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**** OFFICIAL Marvel's Avengers: Endgame **** SPOILERS ALLOWED! Enter at your own risk!!! (1 Viewer)

I'm with Sheik

Some people are caught up in the euphoria and it clouds their judgement.

 
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TheIronSheik said:
The difference is they aren't doing the "guy scenes" to make a point.  People aren't complaining that there are women super heroes.  They are saying it was just ridiculous that during a crucial battle scene, all of the women and no men.  It just doesn't make sense.  Honestly, when I see stuff like this, it feels patronizing to women.  I think it says a lot more that Black Widow was part of the original Avengers and no one had to make a big deal about her then that strange scene in Endgame. 
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I thought it said a lot more when Scarlett Witch, a character who we've seen through multiple movies grow as a person, get some time kicking Thanos' ###. She absolutely could take Thanos with her powers. She earned the right to do so too with her character development. 

 
bigbottom said:
I agree, with two exceptions. Couldn’t really stand Captain Marvel. I didn’t see her standalone movie, so I probably didn’t have the investment in the character that I otherwise would have, but she annoyed me big time in endgame. Second, the scene where all the women gather to help Marvel get to the van was eye-rollingly bad. Just so, so bad. 
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You got 2:15 of her being wooden and annoying in Captain Marvel.  She was awful in it but the last 45 minutes or so of action still made it a decent movie.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
What I don't get is that Sam only operated the military Falcon weapons and has no super power so he'd make a pretty lame Captain America.
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There are a few ways this can be handled within the MCU, either drawing from within the MCU films themselves or else drawing from the comics:

a) Sam Wilson as Falcon is already a tech-based superhero. His existing tech-based powers plus the considerable advantages conferred by Cap's shield may be already considered formidable enough. But if not ...

b) In both the comics and the MCU: In print, Black Panther once replaced Falcon's old suit with a new tricked-out Wakanda-tech vibranium Falcon suit with a bunch of enhanced features. This is also available in the MCU: Shuri is back, and she can study Vision to grok Stark-tech and fold that into the existing Wakanda-tech. Would it be so far out of left field for her to make a better suit to boost Falcon up to around Iron Man power levels?

c) In the comics: Dr. Abraham Erskine's Super Serum that created Captain America didn't disappear when Erskine died -- comparable formulas for making Super Serum are out there in the wild. I think the backstory is that various allies and villains over the decades figured out ways to back-engineer the serum from CA's blood, incomplete notes Erskine wrote, or stuff like that. In one of the Falcon comics storylines, a scientist successfully applied a modified version of the Super-Soldier protocol (serum plus a dip in some kind of electrified fluid) to Sam Wilson while he was in prison.

d) In the MCU: Would be it be crazy within universe for Sam Wilson to find out that he was descended from Wakandan royal blood? Maybe some Wakandan prince back in the 1780s was on an emissary mission to another African nation when slavers came ashore and kidnapped said prince along with a bunch of locals. That prince got to America as a slave, took on the name "Jedediah Wilson" or something ... and modern Wakandan geneticists have been able to confirm that Sam Wilson is royal lineage. This might mean he gets a shot to fight for the magic herb, or that T'Challa (Black Panther) can just give him some of the magic herb for some reason. There's more blanks to fill in ... point being, the magic herb is out there and there could be a good in-universe way for Sam Wilson to get a hold of some.

 
Not every super hero has to have super powers. Iron Man doesn't. Just because Captain America did doesn't mean Captain Falcon has to.

 
shadyridr said:
Not every super hero has to have super powers. Iron Man doesn't. Just because Captain America did doesn't mean Captain Falcon has to.
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Absolutely true. I do expect Falcon to get a tech boost in a future MCU film, but even if he doesn't ... not every superhero has to be powered up to be able to credibly tangle with the likes of Thanos.

 
bigbottom said:
Oh come on. This isn’t about giving women their due in the Marvel universe. The women in the movie kicked total ###. It was awesome. But having them all magically assemble in the same location on the battlefield for the sole purpose of creating what was effectively a movie poster tableau was so forced and cringeworthy that it took me completely out of the moment. 
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Dad to three girls here.  Thought it was pretty cool for them to see that.  Especially in a world in which Trump treats women the way he does and his punishment is becoming the POTUS.

