What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

*Official 2020 Philadelphia Eagles Thread* Humanity will never recover from the most horrible event to happen in the last 100 years: Doug Pederson pla (1 Viewer)

This is a tough sell. Admittedly I don’t know a ton about Wilson but ironically his longest stint in the NFL was here (loyalty?), he was fired from Arizona after one year as a defensive assistant and is now back in college as a DL coach at Colorado. If he were good he’d be in a better spot IMO. 
I'm just going by what I've been told by Schwartz over the years. He's a hard head and demands almost blind loyalty from his assistants too. I don't know much about Wilson as a whole and not sure if @Deamon got an explanation from him on if the team told him why he was fired or not. Just going off what I was told about Udlin earlier this offseason and some other things on Schwartz he's kind of hard to work with as a whole and it sounds like its one of the reasons he hasn't gotten many HC inquires over the last several yrs. He's a decent DC but he's big on his way or the highway with loyalty amongst his coaches. BG did a good report how Udlin literally went out of his way with the DB injuries to slow down the playbook and simplify it for the younger DBs. Something Schwartz was not willing to do at all or adjust to the newer defensive players overall. He doesn't adapt well at all. So I think if Udlin hadn't taken the job in Indy/Det (can't remember which one off the top of my head) he was eventually going to be gone as he didn't get along with Schwartz. 

 
Not sure why they fired Wilson he seemed to be one of their better Assistants. Only thing I can think of is he butted heads with Schwartz. I know Udlin did and gave the team an ultimatum either Schwartz was gone or he'd leave. I think if Schwartz had been hired by Clev Udlin would still be here. It was just very weird how they fired one of their best assistants in Wilson though with not much explanation 
This too. I think Schwartz has autonomy on how the defense is run. That includes personnel and coaching. It's been obvious with who gets cut and who gets to play. Same with the coaches that have left and who has stayed. 

It's honestly like we have 2 head coaches at times. Doug has very little input on defense. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
This too. I think Schwartz has autonomy on how the defense is run. That includes personnel and coaching. It's been obvious with who gets cut and who gets to play. Same with the coaches that have left and who has stayed. 

It's honestly like we have 2 head coaches at times. Doug has very little input on defense. 
I also heard Schwartz was really determined to get Sidney Jones at all cost. Udlin and others wanted to wait till the 4th at the very least as they didn't want to draft a guy coming off an achilles injury where the player's speed was one of his best skillsets. Jones if not for Schwartz would've been gone well before this past season. Udlin liked "Sul as well and though he could be a serviceable slot guy. He wanted to make Mills more of a hybrid DB to hide some of Mill's weaknesses. Schwartz was unwilling in many aspects or taking suggestions from coaches. 

 
Not sure why they fired Wilson he seemed to be one of their better Assistants. Only thing I can think of is he butted heads with Schwartz.  It was just very weird how they fired one of their best assistants in Wilson though with not much explanation 


Admittedly I don’t know a ton about Wilson but ironically his longest stint in the NFL was here (loyalty?), he was fired from Arizona after one year as a defensive assistant and is now back in college as a DL coach at Colorado. If he were good he’d be in a better spot IMO. 


I'm just going by what I've been told by Schwartz over the years. He's a hard head and demands almost blind loyalty from his assistants too. I don't know much about Wilson as a whole and not sure if @Deamon got an explanation from him on if the team told him why he was fired or not.
Ya I met and chatted with Wilson a few times.  Good dude. From what I gathered, it was a combo of them not having faith in him, wanting a shake up, and Schwartz wanting Daniels to take over as the head DL coach.

Phillip's firing was the one that obviously pissed me off the most.  Never really got his fair chance there, and that call wasn't on Schwartz... schwartz wanted him to stay but that came from above.

 
I think Doug is an idiot and am looking forward to moving on from him.   Could be wrong but I don't think people will be lining up for his services 
Doug is a great coach.  He's an awful offensive mind.  I'd also be okay moving on from him but would be fine if he stayed and we got a great OC.

 
Some Thoughts:

Front Office

I’ll lead with the obvious, Howie needs to go.  His big win since 2016 was unloading Maxwell’s contract and trading up to be able to draft Wentz.  That’s hugely important and Wentz outstanding play in 2017 directly led to the Super Bowl win.

But…, the list of successes outside that is much shorter than the list of failures, such as:

The Trades:

  • The trade of a 4th for Jay Ajayi gets overlooked because he contributed to the SB win, but it’s still not a smart move.  They  gambled they’d get a comp pick at a similar level, but nobody signed him so they burned a 4th and pick for half a season of play.  The fact that a long shot bet came off doesn’t mean it was a smart bet.
  • Ditto for Golden Tate.  They did get a 4th back for him, but traded a 3rd (wtf!).  Cost was too high, and despite what they said, there was clearly no plan to integrate him into the O.
  • Trading next year’s 4th for Genard Avery.  Exactly one game so far where he has made a contribution.
The string of “smartest guy in the room” decisions and evaluation failures:

