Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
Total WR1 WR2 WR3 WR4 Other2008 29 10 4 4 4 72009 26 11 7 5 2 1 2010 29 9 7 6 5 2 2011 33 11 9 7 5 1Average 29 11 7 6 4 22012? 31 13 7 6 3 2Huh? We are exactly 2 years and 1 month from when he was drafted. 3 years later is just an incorrect statement, as is the silliness to think that after two years you can already write him off from being a stud. Did you write off Calvin when in year 3, he finished #21, his second sub top 20 in 3 seasons? Andre Johnson never finished above #18 until year 6. Fitzgerald had sub top 20 seasons in year 1 and year 3 as well, you probably dumped him as well thinking season 2 was an aberration. Greg Jennings has almost exactly the same year 1 and 2 as Dez. Tons of other WRs didn't break out until year 3 or later. I wouldn't say year 2 was disappointing by historic measures and knowing he was hurt (I posted that before the article last page) and had no offseason, I think he had a good season. I also know that it is a really silly statement to think he won't ever be a stud. I read the same article and it sounded more like he has his head on straight and wants to improve on last year.'loqutis said:
Some awesome stats here (too lazy to double check them so I'll assume they're all true)
Signed,Satisfied Dez OwnerStraight from FBG's rankings on the player pages. I don't know if Dez will be a stud or not and I have only owned him once in 6 chances the last two years. Not sure if I will even keep him as it would be for a 3rd, but I am targetting him if he falls. There aren't many AJ Green's out there that have great rookie seasons. In their rookie years, the best of all guys mentioned above was Andre who finished 23rd and then he finished 22nd and 46th the next two seasons. Fitz, Jennings and Calvin all finished 30+ in their rookie years. All the studs mentioned above had at least 2 out of 3 20+ finishes in their first 3 years. It happens, even to the guys we consider the STUDs today, so to say a 23 year old (pretty young for a 3rd year NFLer) can't be a stud when he finished 19th in year two and now has less competition is just plain silly.Some awesome stats here (too lazy to double check them so I'll assume they're all true)
Part of it is from unrealistic expectations in previous years. It wasn't unusual last preseason to see people projecting Miles, Dez and Witten all having 1k+ yards and about 30 TDs spread amongst them. People made such predictions despite only the Chargers with Winslow, ever had a WR/WR/TE trio that all had 1k yards each.Straight from FBG's rankings on the player pages. I don't know if Dez will be a stud or not and I have only owned him once in 6 chances the last two years. Not sure if I will even keep him as it would be for a 3rd, but I am targetting him if he falls. There aren't many AJ Green's out there that have great rookie seasons. In their rookie years, the best of all guys mentioned above was Andre who finished 23rd and then he finished 22nd and 46th the next two seasons. Fitz, Jennings and Calvin all finished 30+ in their rookie years. All the studs mentioned above had at least 2 out of 3 20+ finishes in their first 3 years. It happens, even to the guys we consider the STUDs today, so to say a 23 year old (pretty young for a 3rd year NFLer) can't be a stud when he finished 19th in year two and now has less competition is just plain silly.Some awesome stats here (too lazy to double check them so I'll assume they're all true)
Maybe, but if Dez doesn't return that darn punt, he easily gets 1000+ with 10 TDs (had 928-9) and according to FBGs, that extra 80 yards and 1 TD would have put him at #12 right ahead of Nicks, Marshall, AJ Green and Laurent Robinson. Would that really have been a disappointing second year for a 22 year old guy?I drafted him in the 4th round (2 keeper, 12 team) and while he may have underperformed for me a tiny bit, I know he was just one stupid call by a coach away from being a WR1 and outperforming where I drafted him.Part of it is from unrealistic expectations in previous years. It wasn't unusual last preseason to see people projecting Miles, Dez and Witten all having 1k+ yards and about 30 TDs spread amongst them. People made such predictions despite only the Chargers with Winslow, ever had a WR/WR/TE trio that all had 1k yards each.Straight from FBG's rankings on the player pages. I don't know if Dez will be a stud or not and I have only owned him once in 6 chances the last two years. Not sure if I will even keep him as it would be for