***Official Philadelphia Phillies Thread*** - Castellanos ****s wit Philly (1 Viewer)

[Insein]

Not trying to pile on and I'm not a Philadelphia hater, but this is the worst game played by a team I've seen all year. They are just giving the Tigers runs on 4 ball walks and easy plays that should be outs. Dropped pop ups, high throws to home and just not judging distances of baserunners in motion.

Nah, it's cool. If anything, we're thankful for the ### whipping that they are receiving because it should leave no doubt in our GMs mind as to what they should do now.

 

[fred_1_15301]

Not trying to pile on and I'm not a Philadelphia hater, but this is the worst game played by a team I've seen all year. They are just giving the Tigers runs on 4 ball walks and easy plays that should be outs. Dropped pop ups, high throws to home and just not judging distances of baserunners in motion.

Nah, it's cool. If anything, we're thankful for the ### whipping that they are receiving because it should leave no doubt in our GMs mind as to what they should do now.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Totally pathetic series.

 

[Billy Bats]

Blow. It. Up.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Scored 13 runs in the first game after the break and have scored 14 in the next 8 combined.

 

[Insein]

Not trying to pile on and I'm not a Philadelphia hater, but this is the worst game played by a team I've seen all year. They are just giving the Tigers runs on 4 ball walks and easy plays that should be outs. Dropped pop ups, high throws to home and just not judging distances of baserunners in motion.

Nah, it's cool. If anything, we're thankful for the ### whipping that they are receiving because it should leave no doubt in our GMs mind as to what they should do now.

Why I said should not will.

 

[Billy Bats]

Rollins is some leader and team player.

“There are still a couple of things I’d like to be No. 1 in for this organization,” the team’s all-time leader in doubles and games at shortstop said, “so until those things are done, I’m not going anywhere.

 

[sporthenry]

Rollins is some leader and team player.

“There are still a couple of things I’d like to be No. 1 in for this organization,” the team’s all-time leader in doubles and games at shortstop said, “so until those things are done, I’m not going anywhere.

Well it'll be fun to see what he says after they start getting booed again. Lucky for them this 8 game losing stretch occurred on the road. While Paps is an idiot for what he said, he was kinda right. And I can't blame him for saying he doesn't want to be apart of another organization falling apart and trying to rebuild.

 

[teamramrod]

Doods...I am sorry.

I am a Tigers fan, but have family in Philly. My great aunt worked in concessions in the park back in the day and would take dinner down to the locker room. I got to go into the locker room in 80 with her. Carlton gave me an autograph, forget all the crap you heard from reporters. Mike gave me a game used, pine tar covered bat of his as a souvenir. I was the food lady's nephew and they were nice to me. For a thirteen year old kid, this was better than touching a real bewb of someone who was not related to you.

I jumped up and down when they won the series and they are dear to my baseball loving heart.

But OMG.....those guys are an embarrassment. How can we put up 22 runs in 2 games when Miggy plays less than half those innings?

I feel for you Philly.

Peace

 

[Billy Bats]

Rollins is some leader and team player.

“There are still a couple of things I’d like to be No. 1 in for this organization,” the team’s all-time leader in doubles and games at shortstop said, “so until those things are done, I’m not going anywhere.

Well it'll be fun to see what he says after they start getting booed again. Lucky for them this 8 game losing stretch occurred on the road. While Paps is an idiot for what he said, he was kinda right. And I can't blame him for saying he doesn't want to be apart of another organization falling apart and trying to rebuild.

#### Rollins. I'm tired of the popups, the loafing, the I'm too cool for school and me attitudes. It was bearable when they were winning, now it's just insufferable.

And Paps is a smacked ### too, which everyone knows. But what Rollins said was way worse than Paps speaking his mind.

Twitter rumors saying Lee to Boston is getting close. Bradley and Cecchini have been mentioned. Supposedly Phils aren't willing to keep too much, if any, salary though, which may squash any Lee trade.

 

[sporthenry]

Rollins is some leader and team player.

“There are still a couple of things I’d like to be No. 1 in for this organization,” the team’s all-time leader in doubles and games at shortstop said, “so until those things are done, I’m not going anywhere.

Well it'll be fun to see what he says after they start getting booed again. Lucky for them this 8 game losing stretch occurred on the road. While Paps is an idiot for what he said, he was kinda right. And I can't blame him for saying he doesn't want to be apart of another organization falling apart and trying to rebuild.

#### Rollins. I'm tired of the popups, the loafing, the I'm too cool for school and me attitudes. It was bearable when they were winning, now it's just insufferable.

And Paps is a smacked ### too, which everyone knows. But what Rollins said was way worse than Paps speaking his mind.