  • Trading up for Dillard to snipe the Texans now looks like a failure, taking Reagor over Jefferson this year seems ridiculous given how well Jefferson has played.  I like Reagor and think he can still do well, but clearly the evaluation of “fit” or that Jefferson was just a slot WR was monumentally incorrect.
  • Nickell Robey-Coleman is a top 5 nickel CB.  Not the most impactful decision, but a great example of Howie thinking he knows better than the rest of the league and patting himself on the back.
  • Jalen Hurts picks this year, when DB, DL, LB and WR talent were still desperately needed.
Bad Contract Extensions / Signings:

  • Extending Alshon and guaranteeing salary, everyone understands this one enough said.  Alshon couldn’t stay healthy when he was young, what was the expectation here?
  • Javon Hargreave has been mostly invisible so far, Malik Jackson has had a couple of nice games, Cox hasn’t looked like an elite player since 2018 (the elite moments like the strip sack last week are coming further and further apart).  In summary we have $40m per year invested in DT and the results are not there.
  • Brandon Brooks - a guy who was approaching 30 and had major injuries to finish 2 previous seasons.  It went under the radar because it happened late both years, then he got injured in preseason.  He’s 30, the 4th highest paid OG in the league (per year basis) and he’s on the team until 22 or 23 based on dead money.
  • Bringing JP back was an evaluation mistake, because he’s mostly played poorly, but giving him a pay raise to play LT compounds this mistake.
The list of players outperforming their contracts is short, the list of guys not playing up to their salaries is way too long and will take a couple of years to turn over.

Looking at all the above, I simply don’t trust Howie to wisely use an early draft choice or rebuild the roster based on the hole he’s dug.

Coaching

I think it’s been shown over the last couple of years that Doug’s strengths align with being an “executive” style HC, rather than being deeply involved in scheme and play calling.  He doesn’t seem to have the self awareness to understand this though, and the team is suffering because of it.

My indicator for good coaching has always been seeing players asked to do things they’re good at and avoiding areas where they’re weak, and we just don’t see that from this offensive scheme.

I think Doug’s path to future success is to step back from deep day to day involvement in the scheme and play calling, but it’s not something that can be forced on him from above or it will fail spectacularly.  That may be what happened this year, with him being forced to fire Groh (and Watch).   The new batch of offensive assistants have clearly not added anything positive.  Marty Morhinweg?  Really?

If Doug isn’t not just willing, but motivated to make these changes, and bring in some fresh offensive ideas and loosen his control, then he should go as well.

Press Taylor, is it just me, or do things look worse the longer he coaches Carson and more responsibility he has?  Given how consistently Wentz has been making the same mistakes and how his accuracy has declined this year I don’t think he’s being coached well at a position coach level, and I don’t think Taylor is doing much as pass game coordinator to resolve the problems we are consistently seeing this year.

Overall there seems to be a lack of accountability with assistant coaches and veteran players, and a lack of willingness to adjust the scheme to reflect the injury situation and players strengths and weaknesses.

That said, where I think Howie is well below par since 2017, Doug has his issues, but there are still strengths to work with, if he can recognise his weaknesses and is willing to make the necessary changes.

QB Play

Wentz was an elite player in 2017 but has declined since.  The stretches of play where he elevates the team were inconsistent in 2018/9 but still there often enough that I thought 2017 form was just around the corner if the weapons were better, or with a bit more time to recover from the injuries.

Instead he’s gone off a cliff in 2020.  There have been accuracy issues but the most alarming to me is the consistently reckless decisions with ball security, both throwing and with the ball in hand and with holding the ball far too long   I’m honestly not sure how to reset him in season.

Based on contract he’s here for a while, and given that we have seen elite play from him in the past, and very good play as recently as last season, I want to see Wentz with some different coaching.  That could be new position coach / OC with Pederson as HC, or a complete coaching turnover.

 
Some Thoughts:

Front Office

I’ll lead with the obvious, Howie needs to go.  His big win since 2016 was unloading Maxwell’s contract and trading up to be able to draft Wentz.  That’s hugely important and Wentz outstanding play in 2017 directly led to the Super Bowl win.

But…, the list of successes outside that is much shorter than the list of failures, such as:

The Trades:

  • The trade of a 4th for Jay Ajayi gets overlooked because he contributed to the SB win, but it’s still not a smart move.  They  gambled they’d get a comp pick at a similar level, but nobody signed him so they burned a 4th and pick for half a season of play.  The fact that a long shot bet came off doesn’t mean it was a smart bet.
  • Ditto for Golden Tate.  They did get a 4th back for him, but traded a 3rd (wtf!).  Cost was too high, and despite what they said, there was clearly no plan to integrate him into the O.
  • Trading next year’s 4th for Genard Avery.  Exactly one game so far where he has made a contribution.
The string of “smartest guy in the room” decisions and evaluation failures:

  • Trading up for Dillard to snipe the Texans now looks like a failure, taking Reagor over Jefferson this year seems ridiculous given how well Jefferson has played.  I like Reagor and think he can still do well, but clearly the evaluation of “fit” or that Jefferson was just a slot WR was monumentally incorrect.
  • Nickell Robey-Coleman is a top 5 nickel CB.  Not the most impactful decision, but a great example of Howie thinking he knows better than the rest of the league and patting himself on the back.
  • Jalen Hurts picks this year, when DB, DL, LB and WR talent were still desperately needed.
Bad Contract Extensions / Signings:

