*** Official Lost Season 6 *** (2 Viewers)

[Carver]

Someone please remind me when all the other non-speaking role losties died off... There were a bunch of them in the beginning.

Boone fell with the plain, Libby and Anna Lucia were shot to death by Michael, Boones sis (name escapes me) was also shot I believe.Artz blew up with the dynamite at the black rock, Charlie drowned saving them down in the looking glass?

Nah... I mean all the non speaking role survivors... the ones who just kind of stood around in the background and followed Jack all over the place.

 

[bostonfred]

Someone please remind me when all the other non-speaking role losties died off... There were a bunch of them in the beginning.

Boone fell with the plain, Libby and Anna Lucia were shot to death by Michael, Boones sis (name escapes me) was also shot I believe.Artz blew up with the dynamite at the black rock, Charlie drowned saving them down in the looking glass?

Nah... I mean all the non speaking role survivors... the ones who just kind of stood around in the background and followed Jack all over the place.

Some died when Kimmy and the bad guys came to the compound and shot it up. Some went with Locke to the temple. Some went away with Jack and hid. I don't know if that's all of them.

 

[Twilight]

Someone please remind me when all the other non-speaking role losties died off... There were a bunch of them in the beginning.

Boone fell with the plain, Libby and Anna Lucia were shot to death by Michael, Boones sis (name escapes me) was also shot I believe.Artz blew up with the dynamite at the black rock, Charlie drowned saving them down in the looking glass?

Nah... I mean all the non speaking role survivors... the ones who just kind of stood around in the background and followed Jack all over the place.

Some died when Kimmy and the bad guys came to the compound and shot it up. Some went with Locke to the temple. Some went away with Jack and hid. I don't know if that's all of them.

Right after Ben turned the Donkey Wheel, the few who survived the Dharmaville attack were killed by the Others in the flaming arrow attack.

 

[larry_boy_44]

That is awfully strange, because at the same time that little mechanism was there, they also had the Sonic Wall little tesla coils up preventing the smoke monster from getting in, correct?

The fence could be disabled to allow people to go in and out and once the mercs were in, I presumed that the sonic fence was disabled, therefore there was nothing preventing Smokey from getting in once Ben used the summoning mechanism.

Right, but why try to keep something out that you also have the ability to use/control?

maybe he didn't summon smokey but just took a chance that by shutting down part/all of the fence that Smokey would show up and do his dirty work for him...

didn't the others say that Smokey was a "security system"???Maybe the others didn't understand what Smokey actually was/is... just like Ben didn't know/understand/realize who Jacob was and the reality of that situation...

 

[larry_boy_44]

And I don't think it really HAD to be Locke, but rather Locke was the most logical choice, as the flight needed to be as close to the same as it was when the first crashed, and he just so happened to be a vessel MIB could use.Or, maybe Farraday's mother knew all along that MIB could take over Lockes body, and that was the sole reason for her insistance they all go, they all didn't really need to go, but if she said they did, it explained away why they had to bring a dead body.

I don't have a problem with MiB morphing into Locke - it's weird, but that's fine.I just want to know how Ben's group and the Others are associated with MiB.Did no one including Eloise have any idea this was going to happen if they did this?I don't see how Ben isn't associated with MiB somehow... i mean, in that one episode when Keamy's group was on the island, he went in and unleashed a switch that let the smoke monster out to wipe those dudes out.So they're like friends and stuff, right?My head hurts. I'm still not sure if this is completely dumb or potentially interesting.

I tend to agree with Harry Manback and The Dude in that it didn't HAVE to be Locke, but he was convenient and MiB already planted the seed in him that he would have to die to make things right. Not right by John Locke, but right by MiB.When Ilana, etc. brought Locke back, I don't think they knew they were reincarnating Locke into UnLocke. I think Jacob somehow knew that MiB would manifest himself as Locke and thus he instructed Ilana to bring Locke's corpse back so they could have proof that MiB had manifested himself with a different look.Ben's and his former followers were associated with MiB because he's apparently been guiding Ben all along, when they were under the assumption it was Jacob.I wouldn't say they're "friends" but MiB seemingly has a history of keeping people he needs to do his dirty work around.

Locke's not the key here; Ben is.MIB was really looking to manipulate Ben into killing Jacob. Between the manifestation in the temple (appearing as Alex) and Ben's having killed Locke (although how MIB knew - could he have manipulated Ben into killing Locke off-island???) put MIB in a position (as Locke) to push Ben into knifing Jacob.So I'm not so sure who else it could have been if not Locke. Who else would have worked to get Ben to do the dirty work?

I think that we are missing a few of the most important questions:1. Where is Christian's body? (in BOTH worlds... the body was NOT in the casket on the island, Jack confirmed that to Hurley a couple episodes... in the sideways world, the body wasn't in the casket upon landing in LA)2. Who was Christian? Was Christian smokey? Was Christian Jacob? Was Christian someone else entirely?