A little corny maybe, but worth it.  

 
Don't think the Black Panther flower still exists, it was all destroyed in the first movie, right? The current BP ingested the last one. 

 
parasaurolophus said:
Or they could travel through time. 
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Somehow I think that's a solution they only use once, or it gets cheap. In fact I'm sure much of the next phase could be spent dealing with the ramifications of the time travelling they already did. Looks like Far From Home is jumping right on that. 

 
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ConnSKINS26 said:
parasaurolophus said:
Or they could travel through time. 
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Somehow I think that's a solution they only use once, or it gets cheap. In fact I'm sure much of the next phase could be spent dealing with the ramifications of the time travelling they already did. Looks like Far From Home is jumping right on that. 
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It is an easy plot device to close. They used up all the Pym Particles. Without them, no Quantum Realm. No Quantum Realm, no time travel.

Of course, also an easy plot device to re-open. Look! We figured out how to make more Pym Particles!  Or Old Cap gave us his stash he hid away!

 
So regular people actually thought the all chick 10 second shot was some SJW shout out?

Now in this world every time women are shown being strong and independent it has to be for some ulterior motive?

SAD

 
James Daulton said:
So regular people actually thought the all chick 10 second shot was some SJW shout out?

Now in this world every time women are shown being strong and independent it has to be for some ulterior motive?

SAD
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Marvel has been repeatedly criticized for not focusing enough on their female characters. 

They got praise for infinity war when there was a featured all female fight scene. They got praise for captain marvel. 

So yeah a scene where they assemble all the women, most of whom have never worked together before and one that we dont even really have backstory on being a superhero, probably didnt just happen organically. 

Are you actually arguing that this scene just happened to come together? Like they had a vision for how the gauntlet should make its way through and the female heroes just fit into that puzzle the best on the story boards? 

 
Was the scene pandering? Yes. Did they do it to gain political points? Maybe. Was it also awesome for little girls? Yes. 

So even if they possibly did it for the wrong reasons (showing everyone that they showcase woman even though they already did), it still had a positive impact on something. The little girls that watched the movie will always remember that scene. 

The sad thing is that SJWs STILL were not satisfied with the amount of screen time women got in the film. They still complained that women were underrepresented.

So morale of the story is, don't try to pander to SJWs. They won't be happy no matter what you do. Just do your thing regardless which I thought they did a great job showcasing women in this film (Natasha leading Shield, Everything Nebula was in, Scarlet Witch!, Etc).

 
GregR said:
It is an easy plot device to close. They used up all the Pym Particles. Without them, no Quantum Realm. No Quantum Realm, no time travel.

Of course, also an easy plot device to re-open. Look! We figured out how to make more Pym Particles!  Or Old Cap gave us his stash he hid away!
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Hank Pym is still alive.  He can make more Pym particles.  There's no fear of this running out any time soon.  Also, Darren Cross figured out how to recreate them in the first Ant-Man movie, so the research is out there.

 
So, finally saw the movie yesterday and read through this thread (both took about the same amount of time).

I loved a lot of things, but here are some things I didn't like:

The Hulk/Banner merging was awful, imo.  Raging Hulk was always one of my favorite parts of the Avengers and it was absent from too many of the movies, especially the last two.

Fat slob Thor was funny at first, but they could have cleaned him up a bit at some point.  The gag got old and distracting.

Pepper suddenly being Rescue.  I know there were hints/teases, but she went from zero to 100 without any on screen explanation. 

My favorite scenes were Black Panther walking through the portal, Natasha sacrificing herself, the Hulk visiting the Ancient One, Scarlet Witch taking it to Thanos and Dr. Strange telling Tony what he had to do with a subtle look and gesture.  Lots of really, really good stuff along the way as well.

 
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bcdjr1 said:
Hank Pym is still alive.  He can make more Pym particles.  There's no fear of this running out any time soon.  Also, Darren Cross figured out how to recreate them in the first Ant-Man movie, so the research is out there.
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Good call. He's unsnapped now. Forgot about that. 