  • Extending Alshon and guaranteeing salary, everyone understands this one enough said.  Alshon couldn’t stay healthy when he was young, what was the expectation here?
  • Javon Hargreave has been mostly invisible so far, Malik Jackson has had a couple of nice games, Cox hasn’t looked like an elite player since 2018 (the elite moments like the strip sack last week are coming further and further apart).  In summary we have $40m per year invested in DT and the results are not there.
  • Brandon Brooks - a guy who was approaching 30 and had major injuries to finish 2 previous seasons.  It went under the radar because it happened late both years, then he got injured in preseason.  He’s 30, the 4th highest paid OG in the league (per year basis) and he’s on the team until 22 or 23 based on dead money.
  • Bringing JP back was an evaluation mistake, because he’s mostly played poorly, but giving him a pay raise to play LT compounds this mistake.
The list of players outperforming their contracts is short, the list of guys not playing up to their salaries is way too long and will take a couple of years to turn over.

Looking at all the above, I simply don’t trust Howie to wisely use an early draft choice or rebuild the roster based on the hole he’s dug.

Coaching

I think it’s been shown over the last couple of years that Doug’s strengths align with being an “executive” style HC, rather than being deeply involved in scheme and play calling.  He doesn’t seem to have the self awareness to understand this though, and the team is suffering because of it.

My indicator for good coaching has always been seeing players asked to do things they’re good at and avoiding areas where they’re weak, and we just don’t see that from this offensive scheme.

I think Doug’s path to future success is to step back from deep day to day involvement in the scheme and play calling, but it’s not something that can be forced on him from above or it will fail spectacularly.  That may be what happened this year, with him being forced to fire Groh (and Watch).   The new batch of offensive assistants have clearly not added anything positive.  Marty Morhinweg?  Really?

If Doug isn’t not just willing, but motivated to make these changes, and bring in some fresh offensive ideas and loosen his control, then he should go as well.

Press Taylor, is it just me, or do things look worse the longer he coaches Carson and more responsibility he has?  Given how consistently Wentz has been making the same mistakes and how his accuracy has declined this year I don’t think he’s being coached well at a position coach level, and I don’t think Taylor is doing much as pass game coordinator to resolve the problems we are consistently seeing this year.

Overall there seems to be a lack of accountability with assistant coaches and veteran players, and a lack of willingness to adjust the scheme to reflect the injury situation and players strengths and weaknesses.

That said, where I think Howie is well below par since 2017, Doug has his issues, but there are still strengths to work with, if he can recognise his weaknesses and is willing to make the necessary changes.

QB Play

Wentz was an elite player in 2017 but has declined since.  The stretches of play where he elevates the team were inconsistent in 2018/9 but still there often enough that I thought 2017 form was just around the corner if the weapons were better, or with a bit more time to recover from the injuries.

Instead he’s gone off a cliff in 2020.  There have been accuracy issues but the most alarming to me is the consistently reckless decisions with ball security, both throwing and with the ball in hand and with holding the ball far too long   I’m honestly not sure how to reset him in season.

Based on contract he’s here for a while, and given that we have seen elite play from him in the past, and very good play as recently as last season, I want to see Wentz with some different coaching.  That could be new position coach / OC with Pederson as HC, or a complete coaching turnover.
Good breakdown. I disagree on some of the analysis on the signings but overall it gets the point across. Hargarve and Jackson were considered great pickups at the time. We had Pitt people saying "that's a steal", "he's a beast, you're going to love him" about Hargrave especially. So what happened? That goes back to scheme and coaching to me. Brooks is an elite Guard when healthy. Yes there's injury concern but if you let him go while he's healthy, that's one that Howie could easily have been ripped for. NRC was considered a great signing. Not good, great. Then the guy falls off a cliff. Again coaching. 

Alshon and JP are absolutely mistakes. JP resigning to be Guard you can understand after the Brooks injury but paying him extra to play Tackle was a horrible idea whether it was Dougs, Luries or Howie's. Horrible precedent. 

In the draft, there are 3 picks that are absolutely baffling. The rest are not really that bad. JJAW, Pumpfrey and Hurts. JJAW can't play. I don't think Metcalf would be as good here as he's been in Seattle but JJAw can't play at all. Pumpfrey was picked in that draft with all those stud RBs available. It's almost impossible to miss. Getting Miles helps mediate that miss a bit but still. Hurts still makes no sense in the 2nd. Your best case scenario for using him is that Carson has a career ending injury. You don't use a 2nd on that disaster scenario.

Dillard the jury is still out. He was good enough for them to move on from JP who they apparently still liked. Getting hurt before the year doesn't really damn that one yet. Reagor over Jefferson, again guy got hurt. But I contest, how well would Jefferson be doing here in this offense compared to where he landed?

Basically I think if anyone is gone this year, it's the coaching staff. The whole staff. Howie will get one more year to fix it and depending on what he does will decide his fate in 21. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Good breakdown. I disagree on some of the analysis on the signings but overall it gets the point across. Hargarve and Jackson were considered great pickups at the time. We had Pitt people saying "that's a steal", "he's a beast, you're going to love him" about Hargrave especially. So what happened? That goes back to scheme and coaching to me. Brooks is an elite Guard when healthy. Yes there's injury concern but if you let him go while he's healthy, that's one that Howie could easily have been ripped for. NRC was considered a great signing. Not good, great. Then the guy falls off a cliff. Again coaching. 

