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Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (9 Viewers)

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AAAll-Stars said:
In comparison to Hillary, Trump is easily the liberal choice for those who care about Minorities, Women, The Poor, Unions, and many other groups/issues. See all right here in my post. Detailed Analysis. Also, feel free to give comments on things that don't work and need improvement, I'm open to what you have to say and I'm still ironing some things out.

2. Why? Hillary has more hallmarks of a cult of personalty then Trump does which I explained in this post here. I'd love to hear a detailed counterpoint.

3. Cite your courses on self-serving xenophobic bigotry. Until then, I'll just assume the voices in your head told you to think that.

4. It seems like I do more then you do. Nice no links bub.

5. I actually contribute statistical analysis and references citations to the discussion. Who knew raising the bar of scholarly discussion was a form of trolling?
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:lol:  

This is laughable. You have yet to prove anything...and sorry, using quotes or sources that knowingly agree with your opinion is not proof. 

Troll away.  :thumbup:

 
timschochet said:
It's really sad that so many Sanders fans, and the Sanders campaign itself, has joined the Republicans with these false charges of corruption. Bernie was asked again by Dana Bash over the weekend to name a single example of how Hillary was influenced by corporate sponsors. He could not, because there isn't any. I know that I'm not the only Clinton fan who's sick of this. I watched Barney Frank tonight on TV and he was really pissed off about it. He basically called the Sanders campaign "a bunch of damn liars", and I gotta say there's something to this. 
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Bernie's honest enough to tell us he can't speak to Hillary's core.  What's gotten lost in all this, is that 95% of the time, he stops short of making the direct correlation because of this.  This "non answer" or "can't answer" stuff is nonsense.  He could give incident after incident where she's turned her head and looked the other direction or simply took no action at all, but what's the point?  It would be dismissed and shrugged off as "not proof" ignoring the reality that it is evidence in the larger picture.  The bill with Warren is a perfect example of what Bernie is talking about and what do we get here in the FFA?  Questions like "is it EXACTLY the same?"  Willful ignorance is a powerful tool that is a fool's folly to attempt and overcome.

 
tommyGunZ said:
Tim, give it up, you're not going to change Saints or any of the hard core Hillary haters minds.  People who aren't in fantasy land know that this race has been over for awhile now, and more will sober up after tomorrow.  

3 months from now virtually all these folks will be on board supporting Hillary. There will be a couple of clowns who will refuse to get on board, but that type of childishness will be rare.  

Be satisfied with being right tim. 
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Tommy thinking tommy is the smartest guy in the thread is always good schtick. Keep up the good work.

 
tommyGunZ said:
AnonymousBob said:
I agree it's a shame these baseless accusations have been flung against a woman who has a shining history of moral integrity. I'm tired of all these attacks being thrown against her for absolutely zero reasons beyond systematic sexism and vengeful conspiracies from the right wing.
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Remember back in the day when Bernie was above character acts and negative ads?
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Could be worse...he could be making it all up out of thin air. :lol:   Love that bringing up her actions/judgment is a "negative ad" now...can't make this #### up.

 
tommyGunZ said:
There never is a smoking gun, just insinuations and innuendo.  

Really sad that what started off as a positive, well run campaign focused on the issues has devolved into Sanders supporters assassinating the character of the Democratic nominee.  
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Smoking guns are things police seize when a crime has been committed with it.

The FBI seized Hillary's email server last August.

HTH

 
The Commish said:
Could be worse...he could be making it all up out of thin air. :lol:   Love that bringing up her actions/judgment is a "negative ad" now...can't make this #### up.
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Remember back in the day when Tommy was a progressive and not just spewing establishment talking points?

Ironic that he and Bernie where among the select few predicting the real estate meltdown and now he's supporting the guys and gals who created it.

 
The burden of proof is on you. 

Agreed. Here's all the information and articles for you to read.

That's not proof.

Did you read them?

No, why would I? The burden of proof is on you.

 
AAAll-Stars said:
In comparison to Hillary, Trump is easily the liberal choice for those who care about Minorities, Women, The Poor, Unions, and many other groups/issues. See all right here in my post. Detailed Analysis. Also, feel free to give comments on things that don't work and need improvement, I'm open to what you have to say and I'm still ironing some things out.

2. Why? Hillary has more hallmarks of a cult of personalty then Trump does which I explained in this post here. I'd love to hear a detailed counterpoint.

3. Cite your courses on self-serving xenophobic bigotry. Until then, I'll just assume the voices in your head told you to think that.