 

[larry_boy_44]

question...

since when were there slave ships bound for the new world in 1867???

 

[larry_boy_44]

Someone please remind me when all the other non-speaking role losties died off... There were a bunch of them in the beginning.

Boone fell with the plain, Libby and Anna Lucia were shot to death by Michael, Boones sis (name escapes me) was also shot I believe.Artz blew up with the dynamite at the black rock, Charlie drowned saving them down in the looking glass?

Nah... I mean all the non speaking role survivors... the ones who just kind of stood around in the background and followed Jack all over the place.

they were slowly offed...then all the rest were killed when the time travelling started...

 

[kaa]

question...

since when were there slave ships bound for the new world in 1867???

Slave ships were banned in the 1830s, but an illegal slave trade existed until at least the 1860s. Magnus Hanso, captain of the Black Rock, was dealing in illegal slave trading.http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Magnus_Hanso

With Magnus Hanso's sale of the New World Sea Traders, an era in British shipping drew to a close. Whether history will judge him harshly for his continued role in the slave trade post-abolition remains to be seen.

 

[Sack-Religious]

Someone please remind me when all the other non-speaking role losties died off... There were a bunch of them in the beginning.

Boone fell with the plain, Libby and Anna Lucia were shot to death by Michael, Boones sis (name escapes me) was also shot I believe.Artz blew up with the dynamite at the black rock, Charlie drowned saving them down in the looking glass?

Nah... I mean all the non speaking role survivors... the ones who just kind of stood around in the background and followed Jack all over the place.

Some died when Kimmy and the bad guys came to the compound and shot it up. Some went with Locke to the temple. Some went away with Jack and hid. I don't know if that's all of them.

Right after Ben turned the Donkey Wheel, the few who survived the Dharmaville attack were killed by the Others in the flaming arrow attack.

RIP - Frogurt

 

[ScottNorwood]

I didn't care for that episode because it didn't really reveal much. Its already been strongly hinted at that Richard Alpert arrived on the island in chains on the ship, and that he was made immortal by being touched by Jacob. So seeing it was nothing new. Unfortunately they wasted about 20 minutes showing us what we already knew. We also already new Jacob and the MiB were warring with each other like gods. We already understood the mechanic that Jacob was the island guardian acting as MiB's jailor, so calling the island a "cork" was no revelation at all. So the interaction between Jacob and MiB didn't tell us anything at all.

Wow, that was my feeling as well - I was waiting for someone else to post it and draw the heat. I don't feel the answers we got - how he ended up in chains and how it was arranged that he wouldn't age - were very important questions.

I think what's really annoying is that they marketed that season by saying 'all your questions will be answered'. So that's setting our expectations. I'd probably enjoy this season more if I wasn't expecting answers and was just going along for the ride.

 

[beer 30]

I didn't care for that episode because it didn't really reveal much. Its already been strongly hinted at that Richard Alpert arrived on the island in chains on the ship, and that he was made immortal by being touched by Jacob. So seeing it was nothing new. Unfortunately they wasted about 20 minutes showing us what we already knew. We also already new Jacob and the MiB were warring with each other like gods. We already understood the mechanic that Jacob was the island guardian acting as MiB's jailor, so calling the island a "cork" was no revelation at all. So the interaction between Jacob and MiB didn't tell us anything at all.

Wow, that was my feeling as well - I was waiting for someone else to post it and draw the heat. I don't feel the answers we got - how he ended up in chains and how it was arranged that he wouldn't age - were very important questions.

Big surprise

I was completely shocked by this as well.

 

[Sack-Religious]

Doc Jensen's blog between the Sawyer episode and the Richard episode. Some interesting tie-ins with previous episodes.

http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/03/19/doc-jens...-smoke-monster/

Doc Jensen Weekend Edition: Do Sawyer + Juliet = The Smoke Monster?

by Jeff Jensen

Doc Jensen learned two very important lessons this week. The first? Limit yourself to just one sentence per column that refers to yourself in the third person, because it’s super-annoying. The second? Perhaps I should spend less time looking outside of Lost for insight and more time looking within the show for insight. Take my recap of “Recon” from Wednesday. It’s filled with references to The Fisher King, The Book of Judges, and Jean-Paul Sartre. If I had more time, I would have larded it up further by arguing that the mythic one-eyed monster Cyclops (Homer edition) and the comic book characters Swamp Thing and Man Thing help explain UnLocke the Smoke Thing. I did the research. I really did. It’s a sickness.