...

Basically I think if anyone is gone this year, it's the coaching staff. The whole staff. Howie will get one more year to fix it and depending on what he does will decide his fate in 21. 
The coaching staff is not blameless, but I think the FO has been worse.  Who are this team’s good young players?  With an expensive QB, you *have* to be getting contributions from rookie contract players and with only a couple of exceptions we’re just not.  Instead Howie has been burning picks on trading up and bringing in veterans and the cupboard is now pretty bare.

The coaching is bad this year and there has to be changes, but over the last few years combined, I still think coaching has been better than roster building, and when you add financial mismanagement to that, it’s worse.

 
The coaching staff is not blameless, but I think the FO has been worse.  Who are this team’s good young players?  With an expensive QB, you *have* to be getting contributions from rookie contract players and with only a couple of exceptions we’re just not.  Instead Howie has been burning picks on trading up and bringing in veterans and the cupboard is now pretty bare.

The coaching is bad this year and there has to be changes, but over the last few years combined, I still think coaching has been better than roster building, and when you add financial mismanagement to that, it’s worse.
I think we're pretty close to the same level. I just thinking coaching has been worse than the GM.

 
I think we're pretty close to the same level. I just thinking coaching has been worse than the GM.
If they fired everybody I wouldn’t complain, but if they fire the coaches and keep Howie, I’ll be 🤬🤬

Will not be a very appealing coaching position if Howie stays, IMO.

 
If they fired everybody I wouldn’t complain, but if they fire the coaches and keep Howie, I’ll be 🤬🤬
IIRC when Reid and/or Kelly were fired, there were questions about why Howie wasn't fired too. Part of it is that Howie is (was?) very close to Lurie, but also because Lurie didn't want to start over from scratch completely. We'll see if that holds again. 

 
IIRC when Reid and/or Kelly were fired, there were questions about why Howie wasn't fired too. Part of it is that Howie is (was?) very close to Lurie, but also because Lurie didn't want to start over from scratch completely. We'll see if that holds again. 
Reid had personnel control, so makes sense a bit there and it was always murky in 2013/14 who was making decisions, clearly there were guys were Chip’s picks those years even though Howie was officially GM.  Then Kelly went 🔥in 2015.  So I don’t think Howie could really be judged on those years, but he’s been in charge since 2016 and IMO, the results are not great.

There would certainly be questions about accountability for a new coach coming in and there’s likely to be a perception that the coach would wear any bad results.  And that coach would have to fix Wentz and deal with an expensive, ageing roster for the first year or two.

 
Reid had personnel control, so makes sense a bit there and it was always murky in 2013/14 who was making decisions, clearly there were guys were Chip’s picks those years even though Howie was officially GM.  Then Kelly went 🔥in 2015.  So I don’t think Howie could really be judged on those years, but he’s been in charge since 2016 and IMO, the results are not great.

There would certainly be questions about accountability for a new coach coming in and there’s likely to be a perception that the coach would wear any bad results.  And that coach would have to fix Wentz and deal with an expensive, ageing roster for the first year or two.
LAC and HOU (even with the missing draft picks) are much more attractive options than here for an offensive guru type looking for a HC gig. 

After Kelly was fired, Lurie didn't want any one person to have that much power again.

For the Eagles, Lurie said the team's next head coach will have a "much more collaborative" approach to personnel decisions with the front office, per NFL.com's Marc Sessler. He also said Eagles Executive Vice President of Football Operations Howie Roseman will be involved in the collaborative efforts, per Tim McManus of 97.5 The Fanatic. 

According to Zach Berman of the Philadelphia Inquirer, the Eagles will use Roseman and senior advisor Tom Donahoe in lieu of hiring a general manager. 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2603718-chip-kelly-fired-by-eagles-owner-jeffrey-lurie-comments-on-decision-to-fire-hc
It will be interesting to see what he thinks now in terms of power structure. 

 
One more note on my opinion on Howie's financial management.  He's been including 2-3 automatically voided years in contracts to spread signing bonus over, meaning there are a number of players who will continue to be eating up salary cap space, even after their contracts end, and that will compound the cap acceleration of remaining signing bonus money if  they are released early.  

Here's a list:

Fletcher Cox - 6.5m over 2 yrs from 2023

Javon Hargreave - 4.9m over 2 yrs from 2023

Alshon Jeffrey - 5.1m over 2 years from 2022

Brandon Graham - 12m over 3 years from 2022

Malik Jackson - 9m over 3 years from 2022

DeSean Jackson - 3.9m over 2 years from 2022

For 2022 that's a total of $14.1m, $16.5m for 2023 and $10.7m in 2024.  It's hard to predict future cap limits with revenue being Covid impacted, but f the cap is around $175m in 2022, that's 8% of the cap, before we account for dead money from players like Alshon, maybe Malik Jackson being released, maybe BG and/or Kelce retiring. 

If he isn't fired, I'd expect him to continue to employ this tactic to try and save his job.  