a 3rd, but I am targetting him if he falls. There aren't many AJ Green's out there that have great rookie seasons. In their rookie years, the best of all guys mentioned above was Andre who finished 23rd and then he finished 22nd and 46th the next two seasons. Fitz, Jennings and Calvin all finished 30+ in their rookie years. All the studs mentioned above had at least 2 out of 3 20+ finishes in their first 3 years. It happens, even to the guys we consider the STUDs today, so to say a 23 year old (pretty young for a 3rd year NFLer) can't be a stud when he finished 19th in year two and now has less competition is just plain silly.Some awesome stats here (too lazy to double check them so I'll assume they're all true)
Nicks, Green and Robinson all missed a decent amount of time due to injuries. Had they been healthy, Dez had no way of catching or passing them. That's worth pointing out if you are going to throw hypothetical's out there for Dez.Maybe, but if Dez doesn't return that darn punt, he easily gets 1000+ with 10 TDs (had 928-9) and according to FBGs, that extra 80 yards and 1 TD would have put him at #12 right ahead of Nicks, Marshall, AJ Green and Laurent Robinson. Would that really have been a disappointing second year for a 22 year old guy?I drafted him in the 4th round (2 keeper, 12 team) and while he may have underperformed for me a tiny bit, I know he was just one stupid call by a coach away from being a WR1 and outperforming where I drafted him.Part of it is from unrealistic expectations in previous years. It wasn't unusual last preseason to see people projecting Miles, Dez and Witten all having 1k+ yards and about 30 TDs spread amongst them. People made such predictions despite only the Chargers with Winslow, ever had a WR/WR/TE trio that all had 1k yards each.Straight from FBG's rankings on the player pages. I don't know if Dez will be a stud or not and I have only owned him once in 6 chances the last two years. Not sure if I will even keep him as it would be for a 3rd, but I am targetting him if he falls. There aren't many AJ Green's out there that have great rookie seasons. In their rookie years, the best of all guys mentioned above was Andre who finished 23rd and then he finished 22nd and 46th the next two seasons. Fitz, Jennings and Calvin all finished 30+ in their rookie years. All the studs mentioned above had at least 2 out of 3 20+ finishes in their first 3 years. It happens, even to the guys we consider the STUDs today, so to say a 23 year old (pretty young for a 3rd year NFLer) can't be a stud when he finished 19th in year two and now has less competition is just plain silly.Some awesome stats here (too lazy to double check them so I'll assume they're all true)
That's not a fact nor a foregone conclusion. Dez outscores all three this year over 16.Nicks, Green and Robinson all missed a decent amount of time due to injuries. Had they been healthy, Dez had no way of catching or passing them. That's worth pointing out if you are going to throw hypothetical's out there for Dez.Maybe, but if Dez doesn't return that darn punt, he easily gets 1000+ with 10 TDs (had 928-9) and according to FBGs, that extra 80 yards and 1 TD would have put him at #12 right ahead of Nicks, Marshall, AJ Green and Laurent Robinson. Would that really have been a disappointing second year for a 22 year old guy?I drafted him in the 4th round (2 keeper, 12 team) and while he may have underperformed for me a tiny bit, I know he was just one stupid call by a coach away from being a WR1 and outperforming where I drafted him.Part of it is from unrealistic expectations in previous years. It wasn't unusual last preseason to see people projecting Miles, Dez and Witten all having 1k+ yards and about 30 TDs spread amongst them. People made such predictions despite only the Chargers with Winslow, ever had a WR/WR/TE trio that all had 1k yards each.Straight from FBG's rankings on the player pages. I don't know if Dez will be a stud or not and I have only owned him once in 6 chances the last two years. Not sure if I will even keep him as it would be for a 3rd, but I am targetting him if he falls. There aren't many AJ Green's out there that have great rookie seasons. In their rookie years, the best of all guys mentioned above was Andre who finished 23rd and then he finished 22nd and 46th the next two seasons. Fitz, Jennings and Calvin all finished 30+ in their rookie years. All the studs mentioned above had at least 2 out of 3 20+ finishes in their first 3 years. It happens, even to the guys we consider the STUDs today, so to say a 23 year old (pretty young for a 3rd year NFLer) can't be a stud when he finished 19th in year two and now has less competition is just plain silly.Some awesome stats here (too lazy to double check them so I'll assume they're all true)