Here’s what’s worse. If I had only used the time to research past Lost episodes, I would have found a reference that’s far more interesting and perhaps actually helpful for viewers to know. Because now that I have thought about it, the more “Recon” has revealed itself to be a twin to “The Other Woman,” the season 4 episode devoted to Juliet. It’s a clever association. In “Recon,” we saw Sideways James Ford (don’t call him Sawyer!) blunder his way through a doomed date with Sideways Charlotte Lewis. Fans were outraged. We had been hoping/expecting to see Sideways James live happily ever after with Sideways Juliet. How dare the show hook him up with anyone else! To our eyes, it was like watching Sawyer having a fling with… another woman. The irony: “The Other Woman” was the episode in which Lost tried to forge a romance between Jack and Juliet, giving them The Smooch That Didn’t Work. In the eyes of all who saw Kate as Jack’s true love, Juliet was “the other woman.” Indeed, a few episodes later, in “Something Nice Back Home,” Juliet herself came to that conclusion as she operated on Jack’s appendix: she correctly diagnosed Jack’s kiss as an attempt to see if he could feel for anyone else but Kate — a romantic recon mission, if you will. The answer: No. (Ironically, in retrospect, “The Other Woman” now makes Jack look like “the other man,” given how so many people feel Juliet and Sawyer belong together. Ditto Daniel Faraday: I felt he got cuckolded by Sideways Charlotte in “Recon,” poor dead twitchy egghead!)

But there are other parallels between “Recon” and “The Other Woman” that have nothing to do with romance. Consider:

The “Recon” Con

“The Other Woman”

In Juliet’s flashback story, Ben sent Juliet’s beau Goodwin to spy on The Tailies. His ulterior motive: to get Goodwin out of the way so he could make the moves on Juliet. We were even led to believe that Ben had set up Goodwin to be killed by L.A. cop Ana Lucia.

“Recon”

On The Island, Fake Locke sent Sawyer to spy on the Ajira castaways. His ulterior motive, if not primary motivation: To get Sawyer out of the way so he could bond with Kate. I speculated in my recap that Fake Locke was trying to give Kate reason to murder Claire by enticing her to think that Aaron might be damaged if reunited with his crazy mom. Why would Fake Locke want Kate to do that? Because he needs all the castaways dead and he’s not permitted to do the deed himself per “the rules.” Similarly, I now wonder if that’s why FLocke sent Sawyer to Hydra Island. He wanted him Goodwinned; he was setting him up to be murdered by Charles Widmore. Also: L.A. cop questing for vengeance = L.A. cop questing for vengeance Ana Lucia. “Recon” was basically Sawyer’s version of Ghosts of Girlfriends Past.

The Ex-Files

“The Other Woman”

Jack and Juliet discussed the files that The Others had on all the castaways. Jack wanted to know more about Juliet. Juliet said, “Trust me, Jack. You don’t want to know what’s in my file.” Separately, this was the episode where Ben talked Locke into releasing him from his cell by showing him the dossier he had assembled on his nemesis, Charles Widmore. He also told Locke that he had a spy on Widmore’s freighter: ex-castaway/Island escapee Michael.

“Recon”

James Ford had been keeping a dossier on his nemesis, “Sawyer,” a.k.a. Anthony Cooper. And we also saw a locked room on Widmore’s boat, and many are speculating that someone we know could be inside. Like, say, ex-castaway/Island escapee Desmond Hume? I think “Recon” could have been making another implied “file” reference and another reference to locked-up castaways… but more on that in a minute.

Locke Doesn’t Like Being Questioned

“The Other Woman”

Claire questioned Locke’s judgment about not pressing Miles harder about the intentions of the freighter folk. He got frustrated. Later, Ben teased Locke about the difficulty of being a leader, and how frustrating it can be when people second-guess your decisions.

“Recon”

While marching to the beach, Sawyer publicly questioned Fake Locke about when and how he plans to get them off The Island. Frustrated, FLocke took Sawyer aside and expressed disappointment that Sawyer challenged his authority in front of the group. Curious: last year in “LaFleur,” Sawyer was en route to the beach with his band of time flashers and had a conversation with a certain ex-girlfriend about the propriety of publicly questioning his leadership. Hmmm…

What Chef Locke Cooks For Dinner

“The Other Woman”

At “New Otherton,” Locke BBQ’d rabbit for dinner.

“Recon”

When Sawyer returned from Hydra Island, Kate said they had eaten rabbit for dinner.

Now, why did “Recon” “re-connect” so ironically with “The Other Woman”? There could be many reasons. One of those reasons could have been to teach us the lesson I learned this week: You won’t find the answers in a book. You’ll find the answers inside the show itself. “The Other Woman” hammers this lesson home with a most ironic visual aid: a literary reference! In that episode, we saw Ben reading Philip K. ****’s sci-fi novel VALIS. Forget about the plot of book. (For now.) Here’s what was so significant about the reference: It was the pay-off to a set-up; the punchline to a joke. A few episodes earlier, Locke had brought prisoner Ben some eggs and the book. Ben said he had already read it. Locke replied he should read it again because “you might catch something you missed the first time around.” “The Other Woman” completed the circuit by showing Ben reading ****’s curious opus. Mental note No. 1: Read VALIS, and possibly its sequels, too: The Divine Invasion and The Transmigration of Timothy Archer. (Transmigration, by the way, is a fancy word for reincarnation.) Mental note No. 2: Brush up on my Lost before I read any book. As Locke said: You might catch something you missed the first time around.