This has allowed us to keep the Super Bowl window open for this great team that Howie's built.  I used to laugh at the Cowboys for doing this.  :wall:

Edit: all numbers come from Spotrac

 
Last edited by a moderator:
@Ash successful examples of your “executive” style HC are Tomlin and Carroll, although one could argue that their success hinges on the performance and leadership of a HOF caliber QB

 
It's time for the Eagles to blow it up

It's time for the Eagles to blow it up

After another season of the franchise trending in the wrong direction, it's time for Jeffrey Lurie to move on from Doug Pederson and Howie Roseman. Here's why...

BY JIMMY KEMPSKI 
PhillyVoice Staff

Eagles owner Jeffrey Lurie must clean house. 

The Philadelphia Eagles are a very bad football team. That's obvious to even the most casual observers each week, as the team has stumbled to a 3-6-1 start, which doesn't even begin to tell the story of what the actual product has looked like on the field. Even more troubling is that the Eagles are also old, expensive, boring, and it's likely to only get worse.

As incredible as this statement may seem only 34 months removed from the team's heroic march up Broad Street with a Lombardi Trophy in tow, Jeffrey Lurie has little other choice than to move on from general manager Howie Roseman and head coach Doug Pederson once this debacle of a season is over.

The reasoning that we'll lay out is more complex than just, "Howie and Doug suck and they have to go."

Roseman engineered as impressive a turnaround of an NFL franchise as you'll see when he took a team that Chip Kelly left in shambles, and through savvy draft maneuvering, smart free agent acquisitions, and aggressive trades, assembled a roster so sturdy that even the loss of its franchise quarterback to a devastating knee injury couldn't stop it from winning a Super Bowl. And he did it in two years.

Meanwhile, Pederson was everything Kelly wished he could be, as he helped create a locker room with harmonious culture, he and his staff out-schemed defensive coordinators, and his "fearless" situational decision-making gave his team a substantial analytical edge over their opponents.

If Roseman and Pederson are both let go, the feeling here is that they will both land GM and head coaching jobs elsewhere. It just can't be in Philly anymore.

The team has fallen apart since the Super Bowl

The reality is that the team has fallen short of expectations in each of the three seasons since that Super Bowl win, and while the team made the playoffs in 2018 and 2019, they only did so because other teams faltered.

 • In 2018, the Eagles needed to beat a mentally checked out Washington team in Week 17, while also benefiting from a Vikings loss to a Bears team with nothing to play for in order to get in as the 6 seed at 9-7. Both things happened, and they backdoored their way in.

• In 2019, the Eagles were sitting at 5-7, before feasting on the dreck in their division for four games to close the season once again at 9-7, winning the NFC East.

• In 2020, the Eagles entered the season with their head coach, defensive coordinator, and quarterback all in their fifth year with the team, while all three of the other teams in the division hired new coaching staffs, and didn't have a full offseason to implement their schemes and philosophies. Yet, they have looked disjointed, and may very well finish last in what could arguably be considered the worst division in NFL history.

If you look at the teams the Eagles have beaten the last two seasons, seven of their 12 wins have come against quarterbacks who aren't currently NFL starters, at least by their respective teams' choices.

Case Keenum

Luke Falk

Mitchell Trubisky

Eli Manning

Dwayne Haskins

Nick Mullens

Ben DiNucci

Take away those easy wins, and the Eagles are 5-13-1 the last two years.

How did they go from having one of the best rosters in the NFL to one of the worst?

Certainly, the surprisingly poor season from Carson Wentz has played a major part, but the team's struggles go well beyond the quarterback position.

Just before the start of the 2019 season, we analyzed the Eagles' rapidly aging roster, and warned that the team was running the risk of needing to undergo a major rebuild in a few years if they didn't change their strategic pattern of signing and trading for older players for short-term gains, while continually making a low number of draft picks.

In 2018 and 2019, the Eagles made a combined 10 picks. No team made fewer. As such, their margin for error in finding good young players was narrow. On the picks they did make, the misses outweighed the hits.

In 2020, they finally made a substantial number of picks — 10, to be exact — but oddly opted to select quarterback Jalen Hurts in the second round, and developmental linebacker Davion Taylor in the third, both of whom were highly unlikely to make immediate contributions.

The combination of an influx of rookies unready to contribute and a core group of veterans from the Super Bowl season in obvious decline left the team devoid of good players in their prime years.

Going forward, when you look at the roster position-by-position, at best there are questions. At worst, there are glaring holes.

• Quarterback: Wentz has statistically been the worst starting quarterback in the NFL. Can he ever come close to regaining his old form? Jalen Hurts is an unknown.

• Running back: Miles Sanders is clearly a good player, but he has had injury issues early in his career.

• Wide receiver: The Eagles certainly hope they have a good 1-2 receiving combo in Travis Fulgham and Jalen Reagor, but that's far from a certainty. Meanwhile, they're going to have huge dead money hits when they make the obvious decisions to release Alshon Jeffery ($10,509,500) and DeSean Jackson ($5,802,000) this offseason. It's probably also worth noting here that over the last few seasons, the Eagles had the opportunity to add receivers like DeAndre Hopkins, Stefon Diggs, DK Metcalf, Justin Jefferson, Robby Anderson, and Terry McLaurin, all of whom have at least 800 receiving yards already this season, but they are instead stuck with this overpriced, underperforming group.

