think as a good owner, but they are cap strapped, hampered by incoming dead money and bad contracts.  Most of the talent is older and declining, with few rising players, and then there's the QB situation.
   

Edit to add:  Both Wentz and Hurts can't come back next year.  You have to pick one and move the other, end of story.

 

[babydemon90]

I think there's a greater chance they both come back next year then one of them leaving.

That said, I also think there is very little chance of 'fixing' Wentz. It's possible, but man - his mechanics and vision just seem so broken.

 

[babydemon90]

This is from a mike sando article on the athletic:

“The Eagles were facing a roster reckoning even if Wentz and the offense had functioned at a high level this season, and even if the salary cap were expected to expand instead of contract. A cap manager from another team struggled to find enough players to release for Philly to comply with the projected $175 million cap for next season.

“Holy ####,” the cap manager said at one point.

“They are screwed in general,” he said a few moments later.

Finally: “This is a bear.”

“I would advocate tearing it all down and starting over,” a top exec from another team said.”

Yep. You are going to see players leave you would rather we keep, because the way Howie structured the cap we CAN'T get out easily.  Now - they can probably continue to kick the can and extend and restructure players, convert more base salary to bonus money - which is what we keep doing, and why we have all this dead weight. The only way really out is to bite the bullet and purge. It will suck, we will suck. We'll need 4th and 5th rounders in key roles. It won't be pretty - but in 3 years, we can recover.  If we try and extend this thing, it's going to be a nightmare. 

 

[DJackson10]

I shockingly read this post.

I am so curious what was said in that handshake with Wentz, especially since Rodgers wants to keep it private.  And because he is going through the same thing, but of course it went the complete opposite way with him.  I wonder if Rodgers told him to keep his head up, or told him how to overcome and thrive from a fire under your ###, or how to get your coach fired lol. 

To your last point, I love Rodgers but he is one of the biggest ##### out there. 

I'd take Rodgers as my teammate every time over Brady though. Rodgers is just more of a team player where Brady seems like a Company yes man who would snitch on you the minute you stopped drinking the Kool Aid. 

 

[DJackson10]

Total QB Hits Allowed Through Week 13:

GB: 36
ARI: 37
CLE: 39
LV: 43
IND: 45
PIT: 47
NO: 48
BAL: 50
LAR: 53
CAR: 54
NE: 55
KC: 57
MIA: 61
TEN: 62
BUF: 63
JAX: 67
DET: 72
HOU: 73
TB: 75
DAL: 78
ATL, MIN: 83
CHI, DEN, NYG: 84
NYJ: 86
SF, WAS: 88
LAC: 91
SEA: 99
CIN: 105
PHI: 123

QB Hits Allowed In Week 13:

BAL: 0
CLE: 1
MIA, NE, PIT: 2
BUF, CHI, DET, NO: 3
ARI, DEN, KC, NYG: 4
DAL, IND, TEN: 5
GB, LAR, LV: 6
JAX, NYJ, SF: 7
ATL, HOU: 8
SEA, WAS: 10
CIN, LAC: 11
PHI: 12
MIN: 14

Notes:

-Every team has now officially had a bye week.

-Browns OLine is amazing

-Bengals/Chargers OLines are polar opposites

-Jalen Hurts and the Eagles are going against the team that has produced the fourth most QB hits through week 13.

-Vikings OLine was brutal on Sunday.

I think Hurts playing now is the right decision but my absolute fear is with this Oline we are going to get this guy David Carr'd 

 

[DJackson10]

Sat through the whole game of All 22 this afternoon.  Some thoughts.

After watching that, I’m less critical of the scheme / play calling than I had been.  They’re trying to make things easy for Wentz to make the right choices, there are half field reads, there are some of the type of schemed throws I’ve been looking for.  An example is the long play to Goedert.  To me that looked like a schemed throw for Hightower.  It was 13 personnel, play fake left, boot right with Hightower coming in motion and running to the flat.  They got a matchup with OLB Preston Smith (based on the 3 TE formation prolly).  If Wentz takes that easy, safe throw, it’s a 15 yard gain min, he had plenty of room to get outside and up the sideline.  For some baffling reason, Wentz doesn’t make the throw.  It’s just blind luck the guy covering Goedert fell down and he was running free.  He was not “schemed open” as I’ve seen in some reports.