Not that I don’t have a crazy theory inspired by the Vast Active Living Intelligence System that is Lost. Of course I do! Beginning with that last sentence: Yep, that’s the acronym for VALIS. More simply, Lost is literally a body of knowledge, a living, breathing, self-aware mass of facts, figures, and reference points. Now, I’m hoping you read that last sentence and thought: “Hey! That kinda sounds like Smokey! He used to roam around The Island, psychically probing people’s minds and collecting information from their brains! He may have collected other kinds of information, too, like, say, the souls of people who’ve lived on The Island! And now, that cloud of info has become a living, breathing, self-aware mass: John Locke! So waitasec! Doc Jensen, are you saying what I think you’re saying?”

Yes: I am saying that Lost itself is a metaphor for Smokey. In some ways, you could say that Lost IS Smokey.

Think about this. Or rather, watch John Locke/Smokey think about this. Have you been noticing that? Have you been noticing that every time Fake Locke shares information with people, tried to bend them to his will, he stops and thinks? His eyes shift in the sockets, like he’s trying to trying to remember something — like he’s flipping through his mental files of memory. (Or maybe just the files that The Others had on the castaways, committed to memory by… Oh but I’m getting ahead of myself.) Or put another way: he’s clocking through past episodes of Lost, trying to find the scene/flashback story that can be of help to him in the moment…

Now, here’s something I didn’t tell you about “The Other Woman.” The episode had an interesting narrative structure. It was all about couplings. Juliet and Goodwin. Juliet and Ben. Juliet and Jack. But it was also about… Charlotte and Daniel Faraday. In their story, everyone thought they were heading to The Tempest — the Dharma power station, which also produced poison gas — to blow it up and gas The Island. But they weren’t trying to kill people — they were trying to disable the station and save people from it. Sidenote: In the episode, Juliet’s ex-lover, Goodwin, got a chemical burn while working in The Tempest. In “Recon,” Juliet’s ex-lover Sawyer burned himself on a steaming teapot. Tempest. Teapot. Tempest in a Teapot. A Jughead/hydrogen bomb reference, for sure… but also a Smokey reference, too. He’s a storm of consciousness inside a vessel.

So: Fake Locke is a vast active living intelligence system. He may contain the minds of every single person that has ever died on The Island. But every community needs a leader, so my guess is that one or possibly two human intelligences in particular are driving the FLocke car. I say human because I do think there’s a third party involved here — a supernatural entity that has long lived on and served The Island, an entity that can collect human souls/minds that come to The Island. Today, let’s not speculate about this entity, whom The Dharma Initiative called Cerberus — a three-headed dog. Instead, let’s focus on the two human drivers. A couple days ago, I suggested that the Smoke Monster was Daniel Faraday, the “Other Man” in the illicit Sawyer/Charlotte hook-up. His partner? It’s “The Other Woman,” of course: Juliet.

Faraday and Juliet are leading Fake Locke — two souls among a legion of dead Island souls that reside within Fake Locke. Maybe that’s why Locke always looks so shifty right before he tells someone something about himself — it’s like he’s trying to figure out which brain to use, or which set of memory files he possesses to draw from in order to say exactly the right thing to push people down the path he wants them to take. And what path is that? Why, death, of course! FLocke wants all the castaways to die or kill each other because then he can absorb their souls into him. And when he leaves The Island, something magical will happen: all those souls will be released and they’ll flow into their Sideways bodies, where they can all live happily ever after in Weird World Los Angeles, where they all know each other and they can all be one big happy family. (Except for Sayid. Poor Sayid: I’m thinking that when he stabbed FLocke in the heart, the magic that occurred there was that Sayid got his soul BACK. And he’s feeling the pain of reunion — and perhaps eternal guilt.)

Think of Smokey as Noah’s Ark. Think of Smokey as… Being John Malkovich. Remember when Sawyer told Kate they were going to get off The Island on the sub? He was right! They are going to take “the sub” — as in Substitute John Locke!

But does that make Smokey the good guy? I think it really depends. If Lost is a story about regeneration, both physically and spiritually, and if we agree that death is a necessary part of that process, then it all depends on if Smokey is a metaphor for embracing the natural “circle of life,” or trying to escape it and subvert it. Interesting: in “Recon,” there was some banter between FLocke and Sawyer that played with the words “do no harm.” “Do No Harm” was the Season 1 episode where Boone died — and Aaron was born…

Something to think about over the weekend, I hope. I’ll be back on Tuesday with some more thoughts in advance of the episode. And reset your calendars: the new weekly Doc Jensen columns will now post every Friday. Consider this the official launch!

