Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
All you have to do is read this forum over the last four years to see crazy conspiracy theories and wild baseless speculation of what might happen. But TikTok
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***Official President Joe Biden Thread*** BEST EVER! (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter SHIZNITTTT
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Stealthycat
Footballguy
I haven't seen Biden sway a peep about the BLM/ANTIFA violence over the last 48 hours, he's not denounced either of them. Also, the treatment of the national guard soldiers is disgraceful. passing the EO on wearing masks on federal property then not wearing a mask on federal propertyShatner! said:
"c'mon man" might be as much responsibility as we see from Joe I'm afraid, time will tell but so far, a horrible start to his presidency
Stealthycat
Footballguy
work with me here
when cost of fuel goes up - so does the cost of goods/services
when cost of labor goes up - so does the cost of goods/services
when labor costs go up, companies lay people off, using automated or simply slashing their labor costs etc
you do know these things, right?
Joe is talking about a 100% in increase in min wage to $15 an hour - the inflation that's going to spawn is enormous. I was luck and got a 3% raise this year.
Cost of goods/services will skyrocket, low income people will still be low income, fixed income will be hit hard, and middle class people won't see a pay raise, but they'll have to pay much more for goods/services and so they'll be hit hard too.
mr roboto
Footballguy
Raising minimum-wage may cause prices to rise but it will also give tons of people more discretionary spending power who are currently no barely able to afford rent. I employ people at the $15-$20 an hour level and as minimum wage increases I will probably have to raise my pay scale a few dollars over the next few years as well which yes means that my prices will go up.
We seem to be the only country that struggles to comprehend you can raise minimum wages and increase the tax base and provide more social services and not completely destroy the economy. We’ve got this weird belief here that corporate profits are the most important thing to protect in the economy.
Trumps economy was great for business owners but it was terrible for the national debt. I’m assuming you were outraged by the long-term impact on our nations solvency when those were passed right?
I’m glad we have policy disagreements in this country. But honestly I think people need to reassess the passion with which they hold their views if they think the other sides policy on something as large as the economy is literally going to doom this country to failure.
Most of the time economic policy either favors or impacts one group more. I honestly think a more conservative economic policy is FANTASTIC for business owners (which I am). It’s not so beneficial for wage workers.
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Stealthycat
Footballguy
do you not thin rent will skyrocket along with the wage increase? not just the rent but utilities will increase, groceries, clothing - anything shipped or handled by min wage people will jump in prices
because of that, $15 an hour will literally be no more than $8 an hour was because the costs of everything is so high
mr roboto
Footballguy
By this logic wages aren’t even relevant then. Because no matter what costs negate wage increases. So we might as well drop wages to reduce prices!
I will admit that I need to study more on the effects of raising minimum wages. Could you link to any studies you’ve read that have helped you form your opinion?
tri-man 47
Footballguy
That's the response that came to my mind as well. But when it comes to paying a living wage, to quote William Wallace, "we hav to try."
[Anecdote: Article in this morning's Chicago Tribune of a house fire in a poor, west side neighborhood about 4-5 miles from where I live. 2 people died; others injured. The fire started because they were running space heaters and the oven to try to keep warm.]
Stealthycat
Footballguy
wages matter absolutely - gradual increases are one thing, but a 100% increase is unheard of and the damages it'd do to fixed income (elderly on SS) as well as disability people and the middle class who wouldn't see increases is frightening
maybe you're right - maybe we can go to $20 or $30 for unskilled workers and no business owners will increase their prices on their good and services .... that makes zero sense, but I suppose anything is possible
a quick google says
Typically, labor cost percentages average 20 to 35 percent of gross sales. Appropriate percentages vary by industry, A service business might have an employee percentage of 50 percent or more, but a manufacturer will usually need to keep the figure under 30 percent.
increase those labor costs and how will a business remain profitable? cut employee's is one option, cut hours, cut benefits .... raise prices .... there HAS to be an off-set anytime a "cost" is increased for a company
right ?
mr roboto
Footballguy
I
never said prices would t rise! My god I literally said I own businesses and as wages rise I will have to raise prices.
You think prices are the only offset for wage increases? Business is way more complex than price-wages=profit. I don’t think raising the minimum wage by let’s say 50% would raise prices by 50%. Do you?!?!
Re:labor costs in businesses - every industry and model is different. In my industry it’s about 35-40% but I’m in service (ie don’t sell products so no inventory/COGS).