You would have noticed in this game, the Packers having great success with crossers running away from man coverage.  Where are those routes for us?  Otherwise, there are guys open often enough.  Wentz’s mechanics are a hot mess, probably worse than his rookie year.  He’s overstriding and not pointing his lead foot, which causes poor accuracy and loss of velocity on the ball.  Mentally, he just seems not to trust what he sees, and his confidence is shot.  His eyes are dropping in the pocket under pressure and he’s never had that problem before.

Clearly, this is Press Taylor’s failure, but it ultimately falls on Doug to resolve if Taylor isn’t doing his job well.  I wonder how coachable Wentz is though?  Is Taylor less coach, more sidekick?  You read things about how they’re “friends”, which I think is a bad dynamic.

Defensively there was one I thought was kind of funny, on the long TD to the TE.  Single high, man outside, Mills lined up over the TE, but not sure if he had man or if Singleton was supposed to pick him up since he released inside.  Robey-Coleman was matched up on Adams in the slot, then NRC fell down when Adams made his break.  McLeod hit the panic button *hard* and tore off right to pick up Adams while the TE is running free to the EZ the other direction.  2020 man, what do you do?

Now, Hurts.  He made 2 nice throws, but they were simple reads.  A fade against press man and a guy running to the right EZ sideline after he escapes to the right.  I’d *almost* call that one a coverage bust, looked like quarters (disclaimer, with match rules etc, you can never really be sure), but the two deep defenders on the right didn’t get enough depth and Ward got behind them.  The Packers seemed to back off into softer zone coverages a bit then (after the fade to Reagor), they did have a 20 point lead in the 4th qtr against a rookie QB.

On several other plays when Hurts took off and ran (and had some nice gains, sure), there were *multiple* open targets downfield.  He sees the field poorly.  He’s more accurate than Wentz right now, and more likely to pull the trigger on time if the first read is there (like Reagor on the fade).  

Not sure if the play was specifically in for him, but Scott’s long run that got called back was an RPO.  Right side pass blocking, left side run blocking.

Hurts seems like an awesome dude, great character but he has a slow release and questionable arm strength IMO and doesn’t read the field well at all.  Based on today, but also his rep out of college I don’t think his prospects are good as a starter.  I’m predicting a pretty rough game against NO.

Reagor had a really nice post route early on.  Man against Alexander with inside technique, he burst out of his break and crossed his face and I was thinking it was a TD miss, but Alexander did just an awesome job turning his feet to stay over the top of it without losing a step.  Still, that could go for a TD against 80% of corners in the NFL.  The pick should have been Jefferson, but Reagor is quietly doing some nice things as a WR.  Why the actual #### they are scheming catches for Greg Ward is beyond me.  He should never be higher than 3rd read.  Literally any other target (besides Ertz) is more likely to do something after the catch than Ward.

Nice analysis there Ash. Use to have a guy on my old board do these but I always wondered where you got the ALL22 at? Is it from a Subscription service, certain website etc? always wanted to do more with these 

 

[DJackson10]

And will Doug have packages ready for Wentz to come in and hand the ball off?

Dude I was just thinking of that today!!! I chuckled when I thought it'd be hilarious and so 2020 if Doug had Wentz come in on packages for Hurts. 

 

[DJackson10]

The Hurts pick gets all the publicity but taking a guy like Thorson, when you had Wentz, Foles and like 4-5 total picks is absolutely asinine. At BEST you're drafting someone who will be inactive every week for a year. I swear the Hurts pick was the "I'll show them" for all the crap he took about picking Thorson

To be fair they wanted Easton Stick. Apparently Stick is good friends with Wentz and they were hoping to Develop Stick and turn him into Wentz's back up for the long term. Stick was then taken right before the Eagles picked by the Chargers after the Eagles moved back a few picks from their pick. Had the Eagles stayed at their spot I believe Stick would've been drafted here and not Thorson. 