Satisfied Dez Owner
It is based on the criteria he said. Give Dez an extra 80 yds and a TD. Green missed a game and a half due to injury, let alone the struggle of playing through 2 separate injuries that cost him productivity. He averaged 70 yds and .46 TDs per game. That brings his total up to 1127/7, that is adding 70 yds back into his total.Nicks missed a game and a half due to injury as well. He averaged 80 yds and .46 TDs per game also. That brings his total up to 1272/7, that is adding 80 yds back into his total.Robinson missed 2 games due to injury and only started 4. He averaged 61 yds and .78 TDs per game. That brings his total up to 978/12, that is adding 120 yds and 1 TD back into his total.So no, in this circumstance Dez does not catch any of those guys. This is taking the low end of their averages as well. I'm simply using the numbers that somebody else tried to assign to Dez of 80 yds and 1 TD. You can't simply add hypothetical numbers to one guy and try to move him up in the rankings and not to others. Certainly not if they all had reasons that held them back. If the above 3 guys in question had all played 16 games and were fully healthy, then I could buy the argument. In this case however, all 4 of the guys listed missed time and you are only trying to apply missed production to 1.
Relax man, just trying to show how he was basically one stupid coaching mistake away from being #12/low end WR1. It would have been one thing had the injury been a normal one, but he got hurt on a punt return. He isn't Percy Harvin or Devin Hester, there is no reason to risk it. Again, wasn't trying to pro-rate it, just trying to mention how silly it is to say he had a disappointing season in his second year in the league and to say he can never be a stud hbecause of a single punt return.Pretty sure if he doesn't get hurt on the punt return and finishes #12, there wouldn't be the same "disappointment" for him. I guess I shouldn't keep harping on it as I would love to see him fall further in drafts. I saw the punt return and I saw him pre-injury with Revis on him and post-injury and I liked what I saw pre-inury even when covered by Revis.
I agree Dez doesn't seem to get the respect he deserves. He's a very good player. However, I think his situation is going to cap his ceiing to a certain extent for the near future - Miles Austin is very good as well and will still be heavily involved, and Witten is a terrific security blanket. It's rare that 3 receivers from the same team all end up as top fantasy scorers, so I think Dez doesn't have the upside guys like AJ Green or Calvin have because they may not be as much a focal point of the offense.
Dez has the potential to be a great WR. The question has always been his desire to not just rely on his talent and work to become a great WR. It's hard to know what will switch on that desire to work and refine his skills so they match his natural talent.
That is the toughest part with Dez. I had 3 leagues, owned Romo in 2 and Dez in one of those 2, so I watched a bunch of Cowboys games. His catches on Revis and a few others (especially one TD against Buffalo) showed a WR that IMHO has a lot of talent, the type of talent that if he realizes it, he could be one of the best. Miles Austin and Witten are good, but Austin doesn't have that if you throw it near me, it is mine regardless of who is covering me that you see in Calvin and Fitz. I saw a few catches by Dez including one with Revis on him that made me think he has that. Doesn't mean he will realize it, but there aren't that many guys who have that potential.It's funny how people interpret things, but I liked that article where he admitted being hurt and said he was disappointed in his play. That is what I think I want to here from a 23 year old NFL player. It says to me that maybe he does get it and maybe he will. If he does, it won't matter if Austin and Witten are there, he will be the #1.
Ding ding ding.
Oh, a 2nd year player who's never had an offseason can't dominate an entire game against men? He must be horrible and overrated.
Others have.....
He has had 2 seasons so far....not one. How old do you have to be to dominate a full game? Just curious so I can know when to start holding players accountable.