Twitter rumors saying Lee to Boston is getting close. Bradley and Cecchini have been mentioned. Supposedly Phils aren't willing to keep too much, if any, salary though, which may squash any Lee trade.

I kind of feel bad for Lee but he has sent mixed messages about wanting to stay or go. I'd probably leave it up to Lee, which it essentially is with his limited NTC. That said, if Lee wants out and RAJ's big hang up is not picking up some of the salary, that would be a huge mistake.

 

[E-Z Glider]

Rollins is some leader and team player.

“There are still a couple of things I’d like to be No. 1 in for this organization,” the team’s all-time leader in doubles and games at shortstop said, “so until those things are done, I’m not going anywhere.

Well it'll be fun to see what he says after they start getting booed again. Lucky for them this 8 game losing stretch occurred on the road. While Paps is an idiot for what he said, he was kinda right. And I can't blame him for saying he doesn't want to be apart of another organization falling apart and trying to rebuild.

#### Rollins. I'm tired of the popups, the loafing, the I'm too cool for school and me attitudes. It was bearable when they were winning, now it's just insufferable.

And Paps is a smacked ### too, which everyone knows. But what Rollins said was way worse than Paps speaking his mind.

Twitter rumors saying Lee to Boston is getting close. Bradley and Cecchini have been mentioned. Supposedly Phils aren't willing to keep too much, if any, salary though, which may squash any Lee trade.

I hope someone in Red Sox Nation reads Rosenthal's article today. I would be out of my mind if we landed Bogaerts for Lee/Young. Im not all that wild about JBJ which means that's probably who we'll get.

 

[The Flying Elvis]

Rollins is some leader and team player.

“There are still a couple of things I’d like to be No. 1 in for this organization,” the team’s all-time leader in doubles and games at shortstop said, “so until those things are done, I’m not going anywhere.

Well it'll be fun to see what he says after they start getting booed again. Lucky for them this 8 game losing stretch occurred on the road. While Paps is an idiot for what he said, he was kinda right. And I can't blame him for saying he doesn't want to be apart of another organization falling apart and trying to rebuild.

#### Rollins. I'm tired of the popups, the loafing, the I'm too cool for school and me attitudes. It was bearable when they were winning, now it's just insufferable.

And Paps is a smacked ### too, which everyone knows. But what Rollins said was way worse than Paps speaking his mind.

Twitter rumors saying Lee to Boston is getting close. Bradley and Cecchini have been mentioned. Supposedly Phils aren't willing to keep too much, if any, salary though, which may squash any Lee trade.

I hope someone in Red Sox Nation reads Rosenthal's article today. I would be out of my mind if we landed Bogaerts for Lee/Young. Im not all that wild about JBJ which means that's probably who we'll get.

Rosenthal's article is nonsense and makes very little sense. I'll eat crow though if we do trade him and I would be very pissed as would 95% of "Sox Nation". I really wouldn't even want to trade Bradley/Cecchini/+ a pitcher for Lee because I don't think he would be the difference between a WS and not one. The Sox do need a SP but they only get to impact the game every 5 days.

In my opinion I would find it tough for the Red Sox to deal either Bradley or Bogaerts because next year they are going to need a CF and a SS/3B. Cecchini is dealable because of Bogaerts/Middlebrooks/Iglesias. Also I'm fine trading Middlebrooks too even though his value is low. Keep Bogaerts/Bradley/Henry Owens/Matt Barnes.

1. The Sox shouldn't have to give up Bogaerts.

2. The Sox have a glaring need at 3B/SS for future and Bogaerts solves it.

3. Rosenthal is speaking out of his ###.

 

[sporthenry]

Rollins is some leader and team player.

“There are still a couple of things I’d like to be No. 1 in for this organization,” the team’s all-time leader in doubles and games at shortstop said, “so until those things are done, I’m not going anywhere.

Well it'll be fun to see what he says after they start getting booed again. Lucky for them this 8 game losing stretch occurred on the road. While Paps is an idiot for what he said, he was kinda right. And I can't blame him for saying he doesn't want to be apart of another organization falling apart and trying to rebuild.

#### Rollins. I'm tired of the popups, the loafing, the I'm too cool for school and me attitudes. It was bearable when they were winning, now it's just insufferable.

And Paps is a smacked ### too, which everyone knows. But what Rollins said was way worse than Paps speaking his mind.

Twitter rumors saying Lee to Boston is getting close. Bradley and Cecchini have been mentioned. Supposedly Phils aren't willing to keep too much, if any, salary though, which may squash any Lee trade.

I hope someone in Red Sox Nation reads Rosenthal's article today. I would be out of my mind if we landed Bogaerts for Lee/Young. Im not all that wild about JBJ which means that's probably who we'll get.