 

[DJackson10]

Basically

- You have to get a new HC who can fix/work with Wentz and move on from Doug

- Can't end up like Chicago with both QB's constantly looking over their shoulder, so if new HC likes Wentz move Hurts, if new likes Hurts you have to move Wentz

- Team has constantly chosen the middle path ie rebuilding while paying vets and never wanting to commit to one side or the other

- Always worried about getting rid of guys that could be an unpopular move

A few other things Im forgetting as well but this was after the Marks "So call in and tell us who you want and who has to go" type of speech prior to the break.  I was kind of shocked with Marks though, he was admit about keeping Wentz.  I thought he'd take the other stance.

Also, I posted the Kelce comments above.  Maybe Im reading too much into it but that sounds pretty big to me with the way he went after the coaches.

Kelce is going to speak his mind no matter what. He loves Carson like a brother. Also Fletcher Cox got questioned today about liking a tweet about Wentz shouldn't be benched. There's obviously a lot of guys who still support Wentz though which is good for Carson not sure how good that is for Hurts though

 

[Ash]

Nice analysis there Ash. Use to have a guy on my old board do these but I always wondered where you got the ALL22 at? Is it from a Subscription service, certain website etc? always wanted to do more with these 

Being outside the US I have a Gamepass subscription to watch the games, All 22 is part of that. 

 

[DJackson10]

Yep. The most annoying thing is that everyone who has hated Doug will claim victory saying they were right all along. I still think he's a good coach. This situation just got way out of control because of a bunch of little mistakes from himself and from others. It's never one moment to look back and say "that was the breaking point". It was just a slow death by a thousand paper cuts.

Same as the Wentz haters if the team gets rid of him 

 

[unckeyherb]

Over on both. Which will only infuriate me more. 

Agreed

 

[need2know]

Hurts beats the saints and is the qb of the future

 

[Insein]

I actually think the Eagles cover this week. 7.5 is a lot for a Saints team who's offense is built around running right now. Probably something like 23-16 Saints.

 

[unckeyherb]

If hurts fails over the next few weeks then Wentz will be the starter week one next year.  Hurts doing well makes this whole situation untenable.  I fully expect Pederson to make the offensive revisions that would have helped Wentz (bootlegs, screens, RUN THE BALL!) and Hurts will do well.  Won’t be surprised at all to see them win the next four.  Seriously.  Make the playoffs, eff up our draft pick and exacerbate the unnecessary QB controversy here in Philly.  

 

[The Noid]

Ideally, if this were truly a well-run organization, this how it should be playing it out right now, assuming the team honestly believes Wentz can be fixed:

• You decide Wentz being rehabbed is the best chance at salvaging the next couple of years rather than paying almost the exact same amount of money/cap space for another team to fix him
  
• You also realize this team is going nowhere in 2020
  
• You share both of those with Wentz (and mean it) and let him in on how these last 4 games can be an opportunity for him to focus on getting his head, and mechanics, right without the potential for injury while the team evaluates the young players, including Hurts
  
• That sets them up with high draft picks in the spring, more evaluations of where they are with current young players and identify who is good and where they need to try again, and gives them a read on Hurts and maybe even he gets a little shine in front of the league and can be used to help build that roster around Wentz
  

Again, all of that is predicated on them truly believing in Wentz, which is what they are saying publicly. But how they are handling things is subverting that sentiment immensely so they are either bad liars or a bad run organization. That's the most frustrating thing, as a fan: all organizations go through turmoil but some handle it better than others (and don't constantly contribute to it like how the whole Hurts piece of this saga has played out) to emerge in a better place without years of disarray.

We're headed straight for at least a few years of disarray. We were spoiled by the quick flip from Chip to SB52, but that's the exception. Buckle up. 

