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Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (7 Viewers)

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Flying Spaghetti Monster said:
So we close a good charity that is doing good work because some right wing extremist want to throw a tantrum and throw mud at alleged ties.  In that case we need to close every catholic charity in the world after the pedo priest scandal.
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I can't even wrap my head around this. People in government should not be in two things at once. They can't wear one hat, take it off, put it down, wear another, put that role down, pick up another... all while sitting in the same chair.

Let the Foundation be run by someone else. Thus the Good Works can continue, Hallelujah! If you love something set it free.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
I've thought about this and I agree.

- Transfer it to someone else.

- Transfer all the data that belongs to the Foundation, all the emails, financial information and all the contacts that belong to the Foundation - because it belongs to the Foundation, not the Clintons.

- Stop the dual roles found in Hillary's and Bill's staffs and with Hillary and Bill (and their daughter).

And then let's see what happens to the Foundation and how it flourishes.

Weirdly enough the Clintons don't want to do this but I agree that should be the solution.
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http://www.npr.org/2016/08/23/491092322/clinton-foundation-to-shrink-considerably-if-hillary-clinton-is-elected

The Clinton Foundation is working now to "spin off" or "find partners" for many of its programs, including all international activities and programs funded by foreign and corporate donors, the head of the Clinton Foundation told NPR's Peter Overby. The "unraveling," which would be an attempt to prevent conflicts, would go into effect if Hillary Clinton is elected president.

It will take time to make the changes to each of the foundation's affected programs, said Clinton Foundation President Donna Shalala. "This kind of unraveling has to be done with a scalpel so that we just do not hurt people, and do not interrupt the very good work that's being done," she said.

Many of the foundation's programs would become separate non-governmental organizations "without us participating in the governance obviously," Shalala said. Partner organizations, she said, would also "continue the work that was started by the Clinton Foundation."

 
TobiasFunke said:
Those of you calling for the Clinton Foundation to be shut down instead of simply removing Hillary and her immediate family or transferring it to the umbrella of a different charity, please read this story of lives saved by the Clinton Foundation in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, from someone who was actually there and is actually an expert in these matters.

I'd love to hear from anyone who reads that and still thinks the whole thing should be shut down completely and Hillary and Bill should be criticized for starting the Foundation or for accepting large donations.
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I'm going to say something nice about the Foundation (and I'm pretty sure I said it before though I don't blame people for not remembering it).

I know they do some good things across the globe. I know they did some good things for NO post Katrina. For which I thank them. :heart:

As I understand it the idea was that the Foundation would use the star power of the Clintons and their contacts to get very influential and yes wealthy and powerful people around the world and the US to use their influence for good. Now this often meant as a philosophical proposition fostering development via private means. So what happens is that you have private enterprise interacting with governments to create private, quasi-private or non-profit enterprises to help those in need.

It's not a bad idea. But people in government should not actually be doing it. As Laura Seay herself says:

Yes, there are conflicts of interest between Hillary Clinton's run for office & donations the Foundation receives. It's complex.
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Yes, it's complex, and that is a big part of the problem. So it's a good idea (at its best) so let someone else do it.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
I can't even wrap my head around this. People in government should not be in two things at once. They can't wear one hat, take it off, put it down, wear another, put that role down, pick up another... all while sitting in the same chair.

Let the Foundation be run by someone else. Thus the Good Works can continue, Hallelujah! If you love something set it free.
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Transfer is fine. I just have a problem with shutting it down. I say give it to the daughter and let her run it while she is in office.   

 
Flying Spaghetti Monster said:
Transfer is fine. I just have a problem with shutting it down. I say give it to the daughter and let her run it while she is in office.   
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If only so we can laugh at the hypocrisy of people who would complain about the arrangement but said not one word about the speaking fees and charitable work of various Bush family members while their children/siblings were campaigning or in office.

 
TobiasFunke said:
If only so we can laugh at the hypocrisy of people who would complain about the arrangement but said not one word about the speaking fees and charitable work of various Bush family members while their children/siblings were campaigning or in office.
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:shrug:  I haven't said a negative word about Chelsea Clinton and her career.  That's a much better analogy to the Bush family.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
:shrug:  I haven't said a negative word about Chelsea Clinton and her career.  That's a much better analogy to the Bush family.
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I didn't say that you had, GB.  Was just saying that you can be sure if they did was FSM proposed and left Chelsea in charge there would be plenty of critics who fit that description.  And that it would be funny when they did.