Namaste!

PS: If Smokey is a collection of dead Island souls, then who is Jacob? Simple! He, too, is the embodiment of dead souls. But whereas Smokey gets the adults, Jacob gets the children. And within his person, Jacob is also guided by two intelligences — two souls that never really got a chance to live, because they were still inside the womb when their mothers died on The Island. Those souls? They are bad fraternal twins, whose mothers died the same day Jughead was detonated:

Daniel Faraday, embryonic son of Eloise Hawking (so yes: TWO Faraday souls, or perhaps one split in half and shared between Smokey and his nemesis)…

And a boy named Jacob, who was the embryonic son of…

Juliet and Sawyer.

Or Jack and Kate.

I don’t know. The VALIS of my mind is still deciding.

Doc Jensen

@ewdocjensen

docjensenew@gmail.com

 

[sho nuff]

And I don't think it really HAD to be Locke, but rather Locke was the most logical choice, as the flight needed to be as close to the same as it was when the first crashed, and he just so happened to be a vessel MIB could use.Or, maybe Farraday's mother knew all along that MIB could take over Lockes body, and that was the sole reason for her insistance they all go, they all didn't really need to go, but if she said they did, it explained away why they had to bring a dead body.

Which lends itself to the theory that Widmore and MIB are working together possibly if he was working with Eloise still?

 

[rick6668]

And I don't think it really HAD to be Locke, but rather Locke was the most logical choice, as the flight needed to be as close to the same as it was when the first crashed, and he just so happened to be a vessel MIB could use.

Or, maybe Farraday's mother knew all along that MIB could take over Lockes body, and that was the sole reason for her insistance they all go, they all didn't really need to go, but if she said they did, it explained away why they had to bring a dead body.

I don't have a problem with MiB morphing into Locke - it's weird, but that's fine.

I just want to know how Ben's group and the Others are associated with MiB.

Did no one including Eloise have any idea this was going to happen if they did this?

I don't see how Ben isn't associated with MiB somehow... i mean, in that one episode when Keamy's group was on the island, he went in and unleashed a switch that let the smoke monster out to wipe those dudes out.

So they're like friends and stuff, right?

My head hurts. I'm still not sure if this is completely dumb or potentially interesting.

I tend to agree with Harry Manback and The Dude in that it didn't HAVE to be Locke, but he was convenient and MiB already planted the seed in him that he would have to die to make things right. Not right by John Locke, but right by MiB.When Ilana, etc. brought Locke back, I don't think they knew they were reincarnating Locke into UnLocke. I think Jacob somehow knew that MiB would manifest himself as Locke and thus he instructed Ilana to bring Locke's corpse back so they could have proof that MiB had manifested himself with a different look.

Ben's and his former followers were associated with MiB because he's apparently been guiding Ben all along, when they were under the assumption it was Jacob.

I wouldn't say they're "friends" but MiB seemingly has a history of keeping people he needs to do his dirty work around.

Locke's not the key here; Ben is.MIB was really looking to manipulate Ben into killing Jacob. Between the manifestation in the temple (appearing as Alex) and Ben's having killed Locke (although how MIB knew - could he have manipulated Ben into killing Locke off-island???) put MIB in a position (as Locke) to push Ben into knifing Jacob.

So I'm not so sure who else it could have been if not Locke. Who else would have worked to get Ben to do the dirty work?

I think that we are missing a few of the most important questions:1. Where is Christian's body? (in BOTH worlds... the body was NOT in the casket on the island, Jack confirmed that to Hurley a couple episodes... in the sideways world, the body wasn't in the casket upon landing in LA)

2. Who was Christian? Was Christian smokey? Was Christian Jacob? Was Christian someone else entirely?

Jack tells Locke Oceanic lost his father because they can't locate his coffin.

 

[sho nuff]

Also a possible Widmore/MIB connection...the stuff quoted in this post...

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...&p=11650080

People wondered why MIB did not really kill the mercenaries (Widmore's people). Just kind of beat them up and dragged them off. But they were not killed.

Was it because he was really pulling them back to the jungle and telling them to pull back?

 

[larry_boy_44]

I don't have a problem with MiB morphing into Locke - it's weird, but that's fine.

I just want to know how Ben's group and the Others are associated with MiB.

Did no one including Eloise have any idea this was going to happen if they did this?

I don't see how Ben isn't associated with MiB somehow... i mean, in that one episode when Keamy's group was on the island, he went in and unleashed a switch that let the smoke monster out to wipe those dudes out.

So they're like friends and stuff, right?

My head hurts. I'm still not sure if this is completely dumb or potentially interesting.