Nowhere in my post did I say he had only one season. I said two. Also, whatever happened to the 3rd year WR rule? Dez is the posterboy for that rule, which was held true until the recent rookie seasons of TBMW, Green, and Julio. To expect that from every rookie is a mistake IMO
Man, I don't know what you had for breakfast this morning but that is some good analysis.
I really doubt he's top 5 with Witten/Austin still around. He may be more productive than both of those guys, but there are too many options for Dez to be completely dominant IMO. If you look at the top few WRs every year, usually they are clearly the go-to guy or have one other great target - Dallas has three very good targets, and I think it's one too many.
Top 5 might be a stretch, but not as unrealistic as some would think. Dez finished 19th in PPR leagues least season, which left him 60 points shy of the top 5. If scoring holds approximately the same, it's quite conceivable that Dez could make up those 60 points given that he missed 1 game last year, given that Laurant is gone, and that he's likely to improve this game this season. There is still more than enough stats to go around between Dez, Miles, and Witten to make Dez a top 5 WR. If he's not top 10 in 2012, I'll be shocked and disappointed.
It's not the norm, but it does happen....every year you can find at least one top punt returner that is a top 20 WR. Last year it was Antonio Brown. Wes Welker had for many years returned punts and ranked in the top 10-20 for punt return yards still being a top WR in the NFL. Here's the list over the last 6-7 years of top 20 punt returners that were also elite/above average WR's:Steve SmithWes WelkerDeSean JacksonSantonio HolmesAntonio BrownWere their WR numbers hurt by returning punts? I'd say maybe or lean towards slightly. If I were a Dez owner, I'd be worried more about Dez getting injured in punt duty than decreasing his productivity on offense.
Consider how the WRs you identified ranked in seasons in which they returned 31+ punts:Smith: WR115 (2001), WR42 (2002), WR15 (2003)
You win! I don't have the time nor energy to dig into it that far. LOL.....Thanks though! I don't care if Dez returns punts or not, he'll still at the very worst be top 15, if healthy. He was #19 last season, so we can expect top 15 at the very least.'Just Win Baby said:
That became outdated about 5 years ago.
Leaders don't have to tell others they are the leader.Other thought - people in this thread putting his talent on par with physical freaks like Calvin and Fitz need to pump the breaks a bit.
I'd like to continue to see stories like this throughout the offseason. His main problem IMO is work ethic and if we can see that he's working hard and get reports back that he's turning the page and not just "raw" or a "project" it will make me much more comfortable to target him this year. He can be an absolute TD machine if he works hard and applies himself.'Faust said:
AJ Green said the same basic thing this year, as did Cam and probably a host of others that I didn't read about. I think it's being a bit nit picky to criticize him for trying to be a leader...these stories are the ones you want to read as opposed to him getting kicked out of clubs, getting pulled over by the cops, running up bills he can't pay, etc..'matuski said:
Interesting article. I wonder if Jerry's punt return comments were just motivation. Clearly Jerry knows Dez had a setback returning punts and if they think he is clearly the guy they want to be the #1 WR, you don't A) waste his off season time worrying about punt returns and B) risk him in any way on punt returns.I may have to keep him after all if I see no signs of punt returns and see him looking good in training camp/pre-season.
I know many Dez owners won't trade Dez at a discount to his potential, but if you are in a league where the Dez owner will, you better hurry up and get him, because that window of opportunity is going to close soon.He is 23 and starting to get it.....talent and situation have never been the question
What was his body fat % last year?
Bingo on motivation. The nicest thing I can say about Bryant's brainpower is he IS the least sharpest knife in the drawer. If veteran Chad Johnson Ochocinco had trouble with the Patriot pass patterns, why do you think Dez will ever run the right pattern? He just does not have the tools between the ears. His lack of mental fortitude shows up most acutely late in the game when it appears he has run out of energy or will. As a neutral Falcon and fantasy fan living here near Dallas and having watched his problems at OK State, I say: Sell