Rosenthal's article is nonsense and makes very little sense. I'll eat crow though if we do trade him and I would be very pissed as would 95% of "Sox Nation". I really wouldn't even want to trade Bradley/Cecchini/+ a pitcher for Lee because I don't think he would be the difference between a WS and not one. The Sox do need a SP but they only get to impact the game every 5 days.

In my opinion I would find it tough for the Red Sox to deal either Bradley or Bogaerts because next year they are going to need a CF and a SS/3B. Cecchini is dealable because of Bogaerts/Middlebrooks/Iglesias. Also I'm fine trading Middlebrooks too even though his value is low. Keep Bogaerts/Bradley/Henry Owens/Matt Barnes.

1. The Sox shouldn't have to give up Bogaerts.

2. The Sox have a glaring need at 3B/SS for future and Bogaerts solves it.

3. Rosenthal is speaking out of his ###.

Bogaerts would be too much. But you aren't getting Lee and keeping Bradley, Owens and Barnes (unless they try to build it around Webster who might not have as much value anymore).

Yes, we know SP's only pitch every 5 days, yet surprisingly, they are pretty valuable. Lee probably steps in and becomes the 1 or 1A of the staff. The Sox are 90% favorites to make the playoffs but Lee probably pushes them into the division. Additionally, Lee has a 2.52 ERA in the post season. He is older but he almost single-handedly won a WS in 2009.

As for Middlebrooks, yes his value is very low right now. Surprisingly, that means that it will take more to get Lee (not to mention the Phillies aren't in dire need of a 3B). And I think it'll take more than just JBJ. Sure, he had a nice spring, but he was overrated. He'll be a good everyday player but he won't be a star.

The Phillies will almost definitely have to pick up some of his salary (esp. his buyout/vesting option) if something is to get done. But it will probably take 2 of the Sox top 7-10 prospects along with some throw in from single A who is essentially a lottery ticket. Yes, the trade market isn't what it once was which is why Bogaerts will stay put but that doesn't mean its worth it to just throw someone away and RAJ would be right to hold out for more.

 

[Billy Bats]

Jeff Passan: Source: Phillies plan on calling up 3B Cody Asche. Points to Michael Young being traded today.

12:16pm - 30 Jul 13

 

[Billy Bats]

@nickcarfado (Boston globe)

From every indication Phillies won't settle for anything less than Bogaerts at the head of any package for Lee

12:10pm - 30 Jul 13

 

[sporthenry]

@nickcarfado (Boston globe)

From every indication Phillies won't settle for anything less than Bogaerts at the head of any package for Lee

12:10pm - 30 Jul 13

Then it probably doesn't happen. One thing that sucks is that most races aren't very competitive so no team will pull a Brewers trade for CC and go for it. 6 teams have playoff odds hovering around 90% with a 7th in the low 80's. So with the changing markets, it seems those teams would rather just add a piece or two instead of the big splash.

I know he is getting older but he is still pitching well and I'm not sure his salary is that terrible. Worst case, they can trade him next year or in the offseason when he has even less money owed to him.

 

[sporthenry]

Jeff Passan: Source: Phillies plan on calling up 3B Cody Asche. Points to Michael Young being traded today.

12:16pm - 30 Jul 13

Class act. Good guy. Sad to see him go but maybe he can win a ring. Crazy that nobody seems to know where he is going.

ETA:

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal now

Sources: #Phillies’ Michael Young only approve trade to #Rangers. Has full no-trade clause.

And there goes Young's value down the drain.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

@nickcarfado (Boston globe)

From every indication Phillies won't settle for anything less than Bogaerts at the head of any package for Lee

12:10pm - 30 Jul 13

Then it probably doesn't happen. One thing that sucks is that most races aren't very competitive so no team will pull a Brewers trade for CC and go for it. 6 teams have playoff odds hovering around 90% with a 7th in the low 80's. So with the changing markets, it seems those teams would rather just add a piece or two instead of the big splash.

I know he is getting older but he is still pitching well and I'm not sure his salary is that terrible. Worst case, they can trade him next year or in the offseason when he has even less money owed to him.

Agreed. I have no problem dealing him if RAJ gets wowed, but there is really no reason to move him just for the sake of moving him. He is not blocking anyone and still performs at a high level.

 

[Insein]

@nickcarfado (Boston globe)

From every indication Phillies won't settle for anything less than Bogaerts at the head of any package for Lee

12:10pm - 30 Jul 13

Then it probably doesn't happen. One thing that sucks is that most races aren't very competitive so no team will pull a Brewers trade for CC and go for it. 6 teams have playoff odds hovering around 90% with a 7th in the low 80's. So with the changing markets, it seems those teams would rather just add a piece or two instead of the big splash.

I know he is getting older but he is still pitching well and I'm not sure his salary is that terrible. Worst case, they can trade him next year or in the offseason when he has even less money owed to him.