I tend to agree with Harry Manback and The Dude in that it didn't HAVE to be Locke, but he was convenient and MiB already planted the seed in him that he would have to die to make things right. Not right by John Locke, but right by MiB.When Ilana, etc. brought Locke back, I don't think they knew they were reincarnating Locke into UnLocke. I think Jacob somehow knew that MiB would manifest himself as Locke and thus he instructed Ilana to bring Locke's corpse back so they could have proof that MiB had manifested himself with a different look.

Ben's and his former followers were associated with MiB because he's apparently been guiding Ben all along, when they were under the assumption it was Jacob.

I wouldn't say they're "friends" but MiB seemingly has a history of keeping people he needs to do his dirty work around.

Locke's not the key here; Ben is.MIB was really looking to manipulate Ben into killing Jacob. Between the manifestation in the temple (appearing as Alex) and Ben's having killed Locke (although how MIB knew - could he have manipulated Ben into killing Locke off-island???) put MIB in a position (as Locke) to push Ben into knifing Jacob.

So I'm not so sure who else it could have been if not Locke. Who else would have worked to get Ben to do the dirty work?

I think that we are missing a few of the most important questions:1. Where is Christian's body? (in BOTH worlds... the body was NOT in the casket on the island, Jack confirmed that to Hurley a couple episodes... in the sideways world, the body wasn't in the casket upon landing in LA)

2. Who was Christian? Was Christian smokey? Was Christian Jacob? Was Christian someone else entirely?

Jack tells Locke Oceanic lost his father because they can't locate his coffin.

I thought I heard somewhere that it was empty...either way, the first part of my question still stands, where exactly is his body?

 

[Buckna]

Ethan was also born on the island.

According to last season it appears that Miles was as well.

 

[skillz]

And I don't think it really HAD to be Locke, but rather Locke was the most logical choice, as the flight needed to be as close to the same as it was when the first crashed, and he just so happened to be a vessel MIB could use.Or, maybe Farraday's mother knew all along that MIB could take over Lockes body, and that was the sole reason for her insistance they all go, they all didn't really need to go, but if she said they did, it explained away why they had to bring a dead body.

Which lends itself to the theory that Widmore and MIB are working together possibly if he was working with Eloise still?

Maybe, I always thought it was strange that Eloise told the Oceanic 6 had to go on a specific flight at a specific time to get back to the island while Widmore just rolls up in a sub and finds the place. Why was he able to find it with the sub? Maybe she shared the location with him.

 

[skillz]

Also a possible Widmore/MIB connection...the stuff quoted in this post...

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...&p=11650080

People wondered why MIB did not really kill the mercenaries (Widmore's people). Just kind of beat them up and dragged them off. But they were not killed.

Was it because he was really pulling them back to the jungle and telling them to pull back?

Only thing about this is it appeared Widmore's group was installing the pylons on the Hydra island so they could keep the smoke monster out. If the MIB and Widmore were working together I don't know why Widmore would have to put the pylons up for protection.

 

[sho nuff]

Also a possible Widmore/MIB connection...the stuff quoted in this post...

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...&p=11650080

People wondered why MIB did not really kill the mercenaries (Widmore's people). Just kind of beat them up and dragged them off. But they were not killed.

Was it because he was really pulling them back to the jungle and telling them to pull back?

Only thing about this is it appeared Widmore's group was installing the pylons on the Hydra island so they could keep the smoke monster out. If the MIB and Widmore were working together I don't know why Widmore would have to put the pylons up for protection.

Yeah...someone reminded me about that right after I posted.Oh well.

This is why I quit reading into theories and have just been enjoying watching.

Was just too into the last episode could not help reading up and thinking and checking into things.

 

[Sabertooth]

question...since when were there slave ships bound for the new world in 1867???

1867

 

[kaa]

And I don't think it really HAD to be Locke, but rather Locke was the most logical choice, as the flight needed to be as close to the same as it was when the first crashed, and he just so happened to be a vessel MIB could use.Or, maybe Farraday's mother knew all along that MIB could take over Lockes body, and that was the sole reason for her insistance they all go, they all didn't really need to go, but if she said they did, it explained away why they had to bring a dead body.

Which lends itself to the theory that Widmore and MIB are working together possibly if he was working with Eloise still?

Maybe, I always thought it was strange that Eloise told the Oceanic 6 had to go on a specific flight at a specific time to get back to the island while Widmore just rolls up in a sub and finds the place. Why was he able to find it with the sub? Maybe she shared the location with him.

Widmore's group found the island when the Swan hatch exploded.Widmore's group likely was not in touch with the Lamppost station though. I'd say they are competing factions. Charles Widmore and Eloise Hawking were ex-lovers, actually, and openly hostile to each other in old age.

 

[Trey]

Has anyone here ever dabbled in Emmanuel Levinas (the Jewish philosopher)?

Currently reading his Time & the Other and I believe that the writers are borrowing heavily from some of his concepts (most notably his Jacob-Esau mentality distinction).