Look - if you earn a regular wage and your concern is for the business owners profit you’ve been propagandized to literally advocate against your own interest. And I say this as a business owner.
What we need to do is stop letting billionaires and multinational corporations out of paying their fair share. Too many loopholes but that’s a different conversation.
I think a majority of middle class wage earners disproportionately contribute to the tax base and small businesses too.
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Summer Wheat
Footballguy
2 bombings in Iraq with at least 32 dead. ISIS takes responsibility. Is this a test for Biden already to see how he resonds? Or just a random attack?
Stealthycat
Footballguy
do you ever think people look at you and what you have and wonder why you don't pay your fair share ?
FYI rich people pay taxes
half of US taxpayers paid 97% of all US income taxes in 2016
low income people don't pay income taxes - but you know this, right?
https://taxfoundation.org/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2018-update/#:~:text=The top 1 percent paid,50 percent (3.7 percent).
Thunderlips
Footballguy
It's weird.
The solution from The Right to be a GREATER force on this planet it to pull away from everything else on the planet and allow (perceived) adversaries to fill the vacuum.
Trump supporters would plotz if they knew how much China is investing in Africa....but hey,.... "IF WE HAVE TO PAY FOR OUR INTERNATIONAL FRIENDS!...THEN I DON'T WANT THEM!!!"
HellToupee
Footballguy
Link
“Slow start: Biden’s opening approval below Trump and Obama, just 48%
President Biden’s opening approval rating isn’t much to cheer about, coming in below that of his two predecessors.
In Rasmussen Reports’ first Presidential Daily Tracking Poll of likely voters, the new Democratic president starts at 48% approving and 45% disapproving.
Notably, he is underwater with women (46% approve, 48% disapprove) and whites (43% approve, 51% disapprove).
Rasmussen’s daily survey number is an average of the last three days.
By comparison, Biden’s approval is ho-hum compared to former Presidents Donald Trump and Barack Obama, said the polling data.”
Based on Biden’s reported popular vote count you would think this would be higher
“Slow start: Biden’s opening approval below Trump and Obama, just 48%
President Biden’s opening approval rating isn’t much to cheer about, coming in below that of his two predecessors.
In Rasmussen Reports’ first Presidential Daily Tracking Poll of likely voters, the new Democratic president starts at 48% approving and 45% disapproving.
Notably, he is underwater with women (46% approve, 48% disapprove) and whites (43% approve, 51% disapprove).
Rasmussen’s daily survey number is an average of the last three days.
By comparison, Biden’s approval is ho-hum compared to former Presidents Donald Trump and Barack Obama, said the polling data.”
Based on Biden’s reported popular vote count you would think this would be higher
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
Not a good start but are we even sure he is aware of the National Guard and the Portland-Seattle violence? I doubt he watches TV and if he is not briefed on these things he would not know.
I though Anifta was anti-Trump and they are..but now they are anti-Biden and just anti police and government in general.
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caustic
Footballguy
Here's a really solid article that sums up the economic theory and empirical literature on minimum wage hikes. There's been quite a shift among economists over the last few decades. Noah Smith: A $15 minimum wage is pretty safe
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caustic
Footballguy
I mentioned this in the COVID response thread but Biden's proposed overhaul of the child tax credit is very exciting. We currently spend less on children than almost every other developed nation. Not only is Biden expanding the CTC ($3600/year for children under age 6, $3000/year for ages 6-17), but Dems are hoping to send the benefits in monthly installments, making it similar to the child allowance policies in Canada and other countries.
It's estimated that this expansion would reduce childhood poverty by 40-50%. Child allowances are also linked to lower alcohol and tobacco consumption among parents, presumably because they're less stressed about the family's financial situation. Seems like a really good idea.
It's estimated that this expansion would reduce childhood poverty by 40-50%. Child allowances are also linked to lower alcohol and tobacco consumption among parents, presumably because they're less stressed about the family's financial situation. Seems like a really good idea.
dawgtrails
Footballguy
I think we need more than just Rasmussen on this. Just a couple days ago, there were numerous polls that had Biden in the high 60's
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
mr roboto
Footballguy
Income tax isn’t the only tax. Hope that helps.