Agreed. I have no problem dealing him if RAJ gets wowed, but there is really no reason to move him just for the sake of moving him. He is not blocking anyone and still performs at a high level.

This is what I am hoping for. Move Lee if someone gives you a ransom and pays most of his salary. Otherwise, he's worth more on this team.

 

[Billy Bats]

Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan

Jackie Bradley Jr. and Anthony Ranaudo pulled from minor league games, according to @jtomase and others. Red Sox may be up to something big.

 

[Eephus]

@nickcarfado (Boston globe)

From every indication Phillies won't settle for anything less than Bogaerts at the head of any package for Lee

12:10pm - 30 Jul 13

Then it probably doesn't happen. One thing that sucks is that most races aren't very competitive so no team will pull a Brewers trade for CC and go for it. 6 teams have playoff odds hovering around 90% with a 7th in the low 80's. So with the changing markets, it seems those teams would rather just add a piece or two instead of the big splash.

I know he is getting older but he is still pitching well and I'm not sure his salary is that terrible. Worst case, they can trade him next year or in the offseason when he has even less money owed to him.

Agreed. I have no problem dealing him if RAJ gets wowed, but there is really no reason to move him just for the sake of moving him. He is not blocking anyone and still performs at a high level.

This is what I am hoping for. Move Lee if someone gives you a ransom and pays most of his salary. Otherwise, he's worth more on this team.

Cody Ransom?

 

[Insein]

@nickcarfado (Boston globe)

From every indication Phillies won't settle for anything less than Bogaerts at the head of any package for Lee

12:10pm - 30 Jul 13

Then it probably doesn't happen. One thing that sucks is that most races aren't very competitive so no team will pull a Brewers trade for CC and go for it. 6 teams have playoff odds hovering around 90% with a 7th in the low 80's. So with the changing markets, it seems those teams would rather just add a piece or two instead of the big splash.

I know he is getting older but he is still pitching well and I'm not sure his salary is that terrible. Worst case, they can trade him next year or in the offseason when he has even less money owed to him.

Agreed. I have no problem dealing him if RAJ gets wowed, but there is really no reason to move him just for the sake of moving him. He is not blocking anyone and still performs at a high level.

This is what I am hoping for. Move Lee if someone gives you a ransom and pays most of his salary. Otherwise, he's worth more on this team.

Cody Ransom?

Lol, I'm thinking a bit bigger than that.

 

[Insein]

Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan

Jackie Bradley Jr. and Anthony Ranaudo pulled from minor league games, according to @jtomase and others. Red Sox may be up to something big.

Yep, but not with Lee. Peavy.

So if there are no big time offers for Lee, I hope Ruben has the will to hold.

 

[Billy Bats]

Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan

Jackie Bradley Jr. and Anthony Ranaudo pulled from minor league games, according to @jtomase and others. Red Sox may be up to something big.

Yep, but not with Lee. Peavy.

So if there are no big time offers for Lee, I hope Ruben has the will to hold.

For what reason though? This team is a mess, he needs to start the rebuild and dealing Lee would help move that along. I don't want to give him away, but if they could've gotten Bradley ++, but he held out for Bogaerts, then he's a fool.

 

[E-Z Glider]

Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan

Jackie Bradley Jr. and Anthony Ranaudo pulled from minor league games, according to @jtomase and others. Red Sox may be up to something big.

Yep, but not with Lee. Peavy.

So if there are no big time offers for Lee, I hope Ruben has the will to hold.

For what reason though? This team is a mess, he needs to start the rebuild and dealing Lee would help move that along. I don't want to give him away, but if they could've gotten Bradley ++, but he held out for Bogaerts, then he's a fool.

Id be much more interested in Bradley if we didnt already have Revere. Bradley is an above average defensive CF with speed and a top of the order contact hitter with a little bit of pop. Other than the "little bit of pop" it sounds redundant to me. JBJ doesnt project to be a star like Bogaerts. Rube asked for Xander, Boston (of course) declined and traded less valuable prospects for Peavy instead. If all is to be believed, Im perfectly happy with how it played out.

Id still like to see them trade MY if there is anything even a little valuable in return. If not, no big deal as he'll probably play 1B anyway and Asche (3B) and Ruf (RF) will still get their playing time.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan

Jackie Bradley Jr. and Anthony Ranaudo pulled from minor league games, according to @jtomase and others. Red Sox may be up to something big.

Yep, but not with Lee. Peavy.

So if there are no big time offers for Lee, I hope Ruben has the will to hold.

For what reason though? This team is a mess, he needs to start the rebuild and dealing Lee would help move that along. I don't want to give him away, but if they could've gotten Bradley ++, but he held out for Bogaerts, then he's a fool.