• Tight end: Is Zach Ertz a goner this offseason? He should be. If so, the Eagles still have Dallas Goedert, who is a rare good young player on this roster, but once again like Sanders above, has missed time due to injury.

• Offensive line: Once the most stacked part of the roster, the Eagle O-Line is fading. 

Jason Peters (38) is done. Andre Dillard, the player the team picked in the first round of the 2019 draft to replace Peters, had a bad rookie season and missed his entire second season with a biceps injury.

Jason Kelce (33) is year-to-year, in terms of potential retirement.

Brandon Brooks (31) is recovering from his second Achilles tear in as many years.

Lane Johnson (30) may be dealing with his bum ankle for the rest of his career. If he does eventually get to a point in which it's no longer an issue (he's not so sure about that), he already has triple-digit starts for his career, and a natural decline in play feels inevitable.

• Defensive end: Brandon Graham has been a star this season, but he'll be 33 in April. Derek Barnett is a solid starter, but has not developed into a stud DE, and he may have a capped ceiling because of a lack of special athleticism. Josh Sweat has become a good rotational end, at a minimum, and could very well continue to develop into a quality starter.

• Defensive tackle: The production is not coming close to meeting the cost. Fletcher Cox is still a good player, but he's no longer elite, and his cap numbers will be in the $24 million range the next two seasons. Malik Jackson is another quality player, but is overpaid ($13.6 million on the cap in 2021) and aging (31 in January). The Javon Hargrave signing has flown under the radar because the team has had so many bigger issues, but he has been a complete non-factor.

• Linebacker: Perhaps the worst off-ball linebacker group in the NFL.

• Cornerback: Darius Slay has been good in 2020, but he has no INTs, and he'll be 30 in January. CB2 is a clear glaring need this offseason, as always.

• Safety: Jalen Mills' transition to safety hasn't been smooth, and Rodney McLeod will be 31 in 2021. 

It's never great when there's a decent argument to draft any position in the first round, aside from running back, tight end, kicker, punter, and long snapper.

The roster won't improve much, if at all in 2021

The Eagles were already going to have salary cap challenges in 2021 even before a pandemic began spreading across the globe early in the 2020 NFL offseason. Because of lost revenue as a result of COVID-19, the 2021 salary cap could be as low as $176 million, down from approximately $198 million in 2020. Based on that $176 million figure (which we should note could rise a bit), the Eagles are scheduled to be approximately $69 million over the cap.

The Eagles will be able to roll over their remaining 2020 cap space (currently about $23 million) into 2021, and they'll be able to get back under the cap by the time the new league year begins in March, through player releases, a possible rise in the $176 million cap figure, and some perhaps some necessary — but less than ideal — contract restructures.

For years, the Eagles have, in NFL salary cap vernacular, "kicked the can down the road" with contract restructures of their most expensive players by converting salary into signing bonuses, and spreading cap hits into future years, often times beyond the duration of the players' contracts. In fact, the following players all have salary cap hits on years after their contracts have already voided:

Fletcher Cox

Malik Jackson

Alshon Jeffery

Lane Johnson

Jason Kelce

Brandon Graham

Zach Ertz

DeSean Jackson

Javon Hargrave

Rodney McLeod

Isaac Seumalo

At some point, you have to pay the bill. 

Anyway, the point that we have gone a long way to make is that the Eagles are not going to be able to improve their roster in free agency, as leftover money to sign appealing players on the open market isn't going to be available.

The Eagles will get some players back from injury, like Brooks, for example, but they are also going to have to get rid of players from this already bad roster, and begin solely turning their attention to building through the draft.

Roseman will likely think short-term, when a long-term fix is needed

After he worked magic in 2016 and 2017, Roseman has had three consecutive downright bad seasons. Once general managers know they are on the proverbial "hot seat," they often manage their team in a way that helps their short-term survival, eschewing what is best, long-term.

There is no more short-term for this team. It's over. As we detailed above the roster has the trifecta of doomsday issues:

It's bad.

It's old.

It's expensive.

And it's going to take years of losing before it will be fixed.

The longer the team "kicks the can down the road," the worse it's going to be when they inevitably have to blow it all up. In the interim, the team's old core players will continue to decline. The time to go full-on rebuild mode is now.

Of course, "blowing it up" requires patience. Lurie will have to allow the general manager to formulate a plan to get out from under of a slew of albatross contracts, and then re-build a winner. Seeing as Roseman has had three consecutive bad seasons, as noted above, he does not deserve a multi-year commitment going forward. It's also probably worth pointing out that a multi-year rebuild can only be successfully accomplished if the team substantially increases their hit rate in the draft, which has been Roseman's biggest weakness.

So what about Doug?

Pederson has had his worst season since the team hired him in 2016. His offense has been out-schemed, his play-calling has been uncreative, at best, and his usually strong in-game strategic management has been surprisingly bad at times. His players have always played hard for him, but as this season spirals out of control, it doesn't feel at all like 2018 or 2019 when the team still fought like hell when the they were at their bottom points.