4. It seems like I do more then you do. Nice no links bub.

5. I actually contribute statistical analysis and references citations to the discussion. Who knew raising the bar of scholarly discussion was a form of trolling?
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Holy moly.  If this is some sort of Trump/Sanders parody account, kudos for your commitment to the bit my man.

 
timschochet said:
It's really sad that so many Sanders fans, and the Sanders campaign itself, has joined the Republicans with these false charges of corruption. Bernie was asked again by Dana Bash over the weekend to name a single example of how Hillary was influenced by corporate sponsors. He could not, because there isn't any. I know that I'm not the only Clinton fan who's sick of this. I watched Barney Frank tonight on TV and he was really pissed off about it. He basically called the Sanders campaign "a bunch of damn liars", and I gotta say there's something to this. 
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I see. There's something to this.

 
Rich Conway said:
The burden of proof is on you. 

Agreed. Here's all the information and articles for you to read.

That's not proof.

Did you read them?

No, why would I? The burden of proof is on you.
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If this is directed at me, I read everything Saints has posted. I simply don't agree with his conclusions. Or yours. 

 
Rich Conway said:
The burden of proof is on you. 

Agreed. Here's all the information and articles for you to read.

That's not proof.

Did you read them?

No, why would I? The burden of proof is on you.
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It's a labor of love Rich :D

That said, nothing short of Hillary uttering the words "I broke the law and should be punished" will suffice with some.  Even then there will be apologists.  Politics does weird things to the human brain.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
You have:

- a nominee who has been fingerprinted by the FBI 

- appeared before a grand jury

- had an indictment prepared against her

- had her email server seized by the FBI (yeah ok that's an actual smoking gun)

- and is currently under investigation by the FBI and is due to be interviewed by them.

But no indictments.
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Built my own server and now the FBI sweatin' me

But I wiped with a cloth so there ain't nothin' to see

/Hillary 'Hi-C' Clinton

 
The sum of your arguments seems to be: she's been accused of so much bad #### over the years that we KNOW she's corrupt and a bad person, even if we can't prove it in any given instance. 

The sum of my arguments is that Hillary and her husband have, over the years, done a lot of stuff on the edge of legality, and engaged in some shady behavior, but never over the line. And my position fits in just as well with all of the available evidence as yours does. 

Now for some of you, if Hillary Clinton has been engaged in shady behavior on the edge of legality, that should disqualify her from being President. It doesn't for me. IMO, the Presidency should be about the big picture, and issues like how she worked at Madison or fired the White House Travel Office or chose to use a private email server as Secretary of State are irrelevant to how she'll deal with climate change or Syria. This position does NOT make me an "ends justifies the means" guy; if Hillary was a murderer or a child molester or a bigot I could never support her. If I believed, as many of you do, that she was a truly corrupt person, I could never support her. But I believe she is generally a good person who at times has been a political opportunist who has taken personal advantage of her positions in life. That's not great, but it's not disqualifying IMO either. 

 
cstu said:
Built my own server and now the FBI sweatin' me

But I wiped with a cloth so there ain't nothin' to see

/Hillary 'Hi-C' Clinton
Click to expand...


Condi and the General's emails fit the same distortion.

Oh, what, they didn't? Hey, let's change the subject back to abortion.

 
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timschochet said:
If this is directed at me, I read everything Saints has posted. I simply don't agree with his conclusions. Or yours. 
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Why in the world would you read every link/article Saints posts? Did you miss all of the previous scandal threads where I'd estimate 90% of the articles he linked to turned out to be wild speculation that turned out to be wrong, if not outright lies?  

 
tommyGunZ said:
Why in the world would you read every link/article Saints posts? Did you miss all of the previous scandal threads where I'd estimate 90% of the articles he linked to turned out to be wild speculation that turned out to be wrong, if not outright lies?  
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I'm a sucker for this stuff. Back in the day I used to listen to George Putnam- remember him? Local talk guy, obsessed with the Clintons. Went from one scandal to the next. Never could prove anything and it was always getting debunked but it never stopped him. 

 
timschochet said:
The sum of your arguments seems to be: she's been accused of so much bad #### over the years that we KNOW she's corrupt and a bad person, even if we can't prove it in any given instance. 

The sum of my arguments is that Hillary and her husband have, over the years, done a lot of stuff on the edge of legality, and engaged in some shady behavior, but never over the line. And my position fits in just as well with all of the available evidence as yours does. 