Because it's not like they really need to dump salary. If you are not getting legitimate prospects with a good chance to make the team competitive again, Lee is still worth more to the team. Honestly, if Cole had pitched the way he should have this year and Halladay were healthy, the team would be in decent shape for this year. 2 years ago, the lineup was flawed and they were still able to win 102. Given that they have the money to keep Lee, they better "know" that they are getting pieces back that will build the team. A pitcher of his caliber is just worth too much.

 

[JaxBill]

I understand not trading Lee unless an offer impresses you but now they're talking two or three year deal for Utley? And Michael Young might not go anywhere?

So "blowing it up" mean letting Halladay's contract expire? What are the plans for Galvis? trade him next summer for a 35 yo middle reliever to make "one more push"?

 

[E-Z Glider]

I understand not trading Lee unless an offer impresses you but now they're talking two or three year deal for Utley? And Michael Young might not go anywhere?

So "blowing it up" mean letting Halladay's contract expire? What are the plans for Galvis? trade him next summer for a 35 yo middle reliever to make "one more push"?

Utley for 2-3 years at $13m is a bargain even if he regresses. He may go down as one of the only true superstars in this game that never got a contract that far exceeded his value.

ETA - Not sure why all the hand-wringing over trading MY. No one is giving up anything of actual value to get him anyway.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

I understand not trading Lee unless an offer impresses you but now they're talking two or three year deal for Utley? And Michael Young might not go anywhere?

So "blowing it up" mean letting Halladay's contract expire? What are the plans for Galvis? trade him next summer for a 35 yo middle reliever to make "one more push"?

Utley for 2-3 years at $13m is a bargain even if he regresses. He may go down as one of the only true superstars in this game that never got a contract that far exceeded his value.

WAR was actually decent the past 3 years, despite injuries. If he regresses, though, he is not really going to be worth it. I guess it depends how much value he really has in terms of keeping up TV ratings (and to a lesser extent, ticket sales).

 

[Billy Bats]

Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan

Jackie Bradley Jr. and Anthony Ranaudo pulled from minor league games, according to @jtomase and others. Red Sox may be up to something big.

Yep, but not with Lee. Peavy.

So if there are no big time offers for Lee, I hope Ruben has the will to hold.

For what reason though? This team is a mess, he needs to start the rebuild and dealing Lee would help move that along. I don't want to give him away, but if they could've gotten Bradley ++, but he held out for Bogaerts, then he's a fool.

Because it's not like they really need to dump salary. If you are not getting legitimate prospects with a good chance to make the team competitive again, Lee is still worth more to the team. Honestly, if Cole had pitched the way he should have this year and Halladay were healthy, the team would be in decent shape for this year. 2 years ago, the lineup was flawed and they were still able to win 102. Given that they have the money to keep Lee, they better "know" that they are getting pieces back that will build the team. A pitcher of his caliber is just worth too much.

If if if. I'm just being a realist that this era is over, unlike the GM, and it's time to start something new.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

And I'm saying that a guy who contributes to you winning games now and in the relatively long run is not the key guy to get rid of without a relatively equivalent return. He's still got a good WAR, as opposed to someone like Pence (most years).

This would be my ranking of guys in order who would take the least for me to trade them to who would take the most:

Papelbon

Rollins (if someone would even take him)

Young

Utley (assuming he is going to be re-signed if not traded)

Lee

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Michael Young willing to waive no-trade clause for Red Sox, Yankeeshttp://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/eye-on-baseball/22951543/report-michael-young-now-willing-to-waive-notrade-clause-for-red-sox

 

[E-Z Glider]

This would be my ranking of guys in order who would take the least for me to trade them to who would take the most:

Papelbon

The closers for the 8 best teams in MLB (pit, stl, atl, lad, bos, tb, oak, det) make combined about 1/3 of what Papelbon makes. Yay us.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

It really is insane that almost every other team in baseball other than us has gotten the memo that you do not need to pay big money for a closer.

 

[Billy Bats]

 

[Billy Bats]

And I'm saying that a guy who contributes to you winning games now and in the relatively long run is not the key guy to get rid of without a relatively equivalent return. He's still got a good WAR, as opposed to someone like Pence (most years).

This would be my ranking of guys in order who would take the least for me to trade them to who would take the most:

Papelbon

Rollins (if someone would even take him)

Young

Utley (assuming he is going to be re-signed if not traded)

Lee

You really think you're getting anything in trades to help your team win with the top three guys on your list?

 

[JaxBill]

Tonight's lineup has MYoung at first, Asche at third, and Ruf in left.

 

[sporthenry]

This would be my ranking of guys in order who would take the least for me to trade them to who would take the most:

Papelbon

The closers for the 8 best teams in MLB (pit, stl, atl, lad, bos, tb, oak, det) make combined about 1/3 of what Papelbon makes. Yay us.

