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*** Official Marvels Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D (1 Viewer)

I love Mac, but that kind of irritated me.  I mean, I get it, your daughter dying has to be awful beyond words, but if you know she is dead, can you really continue to pretend she's alive?  I was hoping they'd find a way to bring Trip back, but it's best that they don't.  

Coulson and May need to just get their #### in gear with each other. 
Mac's not dead yet. They still have an episode or two to figure out how to get him out of the framework.

That said, they managed to force Fitz through - why not just knock out Mac and then toss him through? You know that he isn't in his right mind and therefore can't be expected to make the best decision for himself. Why give him the option to stay behind?

 
Mac's not dead yet. They still have an episode or two to figure out how to get him out of the framework.

That said, they managed to force Fitz through - why not just knock out Mac and then toss him through? You know that he isn't in his right mind and therefore can't be expected to make the best decision for himself. Why give him the option to stay behind?
The difference between Leo and Mac is simply a matter of respect.  The agents respect mac's decision. 

Thinking about it for a minute, maybe Ophelia's power is to transport to the framework? 

 
Because it made him feel whole and in this world she's still alive. Even if he knows the world is fake just having her there and needing him and him being able to be with her was enough to get past the lie of it all. I've been a fan of Henry Simmons since his NYPD Blue days so I'd really hate to see him go. But I thought his decision was so poignant it'll cheapen things if they reverse it. 
Reminiscent of the matrix. Once you know you're living a lie I just don't see how you can continue to do so. Especially when you can't take care of your actual body. 

 
The difference between Leo and Mac is simply a matter of respect.  The agents respect mac's decision. 

Thinking about it for a minute, maybe Ophelia's power is to transport to the framework? 
1. Only one agent was present when he refused to go back, so only one could respect it, if that's what she did. Could be she just figured she couldn't force him by herself and keep the portal open. They did show his body still hooked up to the machine in the preview for next week's episode, so I don't think it's over with him. Besides, it looks bad that they keep only killing off the black guys on the team.

2. How can you respect someone's decision when you know they aren't making an informed decision? Mac's as screwed up in the head as Fitz was, just not in the same way. Neither was aware of what their life was in the real world and believe the framework is reality. Mac may have seen that it's just a computer simulation, but part of him is not accepting that Hope is also a simulation, one meant to control him and keep him in the framework. He was giving up because that's what Aida programmed him to do. How can you respect that?

 
I liked the human side of Mac deciding to stay behind. I have kids, can't imagine the hell of losing one. I might make the same choice. I really like his character, but with that said, the only way that I want him back is if his daughter gets killed in the framework, and he chooses to return. Maybe Aida kills her as punishment, and he realizes he can't be with his daughter in either world.

also- I know I can't be alone in thinking "If you could hit print again, I'd like my own copy of Aida"  :excited:

 
I liked the human side of Mac deciding to stay behind. I have kids, can't imagine the hell of losing one. I might make the same choice. I really like his character, but with that said, the only way that I want him back is if his daughter gets killed in the framework, and he chooses to return. Maybe Aida kills her as punishment, and he realizes he can't be with his daughter in either world.

also- I know I can't be alone in thinking "If you could hit print again, I'd like my own copy of Aida"  :excited:
I think it's probably more likely that they'll have Hope convince Mac to go back because she's the one who pushes him toward being heroic in that world as it is.

Why would you want a copy of Aida? She's amoral, prejudiced against humanity, domineering, and homocidal. Even if you were able to get her into bed, it would be just a matter of time before she killed you.

 
I think it's probably more likely that they'll have Hope convince Mac to go back because she's the one who pushes him toward being heroic in that world as it is.
Great point. It's probably the thought of her that pushes him to heroism irl as well.

 
It was pretty easy to see Mac wanting to stay behind coming for the past few episodes. And I get why Sky let him. But is the framework still going to be up and running once the team presumably kill Aida and end this whole story arc?

Just have a hard time imagining them just saying "ok, he's where he wants to be" and leaving him plugged into a computer. I'm also betting that the underwater base where his body is (along with May and Colson) will be under attack at some point.

 
It was pretty easy to see Mac wanting to stay behind coming for the past few episodes. And I get why Sky let him. But is the framework still going to be up and running once the team presumably kill Aida and end this whole story arc?

Just have a hard time imagining them just saying "ok, he's where he wants to be" and leaving him plugged into a computer. I'm also betting that the underwater base where his body is (along with May and Colson) will be under attack at some point.
Well, they said earlier in the season that a person's physical body would die after a certain amount of time in the framework, so I don't think they'll leave him in there forever anyway.