 
TheIronSheik said:
toshiba said:
I hate those scenes that just have the guys in them.  They are over the top!
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The difference is they aren't doing the "guy scenes" to make a point.  People aren't complaining that there are women super heroes.  They are saying it was just ridiculous that during a crucial battle scene, all of the women and no men.  It just doesn't make sense.  Honestly, when I see stuff like this, it feels patronizing to women.  I think it says a lot more that Black Widow was part of the original Avengers and no one had to make a big deal about her then that strange scene in Endgame. 
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The sad thing is that we live in a society that the point needs to be made.  But go ahead and get upset about a scene in a movie 🙄

 
toshiba said:
The sad thing is that we live in a society that the point needs to be made.  But go ahead and get upset about a scene in a movie 🙄
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You say that and yet during every movie up until Capt marvel came out, not a word was said about any of the females in any of the movies prior. Black Widow...loved in all her appearances from Iron Man 1 straight until her death. Scarlett Witch...loved her and she might be the strongest Avenger arguably, which also had zero grumbles from the mysogonyst crowd.

So the anti female mantra does not fly. Anti sledgehammer of a mantra at us is viable and being called out for what it is.

 
GregR said:
Very upset they'd try a poster moment in an Avengers film. I mean they should have really stuck with the kind of things we enjoyed seeing in The Avengers and in  Avengers: Age of Ultron.  
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Yes imagine that. Having a poster moment of the whole Avengers team in an Avengers movie. I wasn't aware the movie was called the "Marvel females that we've seen on screen except for the one that's dead."

Some the arguments defending the moment are as silly as the ones attacking it. Just stick with little girls loved it and that's all you need. 

 
I think the female empowerment scene would have had more power among people that are complaining if the females were all wearing bikinis. Cause, that is the only way to truly demonstrate female power. Guys would accept that.

 
James Daulton said:
Agree.  And that kind of takes the whole infinite rage and infinite strength out of the occasion.  When Hulk fought Supes, Supes was beating him down pretty good until Hulk got so angry that his strength finally matched that of Supes.
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Except the grey Hulk, which is what he was in End Game, was every bit as strong as the green precursor.

 
Jayrod said:
So, finally saw the movie yesterday and read through this thread (both took about the same amount of time).

I loved a lot of things, but here are some things I didn't like:

The Hulk/Banner merging was awful, imo.  Raging Hulk was always one of my favorite parts of the Avengers and it was absent from too many of the movies, especially the last two.

Fat slob Thor was funny at first, but they could have cleaned him up a bit at some point.  The gag got old and distracting.

Pepper suddenly being Rescue.  I know there were hints/teases, but she went from zero to 100 without any on screen explanation. 

My favorite scenes were Black Panther walking through the portal, Natasha sacrificing herself, the Hulk visiting the Ancient One, Scarlet Witch taking it to Thanos and Dr. Strange telling Tony what he had to do with a subtle look and gesture.  Lots of really, really good stuff along the way as well.
Click to expand...
Did you miss IM3??

 
Andy Dufresne said:
Again, the girl power scene was the MCU version of A-Force. Nothing more to it than that.

https://comicbook.com/marvel/2019/05/12/avengers-endgame-a-force-all-women-scene/

https://comicbook.com/marvel/2019/05/12/avengers-endgame-writers-a-force-fan-service-scene/
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Oh no, there was much  more to it than that guy!

A whole lot of SJW nonsense to appease the libs and Me2'ers and assorted ilk!  I mean, you couldn't possible show a strong female/females without it being a SJW dog whistle.  Strong women...like that happens IRL.

 
James Daulton said:
Oh no, there was much  more to it than that guy!

A whole lot of SJW nonsense to appease the libs and Me2'ers and assorted ilk!  I mean, you couldn't possible show a strong female/females without it being a SJW dog whistle.  Strong women...like that happens IRL.
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Ummmm.....They basically admit in the link Andy posted it was pandering. 

Avengers: Endgame writers Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely told Variety they included the shot because the MCU has had its fair share of all-men shots. 
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