Huh? Paps makes $13 million. Girilli $2.5, Mujica $3.2 and that is already more than 1/3 combined of what Paps makes. Unless you are considering the life of his contract which would just be stupid. It also fails to take into account the fact that Mujica was arbitration eligible and guys like Kimbrel are still on their rookie deals. Or the fact that the Dodgers are paying League $5.5 million to not close. Or that the Red Sox have $7 million and $4 million committed to closers who aren't pitching.

Not that this absolves RAJ for paying $13 million on a closer especially with other more obvious holes but Soriano is making $14 million and guys like Nathan or Street are at $7 million. So sure, they overpaid but comparing him to Kimbrel isn't really fair since it isn't like the Phillies have other options at closer so they'd either have to use an already depleted farm system to get a closer under control, overpay on the FA market, or sign someone like Grili on a minor league deal and pray that he actually becomes good. That or we'd be #####ing that our closer is Bastardo or Aumont.

 

[Thunderlips]

Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan

Jackie Bradley Jr. and Anthony Ranaudo pulled from minor league games, according to @jtomase and others. Red Sox may be up to something big.

Yep, but not with Lee. Peavy.

So if there are no big time offers for Lee, I hope Ruben has the will to hold.

For what reason though? This team is a mess, he needs to start the rebuild and dealing Lee would help move that along. I don't want to give him away, but if they could've gotten Bradley ++, but he held out for Bogaerts, then he's a fool.

Because it's not like they really need to dump salary. If you are not getting legitimate prospects with a good chance to make the team competitive again, Lee is still worth more to the team. Honestly, if Cole had pitched the way he should have this year and Halladay were healthy, the team would be in decent shape for this year. 2 years ago, the lineup was flawed and they were still able to win 102. Given that they have the money to keep Lee, they better "know" that they are getting pieces back that will build the team. A pitcher of his caliber is just worth too much.

There was a guy on 610 today who actually made a bit of sense in regards to the Phils not selling. To that, he argued that.

A rotation of Lee, Hamels, Kendrick, Gonzalez and Halladay (on a friendly deal) would be competitive with just about anyone.

That Brown and Revere are young enough to build around and can be 2/3 of a productive OF.

That if healthy...Utley is still one of the best 2B in the game.

That noone would want Rollins or Howard....but at this point the idea that they bounce back to a relative level of respecitibility next year is more valuable than any players they would have gotten. (They're 34 and 33....not young....but not ancient)

You throw in a young 3B (either Asche or Franco), you hope Galvis can become a legit bench player (at 3 positions) and you get a RH power bat for RF....and all of sudden you could be turning the team over while still being competitive.

 

[Insein]

Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan

Jackie Bradley Jr. and Anthony Ranaudo pulled from minor league games, according to @jtomase and others. Red Sox may be up to something big.

Yep, but not with Lee. Peavy.

So if there are no big time offers for Lee, I hope Ruben has the will to hold.

For what reason though? This team is a mess, he needs to start the rebuild and dealing Lee would help move that along. I don't want to give him away, but if they could've gotten Bradley ++, but he held out for Bogaerts, then he's a fool.

Because it's not like they really need to dump salary. If you are not getting legitimate prospects with a good chance to make the team competitive again, Lee is still worth more to the team. Honestly, if Cole had pitched the way he should have this year and Halladay were healthy, the team would be in decent shape for this year. 2 years ago, the lineup was flawed and they were still able to win 102. Given that they have the money to keep Lee, they better "know" that they are getting pieces back that will build the team. A pitcher of his caliber is just worth too much.

There was a guy on 610 today who actually made a bit of sense in regards to the Phils not selling. To that, he argued that.

A rotation of Lee, Hamels, Kendrick, Gonzalez and Halladay (on a friendly deal) would be competitive with just about anyone.

That Brown and Revere are young enough to build around and can be 2/3 of a productive OF.

That if healthy...Utley is still one of the best 2B in the game.

That noone would want Rollins or Howard....but at this point the idea that they bounce back to a relative level of respecitibility next year is more valuable than any players they would have gotten. (They're 34 and 33....not young....but not ancient)

You throw in a young 3B (either Asche or Franco), you hope Galvis can become a legit bench player (at 3 positions) and you get a RH power bat for RF....and all of sudden you could be turning the team over while still being competitive.

Lot of "ifs" in there. But I'm still more comfortable with that than having Ruben make trades like Lee 2010, Victorino and Pence 2012. Top prospects or nothing. I'm glad he held firm. Lee is worth more to this team than 2nd tier prospects would be. Still would have moved Michael Young and Pappelbon for something but if all he was getting was a bag of balls offered, I'd have held too.