 
Flying Spaghetti Monster said:
Transfer is fine. I just have a problem with shutting it down. I say give it to the daughter and let her run it while she is in office.   
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Guys fyi Chelsea will for all practical purposes be the First Lady. Let's let the Clintons have a chance to stop going down that road of conflict of interest / dual roles or just ask them to. They're going to be the President, 1st Hub and de facto First Lady. Let's act like a normal government moving forward.

 
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Does anybody really know if the foundation does do great work.  It sounds like most of the work is trying to change perceptions on issues like Global Warming or assisting people in getting access to help.  The salaries tend to be top-heavy with a lot of people making six figures.  Lots of travel expenses and expenses for conferences.  There is no real evidence that it is an effectively run organization.   

 
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So what's the story with her Star Trek jackets? She hiding a back brace, adult diapers, an ekg machine? What's going on back there? :oldunsure:

 
Megaton said:
Does anybody really know if the foundation does do great work.  It sounds like most of the work is trying to change perceptions on issues like Global Warming or assisting people in getting access to help.  The salaries tend to be top-heavy with a lot of people making six figures.  Lots of travel expenses and expenses for conferences.  There is no real evidence that it is an effectively run organization.   
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The work they did in Haiti was great...if you are connected to the Clintons it worked out very well for you...the Haitians...mot so much...disclaimer that this is not a link from the New York Times or Huffington Post so it must be false...

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/437883/hillarys-america-secret-history-democratic-party-dinesh-dsouza-clinton-foundation

 
Megaton said:
Does anybody really know if the foundation does do great work.  It sounds like most of the work is trying to change perceptions on issues like Global Warming or assisting people in getting access to help.  The salaries tend to be top-heavy with a lot of people making six figures.  Lots of travel expenses and expenses for conferences.  There is no real evidence that it is an effectively run organization.   
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The foundation has 11 major programmes focusing on agriculture in Africa, combating childhood obesity, economic development in South America, earthquake relief in Haiti, reducing the cost of Aids drugs and mitigating climate change.

The rating group Charity Watch gives the Clinton Foundation an "A" and reports that 88% of the money the foundation brings in goes to its programmes, with the rest spent on overheads - surpassing the benchmark for reputable charity groups.
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I linked to a story of the Clinton Foundation doing a lot of good and saving lives just a couple posts ago.  You don't even have to look back for it, should be on this very page.  And googling "Clinton Foundation good works" give you more examples, as well as multiple fact check services correcting false claims that the Foundation doesn't do much charity work.

But don't let the truth get in the way of some good old uninformed Clinton-bashing. No reason to start now.

 
It's not a bad idea. But people in government should not actually be doing it.
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Serious question - if it was called the "Bill and Chelsea Foundation" would have have made it all better?

 
Very selective quoting from an article which is critical of the claims and says there is no auditing and no real way to verify the claims.  Other ranking organizations have not been all that favorable to the Clinton Foundation. 

 
TobiasFunke said:
I linked to a story of the Clinton Foundation doing a lot of good and saving lives just a couple posts ago.  You don't even have to look back for it, should be on this very page.  And googling "Clinton Foundation good works" give you more examples, as well as multiple fact check services correcting false claims that the Foundation doesn't do much charity work.

But don't let the truth get in the way of some good old uninformed Clinton-bashing. No reason to start now.
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Reports on the work of the foundation is all over the map with no way to verify the claims or way to evaluate the effectiveness of the organization.  Give me $2 billion and I could provide a lot more concrete examples of helping people.  In a lot of cases the Clinton Foundation is just the conduit for the aid and not the actual provider.  It is easy to spin things as positive or negative based on the sketchy information provided depending on ones assumptions.  Many charity rating organizations chose not to rate them because of their unorthodox methods.  

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
No, the name is obviously irrelevant.

I also think Teneo is a bigger problem from an ethical standpoint though it is rarely discussed.
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Don't know about Teneo, will read about that. 

Every ex-President is going to have a charity so are we supposed to exclude every First Lady/Husband from running for President?

 
Flying Spaghetti Monster said:
So we close a good charity that is doing good work because some right wing extremist want to throw a tantrum and throw mud at alleged ties.  In that case we need to close every catholic charity in the world after the pedo priest scandal.
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You are really embarrassing yourself.

 
PlasmaDogPlasma said:
It has to be shut down? Can't Hillary, Bill and Chelsea just remove themselves from it?
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The only problem is without them the foundation is worthless. The whole purpose of donating to the CF is to gain favors with the US government.

Go watch Clinton Cash, it breaks down things in a way that even UIs can understand.

 
Gucci Fur said:
The only problem is without them the foundation is worthless. The whole purpose of donating to the CF is to gain favors with the US government.