Would Pederson even care if he were let go? The pressure of this season has no doubt worn on him, as is plain to see when he has been the sole face that has to answer difficult questions from the press three times per week for organizational-wide failure.

Keeping Pederson around for a rebuild only ensures that fans will call for his head when the team inevitably continues to lose in 2021. There's no sense in putting anyone through all that. A fresh start with a new GM and a new head coach would allow for a clear-eyed perspective across the board, and create an environment in which the brass can operate with the long-term health of the franchise in mind.

And Carson?

As we noted last week, Wentz almost certainly isn't going anywhere. If you trade Wentz, it's $33,820,608 in dead money, and that's sort of where the discussion ends. Back in February, in researching a deep dive piece on Alshon Jeffery, I asked Jason Fitzgerald of OverTheCap to give me the biggest dead money hits in NFL history. His list is below (I added in Brandin Cooks and Nick Foles, who have since also had sizeable dead money hits):

Brandin Cooks: $21.8M

Antonio Brown: $21.12M

Peyton Manning: $19.3M (they received a big credit for that though)

Nick Foles $18.7M

Ryan Tannehill: $18.4M

Jamarcus Russell: $17.9M

Nnamdi Asomugha: $17.2M

Blake Bortles: $16.5M

If the Eagles were willing to trade Wentz and take on $33.8 million in dead money, it would be the biggest dead money hit in NFL history by a country mile, clearing the previous dead money hit leader (Cooks) by $12 million.

Using the aforementioned $176 million as a temporary 2021 salary cap number, Wentz's dead money hit would take up 19.2 percent of the Eagles' cap. So there's that.

Now add in the dead money releases of Jeffery ($10,509,500) and Jackson ($5,802,000), and we're up $50,132,108, or 28.5 percent of a possible $176,000,000 salary cap. 

There's no denying that Wentz has been bad this season. However, he's not that far removed from dragging a practice squad offense to the playoffs, and there's also the reality that the Eagles very likely would not have a Super Bowl trophy displayed proudly at the NovaCare Complex if not for Wentz leading the team to an 11-2 record and the No. 1 seed in the NFC in 2017.

The compensation it would take from some other team to make Lurie willing to take on almost $34 million in dead money would have to be huge (multiple first round picks?), and clearly, nobody is giving that up for player whose current team would be willing to have one-fifth of their cap spend play for another team. 

If the Eagles really, really wanted Wentz off of the roster, like the Steelers really wanted Antonio Brown of off their roster, then sure, maybe you take less to get him out, but obviously, that is not the case here.

So what's the case not to blow it all up then?

Barring some unforeseen extremely convincing success from the team down the stretch (which, I mean, come on)...

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
My biggest issues:

  • The "collaborative environment" they've been touting since Doug was hired has muddied the waters on who is, or should be, accountable for a lot of this mess. Both Lurie and Howie have influence over personnel, contracts, and roster. Howie, Doug, Schwartz, and Joe Douglas have/had influence over the talent evaluations and draft picks. Doug and his 10-person offensive staff have influence over scheme and game plans. So when everyone is accountable, no one is accountable. And after OC firings and internal promotions in response to the last 2 seasons that just rearranged deck chairs on the Titanic, Lurie's backed himself into a corner at this point where everyone might need to go. I think the Chip Kelly situation caused him to over-correct and SB52 made him think it was a perfect set-up. But he has to eventually come to terms with 2017 being the exception that proves the rule on this structure. You can have collaboration, and it's valuable, but you also need definitive authority and accountability in essential areas. About the only thing where there's clear authority and accountability is play calling, which is ironic because it's the one area that Doug is obviously in need of help with.


  • 2017 being the exception/anomaly is also playing out in other ways, too. It's looking like an outlier year for Wentz. Doug seems to have turned more and more into the pumpkin most Eagles fans assumed he would be when the hiring was announced. Howie's "magic" put together that one stars-aligned season. And that year brought the organization to the conclusion that they hit on the secret of success and doubled-down on the same things instead of trying to stay ahead and find the next, new way to succeed in the NFL. So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.


  • There's nothing that any of the main people in the organization do that is far and above better than someone else can do. The cap and it's intricacies aren't the enigma they used to be where you would be in dire straits if Howie was not your cap-whisperer. There's even a whole web site (OTC) that's removed from the NFL that is able to study it and understand it. Doug's "big b-lls" attitude is driven off analytics that, again, many outside sites can give you similar analytics. Schwartz's scheme is consistently inconsistent. And on, and on. 


  • I'll keep banging this drum: Press Taylor has been a disaster at QB Coach. Maybe he's not a good one? Maybe he can't focus enough on those duties because he's also part of the offensive high council (more "collaboration" ramifications!) of coordinators? But whatever the reason, he should be treated the same as the disposable WR coaches we went through when that position group was getting worse every year. Obviously Wentz has something to do with his decline, but a good QB coach should be helping prevent, or improve, the things that everyone can see on tape. And if he's trying to do that, and just not getting through to Wentz, that's again back on him and his methods or relationship. The Hurts situation, where they haven't even been confident enough to let him run a regular pass play, also reflects bad on him.
Sad to say, but finishing last place in this all-time, historically craptacular division could be the best thing to happen to this team. Then the organization and the fans will have no misconceptions about this team and the necessary rebuild while we TTP for the next couple of seasons.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Any chance they win tonight?   Need eagles win to win my weekly pickems.    Doubt they will but this does kinda seem like one they could.   Man they are due vs the seahawks

 
Any chance they win tonight?   Need eagles win to win my weekly pickems.    Doubt they will but this does kinda seem like one they could.   Man they are due vs the seahawks
I need a monster game from Wilson for both of my fantasy teams to win. This means it will be a defensive struggle that the Eagles will lose. 