Now for some of you, if Hillary Clinton has been engaged in shady behavior on the edge of legality, that should disqualify her from being President. It doesn't for me. IMO, the Presidency should be about the big picture, and issues like how she worked at Madison or fired the White House Travel Office or chose to use a private email server as Secretary of State are irrelevant to how she'll deal with climate change or Syria. This position does NOT make me an "ends justifies the means" guy; if Hillary was a murderer or a child molester or a bigot I could never support her. If I believed, as many of you do, that she was a truly corrupt person, I could never support her. But I believe she is generally a good person who at times has been a political opportunist who has taken personal advantage of her positions in life. That's not great, but it's not disqualifying IMO either. 
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So the line of demarcation is murder, child molestation or bigotry...good to see you hold the office of the Presidency is such high regard...back to Hillary...what are her concrete accomplishments that would indicate she would be a good President?

 
Henry Ford said:
Condi and the General's emails fit the same distortion.

Oh, what, they didn't? Hey, let's change the subject back to abortion.
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Any TS or SCI emails in either of those two folks' private address?  That's the issue.  

 
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Boston said:
...back to Hillary...what are her concrete accomplishments that would indicate she would be a good President?
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It seems like every few weeks or so somebody, usually a conservative, asks me this same question. I have answered it so many times I'm feeling a little bored with it. You're welcome to look through the thread if you'd like. Frankly though, I don't think the "she has no experience" or "she has done nothing" arguments are going to work with anybody who is not already solidly opposed to Hillary Clinton. 

 
Just listened to Hillary give a tremendous speech to the building trade unions about her plans for infrastructure spending. It's too early for a transcript, so I am going to post her proposal directly from her website. IMO, it blows away every other candidate. 

 
timschochet said:
Just listened to Hillary give a tremendous speech to the building trade unions about her plans for infrastructure spending. It's too early for a transcript, so I am going to post her proposal directly from her website. IMO, it blows away every other candidate. 
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How many references to "shovel ready" did we get?  

 
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/infrastructure/

  • Boost federal infrastructure investment by $275 billion over the next five years. Under Hillary’s plan, $250 billion would go directly to public infrastructure investment.
  • Create a $25 billion national infrastructure bank. Hillary will allocate an additional $25 billion over five years to create an independent, government-owned infrastructure bank that will support critical infrastructure improvements. The bank will provide loans and other federal support for investments in energy, water, broadband, transportation, and multi-modal infrastructure projects.
  • Reauthorize a Build America Bonds program to help finance the rebuilding of America’s infrastructure. Hillary would re-authorize President Obama’s highly successful Build America Bonds (BABs) program to stimulate billions of additional dollars in infrastructure investments.
 
That's a quick summary- there's much more detail on her website. In her speech, Hillary made the point that it takes just as long for a freight train to travel through the city of Chicago as it does for that same train to get to Chicago from the west coast- mainly because of infrastructure delays. She estimated that the breakdowns in our roads, railways, electrical grid etc is costing each American $1500 per year, not to mention the hours that we waste on traffic and delays. Yet Ted Cruz wants to cut infrastructure spending! 

This issue alone is a good reason to support Hillary Clinton, IMO. 

 
Hillary on small businesses:

  • Unlocking access to capital. Hillary is committed to giving small businesses—and in particular, women- and minority-owned small businesses—access to the financing they need to build, grow, and hire. She will ease unnecessary regulatory burdens on community banks, which provide credit to small business owners and families looking to invest in their futures. She will support innovative new financing modes like impact investing. And she will double support for community development financial institutions and the successful State Small Business Credit Initiative, which offer crucial sources of support for small businesses across the country—particularly in underserved communities.
  • Cutting red tape. It shouldn’t take longer to start a small business in the United States than it does in Canada, France, or South Korea. Hillary will launch a nationwide effort to cut red tape for small businesses at every level of government. And she will build a regulatory roadmap to help small businesses navigate the regulatory landscape and reduce compliance costs associated with federal, state, and local regulation.
  • Providing tax relief. America’s smallest businesses—those with one to five employees—spend 150 hours and $1,100 per employee to comply with federal taxes. That’s more than 20 times higher than the average for larger firms. Hillary will simplify tax filing and provide targeted tax relief for small businesses—not big corporations that can afford lawyers and lobbyists.
  • Tapping new markets. Every small business across America should be able to enter new markets—whether they’re across town or across the world. Hillary will invest in the roads, bridges, ports, and airports that make it easier for small businesses to reach new customers. She will defend the Export-Import Bank, a crucial financing partner for small businesses across America, and help the bank expand its small business programs. And she will encourage innovations—like Etsy and eBay—that are unlocking new markets through innovative new platforms that let small businesses sell anywhere in America and the world.
  • Supporting small-business owners and entrepreneurs. Hillary will work toprovide incubators, mentoring, and training to 50,000 entrepreneurs and small-business owners in underserved communities across the country. And she will support the development of entrepreneurial skills among young people—even kids in high school—so they can increase both their financial and entrepreneurial literacy. These programs will help those with good ideas today become the entrepreneurs and business leaders of tomorrow.
 