 

[sporthenry]

Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan

Jackie Bradley Jr. and Anthony Ranaudo pulled from minor league games, according to @jtomase and others. Red Sox may be up to something big.

Yep, but not with Lee. Peavy.

So if there are no big time offers for Lee, I hope Ruben has the will to hold.

For what reason though? This team is a mess, he needs to start the rebuild and dealing Lee would help move that along. I don't want to give him away, but if they could've gotten Bradley ++, but he held out for Bogaerts, then he's a fool.

Because it's not like they really need to dump salary. If you are not getting legitimate prospects with a good chance to make the team competitive again, Lee is still worth more to the team. Honestly, if Cole had pitched the way he should have this year and Halladay were healthy, the team would be in decent shape for this year. 2 years ago, the lineup was flawed and they were still able to win 102. Given that they have the money to keep Lee, they better "know" that they are getting pieces back that will build the team. A pitcher of his caliber is just worth too much.

There was a guy on 610 today who actually made a bit of sense in regards to the Phils not selling. To that, he argued that.

A rotation of Lee, Hamels, Kendrick, Gonzalez and Halladay (on a friendly deal) would be competitive with just about anyone.

That Brown and Revere are young enough to build around and can be 2/3 of a productive OF.

That if healthy...Utley is still one of the best 2B in the game.

That noone would want Rollins or Howard....but at this point the idea that they bounce back to a relative level of respecitibility next year is more valuable than any players they would have gotten. (They're 34 and 33....not young....but not ancient)

You throw in a young 3B (either Asche or Franco), you hope Galvis can become a legit bench player (at 3 positions) and you get a RH power bat for RF....and all of sudden you could be turning the team over while still being competitive.

Not a surprise. Like we've discussed, they really can't blow it up with the TV deal. Teams just don't want to make trades with the 2nd WC and prospects being so much more valuable. This year seemed especially bad since most races are already decided.

I think a change of coaches might also do well. Get a new voice in there with some fire. Cholly's grandfather attitude seems to make them too complacent. Not to mention, Sandberg might keep guys like Asche and Revere motivated so they don't become J-Rolls.

Biggest thing will be another right handed bat. I'm sure they'll try to push Ruf but he ain't it. Choo and Ellsbury probably don't fit the bill. Maybe they try to bring Pence back. I still like the idea of Rios for a year but he'll obviously cost something.

 

[E-Z Glider]

Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan

Jackie Bradley Jr. and Anthony Ranaudo pulled from minor league games, according to @jtomase and others. Red Sox may be up to something big.

Yep, but not with Lee. Peavy.

So if there are no big time offers for Lee, I hope Ruben has the will to hold.

For what reason though? This team is a mess, he needs to start the rebuild and dealing Lee would help move that along. I don't want to give him away, but if they could've gotten Bradley ++, but he held out for Bogaerts, then he's a fool.

Because it's not like they really need to dump salary. If you are not getting legitimate prospects with a good chance to make the team competitive again, Lee is still worth more to the team. Honestly, if Cole had pitched the way he should have this year and Halladay were healthy, the team would be in decent shape for this year. 2 years ago, the lineup was flawed and they were still able to win 102. Given that they have the money to keep Lee, they better "know" that they are getting pieces back that will build the team. A pitcher of his caliber is just worth too much.

There was a guy on 610 today who actually made a bit of sense in regards to the Phils not selling. To that, he argued that.

A rotation of Lee, Hamels, Kendrick, Gonzalez and Halladay (on a friendly deal) would be competitive with just about anyone.

That Brown and Revere are young enough to build around and can be 2/3 of a productive OF.

That if healthy...Utley is still one of the best 2B in the game.

That noone would want Rollins or Howard....but at this point the idea that they bounce back to a relative level of respecitibility next year is more valuable than any players they would have gotten. (They're 34 and 33....not young....but not ancient)

You throw in a young 3B (either Asche or Franco), you hope Galvis can become a legit bench player (at 3 positions) and you get a RH power bat for RF....and all of sudden you could be turning the team over while still being competitive.

Lot of "ifs" in there. But I'm still more comfortable with that than having Ruben make trades like Lee 2010, Victorino and Pence 2012. Top prospects or nothing. I'm glad he held firm. Lee is worth more to this team than 2nd tier prospects would be. Still would have moved Michael Young and Pappelbon for something but if all he was getting was a bag of balls offered, I'd have held too.

If some team was willing to take Papelbons contract, Id move him for a bag of balls. If some team claims him this month, Id let them have him. Nothing worse than an overpaid player with a big mouth that no one likes.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

And I'm saying that a guy who contributes to you winning games now and in the relatively long run is not the key guy to get rid of without a relatively equivalent return. He's still got a good WAR, as opposed to someone like Pence (most years).