 
2. How can you respect someone's decision when you know they aren't making an informed decision? Mac's as screwed up in the head as Fitz was, just not in the same way. Neither was aware of what their life was in the real world and believe the framework is reality. Mac may have seen that it's just a computer simulation, but part of him is not accepting that Hope is also a simulation, one meant to control him and keep him in the framework. He was giving up because that's what Aida programmed him to do. How can you respect that?
I imagine most would think that if Fitz came back to our world and got his memories back, he would never, ever regret leaving the Framework.

It is debatable if the same would be true for Mack. Let's say he had the option to get his memories back and THEN decide to stay or not. Is it hard to imagine he might still decide to stay with the fake Hope?  Framework Mack can grasp enough of what life would be like without Hope his choice is at least somewhat informed. At least at a level that Fitz's decision never approached.

 
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Why would you want a copy of Aida? She's amoral, prejudiced against humanity, domineering, and homocidal. Even if you were able to get her into bed, it would be just a matter of time before she killed you.
Lighten up Francis, a hot broad clone could be fun regardless of her world domination aspirations. Plus you could reprogram her for butt stuff if you wanted

 
I love Mac, but that kind of irritated me.  I mean, I get it, your daughter dying has to be awful beyond words, but if you know she is dead, can you really continue to pretend she's alive?  I was hoping they'd find a way to bring Trip back, but it's best that they don't.   
Do you have a child?  Imagine someone telling you that the life you are currently living isn't real, and that your child is actually dead. And imagine you see something that convinces you that they are right. Would it be that easy for you right now to walk away from your current life and never see your child again?  I think that would be a very difficult decision and I can totally see Mac making that choice. 

But based on the previews, I have no doubt that they'll get Mac out of the framework. 

 
Do you have a child?  Imagine someone telling you that the life you are currently living isn't real, and that your child is actually dead. And imagine you see something that convinces you that they are right. Would it be that easy for you right now to walk away from your current life and never see your child again?  I think that would be a very difficult decision and I can totally see Mac making that choice. 

But based on the previews, I have no doubt that they'll get Mac out of the framework. 
We have 4 children and of course it would be difficult.  I'd probably stay if I thought we were just living in an alternate timeline, but mac seemed to know it was a lie and said so.  With that, I'd leave even though it would be tough.

 
I imagine I most would think that if Fitz came back to our world and got his memories back, he would never, ever regret leaving the Framework.

It is debatable if the same would be true for Mack. Let's say he had the option to get his memories back and THEN decide to stay or not. Is it hard to imagine he might still decide to stay with the fake Hope?  Framework Mack can grasp enough of what life would be like without Hope his choice is at least somewhat informed. At least at a level that Fitz's decision never approached.
The only thing Mac knows about his life outside the framework is that Hope is not alive.  He's never even asked if he's got other kids or a wife or anyone else who loves him who would be devastated by his choice to stay in the framework to live with a facsimile of a dead little girl rather than to come back to them as a real live person.  If he had all that knowledge and then decided to stay then, sure, his choice could be respected.  But he doesn't, so it can't be.

 
The only thing Mac knows about his life outside the framework is that Hope is not alive.  He's never even asked if he's got other kids or a wife or anyone else who loves him who would be devastated by his choice to stay in the framework to live with a facsimile of a dead little girl rather than to come back to them as a real live person.  If he had all that knowledge and then decided to stay then, sure, his choice could be respected.  But he doesn't, so it can't be.
Given that we the viewer already know that to be true (no kids or wife in the real world), I think this was just a case of sparing us some wasted viewing time spelling out to him the details of what we already know.

 
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Didn't quite get the logistics of that one myself or she made herself and Fitz disappear.

But otherwise, this was an outstanding episode. I like how damaged Fitz may be based on what he did within the Framework and as much as I like Henry Simmons I hope they won't cheapen what Mac did by somehow bringing him back in one of the final two episodes. He made a choice to live a lie because the lie comforted him. I thought that was really well done and I hope that's how his character's storyline now ends on the show.

Sure hope this show gets another season. This pod has been by far the best work the showrunners have done. 
Agree 100%.  Firstly that damaged Fitz is the best Fitz for the show.  Similar to season 2 after the Ward betrayal left him brain damaged (which I guess magically healed?).

Also totally agree on the Mac part of things.  As a father of two young kids that part really had an affect on me.  I can totally understand him doing what he's doing and I agree with you, I hope that's the end of his story because that's the perfect "death" scene for a character.