 

[unckeyherb]

Ideally, if this were truly a well-run organization, this how it should be playing it out right now, assuming the team honestly believes Wentz can be fixed:

• You decide Wentz being rehabbed is the best chance at salvaging the next couple of years rather than paying almost the exact same amount of money/cap space for another team to fix him
  
• You also realize this team is going nowhere in 2020
  
• You share both of those with Wentz (and mean it) and let him in on how these last 4 games can be an opportunity for him to focus on getting his head, and mechanics, right without the potential for injury while the team evaluates the young players, including Hurts
  
• That sets them up with high draft picks in the spring, more evaluations of where they are with current young players and identify who is good and where they need to try again, and gives them a read on Hurts and maybe even he gets a little shine in front of the league and can be used to help build that roster around Wentz
  

Again, all of that is predicated on them truly believing in Wentz, which is what they are saying publicly. But how they are handling things is subverting that sentiment immensely so they are either bad liars or a bad run organization. That's the most frustrating thing, as a fan: all organizations go through turmoil but some handle it better than others (and don't constantly contribute to it like how the whole Hurts piece of this saga has played out) to emerge in a better place without years of disarray.

We're headed straight for at least a few years of disarray. We were spoiled by the quick flip from Chip to SB52, but that's the exception. Buckle up. 

If Alshon and Peters are out there on Sunday you’ll know they aren’t doing it right.  

 

[The Noid]

This is from a mike sando article on the athletic:

“The Eagles were facing a roster reckoning even if Wentz and the offense had functioned at a high level this season, and even if the salary cap were expected to expand instead of contract. A cap manager from another team struggled to find enough players to release for Philly to comply with the projected $175 million cap for next season.

“Holy ####,” the cap manager said at one point.

“They are screwed in general,” he said a few moments later.

Finally: “This is a bear.”

“I would advocate tearing it all down and starting over,” a top exec from another team said.”

More evidence that Howie is living off a bogus "cap wizard" reputation. Sure, at one point he was an "in-his-prime" cap manager, but that hasn't been the case for awhile. If he's not bringing that, and he's not bringing anything to the table with player evaluations (draft or FA), then why is he still the right person for the job? 

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Nate Herbig in 408 pass snaps at guard:
- 2 sacks, 0 QB hits allowed

Jason Peters in 77 pass snaps at guard:
- 2 Sacks, 2 QB hits allowed

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Darius Slay over the last two weeks:

16 catches allowed
20 targets
269 yards 
2 TDs

 

[dhockster]

Yep. The most annoying thing is that everyone who has hated Doug will claim victory saying they were right all along. I still think he's a good coach. This situation just got way out of control because of a bunch of little mistakes from himself and from others. It's never one moment to look back and say "that was the breaking point". It was just a slow death by a thousand paper cuts.

Doug's biggest weakness is not being able to admit he is wrong and doubling down on a previously bad decision. I think continually trying 2 pointers when they are not even justified is an example of this, as well as continuing to try to pass the ball when your QB and surrounding personnel are not equipped to be effective now due to injuries

 

[babydemon90]

Nate Herbig in 408 pass snaps at guard:
- 2 sacks, 0 QB hits allowed

Jason Peters in 77 pass snaps at guard:
- 2 Sacks, 2 QB hits allowed

I keep seeing stuff like this. Herbig showing great promise at Guard. Mailata doing well at Tackle. Driscoll showing promise (although I think he was rough against GB  - normal rookie rough? Or bad fit rough?) Where does the perception of it being a very bad OLine come from? Is it all the shuffling? We don't leave Herbig at a spot, Mailata was shuffled around, Matt Pryor was in and out...   Maybe its just the fact they can't settle in and work as a unit?

 

[Bigboy10182000]

I keep seeing stuff like this. Herbig showing great promise at Guard. Mailata doing well at Tackle. Driscoll showing promise (although I think he was rough against GB  - normal rookie rough? Or bad fit rough?) Where does the perception of it being a very bad OLine come from? Is it all the shuffling? We don't leave Herbig at a spot, Mailata was shuffled around, Matt Pryor was in and out...   Maybe its just the fact they can't settle in and work as a unit?

When you factor in the ratios of say Peters at LT and RG the QB would be 5x more likely to be under pressure with him over Mailata and Herbig.  Same with Pryor, Jamon Brown, Toth etc. 

It's not a perception it's bad.  We lead the league in giving up QB hits with 123...GB is best with 36.  Even if you blamed 50 on Wentz holding the ball too long we'd still be top 10

 

[babydemon90]

When you factor in the ratios of say Peters at LT and RG the QB would be 5x more likely to be under pressure with him over Mailata and Herbig.  Same with Pryor, Jamon Brown, Toth etc. 