Rich people (meaning high net worth, not just high income) can earn money ‘cheaper’ through capital gains, asset appreciation etc. We tax income too much and asset transfer not enough IMO.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
I think with any landline poll you have to start here - https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-8/are-most-americans-cutting-the-cord-on-landlines.htm
HellToupee
Footballguy
GordonGekko
Footballguy
Minimum Wage in the Era of Automation
written by theeconreview Published on April 22, 2019
https://theeconreview.com/2019/04/22/minimum-wage-in-the-era-of-automation/
******
The X Factor will be automation. Certainly that will take time, but "The Great Reset" in place will naturally give advantages to big corporations over small businesses.
The other issue is that landlords in general, the smaller level ones, are getting the major squeeze during the pandemic. They can't evict anyone and who knows how long that will last but there is no real relief in place for them. As big corporations and the wealthy elite eventually start to buy them out at pennies on the dollar, you'll see the price of rent going up. You also will have successive generations under the FI/RE movement, who will embrace minimalism and won't seek having children/owning property and that has a destabilizing impact on the economy when done in mass.
Fewer people getting married and a drop in the birth rate plus an aging society that lives longer than ever before is not a good receipe consider a future tax base with the reality of a massive deficit in place.
There will be an entire wave of new homeless spinning out from the pandemic and once you are out on the street, it's an uphill fight to get your bearings back. I was homeless out of high school many many many years ago and I can tell you it's a complete nightmare.
So it's not just minimum wage but a range of economic issues spinning out from the pandemic. Seeing minimum wage increases in a vacuum makes it look more digestable than when you look at it against multiple other current financial realities.
One my neighbors has three sons. One just finished high school, one is a few years way, the last is a good bit younger. Their father and I have talked to all of them, they are all joining the military. One is signing up now, the next is all but a lock at this point. When you look at the state pension crisis in many places plus deep questions about previous stalwarts like working for the state, utilities, what's left of unionized work, etc, etc, the military is looking like the only real choice left for many.
The real struggle with the Biden administration is the idea of buying votes via public policy. Raising the minimum wage and teasing college loan forgiveness was just that. So was Trump's money pushed to the HBCUs and the Platinum Plan. Every major voting block's vote is not for free, but how many tax dollars are going to be spent to make sure each group gets their political pork?
mr roboto
Footballguy
We act as if automation is a necessity because corporations will always find ways to cut costs. We act as if small landlords will inevitably fail and large real estate holding companies will buy them out. We hand ring over the fact that when wages increase companies will just increase profits instead of looking at other areas of their budget to retain margins while paying their employees more.
Listen, the market only does these things because the public lets them. We can choose to pay people more for menial labor and holdback automation if ultimately that’s in the best interest of our economy. We can pass a universal basic income if we want to let automation run roughshod over 20% of the jobs in the economy and tax the production side to pay for it.
We can do whatever the hell we want from a public policy perspective because we run our society. What drives me nuts is that for a significant portion of the conservative base, with which I used to be in lockstep, feel that defending corporations’ ability to make profit is more important than protecting workers opportunities to make living wages.
We can set the rules of the new economy and through incentives and tax breaks and additional taxes levied we can impact behavior.
Ultimately the rich elites need the vast under classes to at least be satisfied with their lives so they don’t revolt. I’m afraid without significant shift of public policy far to the left we will never see a 1950s era large middle class in this country.
GordonGekko
Footballguy
I don't think many people are against raising the minimum wage. I do think many conservatives have reservations if the initial impact will be sustainable for the long term. I also think many believe raising the minimum wage would need to roll out in tandem with other specific public policy to shield how corporations will naturally respond to such legislation.
In one of the other threads, I suggested only products made with at least 50 percent US sourced parts can be sold. And all companies over X threshold must have 50 percent of it's labor force be American citizens. Obviously the percentage number could shift a bit, but in principle, the idea would be to force job creation.
If we want more jobs for Americans, we need to leverage corporations into creating them or be excluded from our market. I remember when Michael Moore asked Phil Knight if he would build a Nike factory in Flint, Michigan, so it could create jobs and save that town, and obviously Knight was in a complicated position. He had a fiduciary responsibility to his shareholders but the reality is that it's more profitable to have sweat shop labor stitching together Nikes. However if Knight could not sell a single shoe in America unless 50 percent of his workforce was American citizens, then that changes the entire ballgame. Some would argue how that would drive up the cost of Nikes period. My answer is no one needs a pair of Nikes to survive. And if Nikes needed material where half of it had to come from US based production/sourcing, then that also changes things.