 
FreeBaGeL said:
Given that we the viewer already know that to be true (no kids or wife in the real world), I think this was just a case of sparing us some wasted viewing time spelling out to him the details of what we already know.
He has Yo-yo

 
The only thing Mac knows about his life outside the framework is that Hope is not alive.  He's never even asked if he's got other kids or a wife or anyone else who loves him who would be devastated by his choice to stay in the framework to live with a facsimile of a dead little girl rather than to come back to them as a real live person.  If he had all that knowledge and then decided to stay then, sure, his choice could be respected.  But he doesn't, so it can't be.


FreeBaGeL said:
Given that we the viewer already know that to be true (no kids or wife in the real world), I think this was just a case of sparing us some wasted viewing time spelling out to him the details of what we already know.


He has Yo-yo
this. Wind her up tight.

 
Agree 100%.  Firstly that damaged Fitz is the best Fitz for the show.  Similar to season 2 after the Ward betrayal left him brain damaged (which I guess magically healed?).

Also totally agree on the Mac part of things.  As a father of two young kids that part really had an affect on me.  I can totally understand him doing what he's doing and I agree with you, I hope that's the end of his story because that's the perfect "death" scene for a character.
When the show began I never would've guessed Iain De Caestecker would emerge as such a strong actor. But he's done great work on this show and I agree, damaged Fitz could be real interesting. 

 
What is the reason Ghostrider allowed Phil's plan?
It's because of whatever it is that Ghost Rider knows that Coulson isn't telling the rest of the team about. It probably has to do with where Coulson woke up at the end of the episode. I would guess it's some version of Attilan in the Blue Area of the Moon, where the Inhuman royal family lives. Perhaps the team is in something like the framework there, and Coulson is the only one who can move between the real world and where they are.

 
packersfan said:
Great news.

Only half a season, though.  :(
Full 22 episodes according to this:

Agents of Shield renewed

"ABC Entertainment president Channing Dungey opened up about plans for midseason. Agents of SHIELD will take over the Fridays at 8 p.m. slot after fellow Marvel drama Inhumans wraps its eight-episode run. (SHIELD also will return with a full 22-episode season.)"
 
By letting the Ghost Rider in, did Coulsen give up his soul like Robbie did? Is that what they were talking about that they were keeping from the team for now?

 
By letting the Ghost Rider in, did Coulsen give up his soul like Robbie did? Is that what they were talking about that they were keeping from the team for now?
I got the feeling there was something Coulsen was hiding that allowed the Ghost Rider in. Something dark in his character he doesn't want the team to know about. Safe to say we'll find out about that next season. 

 
By letting the Ghost Rider in, did Coulsen give up his soul like Robbie did? Is that what they were talking about that they were keeping from the team for now?
That was my impression.... There was something to pay in order for Ghost Rider to make the jump. What else could it be than his soul?

 
I don't about the giving up the soul thing. If you remember, he was in Mack's body for a small time there without taking his soul. At least they didn't indicate anything of the sort.

 
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I don't about the giving up the soul thing. If you remember, he was in Mack's body for a small time there without taking his soul. At least they didn't indicate anything of the sort.


From: http://www.cbr.com/agents-of-shield-spoiler-becomes-new-ghost-rider/

What’s more, the transfer of the Ghost Rider from Robbie to Mack and back again revealed a few interesting new clues about the supernatural entity. For one, Ghost Rider used Mack as an escape hatch; in this place between dimensions, a dark void loomed on the horizon, threatening to pull Robbie “down.” The Ghost Rider, not wanting to “go back” to this void, jumped to Mack in order to anchor itself in a host that wasn’t in danger. However, the Ghost Rider wasn’t going to make it in Mack very long, as Mack was “too good” to host it, at least according to Robbie.

But that doesn’t mean there’s no darkness in Mack. The Ghost Rider made it clear that Mack had lost Hope, but — as seen in the last few moments of the episode — Hope is a person, not an ideal. It’s unclear who Hope was to Mack; we only see the back of a photo, which is labeled with a name and a date. She is his could range from a girlfriend to a wife to a daughter to a sister. The show will likely pick up this thread in the latter half of the season.
So we now know Hope was Mack's daughter.  How did she pass?  Could there be guilt within Mack because he didn't do something to save her?  Maybe it's the guilt or darkness that let GR slip over to Mack for that short period.  Coulson seems to have quite a few skeletons in his closet, so I'm sure he's not a "pure" soul either.  Maybe that's the key?  Any non-pure soul can be inhabited, but the darker the soul - the longer the GR can inhabit the host.  Could this be tied to Coulson's rebirth back in Season 1?  The fact that he died and then brought back to life could have been a turning point to where he lost part of his soul, or darkened it?  Spit-balling here, but a thought.

 
Another thought, that last frame of Coulson and team being captured and waking up in space.  I wonder if AoS will be introducing S.W.O.R.D. next season?  It would open up a few new storylines and tie into the Inhumans a bit next fall.  Maybe even have the season begin with the team on Attillian?