It's not a perception it's bad.  We lead the league in giving up QB hits with 123...GB is best with 36.  Even if you blamed 50 on Wentz holding the ball too long we'd still be top 10

No it has...but I don't think it's 'o crap we are screwed' bad. I think its fixable with what we have, and draft for depth next year. But the constant reshuffling limits their ability to grow.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

No it has...but I don't think it's 'o crap we are screwed' bad. I think its fixable with what we have, and draft for depth next year. But the constant reshuffling limits their ability to grow.

I don't disagree if they continue to grow.  It's arguably our most talented unit next season if you go with Mailata, Seamolu, Kelce, Herbig & Lane but we are REALLY thin behind that and cap issues won't allow you to sign many quality guys.

 

[Insein]

I don't disagree if they continue to grow.  It's arguably our most talented unit next season if you go with Mailata, Seamolu, Kelce, Herbig & Lane but we are REALLY thin behind that and cap issues won't allow you to sign many quality guys.

Have to draft well and draft often. More picks and take shots at OL depth in later rounds. 

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Have to draft well and draft often. More picks and take shots at OL depth in later rounds. 

I agree.  It's also one of the few positions we have a lot of youth at.  I don't know how good any of them will become but from an age and money stand point it's not super bad,   you have:

Mailata (23), Dillard (25), Seumalo (27), Herbig (22),  Driscoll (23), Pryor (25), Wanogho (23), Opeta (24) & Juriga (23)

I expect Peters and Brooks to definitely be gone.  Maybe Kelce and Lane too? Who knows with how bad the cap is but yeah, we need to draft 3 at least.

 

[babydemon90]

Lane is 100% here, the cap hit of cutting or trading him is higher then if he stays.

 

[nightmare]

Nice analysis there Ash. Use to have a guy on my old board do these but I always wondered where you got the ALL22 at? Is it from a Subscription service, certain website etc? always wanted to do more with these 

Gamepass from the NFL. If your in the U.S. it's $100 a season. You can watch all 22,  whole games, shortened games and  ultra short games.
 

With all 22 you get a drop down menu that will show you all the plays for that quarter. Click on the play and it shows you a sideline view

then an endzone view.

I don't know why more FF'ers don't rave about it.

 

[need2know]

Darius Slay over the last two weeks:

16 catches allowed
20 targets
269 yards 
2 TDs

looks like another bad move to me

 

[Bigboy10182000]

looks like another bad move to me

It's hard playing CB.  I thought he was in good position most of the time against Metcalf but Adams crushed him.  He's also been missing practices with a leg injury so that could be an issue as well.  The slate doesn't get any easier though if theyre going to keep matching him up with #1's.  Thomas, Hopkins, Cooper and McLaurin

 

[Insein]

Lane is 100% here, the cap hit of cutting or trading him is higher then if he stays.

I'd say Lane is here until he breaks. Kelce probably sticks it out one more year or retires if Carson is done. Brooks I'm not sure. He has an $8m cap hit if he's cut or traded. He's probably here for another year at least. He has a $9m in cap savings after next year.

 

[Ash]

I keep seeing stuff like this. Herbig showing great promise at Guard. Mailata doing well at Tackle. Driscoll showing promise (although I think he was rough against GB  - normal rookie rough? Or bad fit rough?) Where does the perception of it being a very bad OLine come from? Is it all the shuffling? We don't leave Herbig at a spot, Mailata was shuffled around, Matt Pryor was in and out...   Maybe its just the fact they can't settle in and work as a unit?

There is a huge lack of cohesion that comes from playing together consistently.  For example, the choices being made on combo blocks as to who gets to the second level, who blocks who in the run game are sometimes being missed.  Mailata looks really good in pass pro but is still making mental errors on who to block in the run / boot game which has had an impact on plays.  Herbig as well.  Lack of experience in being able to sell the initial blocks in the screen game is a big thing as well as to why that has been terrible all year.

The OL problems are mostly down to this rather than guys just getting beat, IMO except Peters, who gets beat 1:1.  Fixable, but will take a while.