It seems to me that when she talks about cutting red tape on small businesses and simplifying taxes for them, that conservatives should get behind her on this. 

 
Hillary on energy:

  • Defend, implement, and extend smart pollution and efficiency standards,including the Clean Power Plan, which will prevent 3,600 premature deaths and 90,000 asthma attacks annually, and efficiency standards for cars, trucks and appliances that are already reducing energy costs for American households and businesses by over $75 billion per year.
  • Launch a $60 billion Clean Energy Challenge to partner with states, cities, and rural communities and give them the tools and resources they need to go beyond federal standards in cutting carbon pollution and expanding clean energy. The Clean Energy Challenge will also help ensure all Americans share in the benefits of a clean energy economy by encouraging solar and energy efficiency investments in low-income communities.
  • Invest in clean energy infrastructure, innovation, manufacturing and workforce development to make the U.S. economy more competitive and create good paying jobs and careers. Hillary has a comprehensive plan for making existing energy infrastructure cleaner and safer, unlocking new investment, and forging a climate compact with Canada and Mexico to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and accelerate clean energy deployment across the continent.
  • Ensure safe and responsible energy production. As we transition to a clean energy economy, we must ensure that the fossil fuel production taking place today is safe and responsible and that areas too sensitive for energy production are taken off the table. Hillary knows there are some places where we should keep fossil fuels in the ground or under the ocean.
 
timschochet said:
That's a quick summary- there's much more detail on her website. In her speech, Hillary made the point that it takes just as long for a freight train to travel through the city of Chicago as it does for that same train to get to Chicago from the west coast- mainly because of infrastructure delays. She estimated that the breakdowns in our roads, railways, electrical grid etc is costing each American $1500 per year, not to mention the hours that we waste on traffic and delays. Yet Ted Cruz wants to cut infrastructure spending! 

This issue alone is a good reason to support Hillary Clinton, IMO. 
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does she know how long it takes a bullet train to travel from Madera to Fresno?

 
OK, so I've just posted 3 areas (infrastructure, small businesses, and energy) that are vital to our economy, and that Hillary Clinton is the only candidate offering specific plans that are feasible. If you guys want to know why I'm supporting her, (and why I think you should too) here it is. This is REALLY good stuff. 

 
timschochet said:
That's a quick summary- there's much more detail on her website. In her speech, Hillary made the point that it takes just as long for a freight train to travel through the city of Chicago as it does for that same train to get to Chicago from the west coast- mainly because of infrastructure delays. She estimated that the breakdowns in our roads, railways, electrical grid etc is costing each American $1500 per year, not to mention the hours that we waste on traffic and delays. Yet Ted Cruz wants to cut infrastructure spending! 

This issue alone is a good reason to support Hillary Clinton, IMO. 
Click to expand...
No way this is true.

 
timschochet said:
Well that's what she said. I suppose there's a way to verify it. 
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I'm totally on board with her on the high priority of infrastructure spending, but I think that line is used more for emphasis than anything else. I dunno. Just chiming in as someone who knows how long it takes to get from here to the West Coast on wheels. 

 
pantagrapher said:
No way this is true.
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When I worked in Chicago for an international shipping line about 25 years ago it was true. So true that we never used the railroad to shunt across town between rail operators but had a small army of truckers hauling the containers across the city.

 
timschochet said:
That's a quick summary- there's much more detail on her website. In her speech, Hillary made the point that it takes just as long for a freight train to travel through the city of Chicago as it does for that same train to get to Chicago from the west coast- mainly because of infrastructure delays. She estimated that the breakdowns in our roads, railways, electrical grid etc is costing each American $1500 per year, not to mention the hours that we waste on traffic and delays. Yet Ted Cruz wants to cut infrastructure spending! 

This issue alone is a good reason to support Hillary Clinton, IMO. 
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As someone who drives a lot and sees non-stop construction I have two questions...did she mention anything about accountability with regard to spending in this area and deadlines for completing jobs?

 
Boston said:
As someone who drives a lot and sees non-stop construction I have two questions...did she mention anything about accountability with regard to spending in this area and deadlines for completing jobs?
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No. Were you expecting that? I suppose we should reject the proposal then. 

 
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