 
The part that sucks is that this team is stuck for a few years. This isn't a bad team with upside. It's a bad team in contract hell with little upcoming talent. You do pretty much need to commit to a losing season or two with some painful cuts. If you can move ANYONE not on a minimum salary for a future draft pick, you have to do it. Ertz, Brooks, Wentz, Lane . Even Sanders and Goedert. 

Except I'm not ever sure trading these guys gets you much relief, the contracts are really a bear.

 
Any chance they win tonight?   Need eagles win to win my weekly pickems.    Doubt they will but this does kinda seem like one they could.   Man they are due vs the seahawks
This is one of those spots that Doug and company usually pull one out of their ### to save the season. I just can't see it though. 

 
The part that sucks is that this team is stuck for a few years. This isn't a bad team with upside. It's a bad team in contract hell with little upcoming talent. You do pretty much need to commit to a losing season or two with some painful cuts. If you can move ANYONE not on a minimum salary for a future draft pick, you have to do it. Ertz, Brooks, Wentz, Lane . Even Sanders and Goedert. 

Except I'm not ever sure trading these guys gets you much relief, the contracts are really a bear.
Wentz, Sanders and Goedert I'd keep. Everyone else is definitely moveable. It's a cap hit but it's gone after a year once you trade them as opposed to lingering for several years. 

 
Wentz, Sanders and Goedert I'd keep. Everyone else is definitely moveable. It's a cap hit but it's gone after a year once you trade them as opposed to lingering for several years. 
It's painful, but we'll need to commit $$ to Sanders and Goedert before we are competitive. And Sanders especially - much as I like him - is not at a position we might be served at putting cash at.

 
It's painful, but we'll need to commit $$ to Sanders and Goedert before we are competitive. And Sanders especially - much as I like him - is not at a position we might be served at putting cash at.
I wouldn't move him though. Use him for what he is. You get another 2 years minimum of that. Same with Goedert. Then depending on if you draft a replacement or not will determine if you move on.

 
The part that sucks is that this team is stuck for a few years. This isn't a bad team with upside. It's a bad team in contract hell with little upcoming talent. You do pretty much need to commit to a losing season or two with some painful cuts. If you can move ANYONE not on a minimum salary for a future draft pick, you have to do it. Ertz, Brooks, Wentz, Lane . Even Sanders and Goedert. 

Except I'm not ever sure trading these guys gets you much relief, the contracts are really a bear.
Trust the process

 
Eagles will win tonight.  I am pretty confident of it.  This just feels like the kind of game they win every year and start to turn things around through the end of the season.  

 
Eagles will win tonight.  I am pretty confident of it.  This just feels like the kind of game they win every year and start to turn things around through the end of the season.  
except for the ROS part, gotta admit this is the kind of improbable win that just seems like we're due for... my wishful thinking has hit another level this year.

 
The Eagles 31st ranked offense against the Seahawks 28th ranked defense?

It's the classic "A Stoppable Force vs A Movable Object" battle.
yeah, I guess I'm just looking at this like its ####-or-get-off-the-pot time for Doug, Wentz, the coordinators, etc.  If ever there was a time to get right it would be on primetime against the worst defense in the league.  Do I think its possible?  Definitely.  I still refuse to believe that Wentz is as bad as he's looked.  He's been bad, but there have been a number of mitigating circumstances to amplify his apparent regression-obvious missed blocking assignments, bad route running techniques (both getting separation and also just knowing when to stop on a route), terrible in game adjustments by Doug (abandoning the run constantly when it is clearly the only thing working).  I don't expect these guys to all of a sudden become Antonio Brown-esque route runners and the Oline is what it is but the play calling IS something that can be adjusted.  I'd expect Doug to aggressively run the ball for four quarters and if he does I think they can win.  If its deep in the third quarter and Sanders has 8 rushes, then yeah, we aren't winning.  It seems obvious to me, so it should be obvious to the folks that have his ear (and frankly it should be obvious to him).  Doug has shown a willingness and more importantly an ability to adjust how he calls games to fit the needs of the team and QB (think Foles in our Super Bowl year).  I just hope the thrashing he and the team have received from the fans and the media lately scare him into recognizing a shift in philosophy is necessary here.  

 
So only reason peters is moving to rg tonight is because he has a broken toe and has lost mobility.  Has nothing to do with how bad he's looked.....

I'm sure Doug would still leave him at tackle if he was 100%

 
Eagles will win tonight.  I am pretty confident of it.  This just feels like the kind of game they win every year and start to turn things around through the end of the season.  
They did beat Seattle last year. I expected Wilson to smash in that game and he didn't.

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top