This would be my ranking of guys in order who would take the least for me to trade them to who would take the most:

Papelbon

Rollins (if someone would even take him)

Young

Utley (assuming he is going to be re-signed if not traded)

Lee

You really think you're getting anything in trades to help your team win with the top three guys on your list?

No, I'm just saying if you want to blow it up for the sake of blowing it up, start with the guys who don't mean much anyway. Like when Gillick got rid of Abreu, Lidle, et al.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

This would be my ranking of guys in order who would take the least for me to trade them to who would take the most:

Papelbon

The closers for the 8 best teams in MLB (pit, stl, atl, lad, bos, tb, oak, det) make combined about 1/3 of what Papelbon makes. Yay us.

Huh? Paps makes $13 million. Girilli $2.5, Mujica $3.2 and that is already more than 1/3 combined of what Paps makes. Unless you are considering the life of his contract which would just be stupid. It also fails to take into account the fact that Mujica was arbitration eligible and guys like Kimbrel are still on their rookie deals. Or the fact that the Dodgers are paying League $5.5 million to not close. Or that the Red Sox have $7 million and $4 million committed to closers who aren't pitching.

Not that this absolves RAJ for paying $13 million on a closer especially with other more obvious holes but Soriano is making $14 million and guys like Nathan or Street are at $7 million. So sure, they overpaid but comparing him to Kimbrel isn't really fair since it isn't like the Phillies have other options at closer so they'd either have to use an already depleted farm system to get a closer under control, overpay on the FA market, or sign someone like Grili on a minor league deal and pray that he actually becomes good. That or we'd be #####ing that our closer is Bastardo or Aumont.

The point is that these other teams just seem to find guys to do the job somehow, yet we can't. Which goes to the heart of the issue ultimately, which is the Phillies' terrible player evaluation and development.

I mean, look at the Cardinals and Braves. They bring up young guys who fill spots and become stars. Especially the Cardinals, who are also excellent at signing free agents. Lost Pujols? No problem, we'll just sign Beltran on a friendly deal and bring up Allen freaking Craig and keep it rolling. And our closer changes every year.

The Phillies can't figure out how to get anyone to even contribute marginally to their major league team among all the name guys that they've traded. And they gave away Cosart and Singleton for Pence. Though I was certainly in favor of that deal and I will always give away lower level prospects for proven starters, but it would just be nice to once see them hit on some prospects one way or another.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

They have to take 4 of the next 6 games after taking 2 of 3 from Pittsburgh

They're going to go 7-3 on this homestand and then Ruben will think they're buyers. Which honestly is probably a good thing because I do not trust him to be a seller anymore.

Not sure what I trust him with anymore. Yesterday, he was asked about Howard and he said that Howard's been having a lot of trouble with lefties and he needs to get better and he will. What exactly leads us to believe that?

Howard hasn't hit lefties his entire career. Why would he be able to hit them now given he's on the decline? Amaro is an absolute patronizing joke. He should be selling this year but won't. Earlier in the season, I thought the team might be competitive but they just have so many holes. They are a .500 team at best and they absolutely need to start replenishing the farm

The problem is Ruben's track record shows that we can sell and still get nothing to replenish the farm back. We basically got nothing for Victorino and maybe a backup catching prospect for Pence. Lee the first time is a disaster. What can he dow for an encore with Pappelbon, Lee 2.0, Utley and Jimmy? We could be the new Pirates while the Pirates take off.

Well Victorino didn't have a ton of value. He was a free agent at the end of the year and LA didn't get any compensation if he signed elsewhere. Pence was under team control but was/is also being overpaid for his production. The Phillies weren't going anywhere and wanted to get under the luxury tax.

As far as returns, Joseph is more than a backup prospect. He was the #3 prospect in the system and #7 catcher overall entering the year. Yes, he has scuffled a ton this year but his upside is still high. And Ethan Martin entered the season ahead of Pettibone on MLB's prospects rankings. So I'd hardly say they didn't get anything back. I actually think they got quite a bit back for two guys who played like crap last year.

Martin being called up to start on Friday in place of Cliff Lee.

http://phuturephillies.com/2013/08/01/phillies-call-up-ethan-martin/

 

[Bigboy10182000]

The whole blowing it up thing was a little overboard IMO. I don't want to be the Marlins at all.

 

[Billy Bats]

Congrats to Brad Lidge on retiring as a Phillie. Thanks for the awesome '08 season.

 

[Insein]

Congrats to Brad Lidge on retiring as a Phillie. Thanks for the awesome '08 season.

One of the handful of guys that get a free pass for life with me because of that season. Hamels is another one even with all his whining and terrible play. 08 was just too awesome.

Nice job Lidgey.

 

[sporthenry]