We need Americans to buy from Americans. We need Americans to shop American. We need actual logistics in place that have longevity in nature.
Raising minimum wage on it's own nationwide is not a sustainable plan. Obviously mine has all kinds of problems too. But I think you see where I'm going with this. I do want all Americans to have gainful employment and their children to have real opportunity for the basics of life.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Hours after signing the federal mask mandate on federal property and land Biden was at the Lincoln Memorial maskless.
Michigans Gretchen Whitmer for months has said "Avoid large gatherings, Don`t travel, stay home, stay safe" Then she takes selfies in the middle of a big crowd in DC"
I guess the rules are just for "other people" like us.
Michigans Gretchen Whitmer for months has said "Avoid large gatherings, Don`t travel, stay home, stay safe" Then she takes selfies in the middle of a big crowd in DC"
I guess the rules are just for "other people" like us.
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
I think America is in for the biggest case pf 'buyers remorse" in history.
HellToupee
Footballguy
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Very puzzling. This will raise costs for those in need. Joe must getting some bad advice.
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Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
Trump's recent orders were frozen so they could be reviewed. Doesn't seem all that puzzling. Singling this one out to highlight might be a bit disingenuous since it sure seems like this was a broad brush rather than a targeted policy change.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
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Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
This is in there wheelhouse-
"Newsweek published some articles we didn't typically see in left-wing media outlets, such as articles about apparent hypocrisy on the part of politicians around Covid-19 restrictions:...., as well as headlines from people who are skeptical of government-mandated covid measures,"
https://www.allsides.com/news-source/newsweek
"Newsweek has a Center media bias. Newsweek's bias has shifted significantly in recent years.
Note that a Center bias does not necessarily mean a source is unbiased, neutral, or always reasonable. It simply means the source does not predictably publish opinions and content biased toward either side of the political spectrum. The bias of individual articles may vary."
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
he's the President - he's supposed to know what's happening, especially since its happened for 4 years under Trump AND the left demanded denouncing violence and the groups behind it - where is that same call right now ?
the hypocrisy is very deep
Stealthycat
Footballguy
any insulin users or carriers of medi-pens should be furiousDa Guru said:
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
This feels like wishful thinking on your part. Most people I know voted for Biden because he was not Trump and I suspect he will remain not Trump for his entire Presidency.NorvilleBarnes said:
Stealthycat
Footballguy
true
rich people pay vastly more taxes on their property and lands. Can you imagine Schumer's monthly electric bill on his mansion? Can you imagine Hillary and Bill's yearly taxes on what they own? They all pay way, way more on everything because they have more of everything.
the rich pay for almost EVERYTHING in this country that the Govt "takes" for its income .... and somehow, Democrats have made people believe the rich are not paying enough. its stunningly amazing - and when I post statistics on just how much rich pay, those believing they don't pay enough go silent, withdraw, and refuse to believe they're believed something that isn't true
Stealthycat
Footballguy
agreed with all of this - very very few voted Biden
they voted Harris or not-Trump
Desert_Power
Footballguy
This is a change of pace:
Jennifer Epstein @jeneps
Joe Biden is attending mass on the first Sunday of his presidency at Holy Trinity Catholic Church in Georgetown, where he often went to mass during his eight years as vice president. Via @Jordanfabian in the pool.
Jennifer Epstein @jeneps
Joe Biden is attending mass on the first Sunday of his presidency at Holy Trinity Catholic Church in Georgetown, where he often went to mass during his eight years as vice president. Via @Jordanfabian in the pool.
jamny
Footballguy
Doesnt seem like a change of pace. Sounds like something he's done for a long time.
SHIZNITTTT
Footballguy
What is your point? Poor people should pay more? Rich people should pay less? The current system is correct?
dawgtrails
Footballguy
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
Bernie Sanders was on MSNBC saying "We will push Biden as far left as we can to promote a progressive agenda" I did not vote for Bernie..I voted for Biden. I don`t want Bernies agenda..that is why he lost.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Sure. But Bernie and progressives voted for them to push as Bernie will. Doesn’t mean it will happen.
Right. IMO, this is where the moderate right has to seize the opportunity....either be an opposing force and push biden to reach out to the far left or cooperate in some level to maintain moderacy.
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
Maybe, but it seems like I'm reading about a lot of various groups being surprised/upset about some of his early moves.
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