 

[ScottNorwood]

Has anyone here ever dabbled in Emmanuel Levinas (the Jewish philosopher)?

The kid from Webster? I had no idea he was Jewish.

 

[The Man With No Name]

I have missed the entire season and want to watch them online, but can't find them all including the opening episode "LAX". Anyone know where I can find it and all of them. Couldn't find them all on abc.com or hulu. Thanks. (was in hospital a long time after a bad car accident).

 

[firstseason1988]

I just kinda skimmed the last couple of pages of this thread, u fools here at ffa sure are slow on the uptake. You guys need to think a little bit more. You guys got any openings in your fantasy leagues?

 

[IDrinkyourMilkshake]

I just kinda skimmed the last couple of pages of this thread, u fools here at ffa sure are slow on the uptake. You guys need to think a little bit more. You guys got any openings in your fantasy leagues?

I actually do. PM me your email address.

 

[kupcho1]

I have missed the entire season and want to watch them online, but can't find them all including the opening episode "LAX". Anyone know where I can find it and all of them. Couldn't find them all on abc.com or hulu. Thanks. (was in hospital a long time after a bad car accident).

Sorry to hear that. I don't understand why abc wouldn't have the entire season online. I'd try torrents if I were you.

 

[kaa]

The next episode is entitled "the Package" and apparently focuses on Sun and Jin. It will answer all your questions about whether or not Jin's "package" really works.

 

[IDrinkyourMilkshake]

The next episode is entitled "the Package" and apparently focuses on Sun and Jin. It will answer all your questions about whether or not Jin's "package" really works.

Don't quit your day job, comedy guy.

 

[dickey moe]

Not one mention of Jacob beating Ricardo like a rented mule?He beat the hell out of him there for a minute.

Someone had to knock some sense through his thick skull.

 

[kaa]

I didn't pick up on this before, but when Locke gets fired, and his supervisor walks away. Locke is typing on his adding machine, and if you listen carefully, it starts making those clicking sounds that smokey makes. And while it does that, they zoom in on Locke's face and he looks very cross.

I'd file that along with how Jack looked puzzled at his bruises and cuts on flight 815 that didn't crash.

 

[Smeagol]

Can't wait to be disappointed tonight

 

[SmoovySmoov]

Can't wait to be disappointed tonight :(

Can't wait to read about your disappointment tomorrow.

 

[Kiddnets]

that V countdown is uber annoying!

 

[Bodeine]

I think we all knew that the Island was not done w/Desmond!

Interesting twist on the Sun/Jin side-story. But, WTF is Patchy doing in it? Do these side-stories have any impact or correlation to the main storyline? Why are all of the pasts different?

Has it been explained, if Jack & co. blew up the hydrogen bomb on the island in 1977 so the "incident" doesn't occur in the future (2004).. how does that change everyone's history pre-Oceanic 815 flight?

 

[Kiddnets]

Little bit of a letdown for me after last weeks awesome ep - highlight was the Widmore/Locke confrontation - hard to see Widmore as a "good guy".....

 

[saintsdave75]

Also a possible Widmore/MIB connection...the stuff quoted in this post...

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...&p=11650080

People wondered why MIB did not really kill the mercenaries (Widmore's people). Just kind of beat them up and dragged them off. But they were not killed.

Was it because he was really pulling them back to the jungle and telling them to pull back?

I'd say they are definitely not working together after tonight's episode

 

[saintsdave75]

Do these side-stories have any impact or correlation to the main storyline?

I got to wondering about this tonight; especially after the part at the hotel front desk where Jin said he didn't have a wedding ring, just like currently in the real world on the island, he doesn't currently have his wedding ring, Sun has it.

 

[shadyridr]

Good episode but I said to my wife after Sun was shot "Are we supposed to care about them off the island?"

 

[shadyridr]

Im assuming Desmond is in the sub

With Widmore? Who hates him??? Unlikely.

I got one right

 

[prosopis]

Good episode and Sun is hot.

 

[kaa]

Good episode and Sun is hot.

She has nice tomatoes.

 

[Bodeine]

Good episode but I said to my wife after Sun was shot "Are we supposed to care about them off the island?"

This is my whole point. If this "alternate" reality storyline has no connection to the past stories we were previously given, somehow mutated through the island's involvement in 1977/2004, then what is the whole point?I will say it's interesting to see how all of the players' lives still intersect in the alternate reality, Sayid/Keemy/Jin/Patchy, Sawyer/Miles/Kate/Charlotte, Ben/Locke/Arzt/Alex, etc. But, in the end, it all seems like a gimmick. To the point of wondering why I should be watching these segments.I can't just decipher how these chain of events were so altered. I mean: Given that Juliet detonated the bomb in 1977 -- how does that erase all of Ben Linus' history? Was his dad still not a jerk? We know he was shot by Sayid in 1977 (prior to the bomb) and was delivered to the Others. How does he end up a rather subdued history teacher in a public high school nearly thirty years later? How is it that Jack has a 12 year old son in 2004?