 
My first thought on Coulson waking up and seeing space was... the Skrull Invasion has begun!!!

Though if he was being held prisoner on a spaceship while they replaced him, he didn't really act like it.

Plus admittedly, Skrulls replacing SHIELD members would be a bad story to have right on the heels of LMDs replacing SHIELD members. I think bcdjr1 is more likely to be right with it being an Inhuman spot he was in.

 
Attilan is an Inhuman city.

The prison in the negative zone is Prison 42.
http://heroichollywood.com/agents-s-h-e-l-d-worlds-end-easter-eggs-references/6/

At the end of the episode was agent Coulson and the rest of the team were arrested, thanks to Aida’s actions. The team knew that they would face some repercussions for the events of the episode and prepared to face it together. As they sat in a diner Avengers-style, a group of faceless agents (not agents of S.H.I.E.LD.) came to arrest them. They spoke about a “window” being open for a few more minutes. When Coulson woke up in his cell, he pressed a button in his cell to open the gate to reveal that he is on a space station and not on Earth anymore.

This is very reminiscent of Prison 42 from Marvel Comics. Prison 42 was created during the events of the “Civil War.” Iron Man, Mr. Fantastic, and Hank Pym created a supermax prison in the Negative Zone designed to house superpowered prisoners away from Earth. It looks like next season agent Coulson and the group will be trapped in space/another galaxy and have to find a way to free themselves.

 
Loved the finale, tugged at the heartstrings in multiple scenes.

Iirc, on the Skrulls, they are part of the Fantastic Four rights so that wouldn't be it. I could be wrong but swear I read that somewhere when they talked about using the Chitauri in the Avengers.

 
We've already seen one Kree artifact that had windows of time during which it was open and closed... the monolith that took them to the other planet. Could be another Kree portal they are referring to, which could make sense with the Inhuman city.

 
A move to Fridays might be good for the show, genre shows do well on Fridays. Liked the Doc's last scene too.

They didn't wrap anything up with the Mad Russian android, will we see him again next season?

 
I just sat through a Q&A with Ming Na Wen at Boston Comic Con.  Her looks at her age are not Hollywood magic.  If anything she is better looking in real life.  

She told one fun story about her audition for Agents of Shield.  The character she auditioned for was racially blind (meaning the writer\producers had no specific race in mind).  The characters name was originally Althea Rice.

After she won the role, one of the producers realized they could not have her play Agent Rice and changed the characters name to May. :)

She gave no spoilers for season 5 but did mention she completely blew out her knee on a stunt late in season 4.

 
So some good news last week as well - Season 5 will start as soon as The Inhumans ends - so should be around November 17th instead of January as it was originally speculated. They also said that since the start date was pushed back they are not planning on doing the long hiatus in between story arcs and breaks between new episodes like last year.

For those that didn't see the news, the show is moving to Friday nights but moving back up 1 hour. Hard to tell if it will hurt or help the ratings. I have read that AoS is one of the most DVR'ed shows out there: some of that having to do with the later time slot this past year (I always dvr'ed and watched a few days later.) Also, the revamped Once Upon a Time is moving to Friday as well and will be the lead-in. That may be better than having sit-coms as a lead-in but who knows? Grimm and Supernatural are both genre shows that thrived on Friday nights in recent years, hopefully AoS can do the same and continue to stick around.

 
So some good news last week as well - Season 5 will start as soon as The Inhumans ends - so should be around November 17th instead of January as it was originally speculated. They also said that since the start date was pushed back they are not planning on doing the long hiatus in between story arcs and breaks between new episodes like last year.

For those that didn't see the news, the show is moving to Friday nights but moving back up 1 hour. Hard to tell if it will hurt or help the ratings. I have read that AoS is one of the most DVR'ed shows out there: some of that having to do with the later time slot this past year (I always dvr'ed and watched a few days later.) Also, the revamped Once Upon a Time is moving to Friday as well and will be the lead-in. That may be better than having sit-coms as a lead-in but who knows? Grimm and Supernatural are both genre shows that thrived on Friday nights in recent years, hopefully AoS can do the same and continue to stick around.
Hopefully it at least taps into a similar audience that might leave the channel rather than find something else.

I'm also a DVR and watch later person.  I wonder if there are some types of shows that the audience is more likely to do that, and so it could end up hurting the ratings,  I could see sci-fi show audiences being at the top of the list of using technology more like that.  I frequently wait until a season is over and then binge-watch.

 
They really need to get back to syncing this up with the movie side of the MCU.

But what do I know?  I think they never should have dropped Agent Carter.

 

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