Go watch Clinton Cash, it breaks down things in a way that even UIs can understand.
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It's funny how everyone blew right past my post about the meeting and subsequent favors with Bahrain. 

 
Gucci Fur said:
The only problem is without them the foundation is worthless. The whole purpose of donating to the CF is to gain favors with the US government.

Go watch Clinton Cash, it breaks down things in a way that even UIs can understand.
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Talk about embarrassing yourself.

 
Gucci Fur said:
Even the senior politics editor at Huffpo thinks the CF definitely needs to be shut down.

http://www.breitbart.com/video/2016/08/24/huffpos-stein-clinton-foundation-definitely-needs-to-be-shut-down-it-did-influence-foreign-policy-because-donors-got-access/

Trigger warning @SaintsInDome2006 ,the link is Breitbart. They are reporting on an interview from MSNBC with someone from Huffpo though, hopefully that passes the unbiased test.
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Fyi. Here's the actual link. HTH.

https://grabien.com/story.php?id=62994

 
Why do these middle eastern countries with horrible records on woman's issues and human rights donate large sums of money to an organization dedicated to AIDS work and women's rights?

 
Megaton said:
Here is a source which dig into the specifics and gets way beyond the spin of how the Clinton foundation operates and what it really does.  

https://medium.com/@ASterling/clinton-foundation-charity-grade-d-close-all-branches-now-5bed9b74b85b#.lk8r1h8am
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I read this. It's pretty incoherent. I see many unsupported claims and conclusions. Lots of supposition, but mostly what I took from it is that the author really doesn't know what's going on and doesn't have enough information to make any sort of determination. But McDonalds and Monsanto are involved, so it must all be bad. She also apparently doesn't understand mission statements or how they're formulated, but decides to waste time talking about the foundation's statement (which is actually a clear mission statement).

Much of her content here seems to be garbled repackaging of stuff Charles Ortel wrote. You'd probably be better off just going straight to that source for your purposes. Hers is just a meandering blog post. Now some of you may dismiss Ortel as a Brietbart guy, but he actually has put a ton of work into his analysis, and I think his questions/concerns bear discussion.

 
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Gucci Fur said:
:lmao:

I think that website just gave my phone HIV.
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No I've seen that site before it has some good original news clips. - Fwiw about the actual content - what's new? The conflicts aren't different, the appearance of conflict isn't different, nothing has changed since the Foundation was created.... watching the video I think Stein brings up that the Foundation could be transferred or spun off, not necessarily shut down. And actually while Clinton advocates are calling for a transfer I think the Clintons themselves suggesting shut down would be a bad sign for them, because to me that indicated they are worried about transferring internal financials, contacts, and the Clintons view all that as personal, private, proprietary. And really the names and numbers and personal appeal really I think have always been in their own pockets, and that's the problem, in many ways this is not a distinct entity.

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
No I've seen that site before it has some good original news clips. - Fwiw about the actual content - what's new? The conflicts aren't different, the appearance of conflict isn't different, nothing has changed since the Foundation was created.... watching the video I think Stein brings up that the Foundation could be transferred or spun off, not necessarily shut down. And actually while Clinton advocates are calling for a transfer I think the Clintons themselves suggesting shut down a bad sign for them, because to me that indicated they are worried about transferring internal financials, contacts, and the Cluntons view all that as personal, private, proprietary. And really the names and numbers and personal appeal really I think have always been in their own pockets, and that's the problem, in many ways this is not a distinct entity.
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The worst part is they already used the deleted email fib so they'll have to figure out another lie to hide their corruption...

 
So is this the same kind of crap going on in the Trump thread too?  I can't fathom why would take on the mission of defending either Clinton or Trump...boggles the mind really.

 
Gr00vus said:
I read this. It's pretty incoherent. I see many unsupported claims and conclusions. Lots of supposition, but mostly what I took from it is that the author really doesn't know what's going on and doesn't have enough information to make any sort of determination. But McDonalds and Monsanto are involved, so it must all be bad. She also apparently doesn't understand mission statements or how they're formulated, but decides to waste time talking about the foundation's statement (which is actually a clear mission statement).

Much of her content here seems to be garbled repackaging of stuff Charles Ortel wrote. You'd probably be better off just going straight to that source for your purposes. Hers is just a meandering blog post. Now some of you may dismiss Ortel as a Brietbart guy, but he actually has put a ton of work into his analysis, and I think his questions/concerns bear discussion.
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Not surprised the details were obtained elsewhere.  It was not a great source, but I thought the information was interesting.  

 
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