 

[Ash]

It's hard playing CB.  I thought he was in good position most of the time against Metcalf but Adams crushed him.  He's also been missing practices with a leg injury so that could be an issue as well.  The slate doesn't get any easier though if theyre going to keep matching him up with #1's.  Thomas, Hopkins, Cooper and McLaurin

I thought he was not moving well Sunday night.  It’s a true thing in football that great throw + great catch > great coverage.  I thought he had great coverage on many of those plays against Metcalf and Adams as well.  That play in the end zone he was right there in perfect position and slapped the ball twice before Adams had completed the catch.  Nothing more he could do on that one, just a great play by Adams.  He did get legit beat by both guys as well, but not worried about him from here out.

That said, age wise, I expect him to be a declining player over the next 2 years (relative to his peak) but he’s still good.  Didn’t love this move or hate it, it bought them 2 years to fix CB with younger players, but that’s it.

 

[unckeyherb]

It's hard playing CB.  I thought he was in good position most of the time against Metcalf but Adams crushed him.  He's also been missing practices with a leg injury so that could be an issue as well.  The slate doesn't get any easier though if theyre going to keep matching him up with #1's.  Thomas, Hopkins, Cooper and McLaurin

Word is that he is pushing back on getting some help with these WR's.  Basically saying, you're paying me to cover the WR1 so I don't need any help.  I appreciate that attitude, but when you're going against guys like DK and Adams (as well as Thomas this week) take one for the team and accept some help.  

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Word is that he is pushing back on getting some help with these WR's.  Basically saying, you're paying me to cover the WR1 so I don't need any help.  I appreciate that attitude, but when you're going against guys like DK and Adams (as well as Thomas this week) take one for the team and accept some help.  

I agree.  It's a give and take.  Him following them did allow the D to contain Wilson and Lockett for a large part of the game I thought too.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

I agree.  It's a give and take.  Him following them did allow the D to contain Wilson and Lockett for a large part of the game I thought too.

Schwartz said as much, for whatever that’s worth.

 

[unckeyherb]

I agree.  It's a give and take.  Him following them did allow the D to contain Wilson and Lockett for a large part of the game I thought too.

Yeah, that is exactly what Schwartz said about him-that he opens up other options for the rest of the defense.

ETA: oops I see Pip already cleared that up

 

[Ash]

Well, Jenkins has had a lot to say this week, huh?

Might be a unpopular opinion but I was OK with the move to let him go.  I don’t mind keeping older players, but the contracts have to be such that you can treat them as a year to year deal, and get out when they decline.  Jenkins wanted 2021 salary guaranteed or he said he wasn’t coming back, if I remember right, and I think it was correct not to give that.

His mobility had declined a lot.  When he first got here he was used in plenty of different ways, but by the end, he could only blitz, play the run and cover short routes and make the tackle.  He had stopped getting his hands on the ball, no INTs or PBUs, he could no longer play high safety and couldn’t stick with RBs and TEs on downfield routes.

All the intangibles stuff is completely valid but he stopped being a versatile player and became a box safety.

 

[Insein]

I don't think the players on defense are bad. I think this scheme just puts them in the worst spots. Schwartz has run his course.  I don't like a scheme that says LB are a nothing position that can be filled by waiver pickups. We need a new philosophy.

 

[unckeyherb]

Well, Jenkins has had a lot to say this week, huh?

Might be a unpopular opinion but I was OK with the move to let him go.  I don’t mind keeping older players, but the contracts have to be such that you can treat them as a year to year deal, and get out when they decline.  Jenkins wanted 2021 salary guaranteed or he said he wasn’t coming back, if I remember right, and I think it was correct not to give that.

His mobility had declined a lot.  When he first got here he was used in plenty of different ways, but by the end, he could only blitz, play the run and cover short routes and make the tackle.  He had stopped getting his hands on the ball, no INTs or PBUs, he could no longer play high safety and couldn’t stick with RBs and TEs on downfield routes.

All the intangibles stuff is completely valid but he stopped being a versatile player and became a box safety.

They also did him right by releasing him before free agency and letting him go where he wanted.  They could have shopped him and traded him to the Jets or something.