 

[Sack-Religious]

Good episode but I said to my wife after Sun was shot "Are we supposed to care about them off the island?"

This is my whole point. If this "alternate" reality storyline has no connection to the past stories we were previously given, somehow mutated through the island's involvement in 1977/2004, then what is the whole point?I will say it's interesting to see how all of the players' lives still intersect in the alternate reality, Sayid/Keemy/Jin/Patchy, Sawyer/Miles/Kate/Charlotte, Ben/Locke/Arzt/Alex, etc. But, in the end, it all seems like a gimmick. To the point of wondering why I should be watching these segments.I can't just decipher how these chain of events were so altered. I mean: Given that Juliet detonated the bomb in 1977 -- how does that erase all of Ben Linus' history? Was his dad still not a jerk? We know he was shot by Sayid in 1977 (prior to the bomb) and was delivered to the Others. How does he end up a rather subdued history teacher in a public high school nearly thirty years later? How is it that Jack has a 12 year old son in 2004?

That's the thing. They are the "what could have been" stories. And from what the producers say, how, or if, they reconcile is a major part of this season. Guess we're gonna have to ride it out.My thoughts are that the "reset" that detonating Jughead provided, did more than just make them not crash on the island. As we've seen Jacob touching or visiting people puts them on a path that results in them getting to the island. With the mirror in the lighthouse, Jack saw his childhood home, and that got me to thinking. What if the bomb blowing up brought things back to before Jacob first identified (not necessarily visited as he may have ID'd them long before the visit) these people as possible candidates? The life choices they make will not be nudged along by Jacob, and thus they would still be fundamentally the same person, but be in vastly different circumstances. There are probably a million holes in this theory, but it helps bring things together a little better for me, anyway.

 

[Sack-Religious]

Some of the dialogue about the candidates in this episode and in previous ones got me to thinking.

The finality that Jacob and notLocke have been using when describing the candidates gives me the impression that this group is the absolute last chance for Jacob to prove MiB wrong. Does anyone else get that feeling?

 

[Sabertooth]

Good episode and Sun is hot.

She has nice tomatoes.

Too bad the ones they show close up were not her's.

 

[Bodeine]

Good episode and Sun is hot.

She has nice tomatoes.

Too bad the ones they show close up were not her's.

Boy, they really made a point to focus on 'em, though, didn't they? The forced close-ups makes me believe you are correct Sabertooth.

 

[The Dude]

Good episode but I said to my wife after Sun was shot "Are we supposed to care about them off the island?"

This is my whole point. If this "alternate" reality storyline has no connection to the past stories we were previously given, somehow mutated through the island's involvement in 1977/2004, then what is the whole point?I will say it's interesting to see how all of the players' lives still intersect in the alternate reality, Sayid/Keemy/Jin/Patchy, Sawyer/Miles/Kate/Charlotte, Ben/Locke/Arzt/Alex, etc. But, in the end, it all seems like a gimmick. To the point of wondering why I should be watching these segments.I can't just decipher how these chain of events were so altered. I mean: Given that Juliet detonated the bomb in 1977 -- how does that erase all of Ben Linus' history? Was his dad still not a jerk? We know he was shot by Sayid in 1977 (prior to the bomb) and was delivered to the Others. How does he end up a rather subdued history teacher in a public high school nearly thirty years later? How is it that Jack has a 12 year old son in 2004?

That's the thing. They are the "what could have been" stories. And from what the producers say, how, or if, they reconcile is a major part of this season. Guess we're gonna have to ride it out.My thoughts are that the "reset" that detonating Jughead provided, did more than just make them not crash on the island. As we've seen Jacob touching or visiting people puts them on a path that results in them getting to the island. With the mirror in the lighthouse, Jack saw his childhood home, and that got me to thinking. What if the bomb blowing up brought things back to before Jacob first identified (not necessarily visited as he may have ID'd them long before the visit) these people as possible candidates? The life choices they make will not be nudged along by Jacob, and thus they would still be fundamentally the same person, but be in vastly different circumstances. There are probably a million holes in this theory, but it helps bring things together a little better for me, anyway.

All good points and can be summed up in that the sideways are a waste of time. Building on Sack's point (although he prefacs it with uncertainty on the relevance of the post LAX significance), he highlights the problem. If the past and current has changed, why are they still on the island? It's not logicial (oh right, it's pseudo-science). More island time was a good thing last night. I thought Sun losing the ability to speak english was stupid - they apper to be reversing roles for her and Jin who is now fluent in english.

 

[Jayrok]

When are they going to do the flash back-story on Jacob and MiB? And how they came to be on the island?